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Re: A couple of cool old ladies

morningsun76 wrote:

I think I was replying from a here-and-now physical reality viewpoint with respect to this discussion, whereas the intention of your post was to communicate a purely spiritual idea.  Sorry if I misunderstood what you were trying to say.  I've also learned the lesson that after years of repeating the same pointless dramas, one has the power to simply say no to them and step outside of that endless loop.

It's not a purely spiritual idea, per se, but merely a recognition that there is a higher reality beyond the one which we immediately perceive. We are, ultimately, spiritual beings, but what we do whilst here in physical reality is really very important to us in terms of growth and experience. So I always try and find a balance between both our physical and non-physical selves, but still recognize that our true nature is infinite and indestructible. I find that by doing that, I can always put things and events in physical reality into their greater perspective, no matter how difficult or terrible they may seem to be from down here.

morningsun76 wrote:

From that higher perspective, I think the point of existence is to try to elevate ourselves closer to the ultimate inifinite source.  So no, from that perspective there is really nothing to worry about.  At this point I guess it comes down to a question of how each of us finds a way to accomplish that task,  what each individual perceives their purpose on Earth to be. I feel that within the context of the 3D world, we do have a lot to lose if we make the wrong choices, and that might result in our remaining locked into this realm rather than moving higher.    But then again, maybe stepping outside completely really IS the answer, in which case the implication is that our day-to-day lives really have no greater purpose... I guess. I just have a hard time accepting that.. or maybe I'm overthinking the topic.  Perhaps we can't know.. though it's hard not to get drawn into this kind of question.   Anyway thanks for great posts and some very interesting discussion.

What you say about the point of our existence seems to be correct, at least from what I understand, but I would also add the idea that each fragment of original consciousness is also striving to "grow" itself into something completely unique and individual whilst still remaining an integral part of the greater whole. I sometimes ponder on the idea that Creation is really nothing more than "God's" (i.e. the one infinite source consciousness) way of reproducing itself in an infinite variety of unique expressions of itself. So, as far as that goes, there aren't really any right or wrong choices to make, because each choice simply leads to a different path of self expression. I think that this may well be "God's" greater purpose for each of us: an experiment of sorts to determine and appreciate its own tremendous powers of creativity. You are exactly as you should be. To me, that's really quite comforting.

Re: A couple of cool old ladies

[I had this reply half-done when I went away for a while. It looks like the discussion has moved on, but I've finished it up and posted it anyway. I'm off to bed now. Thank you for the good conversation!]

It is just as imbalanced to rely only on positivity (the way the old ladies in the original post seem to encourage) as is it to rely only on strength or only on knowledge. There is a middle ground between ignorance and obsession, and it is called awareness. Becoming aware of enemies, becoming strong, learning fighting tactics, and taking on soul weaponry does not necessarily mean that you are fearful. These things can be small parts of a much larger spiritual practice containing many counterbalancing measures.

thoth wrote:

The victim mentality in the first example comes from having a mindset that one can easily be made a victim of unless one becomes physically stronger. But, this is why it's called victim mentality: it's all in the mind, and is born from fear.

A victim mentality can be born from fear, (or indoctrination, or misplaced love, or any number of things) but I just don't see how sensible planning for possible attacks indicates an overriding mentality of any kind--be it victimhood or aggressiveness or neurosis. Becoming physically stronger, larger, and more weaponized is a valid evolutionary response to known predators. It is not the only response, nor is it always the best, (it couldn't save the dinosaurs!) but it shouldn't be completely disallowed just because it isn't pretty.

thoth wrote:

But, here's one thing to consider: does the world do anything to us that we haven't specifically requested to happen to us - in order to create a valuable learning experience - before we ever incarnated here? If the answer is "yes", then we can become victims. If "no", then it is no longer possible to be a victim at all.

