Re: Salvia Divinorium

I have smoked Salvia once with amazing effects, but it is difficult to smoke an adequate amount quickly enough before one loses the motor skills necessary to smoke.  www.sagewisdom.org has an extract of the main psychoactive chemical, salvinorin A.  I have considered ordering this as it would be much easier than smoking, but wonder if in a way doing it in an unnatural way is like an offense to the plant teacher, or something like that?

"Isolation, mis-education, and for the very clever there is looming liquidation."  -Catch Twenty-Two "Bad Party"

Re: Salvia Divinorium

Yes, yes it is. Any extract over 15x is also considered an affront to the Green Lady, and is usually produced by companies looking to make profit as opposed to serious growers of the natural varieties.

You're staring at yourself
I'm kicking down the walls
For all is naught

48

Re: Salvia Divinorium

Just got my 15x extract salvia in from salvia supply.com , also came with some free woodrose seeds.
I Cant wait till i get to try it out , i would do it now but i have to go 2 work in a n hour.

Anyways any thing i should know before i smoke it? or is there anything i can do to enhance the trip (besides what was already mentioned)

Re: Salvia Divinorium

Barefoot doc wrote:

Unlike shrooms which give a glimse into unseen realms with feelings of intition, heightened awareness and a jigsaw forming a picture you still have your core ego in the background as you have one foot in this world and one foot in another

You must be staying with standard "recreational" doses that most people do.  Do enough mushrooms (I'm talking at least 3/8-5/8 oz potent dried cubensis) and I promise you full ego death.  The problem with full ego death experiences is that my definition nothing is left to remember them.  You may have a vague sense of the infinite beauty and such experienced, but even with Salvia, the experiences you remember were those where at least some tiny corner of "you" was still there to record it.

Still, you are right that nothing compares Salvia.  Definitely NOT a recreational drug.  It seems to have a bit of a dissociative effect in addition to psychedelic, and the twist is pretty incredibly weird.

As far as things you should know before you do Salvia?  Make sure you get enough in your first hit, cause it is very likely you won't be able to manage a second.

Personally, I think if you really want to get in touch with the green lady, don't smoke the extract at all, as that is sort of a hasty western approach that smacks of "getting high."  Not to say that I haven't smoked it, but if you want an experience more in tune with tradition (and hence more in tune with the vast mana of collective experience and history) chew the leaves for a while, or even juice some leaves in a wheat grass juicer and hold it under your tongue (your stomach breaks down salvanorin-A, the active component, which is also the most potent naturally occuring psychotropic chemical known, almost as strong as LSD).

seeker of truth

follow no path
all paths lead where

truth is here

E.E. Cummings

Re: Salvia Divinorium

It can be stronger in some senses then LSD, I believe.

Re: Salvia Divinorium

It is stronger than LSD in its effects if enough is taken to reach total disasociation/hyperdimensional . It is known as the most powerfull halucinagen there is and as StarCat says can be very brutal with the twisting out of this space/time continium before the breakthrough.
LSD seemed to carry a vibe of freedom and exploration in the 60s but nowadays carries more a vibe of madness and psychosis.

Its not like we are fractions of the whole but rather versions of the whole.

Re: Salvia Divinorium

Barefoot Doc wrote:

It is stronger than LSD in its effects if enough is taken to reach total disasociation/hyperdimensional . It is known as the most powerfull halucinagen there is and as StarCat says can be very brutal with the twisting out of this space/time continium before the breakthrough.
LSD seemed to carry a vibe of freedom and exploration in the 60s but nowadays carries more a vibe of madness and psychosis.

I'll second this.  I had a very few attempts, and only made a partial breakthrough, but I pulled back.  Now I grow my own plants, but dont' use them!  I'm considering using the leaves in the traditional quid method for a gentler ride.

