A couple of cool old ladies (Page 1 of 3)

Hi Steven M,

Hmm, very interesting experience.   I want to post something but without bursting any bubbles or ruining the good mood you managed to obtain.  It's hard enough to get in a truly good, positive mood in this world nowadays, let alone maintain it for any length of time.     But at the same time, I feel the need to comment, because as I was reading what these ladies had to say about negative ET's and negative entities, I found my eyebrows furrowing.   So hopefully, my comments can kick start a conversation among NR members about this whole deal, rather than burst anybody's bubbles.

Alright, so, if I'm understanding them correctly, these women are either saying that the negs don't exist, and/or, by not acknowledging them they will simply cease to exist in one's reality.   From what I've seen, experienced and learned, that's simply not true.   I understand that these two women exuded and radiated a feeling of goodness, and because of that, someone would want to latch on their message in order to caputure that feeling of positive good as well.   But their message is disinfo in my opinion and experience, and it's that feeling of good that helps reinforce their disinformation message.   

It boils down to this:   "Knowledge Protects. Ignorance Endangers."  (a C's concept)   
Ostriches bury their heads in the sand, but, it doesn't mean the outside world doesn't still exist.    Again, I'm not trying to be mean, it's just that I have seen a different experience than what these women outline.  Denying the existance of the neg ET's and entities is not only disinformation (despite how good it may feel, it's still disinfo.)  but it's also dangerous, and definitely won't protect anybody from the negs, whether they are ET's or 4D STS entities.   "Knowledge protects, ignorance endangers."    You gain knowledge of the negs existance and you face them head on with tactics that you have learned ward them off.   (lack of fear / anger / hate, calling on higher protection, recognizing the signs of them tampering with your reality and then not falling for the manipulation, etc.)     That helps get them out of your reality, not denial.   STS exists, we all know that.   Look around us in the world.....there's negative everywhere.    A person can't say that because they refuse to acknowledge that the bad exists out there in the world then therefore it will simply disappear it from their reality.   It won't work in our 3D world, and it doesn't work when facing 4D negs either. 

Now.....what is true is that our frequencies help determine the type of reality we attract to ourselves.   That's very much true.  If you resonate with cynicism and pessimism and self defeating thoughts, nothing good will come your way.   But, if you are positive and fully believe and expect to have things fall into place and work out for you, and resonate with positive and love, then you'll find yourself with a much better life than many other people out there, that's for sure.  So to answer your question about whether learning about the negs will cause one to start seeing them around every corner and thus attracting more of them in......to a degree, yes.   I actually think this is what happens to a lot of people involved in many mainstream, fear-based religions.   Catholicism comes to mind.   It's one of the most fear based religions out there, and Catholics are conditioned to fear negative demons under every rock and around every corner, and are taught that God and Mary are very angry at the world right now and preparing some major comeuppance for humans, any day now.  Consequently, I've noticed that many Catholics I've known over the years seem to be plagued with VERY negative realities.   Gee, I wonder why??   It's because they're conditioned to resonate with a negative, fear based frequency.   So yes, you're right about that to a degree.     

But....this doesn't mean that there aren't still negative entities out there who are looking for any open door opportunity to throw a wrench in the works and mess with your life.   You mentioned that before you even learned about them you had personal experience with them.   So there you go.   And this is where knowledge comes in.   You learn and acknowledge that they exist, you learn how to face them head on and tackle them instead of running from them, and you transcend them.   Keep up your frequency, be alert for the signs of the negs in your reality, tackle them head on, and continue on your merry way with as high of a frequency as you can manage.   

Again, I'm not trying to burst your bubble, I just wanted to respond with my 2 cents of perspective. 

Oh dear, I'm probably going to get myself in trouble here, but I can't help it. Here are a few points I would like to make:

(1) Montalk said: "Love is only one corner of the STO triangle - the other corners are Knowledge and Wisdom." I don't think of love as a corner of anything. Love is also not the sappy, feel good emotional high that many think it is; in fact its not even an emotion at all. Love is, quite possibly, the most amazingly misunderstood aspect of our existence. I like the line from the original posting about not thinking in terms of positive or negative, but rather in terms of limited and unlimited. In this way, love can be more accurately viewed as a conscious energy yielding unlimited creative potential. It is both cause and effect.

(2) Lyra wrote: "If I'm understanding them correctly, these women are either saying that the negs don't exist, and/or, by not acknowledging them they will simply cease to exist in one's reality." Not so; they simply appear to be saying that they themselves have had no direct experience of them. Neither have I, that I know of. How about you?