I would tend towards "yes" in answer to that question. I feel the world is a mix of the chaotic and the pre-requested. Random instances of victimization not arising solely out of a prior request or a current attitude are possible.

thoth wrote:

You can't transcend a thing by requiring that it changes to better suit your own wants and ideals, you can only transcend it by changing yourself and your role within it.

I think what you've said here cuts right to the core of what we're talking about. I am not saying the whole universe should change to suit my wants and ideals. I am not saying the whole universe is evil. I am saying that the control system--which exists inside of the universe, currently contains me, and is possibly itself contained by other control systems--is not where I belong. If you are a being with a soul, it is not where you belong either. For a being with a soul, no permanent role within the control system is natural or necessary. Such a being is meant for a larger role within the universe, or perhaps a role within a higher system corresponding to its needs. (Which might appear as a control system to beings higher than itself!)

I am still in the process of discovering just what a true, divine "I" is. But the false "I", the one to struggle against, is a near-robotic creature, ignorant and hypnotized, immobilized by fear, trained by repetition, enslaved and alienated. Its wants and ideals are largely the product of the external control system. This control system is something which cannot be overcome by good feelings and sunshine alone! From my point of view it is sick and malicious, keeping my true "I" chained up in the basement of my body. Upstairs are portals to divine wisdom and love. To get to these portals, the control system must be overcome. So the control system must be studied and acted upon by all means. Influences which encourage me to do anything less are not friendly.

--Justin

Re: A couple of cool old ladies

Stephen, I want to thank you for reminding me of Delores Cannon.  I had read her books some 20 years ago and forgot what a pleasure they were as an addition to my exploration to know.  It is nice to hear she is still going strong.  I don’t for a minute think you went into some bliss bubble…you simply were in the presence of two cool old ladies who have a particular morphogenic field they are enjoying…and that was infectious.

And Thoth…your perspective is but one more reinforcement for the avenue I am now exploring. 

When I first read the cass it enabled me to face the hidden fears.  It was life transforming.  I put the pieces into the puzzle and they fit.  However, I did not want to continue to live in a stance against “them“? for the rest of this incarnation.  So, I did what I always do, ask, and the answer started formulating.  Experiences occurred, networking with kindreds took a new direction…and a new perspective ventured upon.

Everything I was researching had one common element, linear time.  Yet, linear time is the construct we use to experience this 3d.  I have had one experience, that I can remember, of  simultaneous time…it was a concrete experience.  From that perspective there was no linear construct and all events in this lifehood were as connected as millseconds apart even though spanning a 25 year “time frame“?.  When you understand that time is simultaneous you realize that there can be no wave “coming“? as it is happening in the now…as I said before on another thread…the cass did a wonderful job of putting in story form (linear construct) an event that is always happening in the now.  The information had to be put in a form that was most palatable to the masses.

Anyway, back to the cass…from reading that info started a connect the dots thing and viewing society within the framework described.  It did all pan out, and the references to reptile like demons in religious writings etc.  I had known about the reptiles from a long time but the cass info gave me the impetus to fully explore the dynamic.

There was a point however when learning the “this family, that dynasty“? etc seemed to be nothing more than the same fascination with soap operas…and the same story line.  Evil doers, back stabbing, intrigue, sex, illegitimate children etc.  I simply bored of the story…like, there is a mcs for sure, but do I really care about all the details. 

Anyway, hit an expanse a month or so ago…past lifehood, lifehoods, to soul life hood and the drawing back to the ocean.  Made a post here called A Good Day.  One of those paradigm shifts.  As soon as the shift new info started filtering in on how to experience from a more expanded perspective.  In reality this is all a projection on a screen, we are a pure consciousness being at source and create ourselves in different matrix for experience…because it looks interesting.  I have had concrete experience of going from pure aware will watching the formation of earth to slowing down the vibration to “come into“? earth…it was physical, I could feel it, the process of slowing down my vibration to experience 3d.  That happened about 11 years ago. 

