Topic: In Doubt!

For the pass few days I have been having second thoughts about some of the concepts I believe in and would like to share them with you.  I would like to read about your position on the matter and how it is justified and will thank you ahead of time.  Let me explain.  Yesterday I posted the following on neomatrix post “This post may get me in trouble” .

Let us remember that we are all here for different reasons.  Long time ago before we were born we agreed to follow a certain path to experience a specific set of events.  Some of us were born to be spiritual leaders.  Some of us came to be revolutionary leaders and rebels.  Some of us incarnated to die for a cause we deemed “just�  for human kind.  And some of us are here to be manipulated and die for The Powers That Be.  We can beat this dead horse and argue which is the most proper action to take but is futile for it was all written and agreed on long time ago.

The emphasis (bold blue) is where the problem lays.  After I posted I read and reread my post and just could not resonate or agree with it 100%.  I am having doubts on the concept that we come here with a predefined path not to be deviated from.  Perhaps a few variations here and there but ultimately the outcome will always be the same in order to fulfill our pre-birth agreement.    If you think and examine my comments the implications are tremendous.  It really implies that the only significant “free will”  decision I have made occurred before birth when I chose the experience.  I am beginning to think this concept sucks because it leaves me with absolutely nothing of significant impact to be decided while in the physical body.  It fuc*%#ng  sucks! 

What if I have the chance to change the experience?  What if I chose a path completely different to the one agreed on before birth?  I could choose a more enlightening path or could choose a living hell………But, the choice happens in real “time” .   It certainly makes this existence a little more interesting because by exercising a certain amount of “free will”  I can move to a higher level of consciousness or drop to the bottom of the bucket missing the entire experience in either case.  Yet, it was my choice and ultimately the journey will be completed anyways.

Your thoughts are deeply appreciated!

Regards,

Lee

Re: In Doubt!

WWW, yeah it sucks when you get into the *what ifs*.  I was reading Steve Gamble at https://www.equilibra.uk.com/shop8.shtml , and he talks about how the plane of existence that most people go to when they die is just a false mock-up, that karma and reincarnation is false info given to us to keep us incarnating back on this planet in this dimention. So that got me thinking...if that were true, then the pre-determined path that I was to follow after incarnating here would have been decided under false information...so does that mean that I DID deviate and thats where I am now, or am I still on the pre-agreement path?   I just think its all so damn UNFAIR!!!!   Its those *what ifs* that keep throwing me off.  Im one of those people that just hates being unprepared, I like to know what Im up against . Im sorry this probably didnt help you....

In man's analysis and understanding of himself, it is as well to know from whence he came as whither he is going.   Edgar Cayce

Beliefs are tools for social conditioning, rather than expressions of inner realization or inner truth.   unknown
Ad Verecundiam

3 (edited by whywhywhy 2006-04-14 07:30:45)

Re: In Doubt!

treehugger wrote:

Im one of those people that just hates being unprepared, I like to know what Im up against . Im sorry this probably didnt help you....

Hi treehugger!

Thanks for your comments they were most refreshing!  You were candid enough to share your thoughts concerning the same issue.  I surely looks like I am flip-flopping but the truth is "I am in doubt about this whole incarnation process".  Perhaps other NR members can shine some light on this subject.  Yet I am forced to conclude the following for lack of information and/or faith:

"Not knowing what awaits for me on the other side, if there is such a thing, I must prepare to live this life as it was the only and/or the last one.  I must do what I deemed right and follow my heart and instinct on every endeavor I face in this world.  I will not hurt others intentionally and will do my best to improve my human condition as well as others when the opportunity arises.  I will continue to search for knowledge for I consider knowledge is "Power".  The more "Power" I have the more capable I will be to discern what is right for me.  This is all I can do. Amen"

Regards,

Lee

Re: In Doubt!

We can never truly know if and what we agreed to before birth; just as we can never truly know whether or not everything is already laid out for us.  But maybe it doesn't really matter either way.

What if we just live life to its fullest potential?  Live life as though we can affect the now and that we can create our own paths?  We make our choices as we go along – and yes to a greater or lesser extent many of those choices can be influenced by what came before this moment - in whatever context you choose to look at that.  But that needn’t cause us to be dragged away from our present moment, or stop us from taking control over our life.

Way I see it - believing in a pre-planned life is extremely disempowering.  And even if it is all pre-planned, why would we have to live as though it is?  I feel giving in to such an idea is an excuse to hand away your personal power – yes, even if that power is a fleeting illusion.