(3) Lyra wrote: "Knowledge Protects. Ignorance Endangers." Knowledge does little more than fire the intellect. Knowledge itself is merely the accumulation of information, but not all information is accurate or useful. It would be more appropriate to say that Wisdom gleaned from Knowledge is what provides protection at any level, though ultimately we cannot be destroyed anyway. Most survival related fears are simply a factor of existence within a physical body.

(4) Lyra wrote: "You gain knowledge of the negs existance and you face them head on with tactics that you have learned ward them off.   (lack of fear / anger / hate, calling on higher protection, recognizing the signs of them tampering with your reality and then not falling for the manipulation, etc.)" Hmmmn. There is a saying that goes: "What you fight, you become." Personally speaking, I would never engage in any of those things (lack of fear, anger, hate, etc) as simply a means of fighting something else. I have absolutely no interest in facing them at all, and nor do I think about them that much. Doing so would only feed them more energy. Lack of fear, anger, hate, etc are all wonderful things, but only if they arise within you in direct appreciation of something and not in direct opposition of something (otherwise the fear element is still in full effect). At the end of the day, the negs are not really important except as an impetus towards an incipient awareness of higher reality. The only really important thing is your own experiences here, and your own evolution as a result of those experiences.

(5) Lyra wrote: "And this is where knowledge comes in. You learn and acknowledge that they exist, you learn how to face them head on and tackle them instead of running from them, and you transcend them. Keep up your frequency, be alert for the signs of the negs in your reality, tackle them head on, and continue on your merry way with as high of a frequency as you can manage." All this tackling! Damn, you'd be great at football! ;P  Anyway, rather than approaching this with the attitude of constantly being alert for possible attacks, maybe try and change your viewpoint around a little. One who maintains a natural state of fearlessness renders him or herself practically immune from attacks by these negative beings. The purpose of such attacks is usually always to evoke a fearful response, because fear is what gives them power over you. If you take away the possibility of providing a fearful response, you take away any reason for the attack in the first place.

Hi all, thanks for the responses.

Lyra wrote:
"Alright, so, if I'm understanding them correctly, these women are either saying that the negs don't exist, and/or, by not acknowledging them they will simply cease to exist in one's reality.     From what I've seen, experienced and learned, that's simply not true.     I understand that these two women exuded and radiated a feeling of goodness, and because of that, someone would want to latch on their message in order to caputure that feeling of positive good as well.     But their message is disinfo in my opinion and experience, and it's that feeling of good that helps reinforce their disinformation message.  "

Well, actually what you are getting there is more my ragged attempt at fitting their philosophies into my reality (which does include negative entities) as niether one actually broached the subject at all during the course of their lectures. It is when I asked Delores Cannon about them in the Q&A period is when she gave the response that "she really had no experience with them (negative ETs or interdimensionals) and she did'nt worry about them much". That was really all that was said on the subject by either of them.
Martha Moore-Stevens talked mainly of her healing experiences and how she developed her philosophies in a very conservative christian rural Oklahoma setting. Part of what was fascinating about her to me, was that she did it though the system instead of fighting against it. First through the Pentecostal Church, then through more advanced "Christian Science" type of church that I can't remember the name of, and then embracing a much more esoteric philosophy. Whether it was her intention or not, using this approach she was never alienated from the people she lived amongst and was able to do her healing work (which she does for free) with them. As a job she ran a auto repair shop. I would really like to get her direct take on negative entities and perhaps will as I'm thinking on seeking her out.

Montalk wrote:
"It's great that you met Dolores Cannon; she has many interesting books on the alien/metaphysics subject. However, the only thing I can add to Lyra's post is that the dark side always works in the shadows, meaning it often masquerades as the light.

The problem with many metaphysics/NewAge individuals and groups is that they refuse to investigate and acquire practical and tactical knowledge about higher STS forces and their methods of deception. So when they go solely on emotional highs and feel-good memes,   they are easily deceived by negative forces using the right words and hypnotic techniques to induce a mimicry of positive presence. What you can't see is right behind you.

Love is only one corner of the STO triangle - the other corners are Knowledge and Wisdom. And by this, I mean deep, practical, resonating, undoubtable knowledge and wisdom that matches perfectly with your own experience."