Now, the comment about the difference in LSD of the 60's and now is an interesting one  that bears exploring.  Why would a drug carry one vibe, then change?  My personal theory is that different drugs take you to a different "space," and I think this is a very real place.  Over time, it can become polluted, just as an over-crowded temple would.  If respectful people use a substance, they respect the temple.  They take off their shoes, leave nothing behind, etc.  If it becomes the recreational thing to do by people with no respect, the floor gets muddy and the temple gets vandalized.  Pot space, for example, has become a slum in my opinion.

Re: Salvia Divinorium

I meant chemically, as in, 100 mcg (.0001 grams) of LSD produces a powerful effect, and only 230mcg of Salvanorin-A is necessary.  No other chemicals really come close (except a certain opiod used as an animal tranquilizer, the name currently eludes me though)

seeker of truth

follow no path
all paths lead where

truth is here

E.E. Cummings

Re: Salvia Divinorium

limukala wrote:

No other chemicals really come close (except a certain opiod used as an animal tranquilizer, the name currently eludes me though)

Are you referring to Ketamine, also known as Special K?  I've never tried it (never would inject anything into my veins), but I think it sounds scary as hell.

Re: Salvia Divinorium

nah, the K experience is very intense, but from a chemical standpoint it is pretty weak (it takes at least 1000 times as much as LSD.)

The opiate I was thinking of was Carfentanil, which is approximately 8000 times as potent as morphine, and is used as a tranquilizer for large animals (elephants, bears, etc).

Let me be crystal clear in saying that by potency, I am not in any way referring to the percieved effects or intensity of experience produced, but simply to the amount needed to produce a powerful efffect.  In this regard, no naturally occuring chemicals (thus found) come close to Salvanorin A, and nothing is as potent as LSD.

As far as intensity of experience, Salvia is hard to beat there too, although I'd have to say its basically impossible to make a quantitative comparison of this sort between such completely different drugs.  In that respect, I'd say my (hypothetical) experience on 5/8 oz potent dried cubensis easily compared to any experience on Salvia, or K, or pretty much anything else for that matter.  Subjectively I'd have to say that ether is, at the very least, somewhere very near the top of the list of most intense experiences (don't try this at home kids, easy to blow yourself up, and you reek of it for the next 8 hours, smells like a cross between formaldehyde and rubbing alcohol).

btw, you don't have to inject K (though I hear that is more intense), and even when people do they almost always do it IM instead of IV.  It is definitely out there, but I just don't get the sense of spiritual edification that I do from naturals, such as mushies or salvia (or peyote or ayahuasca I imagine, though I've never tried).

seeker of truth

follow no path
all paths lead where

truth is here

E.E. Cummings

Re: Salvia Divinorium

You dont have to inject ketamine... most snort it.

Just thought id clarify.. lol

Re: Salvia Divinorium

Voodoo wrote:

Has anyone here used the sage wisdom of Salvia Divinorium. I was just wondering about others experiences, I have not broken through however, I have read and have some knowledge about it. Anyway, I just want to see if people have had any profound experiences on the NR.

Here are a couple of people's experiences found online which I found insightful:

Realization of becoming bound to physical Earth realm:

I found myself in a trance-like dream, dreaming that I was someone else. I was a young kid who had fallen onto a dusty road and got some dirt in his eyes.

My father helped me up and wiped the earth out of my eyes. As he was doing so, this reality, this place, this Earth disappeared, wiped away by his handkerchief. I saw my earthly reality as a dark stained mark on that white cloth in his hand, and it all pulled away from me as he withdrew the cloth and crumpled it up, closing it in his fist. He said, "You know, you ought to be careful not to let that earth get in your eyes. If you do, you soon lose all contact with who you really are, getting all wrapped up in that strange place, believing that it is real." Then he said, "You can live a lifetime there and not know that it is just earth in your eyes."