So you look at what a morphogenic field is…and you understand that everything are light waves that only become particulates when you focus your attention on them.  It explains all the “how do we project this reality“?.  In Monroe’s first book he describes how he learned to travel through morphogenic fields eventually to the place of his soul birth.  There are so many fields in the infinite.  Some are just lovely some are just terrifying.  Still, they are but fields and we have the ability, the innate ability to be in whatever field we so choose.  Realizing that this particular field leaves the inhabitants subject to abduction, experimentation etc is a pretty strong impetus to re-member the tools to field hopping at will. 

I would say that for me the soap opera has lost it’s appeal.  It was fascinating to play the game…otherwise would not have done it.  The ole good against evil is so full of drama.  Whether one chooses to stay and play or move to another movie is neither a sign of soul growth or learned wisdom…just a creator being having fun. 

I am presently reading “the field“? by mac taggart…and it is lovely.  It only reminds me of what I already know…it is not an intellectual understanding, but something I know, have always known, my natural state of being.

I realize with all the agenda’s operative at this 3d level it might be in my best interest to do the things that promote ability to field hop.  Have field hopped before, it is not that difficult.  I just got distracted in the battle, and it was a good one lol…but think I need to get back to the things that give me a few more options than I have been playing with.  I know that I already know…it is just a process of deprogramming myself from what I decided to forget.

a rose…

It's all mind over matter. If you don't mind it doesn't matter...

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Re: A couple of cool old ladies

czyx wrote:

It is just as imbalanced to rely only on positivity (the way the old ladies in the original post seem to encourage) as is it to rely only on strength or only on knowledge. There is a middle ground between ignorance and obsession, and it is called awareness. Becoming aware of enemies, becoming strong, learning fighting tactics, and taking on soul weaponry does not necessarily mean that you are fearful. These things can be small parts of a much larger spiritual practice containing many counterbalancing measures.

How does that not make you fearful? Feeling a need to learn "fighting tactics", and taking on "soul weaponry" still demonstrates a strong urge to protect oneself from any external attacks which would be perceived as causing damage. I can completely understand where this urge comes from: it is a wholly reactive response to perceived external threats arising in the form of an impulse from very deep down within the human psyche (within the "animal self"); so deep down, in fact, that it may feel like an impulse from your higher being when it is, in fact, nothing more than a primitive physical survival urge. Your physical body is both limited and temporary, and is always going to be sending these survival impulses to you throughout the duration of your existence here; your non-physical self is unlimited and indestructible. In recognizing the difference lies the key to understanding from where within you such impulses arise.

czyx wrote:

A victim mentality can be born from fear, (or indoctrination, or misplaced love, or any number of things) but I just don't see how sensible planning for possible attacks indicates an overriding mentality of any kind--be it victimhood or aggressiveness or neurosis. Becoming physically stronger, larger, and more weaponized is a valid evolutionary response to known predators. It is not the only response, nor is it always the best, (it couldn't save the dinosaurs!) but it shouldn't be completely disallowed just because it isn't pretty.

As I said above, do what you want to do; there is no right and wrong about it. Just try and be aware of why you are doing what you are doing, and from where within you the impulse to take such action arises.

czyx wrote:

I would tend towards "yes" in answer to that question. I feel the world is a mix of the chaotic and the pre-requested. Random instances of victimization not arising solely out of a prior request or a current attitude are possible.

I would tend towards a firm "no". What appears to be random and chaotic at one level would seem quite structured and ordered from another. We are constantly receiving guidance from higher levels of our own being whilst here in order to create the most effective experiences possible (this does not imply that they will always be pleasurable); no one can do anything to us that we haven't specifically requested to occur, and all experiences carry an inherent value. If you always take responsibility for the reality that you created, and allow others to do the same, then victimization is no longer an issue.

czyx wrote:

I think what you've said here cuts right to the core of what we're talking about. I am not saying the whole universe should change to suit my wants and ideals. I am not saying the whole universe is evil. I am saying that the control system--which exists inside of the universe, currently contains me, and is possibly itself contained by other control systems--is not where I belong. If you are a being with a soul, it is not where you belong either. For a being with a soul, no permanent role within the control system is natural or necessary. Such a being is meant for a larger role within the universe, or perhaps a role within a higher system corresponding to its needs. (Which might appear as a control system to beings higher than itself!)

