• montalk
  • montalk
  • forum-keeper-upper
  • Offline
  • Registered: 2004-03-24

Topic: Castaneda, before and after?

Viktor Sanchez, author of "The Toltec Path of Recapitulation", dedicated his book as follows:

Sanchez wrote:

I dedicate this book to the memory of that Carlos Castaneda of the earlier years.

Recently in an email, someone recommended to me some Castaneda books and mentioned that he liked "The Art of Dreaming" and all the ones that came before it, as it was the last book written before Castaneda "changed."

I read Castaneda's books out of order and couldn't notice this change. Is anyone here familiar with what the difference is between the early and late Castaneda?

Acquiring fringe knowledge is like digging for diamonds in a mine field.

montalk's Website

  • From: "Over the Hills and Far Away"
  • Registered: 2004-05-03

Re: Castaneda, before and after?

Castaneda was not bound to physicality. Being on "The path" he was merely acting as a "shell" of the "Castaneda-writer", he was a Toltec, which means the writing side of him was not a priority anymore as He was on the way to acquiring the "fire from within". It is suspected that Carlos never wanted to write but was "made to do it" to fulfill Toltec prophecies. Having engaged on the path at 24 to satisfy curiosity his role as carlos was a trial AND a gift from Toltecs to the world. It is also suspected that Don Juan was NOT a "Master of His own Destiny" but in fact a 4th generation toltec. A 4th generation toltec is one who does not wish to gain power from his endeavours but would rather serve the "purpose". In 1978, Don Juan emerged from "The Unknown" and showed the world what the Native American world should have never ceased to be. A powerful part of Earth in terms of Energetical, spiritual and cultural influence. Toltecs known as "Detoras" have been emerging in the last 4 years. Among those the one formerly known as CRC. This renewal of the Toltec system is showing signs of being the new territory for the loha


(Thanks for the help, J.)

"He simply said: Laianela"
  • bumblebee
  • bumblebee
  • interdimensional intelligence analyst
  • Offline
  • From: tau ceti
  • Registered: 2004-10-18

Re: Castaneda, before and after?

Victor Sanchez wrote:

I met two Castanedas. The first one is the one I imagined when receiving so much benefit from his earlier books. This one will be close to my heart forever.

The second one, the one creating for-profit enterprises, the self-proclaimed nagual, making lawsuits to protect his business, pretending to be the unique chance to freedom over this planet, the "flyers' talker"--this is the one I don't want to be connected to in any way.

Since my life has been touched so positively by the first one, and so badly by the second, I feel I have some responsibility in helping others to rescue the good part and to keep away from the shitty side. Maybe by watching these two sides we can discover that maybe we all are just like that: having a luminous and a dark side. By recognizing this, we may stop longing for illuminated perfect masters to lead our lives and start to take full responsibility for choosing, improving and making energetic emphasis on our luminous side.

From: http://www.sustainedaction.org/Explorat … anchez.htm

the eyes of truth are always watching you

4 Reply by Krazor

  • Krazor
  • Guest

Re: Castaneda, before and after?

The -change- was the mastery of stopping the internal dialogue. This causes a cascade effect leading to stopping the world and very vivid dream experiences. Beware the possible side effects of directed evil intent and grand mal siezures. It is all about intent anyway. It's been a long time, thanks for bringing back "them days".

  • Registered: 2004-03-30

Re: Castaneda, before and after?

I got a little caught up in the Castaneda hype a few years ago.

Then got turned off his stuff.


Recently I came across a book by Amy Wallace called the Sorcerer's Apprentice.

You can view a few blurbs about the book here:

http://www.northatlanticbooks.com/produ … 40766.html


The book will in most emphatic terms disabuse you of any notions of traveling Castaneda's version of the Sorcerer's Path. Indeed when you think about it why would you want to follow a sorcerer's path at all. You are building up personal power,  mostly used in ongoing spirit battles with other sorcerers. Pure STS if you ask me.

  • Registered: 2004-03-30

Re: Castaneda, before and after?

"By their fruits, you will know them."


That's all you got to know really when shopping around for Spirit.

Speaking of which if want a really excellent read, from which that last phrase is derived, check out, Steve Gamble's Shopping for Spirit series,, here:

http://www.equilibra.uk.com/articles.shtml

  • Registered: 2005-03-07

Re: Castaneda, before and after?

montalk...

I've read nearly all the Castaneda books, and like you, I read them mostly out of order--though I did re-read "Don Juan," "A Separate Reality," "Journey to Ixtlan" in order. 

I noticed the most change when I got to "Eagle's Gift."  I found this book bleak and (at least in spirit) contradictory to the others.  In the other books, Don Juan seemed to emphasize that anybody could move into the Second and Third Attention (fire from within), although it was unlikely without a nagual spurring them on.  In the "Eagle's Gift" I got the impression that one had to be "apprenticed" or have some kind of special energetic configuration in order to avoid "being food for the Eagle." 