Everything I have seen in life indicates to me that those who live an unconscious unaware existence simply get dragged along in the stream of what is occurring around them – quite often they feel life has control over them.  Where as those that come to consciousness and awareness, who live from extreme presence, take a degree of control over their destiny.  They shape their lives according to where they want to go.  Whether they make it or not isn't really relevant - it's the shear power they put into their journey that I always find awe-inspiring.

If there was any pre-life agreement, perhaps it was that we will have free choice whether or not to use our free-will – and all which that would entail.

People often tend to talk about what they “believe" , as opposed to what they feel.  A belief is an idea that we needn’t hold onto.  If something is true then it doesn’t require our belief.  If you find your belief wavering, then you are already starting to seek your own answers.  But that means you have to step out into the unknown – where you have to feel and observe.  That is far harder, yet far more fulfilling then simply “believing" .

Re: In Doubt!

If you've had children, would you have allowed them to make all their decisions on their own? If all they wanted was to eat candy, would you have allowed that? If they did something wrong, would you have not corrected their behavior, instead of allowing them to continue along that path? Obviously this pertains to parents whose children have not, by their own sheer willpower, "run away". Their children "conceded" to this rearing by allowing it.

One of our greatest fallbacks is to think of ourselves as not children. Physically, yes, we are adults. But spiritually we are still in the development stage. I equate myself with the child mentality all too often. I struggle with my position in life. This has a lot to do with ego, with which I struggle constantly. "Don't I know what's the best for me? Shouldn't I be allowed to do whatever I want?" Obviously, no. I have not the omniscience nor the wisdom to do so.

Lee, I consider you one of the most wise and mature people on this forum. The quote below confirms it. Regardless of the intensity of your frustration, the truth of your heart comes out.

whywhywhy wrote:

"Not knowing what awaits for me on the other side, if there is such a thing, I must prepare to live this life as it was the only and/or the last one.  I must do what I deemed right and follow my heart and instinct on every endeavor I face in this world.  I will not hurt others intentionally and will do my best to improve my human condition as well as others when the opportunity arises.  I will continue to search for knowledge for I consider knowledge is "Power".  The more "Power" I have the more capable I will be to discern what is right for me.  This is all I can do. Amen"

Magis Amica Veritas

I would rather control myself, than someone else.

en courage (heart)
in spire (spirit)
en thuse (theos)

6 (edited by Pamelajean 2006-04-14 09:34:53)

Re: In Doubt!

Oops!

Re: In Doubt!

whywhywhy wrote:

It really implies that the only significant "free will"  decision I have made occurred before birth when I chose the experience.  I am beginning to think this concept sucks because it leaves me with absolutely nothing of significant impact to be decided while in the physical body.  It fuc*%#ng  sucks!

I've wrestled with this issue as well. One sticking point might be viewing destiny from the linear time perspective where the future is a consequence of a set past. From that perspective our being born with destiny implies that the rest of our lives must be the undeviating unfolding of that destiny, like the trajectory of a stone being fated the moment it is thrown.

Another way to view destiny is that it's merely the orchestrations of your higher self employing its higher freewill from outside linear time. Your destiny may then change in accordance with your experiential needs, but since it affects past-present-future as a whole you may perceive the new destiny as the one that always was.

Then it is not a denial of your freewill so much as the lower part of your total freewill being unable to block the higher part. The higher part would be like the parent, as Lemniscate illustrated, and the lower part like the child. As a whole, you have all the freewill you need, but just as entering into contracts forces you to honor them later, so would a decision made outside linear time seemingly force you to conform to circumstances beyond your control while here.

In other words, your decisions may indeed be important if what you choose "down here" affects what you then choose "up there" -- somewhat like a student's choice influencing the teacher's choice of adjustments to the curriculum. If this idea holds water, then  1) you do have freewill, 2) what you choose does matter, and 3) you may still experience periodic orchestration of your experiences to advance the plot.

Might be like a choose-your-own-adventure book ... although you didn't actually write each scene, your choice is very important in deciding the final plot.

Acquiring fringe knowledge is like digging for diamonds in a mine field.

8 (edited by PleiadianHealer 2006-04-14 12:53:05)

Re: In Doubt!

whywhywhy wrote:

I am beginning to think this concept sucks because it leaves me with absolutely nothing of significant impact to be decided while in the physical body.  It fuc*%#ng  sucks!

Sometimes in order to get our attention our Higher-Selves lead us down a dead end.   This is not to say that our HS's are misleading us, but it's more like a tap on the shoulder.   When you reach a point where everything seems to stop and you can figure out what to do or where to go, the only thing left is to go within.

Rather than ask for outward answers to this question you have, ask for inner ones.  Your HS is very easy to perceive, but you have to start somewhere.    Usually a tough question like this is a good starting place because you really want a good answer. 

