1 (edited by whywhywhy 2006-04-06 04:59:20)

Topic: Magnetism and Endless Source of Electricity

When you pass current through a wire which is coiled around a material that can be magnetized you create a magnet.  The magnetic flux (the flux indicates the strength of the field) is then quantified or determined by the voltage applied which in turn is a function of the current flow and resistance of the wire (I am simplifying things for the sake of the argument).  The direction of the magnetic field is determined by the direction of the flow of current (clockwise or counterclockwise) through the electron conducting wire.  In a few words, a magnetic field can be created by applying current in a particular direction unto a piece of material that can be magnetized. Thus, the presence of a magnetic field implies the existence of electron flow perpendicular to the magnetic field.

Now, where is the current (flow of electrons, ions) coming from and going to necessary to create the Earth’s magnetic field?  I have trouble believing that it is all generated by the rotating molten iron in the core of the planet.  The ionosphere (Approx. 35 miles up in the atmosphere) is rich in ions and what we call plasma.  Lots of loose electrons and positively charged atoms are a very good source of electrical energy in terms of electron flow.    There has to be a connection between the planet’s magnetic field, the molten iron, the ionosphere and the ether.  Furthermore, since the magnetic field does exist what is exactly the mechanism that drives the flow of electrons?  And finally, if the mechanism was known and the path determined can we tapped into this source and drive motors and equipment without the use of fuel generated electricity?  I think the answer to these questions are not complicated and are already known.

Regards,

Lee

Re: Magnetism and Endless Source of Electricity

Sorry, I thought I was in the physics and science section when I created this thread.

Regards,

Lee

Re: Magnetism and Endless Source of Electricity

No worries, I moved the topic to its corresponding section.

Interesting question, how earth's magnetic field is generated and whether its source can be tapped for energy. With earth's north pole technically being the south pole of a magnet, the electron flow to establish this field must circulate west to east, same direction the earth rotates. So could it have anything to do with planetary rotation? Perhaps, but only partly.

There is a definite correlation between the magnetic moment of a solar system object and its mass and rotational period. For instance, Sun and Jupiter are huge and rotate very quickly, and their magnetic fields are pretty intense. Venus is near the size of Earth but rotates 245 slower, and its magnetic field is 1/1000th.

But since the rotational and magnetic axes are rarely aligned, one cannot be the complete cause of the other. The magnetic field must be due to some combination of permanent magnetism, circulating currents, and maybe even the rotation of large gravity fields. Permanent magnetism comes from magnetically imprinted sections of crust. Circulating currents could come from the rotating core, the ionosphere as you suggested, or the ions in earth's molten mantle creating a field as the planet rotates.

Even if the magnetic field comes from a current flow, what drives that flow to begin with? What keeps the earth's field, heat, and rotation going for these past 4 billion years? The dynamo theory says a magnetic field induces currents that produce magnetic fields reinforcing the field that originally generated them, thus it's a self-sustaining system. Yeah right, that's a perpetual motion machine. There has to be some internal source of energy, and I'm guessing it's something at the very core, some dimensional window producing free energy. Now if that can be tapped, or replicated on a tabletop scale, that would be something.

Otherwise, yes, tapping the current flow would more than satisfy our needs. There is a huge voltage between ionosphere and ground, and some people have thought up the idea to insert a conductor between and thereby get energy. James McCanney (electric universe and cometary cataclysm researcher) wrote about firing a laser into the ionosphere to create a conductive path, like permanent lightning to produce power. Perhaps a weather balloon on a conductive wire would do something, but lightning frying it out would be the biggest risk.

Acquiring fringe knowledge is like digging for diamonds in a mine field.

Re: Magnetism and Endless Source of Electricity

montalk wrote:

Interesting question, how earth's magnetic field is generated and whether its source can be tapped for energy. With earth's north pole technically being the south pole of a magnet, the electron flow to establish this field must circulate west to east, same direction the earth rotates. So could it have anything to do with planetary rotation? Perhaps, but only partly.

There is a definite correlation between the magnetic moment of a solar system object and its mass and rotational period. For instance, Sun and Jupiter are huge and rotate very quickly, and their magnetic fields are pretty intense. Venus is near the size of Earth but rotates 245 slower, and its magnetic field is 1/1000th.

