Topic: a sudden insight, perhaps

Posting just today, I made two different ones, and putting them together, this compartmentalizing of information seems to come together in some form of new theory that jumped out at me.  Tell me what you think.

Post 1:

Hello.  I'm new to this place, and this topic piqued my curiosity, since I have some experiences with it.

My sleep paralysis began when I was around 20 or so, and was triggered by smoking marijuana, more than likely laced with something else.  Occasionally, I used to smoke pot to get out of a rut or something; always for that purpose, never recreational.  Anyway, my brothers and I all had a bad trip that night because of that certain batch of the stuff.  One became really sad, the other really frightened.  My own experience was scary for me.  I felt that my hand wanted to hit someone.  Scared the crap out of me.  I remember trying to run off (we were in the desert at the time), thinking, "It's going to happen, it's finally going to happen."  God knows what that meant.  I don't.

For some time after that, actually, maybe a month or so, I would get that impulse of violence, I suppose you'd call it, whenever I was near someone.  The sleep paralysis also started to occur.  I'd wake up, paralyzed, with the feeling that something was coming down the hall.  I remember thinking all of this was some evil, demonic thing.  I remember  silently begging to be taken to a church, calling out to God.  Or, at least, trying.  During the paralysis, I couldn't say a thing.

It all culminated one night, when I finally faced it and thought, "I accept it.  I'll just let this evil pass through me.  It is a part of me, and I won't fight it."  If that was the right thing to do, I don't know, but it made it stop.  At least, from being so overwhelming.  It stopped for quite awhile, at least.  I thought, in the end, that this was all it was, this bad side in me.

To this day, however, I have anxiety, in small doses.  If I was any more unaware, they would probably turn into panic attacks.  It's been a constant battle, a tiring battle, to slowly learn not to worry, that I am in control when it comes down to it.  Most of the attacks, you see, are really only this anxiety of an impulse, say, of throwing up, fainting, screaming out, whatever.  Just this impulse.  The fear of that, of losing control, which is probably what it is more than anything else, makes it a whole lot worse.  As it is, I don't like the anxiety, but at the same time, I appreciate it because it means I'm tapping into some depth.  I don't know.

These days, I can tell when I'm going to have sleep paralysis.  It's this faint feeling of dread.  It's like knowing that I'm not going to totally fall asleep, and be trapped in this nether-world between sleeping and waking.  I avoid it at all costs, waking myself up every ten minutes or so just so I don't totally fall asleep and wake up paralyzed.  It also means bad dreams.  Recently, I went through a night of this, and just turned on the television.  Light helps, psychologically, I figure.  Sometimes I wait for the dawn, knowing that the light will stop it.

Also, before I forget, I remember one time, being in that semi-awake stage, of hearing something using my restroom, taking a leak.  I thought, "how vulgar."  That particular night was one of those "attack nights".  I had also felt being lifted off my bed, about a foot or so, and looked up, seeing this dark haired girl above me.  I don't think that she's a bad spirit.  I've seen the girl before, to my reckoning, before my daughter was born.  I think perhaps she's a guardian or something.  But what do I know?

These days, I have more bad dreams than ever.  In fact, I don't ever remember having a bad dream when I was younger.  Accompanying this, however, in any dream, is the knowledge that I can fly.  It doesn't matter the dream, I just know I can fly.  It can be a normal dream, until I remember that I can fly.  It's just a given in my dream state.  "Oh, yeah, I can fly," and I fly.  It's not those stumbling around flying dreams, it's pure control.  So, I'm happy about that.

So, what else can I remember?  Street lamps go off when I come near, too, on occasion.  I figured it was just something normal that lights do, but it is odd that it happens as soon as I'm coming near.  Of course, that could just be filtering on my part.  I also remember being half-asleep one day, in that region of uncomfortable half state, and seeing my brothers come into the room.  One, this pot-head, wild, long-haired guy, came into the room sporting antlers!  I figure it's a part of his nature, this animal spirit thingy.  Also, this one time, my friend and I were walking (I used to go for walks ALL the time), at night, when we both heard, in our right ear, this "beam".  You could feel the depression of it in the ear, this quick, solid "beeep".

Well, that's about all I can remember.  There's a whole lot o' things that I've experienced, nothing too out there.  Just wanted to pipe in with this sleep paralysis thing.


Post 2:

Personally, I think 23 has something to do with the aliens.  This comes through in a variety of ways.  One auther, Robert Anton Wilson, seems to regard 23 as something to do with Sirius.  July 23 was the beginning of the new year for the Egyptians, who worshipped Isis and Osiris, and the dog star was the symbol for those two gods.  The dark star, Sirius B, represents Osiris, and occultist say that the rite for Osiris includes the secret that Osiris is a dark god, or a black god.  I forget which.  It's called the dark rite, I think.  The tarot of the star has an ancient symbol of Isis, with the star above the archetypical depiction of this feminine principle.  Wilson is big-time into synchronicity, and noticed the 23 and other Egyptian related happenings during his hypothesis that he was getting communications from Sirius.