Lyra Wrote:
"It boils down to this:     "Knowledge Protects. Ignorance Endangers."   (a C's concept)     
Ostriches bury their heads in the sand, but, it doesn't mean the outside world doesn't still exist.      Again, I'm not trying to be mean, it's just that I have seen a different experience than what these women outline.   Denying the existance of the neg ET's and entities is not only disinformation (despite how good it may feel, it's still disinfo.)   but it's also dangerous, and definitely won't protect anybody from the negs, whether they are ET's or 4D STS entities.     "Knowledge protects, ignorance endangers."      You gain knowledge of the negs existance and you face them head on with tactics that you have learned ward them off.  "

Yes, actually in Delores' case, I've met her a few times and have done a hypnosis session with her (another topic, perhaps). When she made her comment about not having had experience with negative entities, it did send up a red flag of sorts. I was thinking 'naivete' more than anything else as her message and soul resonates well with me. I am not saying that I or she are capable of being decieved however I must go on my instincts on this (that's what got me this far) and I get nothing but purity in her intent and I also trust her 'bullshitometer' as she is very careful in her methods. I am not ready to mount a campaign to promote her to sainthood or anything, but it did occur to me that perhaps some individuals are granted protection from a yet higher source that would prevent them from having to deal with negative entities. This could be done with or without their knowing it and would have the effect of non existance of negative entities to them. As for the lack of mentioning them in their teachings, perhaps the people they are meant to reach are not yet ready to incorporate the existance of these entities into their realities as that can be an earth shattering wake up call and if that one is not timed right, it could lead one downhill rapidly.

Perhaps my new 'rosy colored love filled world' has gotten the best of me, but it is possible at least, and man I'd like to sign up for one of those cosmic passes against the negs if they do exist, but I don't think they're meant for me.

Thoth wrote:
"Love is, quite possibly, the most amazingly misunderstood aspect of our existence. I like the line from the original posting about not thinking in terms of positive or negative, but rather in terms of limited and unlimited. In this way, love can be more accurately viewed as a conscious energy yielding unlimited creative potential. It is both cause and effect."

Lyra wrote:
"You gain knowledge of the negs existance and you face them head on with tactics that you have learned ward them off.     (lack of fear / anger / hate, calling on higher protection, recognizing the signs of them tampering with your reality and then not falling for the manipulation, etc.)        That helps get them out of your reality, not denial.     STS exists, we all know that.     Look around us in the world.....there's negative everywhere.      A person can't say that because they refuse to acknowledge that the bad exists out there in the world then therefore it will simply disappear it from their reality.     It won't work in our 3D world, and it doesn't work when facing 4D negs either."

There is a possility that we can all be in agreement here and that is as in using love as a tactic against them.   I'm reminded of Stuart Wildes "love your enemy" thing (BTW, a bit of a syncronicity occured as when I returned from the conference I found his latest essay "The Great Genourosity" in my email which, to me, related to my experience somewhat). According to him, one of the best defenses against negative entities is to reach out and give them a hug. -Scares the hell out of 'em. I'm sure this is a bit harder than it sounds, because you have to get there first (past your fear), but it could be the ultimate secret weapon after all.

Lyra wrote:
"Again, I'm not trying to burst your bubble, I just wanted to respond with my 2 cents of perspective"

Thanks, I think I'll regard this whole experience as a lesson in itself instead of an illusion bubble(which I did allow myself because it felt good), that way I can bring it into my reality (yes, along with the negs, ha) and raise the whole thing up a notch or two.

Thanks all, Stephen

We're using different dictionaries here. In my dictionary, the terms "negative" and "positive" are not judgments on a moral scale, but objective terms that distinguish between entities who manipulate others to serve self, and those who serve self by serving others. It comes down to freewill choice -- once you're aware of "self" and "other"  you then  choose whether self manipulates or serves other.

As long as there is freewill, entities can choose to try and oppress the light in others ... which by definition indicates an inclination toward darkness. Thus, darkness and light, positive and negative, are real and do exist as a consequence of freewill.

To say that negativity or darkness does not exist is also denying the fact that Creation, while whole and unified at the fundamental level, requires freewill/polarization on the functional level to create differentiated existence and individuated life.

What you said above indicates you believe in the existence of freewill, therefore I think you're contradicting yourself when you say negativity does not exist...unless you're using a different definition of negativity.

There have indeed been cases where someone expected attack and was attacked. But you are making a logical fallacy in using such cases to say that expectation of attack necessarily invites attack. Putting it another way, those who wear seatbelts have indeed died in car accidents, but to say that wearing seatbelts causes deaths is a logical fallacy, a dangerous one when used to advocate that people not wear seatbelts to avoid dying in car accidents, which is backwards from the truth. Likewise, saying that NOT expecting attack can help you avoid it is backwards from the truth.