If you didn't belong here, you wouldn't be here. It is, of course, not from where you originated, but no one other than yourself chose to come here. Rest assured that there is a very good reason why you did :-)

czyx wrote:

I am still in the process of discovering just what a true, divine "I" is. But the false "I", the one to struggle against, is a near-robotic creature, ignorant and hypnotized, immobilized by fear, trained by repetition, enslaved and alienated. Its wants and ideals are largely the product of the external control system. This control system is something which cannot be overcome by good feelings and sunshine alone! From my point of view it is sick and malicious, keeping my true "I" chained up in the basement of my body. Upstairs are portals to divine wisdom and love. To get to these portals, the control system must be overcome. So the control system must be studied and acted upon by all means. Influences which encourage me to do anything less are not friendly.

What you call the false "I" also has some amazingly useful qualities, the most desirable of which is its ability for logical analysis and critique. Again, it is about finding a balance between two extremes, and not about simply moving from one extreme all the way over to the other. One of the major reasons why earth reality is so attractive is because of this inherent ability to build a left brain mentality which is the perfect balance to the dreamy and sometimes irrational modality of the right brain (which is a reflection of our original, divine self).

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Re: A couple of cool old ladies

palulukon wrote:

And Thoth…your perspective is but one more reinforcement for the avenue I am now exploring.

Thanks, Palulukon. I read your other posting ("A good day"), and I would say that you do indeed seem like an "old soul". Good to have you here.

Re: A couple of cool old ladies

Thoth (or anyone else who perceives a deficiency in my viewpoint on the matter): can you recommend any books which you feel would be particularly helpful to someone of my orientation with regard to negative beings/systems? Namely, a person who thinks it is OK to recognize and fight them if need be? I am a rather stubborn person, and I do not find that my perspective has shifted much in this conversation. However, I am proud of the fact that in the past I have made adjustments and accepted truth that I at first rejected. In re-reading the thread, I see the names Dolores Cannon, Martha Moore-Stevens, Don Miguel Ruiz, Mick Taggart, and Monroe (Robert Monroe, I assume) have been mentioned. Where would you recommend I start? Thanks in advance!

--Justin

37 (edited by thoth 2004-09-19 15:11:13)

Re: A couple of cool old ladies

czyx wrote:

Thoth (or anyone else who perceives a deficiency in my viewpoint on the matter): can you recommend any books which you feel would be particularly helpful to someone of my orientation with regard to negative beings/systems? Namely, a person who thinks it is OK to recognize and fight them if need be? I am a rather stubborn person, and I do not find that my perspective has shifted much in this conversation. However, I am proud of the fact that in the past I have made adjustments and accepted truth that I at first rejected. In re-reading the thread, I see the names Dolores Cannon, Martha Moore-Stevens, Don Miguel Ruiz, Mick Taggart, and Monroe (Robert Monroe, I assume) have been mentioned. Where would you recommend I start? Thanks in advance!

Of the ones you list, I would say that Bob Monroe's second and third books (Far Journeys and Ultimate Journey) could very probably give you a different perspective on many things, including your own true nature. The Monroe Institute also produces a set of audio tapes (Hemi-Sync) that can help you tune your awareness into the various higher levels of reality. David Icke's books are also great, although he seems to spend more time examining the machinations of the MCS than he does putting things into a higher perspective. But still, very valuable all the same. However, I would only recommend investing any of your time in reading these if you yourself perceive a "deficiency" in your viewpoint that you would like to examine. It doesn't really matter what I think. If you are comfortable with your viewpoint the way it is right now, then leave it be :-)