From my own experience, 23 seems to crop up in relation to aliens, particularly the greys.  It's like an unconscious thing, mostly picked up by creative peoples.  Though hardly an authority, South Park in particular picks up this alien thingy.  In one episode, when the big antenna was coming out of Cartman's ass.  Anyway, the hangar where they finally uncovered the antenna was hangar 23.  Also, the scientist came to his conclusions through a series of connections.  Silly connections, of course, and maybe a joke on synchronicity or something, but it shows this connection with these little events meaning something.  There are some other things in other areas, but I can't remember any of them, which might mean there isn't much to this theory.

Also, when I was younger, I was into the swords and sorcery fantasy sort of things, and made up stories all the time.  Well, this one being I had made up in my stories as this god-like creature, strictly neutral in the affairs of good and evil, that I imagined my hero had some struggles against.  Before I had learned of greys or knew anything about them, I had imagined this being as a tall version of a grey.  It had the same white-like skin and big black eyes, the difference being that my version had long black claws, tall black horns, and a pair of bat-like wings.  Now, remember, that this was before I knew about aliens, and I certainly don't remember basing it on any idea of an alien.  I can almost guarantee that.  If anything, it was subconscious.  Anyway, the funny thing is, and this didn't strike me until later, way later, that the being's name, for reasons unknown, was Winchestor.  I didn't make the connection until recently, that W is the 23rd letter of the alphabet.  Now, that may not be enough, but placing it all together, and going through my own 23 synchronicities (before I knew of synchronicities and number connections, I had been seing 311 a lot.  That was why I started looking into numbers popping up in the first place and found out about the 23.), I'm pretty sure that if there is something to coincidences, this all fits together.

"T e l o c h   Of one so-called: T E L O CH = 203    Allocating Tzaddi (final) to T = 1013 or 10 + 13 = 23

32 is the number of total manifestion.  It is Ichid - ego/self - the prism through which is projected phenomenal manifestation on the obverse of the Tree.  32 is of the Tree of Life (obverse / manifestation / being / phenomena).  23 is the reverse of 32.  Hence, 23 is the number emblematic of the other or reverse side of the Tree.  23 is the essence of the Tree of Death (reverse / non-manifestaion / non-being / noumena).  23 'manifests' by dividing itself (into being): 2  · 3 = .666 (the Beast).  As 666 is to 32, so 23 is to the reverse of 666 that is 999. – The Beast 'made flesh' is a reflection or ingress of 23 / 999 (noumena) into phenomena as 32 / 666.

On another level, 23 signals the chaotic state between two stable states.  As such, it fits into the category of 'inbetweenness'.  It is therefore one of those things which is Not.  23 is one from the demonic hosts of Non-being about to invade Being.  The 93 Current will split apart the unconsciously created world we inhabit.  23 is not identical with 93, but an emanation from it.  203, as the extension of 23, reveals its full nature.  0 as the dis-illusion within 203 is the ingress from, and the gateway to, the Nightside.  There will be more on these matters, and its implications."

What I think is that this whole alien thing is something sinister, or against what we have the potential for.


That's it.

Now, what I saw in these two posts is some sort of theme.  It all came to me when I posted this part, something I hadn't seen before today, and just did as something to add some possible meaning to the relation of 23 to the alien phenomenon:

32 is the number of total manifestion.  It is Ichid - ego/self - the prism through which is projected phenomenal manifestation on the obverse of the Tree.  32 is of the Tree of Life (obverse / manifestation / being / phenomena).  23 is the reverse of 32.  Hence, 23 is the number emblematic of the other or reverse side of the Tree.  23 is the essence of the Tree of Death (reverse / non-manifestaion / non-being / noumena).  23 'manifests' by dividing itself (into being): 2  · 3 = .666 (the Beast).  As 666 is to 32, so 23 is to the reverse of 666 that is 999. – The Beast 'made flesh' is a reflection or ingress of 23 / 999 (noumena) into phenomena as 32 / 666.

On another level, 23 signals the chaotic state between two stable states.  As such, it fits into the category of 'inbetweenness'.  It is therefore one of those things which is Not.  23 is one from the demonic hosts of Non-being about to invade Being.  The 93 Current will split apart the unconsciously created world we inhabit.  23 is not identical with 93, but an emanation from it.  203, as the extension of 23, reveals its full nature.  0 as the dis-illusion within 203 is the ingress from, and the gateway to, the Nightside.  There will be more on these matters, and its implications."

It talks about the beast the beast and the manifestation of the beast.  Also, with my sleep paralysis and 23 signifying the category of "inbetweenness", and that abduction occurs and is carried out in this inbetween state.  Now, if what I have come to assume, that 23 relates to this grey alien in some way (and I've certainly heard that some people believe that these greys are demonic entities), then the thing about "23 is one from the demonic hosts of Non-being about to invade Being" certainly takes on a new light.  From these beliefs that these demonic fallen beings, posing as greys to slip in as saviors as soon as armeggeddon is commenced and they are thrown out of their place in the skies, I could assume that this 23 is a warning of some sort, or some unavoidable by-product, like 2+2 being the sign that 4 is coming.  Also of interest is the part "0 as the dis-illusion within 203 is the ingress from, and the gateway to, the Nightside."