Also, when it comes to the word "expectation" I think you're confusing awareness with fear. Awareness repels an attack, fear invites it. By not making this distinction, you're implying that cases where fearful expectation has invited attack justifies relinquishing being aware of attacks and the dark side in general.

Three categories come to mind:

1) Those who are neurotic, fearful, and paranoid -- these invite attack and their lives are filled with plenty of attention from enemies, real and imagined.

2) Those who are willfully ignorant of attacks in an effort of reality "un-creation" -- these often don't get attacked because they are already in the bag as far as negative manipulation is concerned.

3) Those who are aware of attacks without being neurotic, fearful, or paranoid, only aware and prepared -- these do not invite attacks, and if an attack happens, they are fully prepared to meet it.

In your arguments, I think you're giving us a false choice between options 1) and 2) when option 3) is the best one. In your view, given what I explained about fear being what attracts attacks, is there still something wrong with awareness?

Hrm   Personally I think that "negative" and "positive" are ALWAYS subjective value judgments. How can they be otherwise? Who is the person making the decision that action (a) is negative whilst action (b) is positive? If an entity manipulates others to serve himself it is only because others are allowing themselves to be manipulated, knowingly or not, and is never a violation of what little freewill we have whilst here. But why is this a "negative" thing? If the results of the manipulation actually turned out to have beneficial effects for those manipulated, what then? Perhaps that manipulation was even an important or essential aspect of their current life path(s) incarnational experiences. STS and STO are merely two different experiential paths and modes of consciousness, and with the limited perspective that is afforded to us whilst here there is absolutely no way of really knowing the true quality of anything.

I don't see that darkness and light are either positive or negative. I think that they are two different aspects of the same whole, and both equally important and relevant to the processes involved at all levels of creation. The key is to find the balance between the two, not deny one in favor of the other. This only results in polarity division, and the continuance of the never-ending conflicts that arise from that division.

Like I said, I don't think that negativity and darkness are the same thing at all, and I am not saying darkness does not exist. It does, just like the light. The functional freewill that we have in 3D reality is actually quite limited in nature due to a myriad of environmental factors. Polarization itself is certainly very useful in the process of forming a unique, individuated consciousness fragment, but is an illusion that can be dropped as one progresses as it is no longer needed.

Well, I don't need to believe in freewill: I know it exists. I simply do not attach any kind of negative or positive labels onto actions of freewill by myself or others. So, I guess that we have a different definition of it, which is perfectly okay.

Well, I wasn't saying that it necessarily invites attack, but that it often can. There are quite simply too many other factors involved to generalize that easily. But either way, as long as someone thinks that they have something to lose then they are inviting attack from the kind of entities or individuals that would be only too happy to deprive them of it. And I'm not advocating that you NOT expect an attack: this is simply moving from one end of the spectrum to the other. I neither expect nor don't expect attack because - honestly - I couldn't care less. And wearing seatbelts doesn't cause deaths; crashing cars does ;-)

Awareness does nothing at all to repel an attack. If fear invites an attack, wouldn't it simply be a lack of fear that repels the attack? If an entity sees a vulnerability that it can happily exploit, then its a safe bet that it will attack you, whether you see it coming or not.

Absolutely, yes.

This is where we are getting our strings crossed, I think. I am not advocating having a kind of head-in-the-sand, la-la-la-la-la, no-one-is-gonna-attack-me attitude. Not at all. Like I said, this is just running right to the opposite extreme of the paranoid behavior of the first person by embracing denial, which is still fear-based and still puts emphasis solidly on being attacked.

The key however, at least in my opinion, is not in the awareness of a possible attack, but in the lack of fear about being attacked at all: "Attack me or don't attack me - I don't give a rat's ass because I've nothing to lose, so you've nothing to gain."

Hopefully I've clarified what I meant. It's not that there is anything wrong with awareness per se, except for when that awareness places you on a permanent defensive posture; this is a fearful response that might only serve to encourage a potential attacker.

Thoth, thanks for the clarification. I didn't know you considered darkness and negativity different things. I consider both equivalent with "STS" which I define to mean serving self by manipulating others. As for freewill, you're right that those who "serve" an STS being do so willingly.

However, I think there are definite differences between STS and STO paths toward the Creator, mainly that while higher STS tries to undermine freewill, STO tries to preserve it for all involved. This difference is significant because given someone who is in an ambivalent situation, an encounter with an STS manipulator would lead to decrease of freewill, while an encounter with an STO being would most likely result in a fostering of freewill. Consider the difference between a naive person unknowingly befriending a con artist versus a spiritual person who can help him become more aware.