Imagine the ionosphere rotating west to east at a slower rate than the planet due to frictional forces between particles traveling in the same direction.  Yet, imagine a single electron colliding with an atom and displacing an electron from the nucleus of the atom.  This newly displaced electron will in turn displace another electron from another atom and the process gets repeated endless number of times.  This flow of electrons from west to east could be significant enough to make a contribution to the overall magnetic field of the planet.  But, as you said there are more than one factor contributing to Earth’s magnetic field.

montalk wrote:

Even if the magnetic field comes from a current flow, what drives that flow to begin with? What keeps the earth's field, heat, and rotation going for these past 4 billion years? The dynamo theory says a magnetic field induces currents that produce magnetic fields reinforcing the field that originally generated them, thus it's a self-sustaining system. Yeah right, that's a perpetual motion machine. There has to be some internal source of energy, and I'm guessing it's something at the very core, some dimensional window producing free energy. Now if that can be tapped, or replicated on a tabletop scale, that would be something.

Yes, what is the driving force?  I think plasma, zero energy, ether & dimensional windows are the final pieces to the puzzle.  I also think that Tesla discover the answer during his Colorado Springs experiments in the early 1900’s.  Perhaps if one studies whatever information is available about these experiments in conjunction with Walter Russell Vortex theories the answer may show its face once again.

Regards,

Lee

Re: Magnetism and Endless Source of Electricity

whywhywhy wrote:

Now, where is the current (flow of electrons, ions)...

Electrons are sub-atomic particles of negative charge; ions are atoms of negative charge. Current is a flow of charges, not a flow of electrons. When you turn on your hairdryer, do you think the particles are moving from the outlet, up the cord, and then turning into heat(energy)?

An excellent explanation of why everything you have been taught (programmed by the Matrix) about "electricity" is wrong is here.

whywhywhy wrote:

...coming from and going to necessary to create the Earth’s magnetic field?

The Electric Universe model helps us understand this (since a flow of electrical energy creates a magnetic field).

Montalk wrote:

Even if the magnetic field comes from a current flow, what drives that flow to begin with?

Matter is never created or destroyed; since energy is a property of matter (the capacity to do work, or the capacity of a system to change state), it is never created or destroyed.

Montalk wrote:

There has to be some internal source of energy...

"has to be" is not the wiling-ness to find out what the truth is no matter what it turns out to be. The value of the scientific method is without limit; it just has to be applied to everything. Abandoning the scientific method is abandoning reality - the counterfeit path of the Archons.

We are all Kosh.

Re: Magnetism and Endless Source of Electricity

Jeffrey wrote:

Electrons are sub-atomic particles of negative charge; ions are atoms of negative charge. Current is a flow of charges, not a flow of electrons.

Then a flow of negative charges - electrons - would constitute a negative current. Electrons and ions can both form currents. Electrons drift through a wire very slowly, and this is what creates the magnetic field around a wire. Likewise, a plasma flowing through a pipe also represents a current that establishes a magnetic field. Current is only defined by how much net charge passes by a point during a certain interval of time. Whether that net charge consists of just electrons or ions doesn't matter, 1 Coulomb of charge per second = 1 Amp. Like a pound of feathers versus a pound of lead, both weigh the same. What Lee was pondering is whether ionic current flows in the ionosphere could contribute to the geomagnetic field.

Jeffrey wrote:

"has to be" is not the wiling-ness to find out what the truth is no matter what it turns out to be.

I guess "has to be" implies different things to different people. It's more in the style of scientism, the orthodox scientific community, to discard experimental data that contradicts the status quo. To the contrary, for me "has to be" points towards a testable hypothesis formulated from a given set of assumptions and reasoning. If I lose my keys and assume only three spots where they could be, but fail to find them in the first two spots, I can formulate a reasonable hypothesis that the keys have to be at the third spot. So I test this hypothesis by taking a look, and if they are still missing, my hypothesis has failed. A revised experiment would then require taking into account prior data, expanding my assumptions, and improving my reasoning. Hypothesis is the "best guess" that is to be empirically tested. That the earth has an internal source of energy is my best guess. Further data would either support or contradict this guess, and I would not irrationally reject data that contradicts it. 

