Pawned (Page 1 of 2)

This seems to be a neverending subject lately here at NR. 

One has to wonder about that.    About why so many thread topics start out about one thing, but soon disintegrate into "Jesus was real!"  "No he wasn't!"  "Yes he was!"   "No he wasn't!"  "You're a big dumb poopy head!"  "No he wasn't!...uh wait...."

And now we have a whole thread devoted solely to it.  Jesus was real!  No he wasn't!  Yes he was!  No he wasn't!

My input is this-

We just entered into the new moon period, starting late yesterday.  (Look up "Montalk Research:  Moon Cycles" for more info. for those who are unaware of the moon periods and how they're used for energy feeding purposes.)  And coincidentally, here's this thread, which will ultimately serve no purpose other than the inevitable fighting back and forth and pages of egos defending their sacred cows.   

Not once in the history of NR have I ever witnessed either a Pro-Jesus or Anti-Jesus person change their stance after engaging in one of these round and rounds.  Not one.  Nobody ever changes their mind, nobody ever backs down.  The anti-Jesusers are hoping to convert the fundies.  The fundies are hoping to save the non-believers and get everybody to see the ligtht.  Nobody ever backs down. 

You'd think people would have figured that out by this point.

Excellent observation, lyra.

I think Jesus did existed, but rather he had messages that were the important thing to focus - Not himself, people shouldn't worry about whether Jesus existed or not.

Jesus taught us to give love, but I think his messenger stat was messed up and people rather focused on his existence.

Aww, well that makes me feel bad.  I just wanted to point out the futility of the Jesus debates that have been waging off and on here at NR for months now, and a cautionary warning regarding the timing with the moon period.  But you don't have to be all "I won't do it again" though or anything.  !!

If Jack hates Joe and Joe hates Jack.  Jack and Joe are both the enemy of God.

Or maybe if one large group of people hate another large group of people, and that large group of people hate the first large group of people in return, both large groups of people are the enemy of God.

If atheists hate people of faith, and people of faith hate atheists, are they enemies of God?

What if I hate my left foot?

Having engaged in some of the to 'n' fro's  lyra mentions,  these are not just between 'fundies' and 'non- believers'.  I'm not a 'fundy' myself but whenever 'non- believers go on the 'anti' then their own mental processes are open to question in the same way they attempt to expose the 'fundies'.  I've found them to be lacking at least as much perspective as the fundies and are at least as sloppy in their own research and selection [and omission] of historical figures that support their own contentions.   All anyone in both positions can do is present what they find appealing and pare open the mind of the 'contender' for truth.  That doesn't necessarilly have to be an ego- fest.   As for me i try to hear the other guy and try to explore our differences and how we are coming to our conclusions.   Disagreement even on subjects like this don't have to be ego- fests but this is one that sometimes attracts a special brand of contempt from some people.  It's a very similar brand of contempt, and no less egotistical than the purveyors of religion have displayed in the past.  The key is to try to recognise our own egos and make honest inquiry with an open mind.  True, that's not always how we interact, know what you mean lyra, but it's always worth a try. 

While the question of Jesus' historical incarnation can't be absolutely resolved through external means we can only use what is communicable to each other in order to prize open the doors of the intellect and the heart.   We're all a little bit wrong and a little bit right the way i see it.   No- one's got an exclusive franchise on truth that's why i think open discussions on subjects like this are perfectly in order.   While they can never fully resolve anything for anyone this is the place to have them.   Given our history and the blight of fundamentalism of all persuations these questions are too important to ignore completely.   

I suppose at least the 'non- believers' acknowledge that bible stories are filled with 'allegory' even if they don't know most of the  true meanings.  Wherever i've pointed out some of the allegorical meanings in those polarised discussions they usually get ignored and glossed over by the 'anti' crew as if they're irrelevant to the question of origin.  To discover what some of these stories and quotes really mean is to realise some portion of the higher mind in which they originate.   It seems to me that in tearing down the walls of fundamentalist ignorance the anti- 'fundy' is dealing himself out of a healthy dose of truth and a means [just one] of access to their own higher mind.  Blind faith or blind denials based on misunderstanding serve no- one and merely provoke different brands of fundamentalism.  I'm not suggesting that the compromise is an acceptance of falsehood and truth but there is something of value to be found in it so long as the subject stays open for discussion.  By doing so, a lot more than whether or not Jesus was incarnate can be aired.       

