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Topic: Subliminal Messaging: Fraud or Legit?

Subliminal messages are considered among the majority of people that I know as legit, with having the so-called effect of subconsciously affecting all those present.

With audio, with T.V., with movies, or even with software on your PC, for example one called "Subliminal Power".

Then there's views like this:

Glendon College, York University. Subliminal Self-help Auditory Tapes: An Empirical Test of Perceptual Consequences. wrote:

The January 1991 issue of the University of California, Berkeley, noted that double blind tests have consistently shown that subliminal tapes fail to produce their claimed effects. There is also no evidence that subliminal messages actually affect behavior. In a separate study, Timothy E. Moore showed that subliminal tapes didn't even meet the minimal cirteria for perception. He concluded that it is highly unlikely that they have any effect at all, much less a significant effect on behavior or thought patterns.

So verified studies seem to point to subliminal messages not having true, actual effects. The proof most of subliminal message promoters use is this:

Exerpt from Sublimal-Power.com wrote:

Proof? One highly publicized study by guru Dr James Vicary, involved flashing the phrases "I want popcorn" and "Drink more coke" for just 100-milliseconds in front of a movie audience. Nobody "saw" the messages, but during that sitting popcorn sales shot up 57.8% and coke sales rocketed 18.1%. And that was just with one message.

Yet it is known through the NLP (Neuro-Linguistic Programing) experts that Dr.James Vicary said this was a hoax years after. But perhaps those "experts" that I've consulted are wrong or mislead, and in actuality it does have merit.

Overall, I'm not 100% sure either way. If I had to choose, I would say that subliminal-messages have no effect whatsoever, except for the acknowledgment of the user if he/she is purposely using subliminal-messaging to change characteristics or whatever. In this case, it is more of the person manifesting the results by other means, more along the lines of YCYOR than the subliminal messages actually being the reason.

Anyways, I wanted to post regarding this to see if any here have an opinion.

Re: Subliminal Messaging: Fraud or Legit?

Whether it's subliminal or overt, what's the real message? The first thing here is to discern why you feel you need any more subliminal information than is already inherent in matrix conditioning. Subliminally, when I see a subliminal tape offered, my mind sends me a message, and overtly, this translates, for me, into "Can I trust the people [or other entities] behind this tape? How do I know, since its subliminal, that it doesn't say "Go jump off a bridge?" Seems like a redudant point, but really I think its your belief in subliminal aids that gives them power.

I'm better off taping my own voice and playing it while I'm asleep or doing something else. I don't trust any one else with my subconscious.

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Re: Subliminal Messaging: Fraud or Legit?

SednaSphere wrote:

Seems like a redundant point, but really I think its your belief in subliminal aids that gives them power.

Fair enough. The effects could simply come from manifesting them yourself.

Re: Subliminal Messaging: Fraud or Legit?

I think subliminals mainly affect us when they induce thoughts we take as our own and therefore do not question, which requires that we are unaware of the subliminal to begin wtith (hence the term SUB-liminal).

For example, I accidentally discovered that if I whistle very quietly under my breath, more quietly than others around me in a busy hallway or department store can hear, four times out of five someone around me "gets the good idea" to start whistling as well. It's similar to how yawns are contagious. So if the subliminal "spend money" is broadcast through speakers in a department store, someone may "get the good idea" to spend money, thinking it's his own idea.

Acquiring fringe knowledge is like digging for diamonds in a mine field.

Re: Subliminal Messaging: Fraud or Legit?

I sometimes "hear" a song in my mind, and turn on the radio and the song is playing. I picked it up SUB-liminally.

6 (edited by Torarota 2004-06-23 07:59:44)

Re: Subliminal Messaging: Fraud or Legit?

Montalk wrote:

For example, I accidentally discovered that if I whistle very quietly under my breath, more quietly than others around me in a busy hallway or department store can hear, four times out of five someone around me "gets the good idea" to start whistling as well. It's similar to how yawns are contagious. So if the subliminal "spend money" is broadcast through speakers in a department store, someone may "get the good idea" to spend money, thinking it's his own idea.

This is a very interesting field of study. From the stage-magicians "distracting your attention", to hypnotism, suggestion, altering your body language cues to induce a specific perception (which is actually similar to Toltec "stalking" methods as per Castanedas and Co.).
It has become one of my favourite fields of experimentations since I am one of these people who invariably attracts far too much attention. The belief/experience built by this obviously reinforces itself and generates more similar experiences (in a YCYOR type-of-way). The trick is therefore to neither "feed" the perception of the observer nor your own (if it is a destructive one), or alternatively to distort the individual's perception while maintaining your own.