I don't know.  It certainly caught my attention, and comes together in a strange sort of way.  It will certainly stay in my mind for awhile.

* When we start identifying wisdom with our ability to comprehend its form, what wisdom is that?
* Judge not, that ye be not judged. For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.
* People want platitudes, not progress.

2 (edited by Haven 2004-11-25 23:33:30)

Re: a sudden insight, perhaps

Just a little clearing up on this subject.  My theory was that they are going to physically manifest themselves, or at least give some illusion of being physically real and here, in 3D, I guess.  Them being cast out of the heavens, as per Revelation in the Bible, would strip them of their higher state.  The theory is that when they are kicked out of heaven, they're going to be sent to earth, so they're already planning their positive reception, as saviors of humankind from self-annihilation.  Of course, annihilation orchestrated, somehow, by them. 

I didn't realize that montalk.net already states these beings as interdimensional, and thought I would clarify, since it looked like to me that I was just going over old ground.

* When we start identifying wisdom with our ability to comprehend its form, what wisdom is that?
* Judge not, that ye be not judged. For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.
* People want platitudes, not progress.

3 (edited by Haven 2004-11-26 00:15:55)

Re: a sudden insight, perhaps

From: Noble Realms / Current events / Boriska-boy from Mars

"GREY TYPE E: Human/Grey Hybrids
One of the main ET projects, now in the completion stage, is the hybrid program. The goal of this project is to produce a being combining the best physical and mental qualities of both races. The following description is of a hybrid female, approximately fifteen years old. Height is five feet, three inches; skin color is pale white/grey. The head is slightly larger and rounder than normal. Hair is dark, high above the forehead, and worn in a very long ponytail. The face is very fine-featured, and attractive. Like all the beings discussed in this paper, her main method of communication is telepathic. This has allowed a deeper understanding of her intellectual and emotional make-up. They consider themselves human, not Grey, in almost all respects. They care about the Greys, as any child would a parent, but find them agonizingly boring. The desire for human contact is greater than all others. Their capacity for emotion is as great, if not greater than, humans. Any physical attribute more human than Grey is a great source of pride. Their intellectual capacity is well above human standards. It is very likely they will exceed the capabilities of both races."

"I sat up in my bed and noticed a small three-foot tall child. She looked like a hybrid. She had white wire-like hair that was soft looking and was either slightly bald in the front, or she had a high forehead. Her chin was narrow and her mouth turned downward, and her eyes looked at me so innocently, just like the eyes of a child. Her body was frail and thin. She had fair skin and was wearing a white cotton-like dress with white slipper-like shoes.

She stood in the doorway of my room while I sat up in my bed. I felt that she was young in appearance, but her intelligence surpassed my own adult intelligence. She really looked like a three year old, but she definitely had the intelligence of an adult. I felt extreme respect for her, but I also felt a nurturing feeling toward her, as I normally do for children.

She spoke to me with clarity and with an intelligent vocabulary, unlike a child. She had a high-pitched monotone voice and spoke quickly. She said, 'Our fifth dimensional world is going to merge and co-exist with your fourth dimensional world.'

(Our four dimensions consist of length, breadth, width, and time.)

The hybrid not only communicated with me with words, but she gave me visions along with her words so that I would understand what is going to occur.

Images of ghosts and spirits then came to my mind. They were dwelling visibly on the Earth, but these were very kind and good spirits. I was shown that negative entities (physical and non-physical) would not be able to live on the Earth once the two dimensions merged. This meant that people would change to a more loving and non-violent race.

I asked about natural disasters and if they would still exist and the hybrid said there would still be natural disasters. An image of a father and his son came to my mind. They were walking and an earthquake occurred. Neither the father nor the son were afraid. They accepted the earthquake, as if they knew they would always be safe. They were still happy even though the earthquake occurred.

The hybrid also told me, 'The work is almost done.' The new race, that is, the hybrid race, came into my mind. The hybrid Being then said, 'The hybrid children are all part of the merging process.' "


"The visitors are not here to take your reproductive abilities away from you. They are here to establish themselves. They want humanity to believe in them and to serve them. They want humanity to work for them. They will promise anything, offer anything and do anything to achieve this goal. Yet though their persuasion is great, their numbers are small. But their influence is growing and their program of interbreeding, which has been underway for several generations, will eventually be effective. There will be human beings of greater intelligence but who do not represent the human family.