That's how I remember "Eagle's Gift," anyway.  With the other books, I highlighted nearly every page.  I struggled to finish "Eagle's Gift."  In hindsight, I think that was because it may have contained "harder truths."  But the book also frequently ran against my intuition.

And, I suppose, I felt it carried a kind of frenetic urgency over avoiding "being food for the Eagle" that I took as an obsession with immortality and living forever.  I just remember thinking, "Jeez, there's always tomorrow..." 

"The Active Side of Infinity," which was a very late book, I liked a lot though.  It felt very different from the others, but it weaved in some general information about the "flyers" (hostile hyperdimensional beings) that "gave us their mind" and manipulate our dreams.  I liked this one because I suppose it spoke to my experience.

If anything, the "change" that I feel through the books is a change from eagerness for knowledge to an almost panic-stricken rush for knowledge because it might be too late for him.

You can't change a tiger's stripes,
but you can avoid its teeth.

8 Reply by lyra (edited by lyra 2005-04-11 18:53:19)

  • lyra
  • lyra
  • Naked Emperor Pointer Outer
  • Offline
  • From: my own private idaho
  • Registered: 2004-03-25

Re: Castaneda, before and after?

"The Active Side of Infinity", which was Casteneda's last book, was actually the first one I read.   I remember reading it for the first time and thinking it was a little odd that Casteneda would suddenly slip in these out of place, gratuitous sexual references and obscene stuff;  then, after reading his earlier works, I REALLY saw the difference in his overall personality and voice in the last book versus his earlier books.    I realized how insane and manic and crazy he sounded in the last book.   Very unstable, like he was losing his mind and going bonkers.   I realized that those out of place sexual references were indeed strange, it wasn't his original style at all, so it wasn't my imagination that they seemed puzzling.   By contrast, his earlier books were more mellow and rational.

Another thing not mentioned here so far:     Anybody else puzzled over why Casteneda tells the same story in multiple books..................but with the details changed around in each version?  I mean, what the hell?   That's how you know that the Don Juan experiences aren't literal and didn't happen as he claims.  They're fables more or less, designed to teach the reader, but they didn't happen as he relates them. 

I got a little miffed and grumbly when I first realized "heeeeeeeeeeey...he already talked about this in the other book.........but in that book it was all different!!!!!!!!!!   He's lying here!!!"   But then I realized that in the end it doesn't matter I guess.  It's the points and ideas being conveyed.   And they're good points, so, just look at it that way.   But I almost stopped reading the books because of it!  smile  I got over it though.   I mean, think of it this way:   How much of ANYTHING is the truth, right?   This entire reality could be one big lie.    Does that mean you stop living it?   wink   hehe

"Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting "Holy shit ... what a ride!"  - Anonymous
-----
"I get by with a little help from my (higher density) friends."
-----

lyra's Website

  • Registered: 2005-03-07

Re: Castaneda, before and after?

lyra wrote:

Another thing not mentioned here so far:     Anybody else puzzled over why Casteneda tells the same story in multiple books..................but with the details changed around in each version?  I mean, what the hell?   That's how you know that the Don Juan experiences aren't literal and didn't happen as he claims.  They're fables more or less, designed to teach the reader, but they didn't happen as he relates them.

I was bothered with this too, after I read so much Castaneda.  I at first rationalized to myself, saying, "Well, a lot of this happened in altered states, and was probably written in an ordinary state, and it's so many years in the past, etc. etc."

After mulling over inconsistencies I finally decided to focus upon the knowledge and concepts.  And after all, it's usually when people become ultrafocused on "facts" of people, places and times and dates around spiritual teachings that unpleasantness begins.  ...What would Christianity look like if "Christians" weren't really concerned at all with the "actualness" of Christ's life and doings, but rather concerned with the knowledge in the Christ stories?

Some are very sensitive about the suggestion that Castaneda's books might have been more fiction than fact, or a blend of fiction and fact at all. 

I used to be bothered with the question of its authenticity, but then I thought: "What does it matter?  Whether he (or anyone) really experienced all the transcendence in the way they said they did doesn't really have a bearing on my achieving transcendence or not..."

...The exception, of course, to that last statement would be that it does matter what a person did or not did, or said or not said, if I were in the position of believing in something false. 

With Castaneda, the only "falsity" I feel I've encountered is the extreme drama he sometimes creates in his books.  Of course, the drama is sometimes funny, and helpful in that it *awakens* you with its extremity...But sometimes drama is just drama, and not additive to progressing along spiritual lines.

You can't change a tiger's stripes,
but you can avoid its teeth.

10 Reply by Brad462

  • Brad462
  • Guest

Re: Castaneda, before and after?

Hello,               I've read a Castaneda early books and his last one active side of infinity,  Lyra you mention his  a big change in his personality from his first books to his late ones.  Strange, I didnt notice much of a change at all , I would expect a bigger change than i did see since his first books were written in the 70's i believe and his last in 1998 very close to win he died.  The only obscene sexual references i remember were said by a professor of his in class he made a comment about oral sex.    (Don't Know how to quote)   "Anyone else notice how Casteneda tells the same story in multiple books but with the details changed around in each version"LYRA            No i didnt notice care to elaborate on that?  I used to love Castaneda's books since the first one i read "Journey to Ixtlan"  But since then i feel like i was damaged by them , like i was withdrawing from life ...maybe i became to obsessed with the sorcerers world.