Piercing the veil, realizing the illusory nature of physicality:

My consciousness and physical body began twisting and stretching like some bizarre silly putty being pulled though a cosmic taffy machine. I had visions of lives playing out, representing the whole of human experience, love, war, riot and everything in between. I could clearly see my entire biological history, the chain of life. I had somehow accessed my genetic and cellular memory. All of my ancestors were present, then I realized that they always are, I just can't always perceive them. I saw how potentiality becomes reality by force of will, that thought IS matter. And I am dead serious when I say this, the actual physical world around us, meaning even the floor you are standing on, or the toilet you are pissing into, is created by a consensus of thought emanating from our multi-dimensional selves, vibrating at varying speeds, creating first the sub-atomic particles, which then combine and grow, and combine and grow, and on and on until we have atoms, molecules, proteins, single-celled organisms, complex organisms, and finally the human and it's large brain, which can re-access the cellular, molecular and sub-atomic memories, commune with the just-out-of-perception logos and realize it's place in the continuum of existence that we ourselves created in the first place. When I "woke up" from this lucid dream-like state, I saw that about an hour had passed. The time compression was pronounced, and was very strange, it really only seemed that twenty minutes at most had passed.I was surprised that I felt nearly 100% normal.

alushe wrote:

We were dancing in the patterns and I could feel everything as if it were real... it is real. This physical reality is a trap, I now know that for sure. I have been having insights on densities etc, and I have truly tasted "godhood"...

I believe it unlocks a deprogramming sequence in the mind, allowing one to view the "higher" reality uninhibited. Things only get bigger, this planet we are on is a dense area of space that draws consciousness into it, like a metaphysical black hole. It is based on patterns, which are it's "code" - eg the movement of the stars, solar systems, and most importantly our planet. These patterns also exist as nature, which in turn begets humanity.
"The fall" was a descension of consciousness being pulled into the density of this encoded space, which I believe was created by the other side of this reality, the "dark side". Sat Tan (Being becoming)/ the womb of the "matrix"
We humans are composites of a complex pattern of raw matter encoded by a being far too big for us to fathom. Look at the specks of dust in the air... now look closer, at the atoms and the patterns they make... and then imagine how the galaxies look spinning in the void.
  We are consciousness encoded into these forms, the world around us all being part of a larger complex pattern. Free will is irrelevant, death is irrelevant... The real purpose of human existence is to further itself in every way, to benefit the whole evolution of the great sleeping ones.
All paths are relevant, and my proof of this is that these paths exist. They are all created, the world we are in is merely a test, a proving ground for our consciousness before it moves onto other things.  All the gnostic/buddhist/dark doctrines/even fiction has described this, and I have tasted it.

AAAAGGGH!!! smile Amazing. Trap, deprogramming, codes, great sleeping ones .  .  . amazing.

I am as is Void.

Re: Salvia Divinorium

thook wrote:

I was left with a choice, was my life going to be a heaven or a hell? Will I let go of my illusions and selfishness, my fear?

I must say that I am somewhat familiar with this 'choice' from my own experiences and also those experiences that I have heard from others - a friend of mine took a double dose of some especially potent liquid LSD at Kerville recently and after passing the initial feeling of 'anything can happen in this moment', there came a point when his attention became aware of the potential for negativity through a flippant suggestive comment made by a passer by. After that he became aware of a choice he had to make - whether to continue on the previous path (positivity) or to allow the negative suggestive comment to completely entrap his awareness by giving it his attention.

I am as is Void.

59 (edited by Xenopope 2006-08-12 06:56:30)

Re: Salvia Divinorium

smile Okay!

Did the date with SallyD. I had about a gram of 10x 'incense' - enough for five doses. Thank you to my good friend who gave it to me!

Let a few friends try it before I did. None of us had done it before. I showed up at my friends around 12 midnight, they had been drinking beers, I had a couple beers before we decided to initiate the session. We used a regular sized glass water bong. Here's how it went.