[...]Through interbreeding, they are seeking to establish a human being who will be part of their association yet who can survive within your world and who can have a natural affinity with the world. Your visitors cannot live on the surface of your world. They must either seek shelter underground, which they are doing, or they must live aboard their own craft, which they often keep hidden in large bodies of water. They want to interbreed with humanity to protect their interests here, which are primarily the resources of your world. They want to have human allegiance assured, and so for several generations they have been involved in an interbreeding program, which within the last twenty years has become quite extensive.

[...]Today there are many people who are being taken against their will repeatedly. Because humanity is very superstitious and seeks to deny things it cannot understand, this unfortunate activity is being carried on with considerable success. Even now, there are hybrid individuals, part-human, part-alien, walking in your world. There are not many of them [this was published in 2001 - Tom] , but their numbers will grow in the future. Perhaps you will meet one some day. They will look the same as you but be different. You will think they are human beings, but something essential will seem to be missing in them, something that is valued within your world. It is possible to be able to discern and to identify these individuals, but in order to do so, you would have to become skilled in the Mental Environment and learn what Knowledge and  Wisdom mean in the Greater Community"


My guess, if my 23 theory of imminent invasion is any way correct, is that these "aliens" are interbreeding with humans so that they can inhabit these bodies, to avoid their own annihiliation when these realities finally come together, creating a "new heaven and earth".  As for interbreeding with a spiritual being, I have no clue.  I guess that's a hole in this theory.

What caught my attention was, if bad spirits were not going to be able to make the move, of course these aliens would need a human body.  This makes me think that the aliens are bad spirits and seeking a way to avoid this destruction.  But, then again, it also says that physical bad beings weren't going to be able to make the move.  Yet again, however, to throw more Bible stuff in this (don't know why), it's my understanding that when heaven does come to earth, Zion will be the heaven on earth, and the rest will still be pretty much normal.  I guess I got that from: Revelation 21:27, regarding New Jerusalem,  "And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life."  I mean, why put that unless there were still these things outside of the city.  (Looking at this, it makes me think that New Jerusalem is more a capital of the world, the heaven, not the whole earth being heaven, perhaps.)

Oh, here it is: Revelation

22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

22:15 For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.


I guess maybe I put too much stock in the Bible in this theory, but I do pay enough attention to it to think that Revelation is true to some point.

* When we start identifying wisdom with our ability to comprehend its form, what wisdom is that?
* Judge not, that ye be not judged. For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.
* People want platitudes, not progress.

Re: a sudden insight, perhaps

i will also vouch for the theory of the Greys conducting this hybrid program in order to preserve at least some of their culture/DNA/race inside of humans as they are dying as a race now.

i dont really think that they plan to "embody" these hybrids like you seemed to have stated; rather i think they realize they genetically enhanced/cloned themselves into a corner-- and they simply want to preserve some of their race here on earth.

that kind of goes with what ur saying about revalation etc.. that certain "beings" wont be able to come thru... i dunno.

if anything, i think we could use some telepathic characteristics from these aliens, even the Greys.

haven, thanks for sharing these personal experiences with us, i know its not an easy thing to do, and i hope your bad dreams and paralysis can minimize/dissolve.

have u tried meditation?

"...i was taken by the hand, from the ocean to the sand..."
nitin sawhney - 'eastern eyes'

Re: a sudden insight, perhaps

The way you put it, "bad dreams and paralysis" makes it seem so minimal.  This isn't an angry post.  I just want anyone reading this to know that it's not so glib as that.  It's my own personal road, and I'd gladly relate to those who listen, and this group on here seems an open bunch.  I think these bad dreams and paralysis come from deep, subconscious part, surfacing for intergration.  I do believe, however, that there are real entities and peeks into this other world, whatever it may be.  I've never meditated, and don't plan to.  My goal has always been a stubborn, everyday consciousness approach to this.  I believe that the only solution is when I become childlike and carefree, and get rid of all these fears and doubts.  Funny story, one time I actively visualized listening to the depths of myself, I thought I could hear a stream of negative comments skimming across a barren surface.  If true, I think this is what's planted into us during our life.  While watching "Spirited Away", this old spirit that runs the place took away the main character's name, and gives her the name "Sin".  I don't know if it actually meant "sin", of if that was the intention, but it made me think that, yes, that's what a lot of people do.  They take away your identity and make you feel like you need to earn their approval.

* When we start identifying wisdom with our ability to comprehend its form, what wisdom is that?
* Judge not, that ye be not judged. For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.
* People want platitudes, not progress.

Re: a sudden insight, perhaps

i just want to say i didnt mean to make your troubles seem minimal, i really didnt mean for it to sound like that. rather, i was just wishing you the best in dealing with it.

and yes, there is always negative/positive facets of our minds/souls/ego that surface; and i most definetely agree with you in that the goal is to integrate.

"...i was taken by the hand, from the ocean to the sand..."
nitin sawhney - 'eastern eyes'

7 (edited by Haven 2004-11-27 02:22:29)

Re: a sudden insight, perhaps

Some interesting information:

"Crowley was aware of the possibility of opening the spatial gateways and of admitting an extraterrestrial Current, into the human life wave...

