Faith (Page 1 of 2)

You are correct faith and truth do not go hand in hand.  If you are only focussed on 3D truths that can be physically experienced, then yes faith is not needed. There is a degree of faith required when thinking and dealing with 4D and above.

I agree if you take any diety and/or purpose for what you are doing out of the equation, then yes faith is not required. But then why are you doing what you are doing? If you add the diety and or have a purpose for living in a certain manner, then faith is needed that what ever will happen at whatever time, will infact happen.

Anything may be used to imprison people faith is probably about the easiest scapegoat. Free thinking is key. So is defining terms and boundaries. Many people whom have identified that faith in (a) God is not necessary/ wasteful still send their kids to public school which is proving/ proven to be wasteful and counterproductive. This person may think they are free(maybe they are/ maybe they aren't) yet they at least still live in a degree of imprisonment.

Faith occurs in more than just in relation to a diety or rules. You have faith you have a clean water supply. That money will come in one way or another, that the sun will rise etc.

BLIND faith and NON thinking can definitely be confused and led-astray. Blind faith and non thinking are disempowering.

My two cents.

hummm,points taken,...not really though Adama,alot of us stumble across it without actively seeking it, many have it ,I wouldn't say forced but thrust upon them, others don't know any different and don't look for it, they are to busy having faith in what the schools, science and religion has told them is the truth.

If you don't "see" the truth then you haven't been looking for it.
You don't need "faith" to experience truth.:)

Faith = Hope + Belief
(wouldn't want to live in a world without any of them)

Besides, isn't "Truth" subjective?

Yup Pink, I concur, I would think the "truth" is subjective.

Your right Adama,it's pointless to argue over words, I'm looking for different perspectives regarding the word "faith" , the use of "faith" in our desires and the "faith" system as the world perceives it and whether it is a good ,bad or pointless concept to have "faith".
I'm just contemplating that it is perhaps pointless.
Even perhaps a weapon of suppression.

Nexus, I will never again allow anyone to tell me "this is the way, this is how you do it, follow me, I know the way to perfection, or I have the key to get out...." etc.
So no, I would not take the advise of any spiritual teacher, but I will take information as it is presented to me.
I went passed that the day I realised the many systems set-up to keep us in slavery.
I'm going to let myself show me the way.

I'm also wondering if , when I get there, if I get there, (I have no "faith" in myself), if I will like what I discover.

But this is not about me, it's about "faith".

Can you see it as a key deceptor, can you imagine it to be the same as another word, "belief" ,which is the same thing and therefore part of the deception?

See faith, apparently = belief and all these beliefs, have been set up to deceive us, therefore these words and concepts being part of this system cannot be trusted and should not be part of your "feel" perhaps, but part of your "knowledge".
It's just listening to the may different theories, many who concur with each other and intermingle, it becomes quite impossible to "believe" in anything anymore, apart from your own experience and knowledge.

So what I mean is, picture yourself knowing the whole truth,...ok you there?.......now you have no need for "faith".

It no longer exists, if "faith" exists in your world it is because it is part of the untruth.

It's like if someone asks you what you beleive in and you reply "I don't believe in anything, I only am", you might be there,you know,were we all want to be.

*Sorry if I'm blathering on , I'm just trying to figure this out, although it may have no relevence to anyone else or only partial relevence to some.*

and in all of that there is no sign of faith

but another interesting debate, perhaps truth is the truth no matter how you perceive it to be individually and cannot  be subjective.

I think i really do see where your coming from calpamu.  Self knowlege, when it is attained, replaces blind faith.

And BTW no true spiritual teacher says 'follow me' except to show the student [ of life ] how to 'follow' [ become ] his higher self.  You cannot follow an Adept any more than you can 'follow' a master builder to learn construction.  When you've reached a certain level of mastery in construction you may stay and work with your teacher or you may not and leave.   Too many people have had too many bad experiences with too many false 'gurus' that they have lost faith in anyone being the real Mcoy.

Some people who have attained spiritual self mastery have in turn become spiritual teachers.  A lot can be learned from a true spiritual teacher and it is not simply truth concepts that they can impart.  It is something much more valuable.  Because a true Adept has attained spiritual self conciousness he/she can impart that spirit to you.  You may question the value of that.  You may ask, if you have a spiritual self yourself why do you need a teacher... Adept or not ?

It's because most people have little or no true concious realisation of the inner Teacher.  As you know a tenuous thread of intuition which cuts in and out is not the fullness of higher conciousness.  The 'still small voice' is not always heard well enough to be an unerring guide even for most spiritual aspirants.  There may be certain inner directions that we are just not getting clearly.  There may be important things which if understood could accelerate our spiritual path.

You may currently have certain beliefs.  You may believe that a trustworthy spiritual Teacher cannot exist.  If so,  then it stands to reason that you may never find one.  If you believe that you don't need a spiritual Teacher then you wont accept one even if that teacher has much to offer.

The problem is, generally speaking,  that even spiritual aspirants may often have a poverty of spirit in their lives, such that they may not even know it.  The gulf between the inner conciousness and the outer awareness may seem to be very great.  A true spiritual teacher, compassionate and respectfull, has the spiritual empowerment to help bridge that gap to some degree even while they teach you how to realise and depend on your inner self.  A true Teacher does not want a student to worship them or depend on them.

A true spiritual teacher can actually transfer some portion of their own higher conciousness to yourself. It is a grace given to accelerate your realisation of yourself.  It is a gift that the Teacher can give in the role of 'mediator' between your soul and your higher self.  The cosmic law allows for this grace in the person of the true Teacher.  That is why they have always come.  Unfortunately they are invariably rejected by the sophistry of the average guy.  They are seen as dispensable for one reason or another usually because of mistrust.  The true teacher bows to the God in you and your freewill.

Forget the false teachers.   If we are truly aspiring and searching a true Teacher will reveal themselves to us.  But they never force.  It is up to each individual to recognise a little help when it comes.

A true Teacher [ if i may use the term once more ] is not " one of the many systems set up to keep us in slavery."  False teachers are exactly that.  In order to recieve what a true teacher has to give we just need to discern the difference.