First I let Bo try. All I told him was what I had heared - take two hits, hold it in as long as you can but not so long that you don't have time to take the second hit before it 'hits' you. I asked him if he wanted to place any 'stipulations' on what I would and wouldn't 'let' him do after it hit him. He told me no except to not let him go outside. He understood there was a possibility for 'exit' and a possibility he might move his body without full 'coherence' thereby possibly doing something harmful to himself or his surroundings. I acted as his 'sitter'. And we all understood someone may need to take the bong from him or make sure he dosen't drop it. Loaded him up with a couple hits. He opened up the chamber and flooded it with more smoke than he could take in so he just held what he had and covered it. Let that out and finished the rest. Don't think he really held in the second at all because shortly after hitting it the second time he 'popped' and spit up a bit. We took it from him he layed back on the couch. He began to laugh and then would stop laughing and begin again. We all watched him silently: Frank and I standing in front of the couch, Bubba sitting next to him. Bo looks at us and proclaims, "What the #&$% is going on here!?" About this time Frank made a hand gesture around his head and proclaimed, "Aliens . ! . " Bo was semi-coherent in his presence, I could tell because his attention would 'vere' off and back again, he would talk to us briefly and then trail off again . . . He stood up and started looking all around the room like WTF and he was asking us, "What the #&$% are you guys doing!?" When he stood up he acted a bit dizzy and even looked like he might fall through the window beside him so I came closer to steady him but he caught himself and stepped into the room and began looking around, into the dark dining room, we all watched him - he seemed very confused like he was utterly perplexed about what was going on. He may have proclaimed something like, "you mother#&$%ers!" He was looking at us like there was something very wrong and I told him, "It's okay, it's cool" He went into the doorway to the lighted bedroom past the wall in front of the couch and looked inside asking, "What the #&$% is going on in here!?" he went and smacked the wall with his hand and layed into it before he turned back and towards the front door to go outside. I let him open the door as he would, knowing I would watch him closely but that he would be fine. He stepped into the doorway and looked outside and then stood in the doorway looking sideways before coming back inside and walking through the darkened dining and into the lighted kitchen. I followed and he turned around, came back and began talking to us as he was beginning to return. He said that it was, "#&$%ed up" and that he could still feel it in him but that he was starting to 'come out'.

Bo said later that what happened to him was that he felt everything shift and slowly bounce off to the lower left and go, "whoh-whoh-whoh-whoh" then to his left he saw the veil of reality where _this_ reality ended and on the other side of the veil was only darkness but not even darkness but just a 'void' of nothingness. (so he had to go investigate the darker dining area where he had seen this veil of reality) That there was a condition of reality he found undesirable and that this condition led him to go outside and look to see if it was the same out there - he was looking for relief, not from the inside but from reality itself.

Then we lit up Bubba after he asked us a few questions about it. He took his two and layed back on the couch. He began laughing almost immediately, first thing he said was, "Legos baby" Then he continued laughing and proclaimed "All I know is all I saw was shopping carts and legos" and "I don't wanna get up off the couch" and "I can't get up off the couch" The after a minute he got up and walked around started talking to us like he was coherent again. The inference was that he had seen everything in reality put together like blocks or legos.

At this point I wasn't entirely sure I would even do it myself but Frank was like, "Your turn!" So I decided it would be pretty silly to just watch them and not participate since I knew I wouldn't really have a true 'benchmark' unless I did.