It is an occult tradition- and Lovecraft gave it persistent utterance in his writings- that some trans-finite and superhuman power is marshalling its forces with intent to invade and take possession of this planet... This is reminiscent of Charles Fort's dark hints about a secret society on earth already in contact with cosmic being and perhaps perparing the way for their advent."

-Aleister Crowley and the Hidden God

"Crowley dispels the aura of evil with which these authors (lovecraft and Fort) invest the face; he prefers to interpret it Thelemically, not as an attack upon human consciousness by an extra-terrestrial and alien entity but as an expansion of consciousness from within, to embrace other stars and to absorb their energies into a system that is thereby enriched and rendered truly cosmic by the process."

-Aleister Crowley and the Hidden God

Their is definately a "message" of some sorts being communicated by us, through outside or inside sources, that seems to want to tell us about these evil beings.  I so want to believe the second one, because I'm an optimist, but I just don't know.

Further expounding on Crowley and his involvement with this otherworldly beings, though, includes Dr. John Dee's communication with "Enochian Angels":

"What the Enochan angels conveyed to Dee through Kelly [Edward Kelley, who worked for Dee] was not merely a more potent form of spirit magic to rule the tutelary daemons of the nations of the earth.  It was an initiatory formula designed to open the locked gates of the four great Watchtowers that stand guard against chaos at the extremities of our universe..."

"The Enochian Calls, or Keys (the angels refer to them by both titles) are 48 spirit evocatonis delivered to Dee and Kelley in the Enochian language and then translated into English word for word by the angels.  The overt purpose of the Keys, declared by the angels, is to enable Dee to establish ritual communication with the spirits of the 30 Aethers or Airs who rule over the tutelary daemons of the nations of the earth.  There are actually 49 Keys, but the first, the angels inform Dee, is too sacred and mysterious to be voiced.  The first eighteen explicit Keys are completely different in their wording; the last 30 are similar save for the name of the Aether inserted in the first line..."

"Dee's blindness to the true function of the Keys is curious, because clues about their nature are everywhere for those with eyes to see them.  The Enochian communications recorded by Dee are filled with apocalypric pronouncements and imagery.  Again and again the angels warn of the coming destruction of the world by the wrath of God and the advent of the Antichrist.  This apocalyptic imagery is also found throughout the Keys themselves..."

"The very name of these evocations should have been clue enough.  Surely if the Watchtowers stand guard at the four corners of our dimension of reality, keeping back the hordes of Choronzon [Satan's true name acording to the Enochian angels] from descending like 'stooping dragons,' [lizards?] as the Eighth Key puts it, and if the evocations known as the Keys are designed to open the gates of these Watchtowers, we might be led to suspect that it would be a bad idea to unlock these gates..."

"What [Dee] failed to understand is that the date of the initiation of the period of change known  as the Apocalypse is (in the intention of the angels) the same daye as the successful completion of the full ritual working of the eighteen distinct manifest Keys and the Key of the Thirty Aethers upon the Great Table of the Watchtowers, and that this date is not predetermined, but will be determined by the free will and actions of a single human being who is in the Revelation of St. John call the Antichrist..."

"It has always been generally assumed that the Apocalypse is in the hands of the angels of wrath, to be vistited upon the world at the pleasure of God, at a moment foredestined from the beginning of creation.  In the veiled teachings of the Enochian angels this is not true.  The gates of the Watchtowers can only be unlocked from the inside..."

"The angels of wrath cannot itiate the Apocalypse even if they wish today to do so..."

"Sprititual beings must be evoked into our reality by human beings.  We must open the gates and admit the servants of Choronzon ourselves.  Evocation and invocation are not a part of the business of angels, but of humans.  That is why it was necessary for the Enochian angels to go through the elaborate ruse of conveying the system of Enochian magic, with the Keys and the Great Table of the Watchtowers, to Dee.  If the Apocalypse is to take place, and if it is necessary for human beings to open the gates of the Watchtowers before it can take place, the angels first had to instruct a man in the correct method for opening the gates..."

"Despite these hints and many others, the angels never actually came out and told Dee that he was to be the instument whereby the ritual formula that would initiate the Apocalypse would be planted in the midst ofhumanity, where it would sit like a ticking occult time bomb, waiting for some clever magician, perhaps guided by the angels, to work it..."

"[Crowley] firmly belived that he was the herald for a new age of strife and destruction that would sweep across the world.  He called this age th Aeon of Horus, after the Egyptian god of war.  In 1904 in Cairo [interestingly translated as "Mars", the planet, by some people], Egypt he reveived in the form of a psychic dictation from his guardian agnel, Aiwass, the bible of this apocalyptic period, "Liber Al vel Legis (The Book Of the Law)".  It sets forth some of the conditions that will prevail in the Aeon of Horus.  It it is Crowley's famous dictum: 'Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law.'

"It is highly siginifact that Crowley never considered himself to be the Antichrist.  He is not the central character in the drama of the Apocalypse, but the herald who ushers in the age of chaos..."