Lee wrote:

Yes, what is the driving force?  I think plasma, zero energy, ether & dimensional windows are the final pieces to the puzzle.  I also think that Tesla discover the answer during his Colorado Springs experiments in the early 1900’s.  Perhaps if one studies whatever information is available about these experiments in conjunction with Walter Russell Vortex theories the answer may show its face once again.

I have a digital copy of Tesla's Colorado Springs notes if you (or anyone reading this) are interested, just email me with a request.  So plasmas, vortices, zero point energy, ether, and dimensional windows... garnish with parsley and it would make a fine dish! But seriously, I share your hunch about these being essential ingredients. Plasmas - highly mobile charged gas, good for creating nonlinear fields, Vortices - converging flow around a null point, good for creating a local singularity, ZPE - tremendous energy flux that needs only to be biased away from statistical canceling to tap into, Ether - the substrate to be manipulated by those nonlinear fields, and Dimensional Window - the entry point of energy from beyond our dimension pried open by a critical stress in the ether.

As far as I can tell, gravity corresponds to compression or rarefaction in the ether beyond the universal ambient levels. The centers of stars and planets have sufficient ether stress to pry open that dimensional window, which is why I suggested that earth - or the Sun at least - must have an internal energy source beyond the more mundane causes. And I think this can be replicated in the lab using those ingredients you listed. Not  just with vortices, but other methods of stressing the ether  - rapid current convergence, rotating magnetic fields, electromagnetic standing waves whose electric or magnetic components are cancelled out, and so on. Now we just need a hundred grand and some body guards to test this hypothesis, haha.

Jeffrey wrote:

The Electric Universe model helps us understand this (since a flow of electrical energy creates a magnetic field).

No kidding, that model shows just how backwards and ignorant the main thrust of "standard science" truly is. I've been following James McCanney's work for a while, along the lines of Velikovsky and the Thunderbolts site, and it's tragic that something making this much sense gets so much resistance.

Acquiring fringe knowledge is like digging for diamonds in a mine field.

Re: Magnetism and Endless Source of Electricity

Jeffrey of Troy wrote:
whywhywhy wrote:

Now, where is the current (flow of electrons, ions)...

Electrons are sub-atomic particles of negative charge; ions are atoms of negative charge. Current is a flow of charges, not a flow of electrons. When you turn on your hairdryer, do you think the particles are moving from the outlet, up the cord, and then turning into heat(energy)?

Hi Jefrey of Troy!

Thanks for your input.  Hmmm, you stated current is a flow of charges and not a flow of electrons.  By what mechanism then the charge flows if not by the movement of electrons from one atom to the next?   There has to be a carrier for a net charge flow to occur on a given direction in space.  How would the charge move without a carrier?  Take an atom that is electrically balance (number of electrons = number of protons).  How would you move a charge through it if not by disturbing the electrical balance of the charge particles of the system, namely the atom? 

Consider a rotating magnet and a wire coil around it connected to a voltmeter.  If you consider the entire coil (excluding the magnet) and the voltmeter as a system there is no net change in charge.  But, if you consider a segment of the wire (let's choose the section at the voltmeter where current is being measured) a definite amount of current can be measured.  Why is this so?  The rotating magnet somehow imparts enough energy to the atoms of the wire to make one of the electrons in the outer orbital jump out turning it into a free moving electron.  This electron in turn collides with an electron in another atom dislocating that electron from its orbital and so on and so on (think of musical chairs).  As far as the coil and the voltmeter goes as a system there is no addition of charges (whether electrons or protons) just enough energy to free up electrons that in turn create a current flow through the process of atomic collisions.

I honestly would love to hear your explanation of charge flow.  I keep my mind open and receptive as long as the explanation makes sense to me.

Finally, the point I was trying to make earlier was if there was a possibility the ionosphere current flow was a contributor to the geomagnetic field. 

Regards,

Lee

Re: Magnetism and Endless Source of Electricity

montalk wrote:

Otherwise, yes, tapping the current flow would more than satisfy our needs. There is a huge voltage between ionosphere and ground, and some people have thought up the idea to insert a conductor between and thereby get energy. James McCanney (electric universe and cometary cataclysm researcher) wrote about firing a laser into the ionosphere to create a conductive path, like permanent lightning to produce power. Perhaps a weather balloon on a conductive wire would do something, but lightning frying it out would be the biggest risk.