I didn't really prepare myself at all. I had had a couple beers and I was fairly relaxed - all I did was take a deep breath before I smoked. My first hit was half the bowl - I held it in for only about 12 seconds before blowing it out and taking the second. I knew about how fast it would hit me from watching the others. After the second I put it down and layed back on the couch and closed my eyes. Right then it hit me and I felt myself drifting up and away - not really drifting but _traveling_, away from this reality. I felt a spiral within my own conciousness and I felt it as being vertical, perpendicular to my spine, going up, out and away. By closing my eyes I had begun to let go of myself and this was the natural direction she sent me - along this path of my own conciousness. When I felt that my entire being (my conciousness and everything else in this reality) was being spiraled out and away from my body I felt that there would be some possibility that I would never return (at the beginning of this spiral I realized that I was percieving my own conciousness as being the same thing as this entire reality - this was why it was both myself and this reality that was 'spiraling out') My conciousness was imploding into itself and at the same time spiraling up, out and away. This was a little scary so I opened my eyes and had to 'catch' myself in 'mid spiral'. I had to 'straighten myself out' through my own will power. I resisted the spiral by making myself straighten back out in the opposite direction of the spiral. Then, with open eyes, I looked straight ahead and saw the room I was in but I was a little bit 'bigger' than myself. I was still feeling myself as being _everything_ in my reality which included all matter - the house, furniture, everything. But what I saw was that reality (being physical matter we were in) was all completely and continuously being divided by 'lines' of percieved connection (or division). These lines 'came from' the left and 'moved' naturally to the right (of my perception) and they were all flat and thin 'surfaces' (each laying flat, perpendicular to the floor) dividing reality itself. Within these lines was a thin 'light of nothingness'. I understood that what I was percieving was only matter and that IT WAS 'NOT REAL' but only a 'form' of ourselves. I knew that the real 'us' (our conciousness) was not physical matter and I even thought of the whole world as mere toys. Now, when I percieved these 'lines', it was something undesirable - BEING IN THIS PHYSICAL REALITY was something undesirable. I had a flash of knowing which felt like a feeling of 'community' with physical reality and a knowing that physical reality was just something we created. I felt that the lines might cause me harm in some way and so I wanted to _remove_ myself from or escape intersection with the lines. So I got up off the couch and walked to another part of the room while trying to avoid the lines but the lines intersected everything (all matter in the reality, including our bodies) so I quickly realized that it's all connected and that there would be no escape by merely moving my body anywhere. But the lines were still there and interstecting me and everything and I began to fear that I would never return to 'normal'. So, in search of relief, I returned to the couch and burried my head in the pilow beside me - it felt slightly comfortable but I still wasn't 'back' and was still feeling the lines and the 'twisting off of reality' feeling. That whole time my conciousness felt a bit 'swirved' in the direction of the spiral like as if I hadn't completely straightened myself. Pretty sure I got up again after that and went walking into the next room and into the dining so as to examine physicality and it's intersecting lines but my perception of the lines had begun to fade. I still felt pretty woozy but I soon began talking very fast to my friends about what it was that had happened.

I knew that none of us had achieved 'break through' but was pretty sure I would have if I had not resisted the spiral. I was sinking into an abyss within my own conciousness. The 'route' was within my 'center' but it felt like it was leading into another dimension and that I would not return. In retrospect, I feel like I could have been fairly certain that I would have returned. But in that moment I was certain that I would never return had I followed the spiral. It felt like it would have been death. Not painful but just a removal wherein I would have lost all perception and knowledge of the 'me' that was my body in physical reality.

Now, eight hours later, I feel my perception has changed forever. There can be no doubt now that my conciousness is a spiral through infinity and into this physical reality.

I am as is Void.

60 (edited by Natural Mystic 2006-08-12 07:02:23)

Re: Salvia Divinorium

Ahhh!  A cliffhanger!

LoL, your friends trip is funny.  I can just imagaine him walking all over the place saying, WTF!?!?

It's intresting about how both of those trips had something to do with how reality is 'created', and viewing other reality close to this one.  So what would that 'voil reality' be that he saw?

Along with the quotations in your other post, they made me feel as if there is SO much that we cannot perceive and it is literally "stupid" to get so caught up in this one (choosing a negative thought loop).  I just feel like.. experiencing the totality of consciouness now!  I wonder if a constant state of awareness and understanding is possible, kinda like a lucid-dream state but in the 3D realm?

Intresting trip!  Where do you think you were going when "spiraling"?

And cool description on reality and how everything is connected; and the line about "realizing that moving your body" wouldn't escape the 'reality' just goes to show that everything is indeed within and through that lies all creative potential.

"Beyond the stars a new world awaits me now" - Wintersun