In terms of suggestion (body language or else) I find that it is only possible to suggest if you are able to access an existing field of data, This could be some archetypal thing or more commonly something out of the common gene-pool or psychological-pool (probably encoded somewhere). The best way is of course to be able to access the individual's own field of consciousness. This can be done either by psychic-empathic perception or relying on clues "volunteered" by the individual.

The whistling trick mentioned also has, of course, a self-fulfilling-YCYOR element since each experience will reinforce the belief (that it works) and therefore will make it work better providing that Mr. Montalk exerts some level of objectivity in the "monitoring" of the effects of the whistling AND remains aware of true-YCYOR Laws (Unbending intent, belief in the process, Understanding of the process, Knowledge of the process, Acknowledgment of the results)

"He simply said: Laianela"

Re: Subliminal Messaging: Fraud or Legit?

Montalk wrote:

For example, I accidentally discovered that if I whistle very quietly under my breath, more quietly than others around me in a busy hallway or department store can hear, four times out of five someone around me "gets the good idea" to start whistling as well.

What is the difference between having 'discovered' a Law of Nature and having a super-power?

INTENDING...Even Understanding it is optional!

"He simply said: Laianela"

Re: Subliminal Messaging: Fraud or Legit?

I found an intereesting image of a poster from London which apparently shows hidden subliminal images which have been revealed using the process described in the article. I won't post the link directly, but if you go to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/
and search for 'Surveillance' you will find an article - there is a poster image on the right which leads to the intereesting article.

What do you think?

"Would it help if I got out and pushed?"

"It might..."

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Re: Subliminal Messaging: Fraud or Legit?

Makes my skin crawl.

I'm fully convinced that we all are being watched from above; not only by earthly beings and not only by benevolent forces either!

Re: Subliminal Messaging: Fraud or Legit?

Legit.
your average brain-entrainment device (light & sound machine) is the externalisation of a hitherto secret science - mastered by the russians in the 30's already.
..if 'alpha' or 'theta' state can be induced - the 'programming' is the elementary part.as the powers that be would know :there are many ways to skin a cat,or, program a human.Pavlov, was'nt it? just more advanced in terms of aplication and ALMOST completly unknown by joe-soap, or glossed over by less enquiring minds.
Sneaky part is the number of ways 'alpha' brain-wave state can be induced.Just plain ol' light can do it (or sound).
...and we thought it was the good 'e' in clubs that whacked you out on the dancefloor  -  but a strobe light can hit you harder.

Accoss the divide.

Re: Subliminal Messaging: Fraud or Legit?

Right, strobing lights do soften up the mind to hypnotic states. Televisions with their 30Hz frame refresh rates and fluorescent lights are the less conspicuous ones.  As for subliminals in printed ads, they still make them. Several years ago there was a cigarette ad in TV Guide with a woman whose hair contained a very clear image of a goat or ram's head, which is typically known to be a subconscious symbol for lust. A couple months ago in a 7/11 there was a gum display box with a big pic of Jessica Simpson, and her hair had the letters "SEX" clearly spelled out in it. I bought the whole damn box before I realized what was going on...just kidding, but the subliminal was there. I think they do it just because they can, and no one can prove it was intentional. ELF waves also work, as do modulated radio/microwave and scalar waves -- but if you are aware of your own mind and fight to stay aware, these things bounce right off.

Acquiring fringe knowledge is like digging for diamonds in a mine field.

Re: Subliminal Messaging: Fraud or Legit?

montalk wrote:

I think they do it just because they can, and no one can prove it was intentional.

Right, but also because it has an effect on your psyche. Subconciously. Just like what Dubya said the other day, "capturing the great spirit of America" - they try to subconciously guide the desires and indeed the very lives of people because they know that anyone's reaction will be to simply scoff!

I am as is Void.

Re: Subliminal Messaging: Fraud or Legit?

SednaSphere wrote:

I sometimes "hear" a song in my mind, and turn on the radio and the song is playing. I picked it up SUB-liminally.

I too have experienced this several times in my life.  I honestly think that there is nothing subliminal about it.  Our brain is like a biological antenna receiving and sending information through the airways (and empty space also!).  We have the capacity of tapping into what is being broadcasted by means of transmitters generating electromagnetic waves and decoding or receiving the message.  We do not spend enough time developing this power which we were born with.  Most of the time when I experience this phenomena my mind is clear and I am not trying to force anything....................It just happens as if it was natural to me.

Re: Subliminal Messaging: Fraud or Legit?

Me, too. Weird, isn't it? I've even thought the fillings in my teeth could have something to do with it. Maybe it's just me, but the clearer my mind, the more I "hear" what's subliminal, because there's not alot of conscious clutter to gunk it up. This is my impression about myself, at least in the particular case of this "song hearing."