Wasn't it Telsa that came up with the idea of putting a large insulated conducting plate at some distance in the air (say with a large tower) and then connecting this to the ground in some fashion?  I believe this was one of his electrical generation patents. 

I've often thought Tesla's idea was sound, although I question how much electrical power this method would yield?  Perhaps one could put a panel on their rooftop and have enough to power a small lightbulb, but certainly nothing adequte for today's power needs.  I'd still like to test this idea at some point just to see if it actually collects electrical energy similar to a solar panel.  It might make a good/interesting "poor man's" solar panel.  It still seems like there should be an easier way.  What you're refering to with hot air balloons and laser sounds like it would probably work on a much larger scale, but then considerations of atmospheric conditions might be an issue to deal with.

Yesterday I was going over some of the C's and I came across this text which caught my attention:


08.17.96
Q: (L) All right, let's get on to our questions here. Let me ask about the tetrahedron. Terry, you ask it, because you know more about it. (T) The Tetrahedron, triangle mathematics that Hoagland is working with in conjunction with the Mars/Cydonia region where he supposedly discovered this...
A: Energy consolidator. EM Wave capturer.
Q: (T) Ok, so it’s an EM wave capturer. Does it also emit EM waves?
A: Close. Channels and enhances, when used properly, and in pristine conditions.
Q: (T) Hoagland is not talking about... whatever he's talking about, as far as the mathematics go, of the tetrahedral triangles within the sphere, which I'm assuming this planet is calling the sacred geometries, but are physics-type things of different densities, which may not actually be right. OK, this doesn't apply just to Mars, this is, every sphere has these same properties...
A: Yes.
Q: (T)... a golfball, a base ball; I know they're not perfect spheres, they have dimples; all the way up to the sun, and so forth and so on, of any size, made out of any material, as long as it's a sphere, it will have the same properties.
A: No. Must be magnetized.
Q: (T) OK, it's a magnetized sphere; something that has a magnetic field around it.
A: Yes.
Q: (L) Is the tetrahedral configuration a property of the magnetism?
A: No.
Q: (T) OK, my question is, the sphere has to be able to generate a magnetic field, like the earth has a magnetic field, like Mars generates a magnetic field...
A: Or be magnetized by installation of internal magnetic generator.
Q: (L) OK, what's the purpose of this? What's the purpose of these tetrahedrons? What are the...
A: Purpose is not proper term. It is a reflection of universal balance.
Q: (L) OK, well, this guy J__ says that they are designated by different monuments on the planet's surface...
A: Nonsense!!! Artificial constructed tetrahedrons are placed on strategic locations on the planet's surface in order to utilize magnetic fields properly.
Q: (L) Who places these artificially constructed tetrahedrons at these points?
A: The artificial constructors.
Q: (L) And who are they?
A: Whomever they may be. Nineteen degrees north and south.
Q: (T) Those are the numbers that Hoagland came up with, with his stuff. On most of the planets, and our sun, we seem to have major events happening, or have happened...
A: Hawaii.
Q: (T) Yes, Hawaii, Puerto Rico... let's see, 19 degrees north and south, Phillipines, I think, is somewhere close, on the south side. Major volcanos... (F) Phillipines is on the north side, that's not in the Southern Hemisphere... (T) I'd have to pull out a global map to see what the 19 degrees are. On Mars, Cydonia resides at approximately 19 degrees, the Giant volcano, the dead volcano on Mars is approximately 19 degrees, the stuff that they found on Venus, the major things, are at approximately 19 degrees. The sunspots are approximately 19 degrees, the red spot on Jupiter... (L) Do the tetrahedrons spin within the sphere? Do these power points of the tetrahedron spin?
A: Energy fields flow in balalnce.
Q: (T) Is there... now, am I correct in the fact that there's a direct relationship here to the real Hebrew Star of David, to these tetrahedrals?
A: Yes.
Q: (T) Yes. So that that symbol is not a religious symbol, as such, but a very important... (L)...power symbol.
A: Yes. So is pentagon.
Q: (T) So is the Pentagon? These are part of what humans describe as the sacred geometries.
A: Yes. You as Atlanteans knew this, and lived by it in many ways. For example, the pyramid recharges by capturing exactly half the energy points, thus allowing a positive imbalance buildup to be captured, then expended.