One positive thing experience i had from his books was "Not -doing" one way to stop the world. At School I practiced not doing one day speaking as little as possible   i felt very energetic at the end of the day   and felt that i had stoped the world so to speak. 
But i tried repeating that again with no results in fact i felt    like i was losing energy.

11 Reply by lyra (edited by lyra 2005-04-16 08:44:56)

  • lyra
  • lyra
  • Naked Emperor Pointer Outer
  • Offline
  • From: my own private idaho
  • Registered: 2004-03-25

Re: Castaneda, before and after?

Brad462 wrote:

Hello,               I've read a Castaneda early books and his last one active side of infinity,  Lyra you mention his  a big change in his personality from his first books to his late ones.  Strange, I didnt notice much of a change at all ,

Well I guess it's subjective then.  wink



Brad462 wrote:

I would expect a bigger change than i did see since his first books were written in the 70's i believe and his last in 1998 very close to win he died.  The only obscene sexual references i remember were said by a professor of his in class he made a comment about oral sex.

Yes, that was definitely one of them, but there were others too in his later books.

Brad462 wrote:
lyra wrote:

"Anyone else notice how Casteneda tells the same story in multiple books but with the details changed around in each version"

LYRA            No i didnt notice care to elaborate on that?

Well, it was like I said - throughout the various Casteneda books, he relays the same stories, yet, each time he tells them, the details are slightly different.   The ending of "The Active Side of Infinity" for instance where Don Juan and the other Sorcerers turn into balls of light and fly away....that same story was relayed in an earlier book, but the details were slightly different.    There can't be 3 or 4 different versions of the same event, so, which version is the "real" story?   Conclusion:  There is no "real" version, because the story probably didn't happen.   But it's okay, like dreammosis and I were both saying, it doesn't really matter whether the stories are true or not.  All that matters is that the reader gets the point that Casteneda was trying to make.    Dreamosis agreed with me on this one and noticed the same thing, and offered further commentary if you're interested, just scan back up a few posts to see.

Casteneda's books are alright, but I prefer Theun Mares' Toltec books better, only because the style is more to my liking.   It's direct, to the point, presenting the material like a comprehensive How-to user's manual, skipping all of the meandering hallucinogenic adventures found in Casteneda's books.   It's awesome.   To each his own though, some prefer Casteneda, some prefer Theun and other sources.   

That's good that you were able to practice not-doing and had success.  smile   I'm not sure why the second time you would have actually lost energy.....there could have been other factors at work.  Did you have a lot of "internal dialogue" going on?   Where your mind was talking a lot to itself with many thoughts, even though you weren't verbally talking outloud?   That's a source of energy drain too.   It's one possibility.

"Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting "Holy shit ... what a ride!"  - Anonymous
-----
"I get by with a little help from my (higher density) friends."
-----

lyra's Website

12 Reply by Brad462 (edited by Brad462 2005-04-16 13:21:28)

  • Brad462
  • Guest

Re: Castaneda, before and after?

Hello Lyra ,   Thanks for the response. 

"""""That's good that you were able to practice not-doing and had success.  smile   I'm not sure why the second time you would have actually lost energy.....there could have been other factors at work.  Did you have a lot of "internal dialogue" going on?   Where your mind was talking a lot to itself with many thoughts, even though you weren't verbally talking outloud?   That's a source of energy drain too.   It's one possibility."""""" Lyra said

Well its probabably because im a mouth haha and i get most of  my energy from talking .  My astrology report said that i get my energy from communicating (gemini)  and when i am forced to be quite i turn into Dr. Jekly and Mr . Hyde smile     I found that to be very true.

As to your comments about castaneda books .... Do you believe Don Juan Matus was a real person?  The C's Says Don Juan Matus was in fact a real person and Castaneda wrote a historical account of what happened....

You mention he has different endings to the same events . Maybe he just that for the books.. just to give each book a good ending..

  • Registered: 2005-10-11

Re: Castaneda, before and after?

I advise this
Read " The Sorcerers Apprentice " by Amy Wallace....
Then Read all the Toltec books by Merilyn Tunneshende.
I don't think this discounts the level of what Carlos brought in. His books are profound. I have made a study of them over time, which is not yet complete. I have read the original series thru the art of dreaming about hmm... 17 times. Recall that Don Juan says on quite a number of occaisions that Carlos had a mood that was dangerously akin to that of the " Old Seers."
What Merilyn did not handle very well at all is the way she alluded to Carlo Castillo and Carlo Castano in her writings. It was very poorly handled indeed, BUT I think we begin to see from these examples how Carlos fell out of favor with the Naguals company by his inability to handle his attachments and his ego. This is the current state of my theory on the matter. The genuis of his commuication thru that material still stands.

StarCat