"Crowley studid and practived Enochian magic more often and deeply than any other magician of teh Golden Dawn; indeed, more deeply than any other human being who has ever lived.  About the angelic communciatons of Dee and Kelley he writes: 'Much of their work still defies explanation, though I and Frater Semper Paratus, an Adaptus Major of the Argentum Astrum [the "silver star", Sirius] have spent much time and research upon it and cleared up many obscure points..."

"The record of his working of the Enochian Aethers in 1909 in the desert of North Africa is preserved in the document titled "The Vision and the Voice"..."

"We may not have long to wait before the individual known in the vision of St. John as the Antichrist, the one foretold in Crowley's "The Book Of the Law" to follow after the Beast, will succeed in completing the Apocalypse Working placed in the world as a flaming sword by the Enochian angels..."

-Essay, The Enochian Apocalypse, by Donald Tyson

I find it interesting to note that in Revelation, it says:

5:2 Then I saw a strong angel proclaiming with a loud voice, "Who is worthy to open the scroll and to loose its seals?"

5:3 And no one in heaven or on the earth or under the earth was able to open the scroll, or to look at it.

5:5 But one of the elders said to me, "Do not weep.  Behold, the Lion of the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, has prevailed to open the scroll and to loose its seven seals."

5:6 And I looked, and behold, in the midst of the throne of the four living creatures, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as though it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent out into all the earth.

Clearly, we are led to believe that Christ is the initiater of the Apocalypse, since he opens the scroll and the seven seals, and, interestingly, he qualifies as a man, or a human.  I don't know if it's supposed to Christ's daemon, or whatever.  I only have a smattering of knowledge that Christ somehow forms the antichrist, according to Jung's essay "Answer to Job".  Clearly, I don't know hardly enough about this subject.

And, also, where I get the idea of these spirits being cast out of the air, or a layer of heaven, or whatever you want to call it:

Revelation

12:9 So the great dragon was cast out, that serpent of old, called the Devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world; he was cast to the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

12:12 "Therefore rejoice, O heavens, and you who dwell in them!  Woe to the inhabitants of the earth and the sea!  For the devil has come down to you, having great wrath, because he knows that he has a short time."

This goes along with the idea that these spirits are going to be kicked out the fourth or fifth, or whatever, dimension, no longer spirits, but physical.

Now, as a disclaimer, I consider myself a Christian, but was once upon a time agnostic, totally tore down my ego and its illusions.  Went through the Dark Night of the Soul, as they call it.  I was left with absolutely nothing.  I couldn't believe in anything, and eventually I realized that there is nothing when you get down to it.  What I read later, was that this emptiness became essentially a womb for something to gestate in.  The only thing I couldn't doubt, essentially, was the fact of Self, of "I".  I learned to trust this "I" in me, and eventually had an experience, very real and personal, that this "I" was always this spark that each of us have, that comes from one Source.  I finally understood what all these Christians were talking about when they were referring to Christ, and I realized that it was always there, a constant companion, and wants nothing but the best for us, because God and this "I" in me, are basically the same.  This spark, that motivates my ego, that is at the core of me, that makes me conscious, is where this man-god resides, and if I had to give it a name, I would call it... "Life".

As to if I really, truly subcribe to any of this, I don't really know.  This is all just sort of fleshing out as you see it here.  I'd see hints of it in other places, but never took the time to put it together.

* When we start identifying wisdom with our ability to comprehend its form, what wisdom is that?
* Judge not, that ye be not judged. For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.
* People want platitudes, not progress.

8 (edited by lyra 2004-11-27 12:25:24)

Re: a sudden insight, perhaps

zonabi wrote:

i will also vouch for the theory of the Greys conducting this hybrid program in order to preserve at least some of their culture/DNA/race inside of humans as they are dying as a race now.

i dont really think that they plan to "embody" these hybrids like you seemed to have stated; rather i think they realize they genetically enhanced/cloned themselves into a corner-- and they simply want to preserve some of their race here on earth.

that kind of goes with what ur saying about revalation etc.. that certain "beings" wont be able to come thru... i dunno.

if anything, i think we could use some telepathic characteristics from these aliens, even the Greys.

haven, thanks for sharing these personal experiences with us, i know its not an easy thing to do, and i hope your bad dreams and paralysis can minimize/dissolve.

have u tried meditation?