The last line that talks about how the pyramid structure allows for a "positive imbalance buildup to be captured, then expended" caught my attention.  This I assume is regarding the tetrahedron EM energy form that surrounds this planet and others.  Something regarding this idea of pyramids being the relics of ancient EM power collectors seems to resonate.  Using pyramids or other monolithic geometric structures around these areas at 19 degrees north/south might be one of the ideal ways of generating EM power for on-planet purposes. 

Ryan

Doc: Marty, you're not thinking fourth dimensionally!
Marty McFly: Yeah, I know, I got a real problem with that.

Re: Magnetism and Endless Source of Electricity

Montalk wrote:

Then a flow of negative charges - electrons - would constitute a negative current.

Electrons are particles, not charges.

whywhywhy wrote:

I honestly would love to hear your explanation of charge flow.

E does = mc squared, but the m is mass not matter. Mass and energy are 2 different manifestations of the same property of matter. At no point is matter "converted to" energy, or energy "converted to" matter. Matter is not "condensed energy". When you drive your car, you can feel the mass shifting around; do you think the actual particles are moving from 1 part of the car to another? Do you think electrons flow along power lines, into your house, out of the outlet, into your toaster, and then the physical particles "become" heat (energy)? What is "electricity"?

The electron cloud is the medium which is disturbed to transfer energy from 1 location to another. The flow of charges - which is much faster than the flow of electrons - is what transfers the "electricity" (electrical energy) from the power station to your computer. The electrons' movement is incidental, like if you are floating in an inner tube and a wave of water comes along and moves you a few feet.

Think of the tsunami in Indonesia: the water (particles) being pushed by the energy.

I did a lot of "thinking with a hammer" about physics, and put the results in 3 articles that might give you something to think about.

Montalk wrote:

That the earth has an internal source of energy is my best guess.

I don't know where the energy comes from; I think we must have an attitude of "finding out", rather than "deciding".

There is a program of The Matrix that says, "The scientific method has value for physical reality, but it can't tell us how to be more spiritual." Lines from that script include (but are not limited to) "has to be", "must be", "must have been", and "could not have been".

whywhywhy wrote:

There has to be a carrier for a net charge flow to occur on a given direction in space.

There's that program again.

We are all Kosh.

Re: Magnetism and Endless Source of Electricity

Jeffrey of Troy wrote:
Montalk wrote:

Then a flow of negative charges - electrons - would constitute a negative current.

Electrons are particles, not charges.

Jeffrey,
you are being picky on the comment above.  Montalk knows an electron is a particle.  To be more exact than your comment an electron is a negatively charged particle.

Jeffrey of Troy wrote:
whywhywhy wrote:

I honestly would love to hear your explanation of charge flow.

E does = mc squared, but the m is mass not matter. Mass and energy are 2 different manifestations of the same property of matter. At no point is matter "converted to" energy, or energy "converted to" matter. Matter is not "condensed energy". When you drive your car, you can feel the mass shifting around; do you think the actual particles are moving from 1 part of the car to another? Do you think electrons flow along power lines, into your house, out of the outlet, into your toaster, and then the physical particles "become" heat (energy)? What is "electricity"?

The electron cloud is the medium which is disturbed to transfer energy from 1 location to another. The flow of charges - which is much faster than the flow of electrons - is what transfers the "electricity" (electrical energy) from the power station to your computer. The electrons' movement is incidental, like if you are floating in an inner tube and a wave of water comes along and moves you a few feet.

Think of the tsunami in Indonesia: the water (particles) being pushed by the energy.

Now, that's talking from both sides of the mouth.  You say that electricity is the movement of charges (transfer of energy) caused by disturbances in the electron cloud and not the movement of electrons (mass) from one atom to the other.  Yet, you state that E=MC2.  Energy is equal to a mass traveling at the speed of light squared.  That implies that in order to transfer energy or do work mass must be moved.  In the case of electricity what mass is been moved for the transfer of energy to occur, namely electricity?  I am still open to new ideas but you need to be more specific when making a claim.