(added later):

Some forms of polarization are beneficial, others are not. When you say "finding a balance between the two", some people make the mistake of using the wrong two poles.  What I mean is, there's a duality of STS and STO, and a duality of mean/evil/bad and nice/kind/good.  These sets of dualities are not equivalent, and it would be a mistake to consider them so.  Getting rid of the first duality leads to depolarization, a step  backward as far as spiritual evolution is concerned. But getting rid of the second duality is beneficial.  The STS matrix relies upon the second duality, which is actually a false dichotomy, to keep people preoccupied with incompatible moral judgments that support warfare and competition. The act of "depolarizing" from the predator/prey dynamic is necessary to polarize more toward the STO current of evolution -- there you have an example of these two dualities are different.

I guess some would consider this splitting hairs, but it's an important point because if you mistake one duality for the other, or fail to acknowledge the difference between them, you run the risk of halting your polarization toward STS or STO by either

1) trying to establish a balance between predator/prey elements within yourself rather than transcending that duality or

2) polarizing toward good/kind/nice which is still within the STS dynamic because it's the "prey" component to the STS system

The first sounds good because it involves "balance" - but it's actually far from balance because you then merely become a mix between STS type "A" and STS type "B" - keeping yourself still within the STS dynamic. 

The second sounds good only because it picks the apparently better of two false choices. There are people who, knowing that predatory behavior is not the way to go end up choosing the opposite stance: prey. These are ones who turn the other cheek, who tolerate abuse and think they deserve it, who never stand up for themselves or hurt others, or deny predators food because that would be mean, etc...

Unlimited vs limited -- that's a great way to look at things as far as personal evolution goes. But I think awareness/knowledge/wisdom is what helps you see through limits and controls. Positive emotions have a way of making you overconfident. That helps in cases where you must get past illusory self-imposed limits, but unless tempered by awareness, it can kill you when it comes to limits that still apply.

This is probably the one issue I've read here on the site where I don't think I can agree with what I'm reading. Thoth is very close, I suggest, with his "STA" idea, but I think we can do better yet.  I have a fundamental problem with equating the concept of "service to self" with darkness and negativity and I suggest that better definitions of concepts might be in order.

ALL of us practice STS behavior by simply existing.. we must survive, and therefore we need food, shelter, sometimes healthcare, etc.  In order to secure these basic needs, we seek out gainful employment and earn our keep.. this is all for our own "selfish" benefit.

Once the basic needs of survival are met, I think it's fair to say that any additional funds that we spend on recreational activities is also clearly money that is not being used for "Service to Others" -- are we honestly saying that is somehow dark and negative?   The money you spent on the computer you're using right now could have been used to do something more clearly "to serve others."

It seems to me most of us on reading these forums are probably among the highest caliber of moral people on the planet -- moral to me meaning "will not intentionally hurt other people (except in self-defense) and trying to make the world a better place for our being here in some capacity or another."  I guess Ayn Rand probably wrote a lot more clearly on this subject than I am able to, but I think every human being has a RIGHT TO EXIST for his own sake regardess of other people as long as he respects their same right to exist.  If he chooses of his own free will to help others, for whatever reason, that's a wonderful thing, but if he doesn't I don't think that makes him negatively-oriented, dark or evil.  He's just living his life.  This person might not have many friends but they're still not "evil" ... at worst they may be neutral as far as social morality goes.

However, those who disregard the rights of others through violence, fraud, covert manipulations etc. are the true "dark forces" as I see it.   To use a term familiar to the readers here, the "freewill violators" and their  dark comrades who support them are the ones who are dark/negative, not those who are merely of an STS orientation.

Now, let me anticipate a possible counterpoint to my argument .. and the only logical one I can think of -- would be to say that the Earth has finite resources and therefore we MUST all share with each other, ie, socialism/communism.  However it seems to me that there is infinite energy out there and just about anything is possible, and any "shortage of resources" that someone could claim is probably an artificially-created crisis to serve some person or group's dark agenda.

To sum up, we can look at it as three categories:

(DARK, VOLUNTARY) FREEWILL VIOLATOR -- chooses to do anything for own benefit, disregarding rights of others .. a physical or spiritual criminal
(NEUTRAL) SERVICE TO SELF -- We all fit here as a consequence of being alive in 3D space.
(LIGHT, VOLUNTARY) SERVICE TO OTHERS -- chooses to help, enlighten others in some way.