Zonabi....I really think you might want to pick up a copy of the book "The Allies of Humanity - An Urgent Message About the Extraterrestrial Presense in the World Today", by Marshal Van Summers to gain a little bit more accurate perspective about the Grays you're always talking about in such a neutral and/or positive light.  Not to be rude, but you're always propagating the same story about the Grays needing to "save their race" and help their DNA.   Over on Joseph's "Abductions" thread I tried to gently nudge people into possibly looking at the Grays in a more realistic light, instead of the propaganda we've been fed about them being our space brothers, needing our DNA, and abductions being positive.   Well, gentle nudging didn't work.   So now, I'm going to strongly recommend the above book, and leave off by saying that my opinion -  my personal perspective - based on more well rounded research and evidence -   What you're propagating about the Grays is bunk.  That whole "cloning themselves into a corner" explanation -- bunk.  It's disinformation bunk which the Powers That Be have put  out there and which you and many others have latched onto and are spreading.    Please wake up everybody.  It's bunk!    Please read and research evidence which is not "Zeta Talk" and which isn't something that TPTB have put out there in the mainstream.   **Question Anything In the Mainstream.**  Try to seek out sources which are squelched, suppressed and which have to resort to self publishing.  Often times, those are the sources that contain the truth.    We are being fed lies about these "space brother aliens" who "need our DNA".  The poor, poor grays.   They're just cute little ETs who need our help.

X!   That's not what's happening here at all people.  There's an entirely different explanation.  Please wake up!   

(stepping off my soapbox now....)

Oh wait....ps edit here......I just remembered that montalk uploaded a copy of "Allies of Humanity...." in the new Noble Realms file area.   !!  Woohoo!  So, you don't have to track it down, purchase it or spend money.  It's available for free, here at NR.    Please everybody, read this book.  Gain some new perspective on the Grays.  I think I'll even start a thread just for this subject to bring more focus onto it, because not everybody is going to read this thread.

"Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting "Holy shit ... what a ride!"  - Anonymous
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"I get by with a little help from my (higher density) friends."
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Re: a sudden insight, perhaps

i'd just like to say that i think the government, or illuminati, are playing both sides of this coin;
they try to make aliens seem cute n cuddly on one hand, and on the other they also try to make them seem hostile/invading.

"...i was taken by the hand, from the ocean to the sand..."
nitin sawhney - 'eastern eyes'

Re: a sudden insight, perhaps

zonabi wrote:

i'd just like to say that i think the government, or illuminati, are playing both sides of this coin;
they try to make aliens seem cute n cuddly on one hand, and on the other they also try to make them seem hostile/invading.


Now that's an interesting point indeed.........they do have a tendancy to do things like that.  Get our heads spinning so we can't tell up from down and truth from disinformation.    They mix it all up together so it becomes tangled and near impossible to untangle.

"Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting "Holy shit ... what a ride!"  - Anonymous
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"I get by with a little help from my (higher density) friends."
-----

11 (edited by Haven 2004-11-28 22:39:04)

Re: a sudden insight, perhaps

While thinking on whether these aliens are good or bad, I came up with a few thoughts. 

Crowley believes this other-worldly being (not necessarily referring to aliens) as an expansion of consciousness.  I figure he may be right.  The thing is, what consciousness is expanding?  Just because it's accessing and growing our minds doesn't mean much, and it very well could be that opening our minds isn't exactly what's best for us.

Let me explain.

I have come to the conclusion, a sort of hovering fog that refuses to take shape and coalesce into a solid belief, that God and Satan are archetypes, perhaps, for the heart and mind.  Going through my own Dark Night, I saw just how silly and worthless the mind is when it comes to any real knowledge.  I see people all the time trusting in their "facts" and "logic" without realizing that the mind can prove anything (which was frustrating and futile while going through my Dark Night; I couldn't believe in anything that could be thought out of.)

The Tree of Knowledge, this ancient story, reminds me that the mind can conjure up any illusion of right and wrong.  It wasn't that Adam and Eve were kicked out for not obeying God; they were kicked out so they couldn't eat from the Tree of Life.  Look at the Bible and tell me this isn't so.  Again, this theme comes up, in the desert with Moses in the form of Ten Commandments, another Tree of Knowledge.

It's a false road, meant to make you fall.  The problem is is that this seems like a valid path for many, figuring the Age of Reason is ushered in by the mind.  I don't see it that way.  I call it knowledge vs. wisdom.  We should all pursue wisdom, and treat knowledge like we can take it or leave it.  The only truth about knowledge is that it destroys itself in the end.  We can think this and think that, but it's all in one system.  If you really want to become enlightened, step outside the box.

These greys, I believe, have taken this road of knowledge.  I remember thinking about this Winchestor, this grey alien archetype that had somehow crept into my mind before I had any conscious knowledge of them, as being an antagonist because its severe neutrality cast a pall over a person dealing with it.  Maybe these greys are neither evil nor good, but trapped in a logic of the mind, creating nothing.  It certainly seems to be a current running through a lot of their communications, that through manipulating, scientifically, their DNA, they've come to a dead end.  Maybe the only evil thing about them is that they destroy themselves, and causing a spiritual death before a physical one.  Certainly the punishment that the New Testament authors want to ultimately avoid is oblivion, called the Second Death.

And, perhaps, maybe this other current in this other being, be it God or whatever, Christ, speaks about answering to the heart, not to the mind.

* When we start identifying wisdom with our ability to comprehend its form, what wisdom is that?
* Judge not, that ye be not judged. For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.
* People want platitudes, not progress.