Jeffrey of Troy wrote:

I did a lot of "thinking with a hammer" about physics, and put the results in 3 articles that might give you something to think about.

Very interesting articles.  Thanks for sharing.

Regards,

Lee

11 (edited by montalk 2006-04-09 17:21:36)

Re: Magnetism and Endless Source of Electricity

Jeffrey wrote:

Electrons are particles, not charges.

Electrons are charged particles. When an electron moves, its negative charge moves with it. A flow of electrons therefore equates to a flow of charges. Since a flow of charges constitutes a current, a flow of electrons also constitutes a current. Or else find an example of charge movement without particle movement. Physical laws require semantics to express in words, but those laws remain independent of changes in semantics.

Acquiring fringe knowledge is like digging for diamonds in a mine field.

Re: Magnetism and Endless Source of Electricity

Here is something that has baffled me for quite some time.  We know how to make a magnet utilizing electricity and a paramagnetic element or compound such as iron and some special ceramics.  But, what about a permanent magnet?  Where is the energy source coming from that substain the magnetic field?  What other process other than current flow is keeping this magnetic field going?  How are these paramagnetic substances aligning the uneven number of electrons in the last orbital and hold them in position without the application of electricity (or at least that's the way it seems!)?

Regards,

Lee

13 (edited by montalk 2006-04-09 17:54:23)

Re: Magnetism and Endless Source of Electricity

Lee, according to what I was taught, a permanent magnet derives its field from the electrons whose perpetual orbiting motion about the nucleus creates a magnetic field similar to how current circulating around a hoop of wire does. The electrons themselves have spin, which produces an additional magnetic field. Since electrons in filled orbital shells are paired with opposite spin, their fields cancel. Magnetic materials therefore have atoms with an unpaired outer electron imparting a net magnetic field to the atom due to its spin, in addition to the field produced by the orbit. The orbital and spin magnetic fields then sum together to produce a permanent magnet if a majority of those atoms are polarized in the same direction.

In a wire or electromagnet, energy is only needed to bring the  magnetic field from zero up to some level, and then all further energy is expended on overcoming resistance or friction in the wire. An unchanging magnetic field in itself doesn't use up energy, not anymore than a loaded spring uses it. Magnetic fields are just curls or twists in the ether.

As for what keeps electrons from slowing down or falling into the nucleus, that was explained in quantum mechanics. The explanation had to do with electrons being wave functions instead of little hard spheres, and that a wave symmetric about the nucleus can only take certain shapes much like the standing waves of a plucked string only take certain ratios. So an electron with a given amount of energy stays in its orbit because that is the most stable state for it to be in, at least until it absorbs or loses the right quantity of energy to change to a different orbit. It's like a rotary switch that likes to fall on certain positions.

Still, you will find tons of stuff on the net criticizing these standard physics explanations. I think there's more to it than science claims, but that's for us to find out smile

Acquiring fringe knowledge is like digging for diamonds in a mine field.

14 (edited by monopole 2006-09-09 19:27:31)

Re: Magnetism and Endless Source of Electricity

Montalk said.."The dynamo theory says a magnetic field induces currents that produce magnetic fields reinforcing the field that originally generated them, thus it's a self-sustaining system. Yeah right, that's a perpetual motion machine."
Tesla says....
http://www.stardrivedevice.com/Tesla_notes.html
Ed Leedskalnin says "Geologists do not know what gravitation is, and what causes earthquakes and mountains. Perpetual transformation is going on with this Eart all the time. When the atoms burst in the middle of the Earth, the magnets are running out from the middle, and so cause gravitation by attracting the matter that is in front of them, and when many magnets have come out, then there will be a contraction that will caise earthquakes and mountains" and again.."Gravitation must be caused by the matter in the middle of the Earth, and more concentrated than Uranium.
When Uranium atoms burst they release the North and South pole individual magnets that held the atom together, then the magnets scatter all around, but when atoms burst in the middle of the Earth, and many burst at the same time, they can only run from the middle to the outside......When the North and South pole magnets are running along side each other in the same direction they have no attraction for the other kind.." Ed.L
More of the magnets are coming from the East and are hitting their own kind of magnets that are circulating around the Earth causing motion.....
Here is an example one of my friends made....
http://www.coralcastlecode.com/id28.html
The magnets are the base of everything smile