All you need to do is say something like "Higher-Self, please show me a solution to this problem (state the problem), please help to to easily understand how this all falls together".

If you say that once a day, coincidences will happen, maybe even instantly, that will lead you to a fantastic answer, provided you stay aware enough to see it.

Re: In Doubt!

... so could this mean that someone like Hitler made a pre-birth agreement to do what he did ? If it was not in his agreement, his HS would have tapped on his shoulder forcefully, i would think, because of so many human lives involved with him... ??

"I've had a traumatic youth.
My father drank.


And my mother ate."                                       

Kama

10

Re: In Doubt!

pocketable-L,
You would be surprized how many people ignore all the little taps on the shoulder from their HS's.   They do this throughout their whole lives.   Never raising their awareness to the point of even thinking there might be a Higher-Self.   

I don't have all the answers here, when it comes to our HS or our destinies.    The thing I wish to get across is that worth the trouble to begin the movement in the direction of merging or become more aware of this higher part of us.   And if there's one being that can give you great answers on your own destiny, this is obviously our HS's.

Re: In Doubt!

Note:

Empowered Destiny

Here:

http://forum.noblerealms.org/viewtopic.php?id=2139

There is a light … sometimes clarifying, sometimes exposing … there is a light. Flourishing with the vision of spirit and the dream of soul, this flickering light spirals, lifting and leaping. There is a light, expanding, revealing. Celebrating, there is a light. In a delicate moment that could otherwise be lost, this is the light of transcendence … spiraling transcendence. Come let us join together to capture this light. Then let us harness and direct that light … spiraling, lifting. Then we can set it free, releasing it into your world. Come. Let us love together to make magic and to make love for your world.

– Lazaris

WE are Caterpillars - Doing what WE were Designed to do: Transmute > Transform > Transcend - And an Intimate aspect of that Design is Individual Choice.

In The Spiral, WE Oscillate as the polarities move through US:

One moment WE Feel at the affect of.......

The next, like the quote in # 3, which is the Essence of Empowered Destiny.

The Ancients have Harvested one of these especially for YOU - Take one and call YOUR Higher Self in the Morning.

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b321/siriarc/LightninginaBottle2.jpg

11   23   11

Re: In Doubt!

Wow!

Thank you so much for your inputs.  I was not expecting this kind of response, but what do I know?  It is time to look within and ask the questions that have brought me to this point.  The answers are there waiting for me......... I just got to look deep and with conviction. 

Lemmni,

Thanks for your remarks but I am just as wise as Joe Piscopo and Danny de Vito on "Wise Guys".  Yikes!

Regards and Light to all of you,

Lee

Re: In Doubt!

whywhywhy wrote:

Lemmni,

Thanks for your remarks but I am just as wise as Joe Piscopo and Danny de Vito on "Wise Guys".  Yikes!

Regards and Light to all of you,

Lee

Humility is the ultimate wisdom.

Magis Amica Veritas

I would rather control myself, than someone else.

en courage (heart)
in spire (spirit)
en thuse (theos)

Re: In Doubt!

I've always had a deep conviction regarding freewill.  And I've always felt destiny.  Somehow I've managed to juggle these two polar concepts without major incident.

Total predestiny seems to contradict too many metaphysical truths without explanatory backpedaling or rationalizations. 

For instance, if all is totally predestined, then what is the use of the law of resonance?  (Like attracts like).  Why would a completely controlled universe need souls to attract or repel each other?  Why not simply arrange the pieces so that the right souls come into contact with each other and fulfill their scripts through proximity?   

Also, if you accept that evolution is a journey towards Oneness, then why does the Universe predestine so many souls to miss the onramp to Oneness?  ...You can argue, Well, She works in mysterious ways; maybe that guy's path towards Oneness is--somehow--through being a psychopath rapist, etc. etc.  But that's backpedaling; that's inventing an explanation to fit both your personal belief and the facts instead of re-examining your beliefs.

Of course, I don't know any of this for sure.  But these are my feelings.

You can't change a tiger's stripes,
but you can avoid its teeth.

Re: In Doubt!

I had a "sensitive" who talks to her guides tell me recently that while some of us have a wide range of free-will choices we can make, others of us (talking about me) have a set destiny to fulfill.  The way she put it was something like "you bite down hard on the idea of free will and won't let go."

Some say the world will end in fire,
Some say in ice.
From what I've tasted of desire
I hold with those who favor fire.
But if it had to perish twice,
I think I know enough of hate
To say that for destruction ice
Is also great and would suffice.  ~Robert Frost