12 (edited by Haven 2004-11-29 15:16:24)

Re: a sudden insight, perhaps

I find this interesting, as it details that perhaps this is all a lot more physical than is taught.

http://www.propheticrevelation.com/orig … seed_1.htm

Perhaps the story is more along the lines that these reptilians, even greys, are continually trying to get into mankind's bloodstream, for whatever purpose.  It makes me think that the whole reptilian rebellion was due in part because they didn't like being under man in any way.  Abduction and creating hybrids is a precursor to destruction, as it was before the flood, according to the Enoch story.

* When we start identifying wisdom with our ability to comprehend its form, what wisdom is that?
* Judge not, that ye be not judged. For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.
* People want platitudes, not progress.

Re: a sudden insight, perhaps

i agree with u, these Greys(Grays) took the path of knowledge, aka EXTERNAL TECHNOLOGY.

theyve also seeded our culture worldwide with premature technology that seems to be a derivative of their old tech.

"...i was taken by the hand, from the ocean to the sand..."
nitin sawhney - 'eastern eyes'

Re: a sudden insight, perhaps

I found this interesting:

Me:

"Crowley believes this other-worldly being (not necessarily referring to aliens) as an expansion of consciousness.  I figure he may be right.  The thing is, what consciousness is expanding?  Just because it's accessing and growing our minds doesn't mean much, and it very well could be that opening our minds isn't exactly what's best for us."

BlackBox, Noble Realms / Physics and Alternative Science / The Mind - The "Reptillian / Avian" Mind:

"In casschat I noticed a few were worried about such ideas to enhance ones mind. This was due to their belief, that like Don Juan's teaching (Castaneda), our mind is the mind of our controllers. Reptillian.

Yet they also say our mind is half-Reptillian and the other half is Avian.

So by increasing and powering up the mind, perhaps the negative increases in their perspective. Yet I also believe, like everything that exists with balance, the positive increases equivalently."

Now I know all of this theorizing means almost nothing in the end, what with realizing that this is a filter for this particular reality tunnel.  I tend to think of such things, such as this whole thread, as brainstorming.

* When we start identifying wisdom with our ability to comprehend its form, what wisdom is that?
* Judge not, that ye be not judged. For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.
* People want platitudes, not progress.

15 (edited by lyra 2004-11-30 06:06:32)

Re: a sudden insight, perhaps

zonabi wrote:

i agree with u, these Greys(Grays) took the path of knowledge, aka EXTERNAL TECHNOLOGY.

theyve also seeded our culture worldwide with premature technology that seems to be a derivative of their old tech.


But how do you / we / any of us KNOW this?  As a fact?   How can you make such sure statements about who they are, what they're doing, where they're at, and what's going on?   This is what I'm having a problem with recently.  Any time I hear anybody spout such assured statements about the Grays / aliens / UFOs I'm like, okay, and, where did we get this information from?   The movies?  Books?  Because so and so person said so?   Because we've looked at the "evidence"....much of which is a mind trip in itself.....and then strained our 3rd density human brains to come up with a theory about what it all points to?  I mean hell, my cat strains her brain all day long trying to figure out the things that surround her with her 3rd density roomates and apartment, but she'll never ever fully know or understand what's going on.  To use an example that's a good analogy.   She sees me leave the apartment 5 days a week out of 7, and I'm gone for 9 hours, then I just suddenly appear again, back inside the apartment.  She'll never til the day she dies understand where I go and why I go there.  She couldn't comprehend it.  And she's right there next to me when I'm doing it.  But despite her close proximity and constant observation, she has no clue and never will.

The same goes for what we think we know about the Grays, Reps, UFOs, and all the rest.  We "know" what we know because we've been told what to believe by books and movies.  We've been fed The Script for 30 years.  They've told us what the deal is with the Grays......the same people who've fed us every other lie about reality, mind you.  And we're supposed to believe them???!    The same people who believe in and support and PARTAKE IN the media, we're supposed to believe them and take their word for it???   The same people behind this reality's entire set up as we know it....and we're supposed to believe them???   

I don't think so.  Time to scrap EVERYTHING we think we know and start again from scratch.  Back to square one.

Later on when I get home I want to post some more, even better, excerpts from Stuart Wilde's book over in the other thread about Grays.  He's got 2 more chapters devoted to the transdimensionals / grays / UFOs, besides the one I already excerpted from earlier.   These other chapters are REALLY good, really get you thinking, they really get into the meat of the issue about our programming and the misinformation floating around out there, and also how none of us, including him, will ever fully understand what's going on with these transdimensionals.  I think anybody following that thread (yeah, like all 4 of us!  haha)   with an interest in aliens will like it.   But it's good, if the 3 people following that thread can just hang in there and wait for me to get home tonight and post it.   big_smile

"Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting "Holy shit ... what a ride!"  - Anonymous
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"I get by with a little help from my (higher density) friends."
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