For example, shining spiritual truths are barely disguised in the bible by minds obviously greater than the "morons and imbeciles" who Tony Bushby believes compiled the new testament in the 4th century.  In fact some 'believers' in Tony Bushby recently claimed on NR that after they'd done "years of extensive research on the internet" they concluded that Jesus was 'almost certainly not real'.   It just so happened that that post co-incided with "nexus magazine's" synopsis of Tony Bushby's work on debunking Jesus and the supposedly fraudulent origins of the new testament.  The NR poster had obviously confined their research to that article and had missed the much older references to new testament books and  their authors by earlier commentators.  While not in excess these exist and can be found on the internet by anyone with an hour to spare.   Rather than enumerate them i'd recommend that line of enquiry.  I didn't get into presenting the older references in that thread [having already approached the subject from other tangents in the "Debunking Jesus" thread] but i have had discussions with others on similar threads which haven't degenerated into egotism and where respect has been maintained.  We shouldn't be reluctant to add anything to this subject just because it is contentious.

Hi khalil,

You're the one who had your experience so you have to discern the origin of it.  [i make up profundities like that myself].   But i wonder if you're jumping to the wrong conclusion when you say it was a neg force.   By your reasoning  i don't reckon it necessarilly has to be negs.  You state many truths about the imperfect nature of the christian sect you belonged to and the fact that you, like others, sometimes come under extraordinary attack.  I have a few tales of my own.  But you might be drawing the wrong conclusion about the identity of the pre- cognitive voice that "filled you with all sorts of good feelings".

Millions of real people worldwide are associated with one group or another [religious or otherwise] which are imperfect.   Many of these groups have a part of the overall picture of reality but very, very few if any would be on the cutting edge of reality insofar as their belief systems would be error free.  And, even in groups where conceptions of reality are more perfectly described there is no guarantee of contact with spirit.  That kind of spiritual fortune is a much more personal thing and can find you inside or outside of any kinds of groups or none at all.  To participate in a group which has an exclusive franchise on all truth is not a pre- requisite for extra- ordinary communion with spirit.  Nor is belonging to any group at all.  Spirit is not subject to any such conditions.  All conditions,  including your association with this or that group, are instead subject to spirit. 

Do you really think your own spiritual- self or an 'angel' would be conditioned by such things [as your incidental association with the mormons] in order to reveal this experience to you?  ["don't talk to khalil he's a mormon.... until khalil wakes up on his own material steam we must never reveal to him the things of the spirit"].  If spirit was so conditioned, even fewer people on earth would ever have such experiences because everywhere the material matrix is so imperfect and everywhere souls are entrapped in it.   The spirit would be metaphorically standing back with arms folded, unable or unwilling to reveal it's supremacy over all imperfect conditions in order to reveal it's greatness to the soul. 

I feel that the being who interacted with you on that day could very well have been a true spiritual being, either your own higher- self or that of another and that you may be mis- interpreting your own experience.  You may also have since been targetted by the negs because of it.  That is because "one individual" as you say, [in the christ- consciousness] is a threat to them.  It is why Jesus was tried and crucified and why "the saints have been slain since the foundation of the world".   One person "one" with the higher- self is a threat because that person will transcend the 'matrix' and accelerate the demise of the false hierarchy.

Your own spiritual instincts got you out of an imperfect organised religion obviously because you are ready for higher things and that maybe in this life you have no further karma in your old associations?  You can work out the detail but maybe you became more sensitised by your overt spiritual experience that you eventually saw through the imperfect external matrix of the mormon religion?  It sure sounds to me like you might at least reconsider the origin that day of the "voice [that appeared] in the wilderness" of your human consciousness. 
                         
        "though i walk through the valley of the shadow of death [the material plane and it's low points]
          I will fear no evil. [inside the morman church or out]
          For thou art with me [in spirit]
          Thy rod and thy staff [the mother light raised up to some degree within me]
          they comfort me [with pre- cognitive truth. They fill me with "all sorts of good feelings"]

Khalil i once heard a story that reminds me a bit of yours.  It's about the pre- conceptions people have about God and the conditions which they imagine must be fulfilled before the Spirit would act in a certain way.

A poor woman had several children who she could hardly afford to feed and clothe.   Her husband had died the previous January and thanksgiving was the next day.   The husband had left her in such a state that there was nothing much to eat for herself or her children.  The family living next door were well off enough and the wife was a sensitive soul who was concerned for the welfare of others.  The time for thanksgiving came around and the charitable neighbor took the poor woman a turkey done to a tee with all the trappings and overjoyed the poor woman and her children.  "All my prayers are answered!" she exclaimed. "Thankyou so much!  thank God!" she cried in gratitude as it was all laid out before her.

Two busy bodies across the road [ maybe they belonged to the green political party  ] saw the charitable neighbor enter the poor woman's house with the turkey and all and they overheard the shouts for joy coming from inside.   Stony faced one said to the other "She credits God for that?"   "Fool"  said the other "any fool knows God is a vegetarian"