Topic: Harmonics, octaves, and vibrations

Recently I've been studying music theory, and while reading other forums and searching Google I've found all sorts of interesting things related to harmonics and octaves.

First of all, I discovered that Pythagoras, the famous Greek mathematician, did a lot of work studying sound and music theory. I've been lead to believe that the ancient mystery schools must have taught much about the nature of vibrations, harmonics, and octaves, since they're so prevalent in the universe. And prevalent might not even be the best word, because these concepts are literally everywhere you look!

Harmonics ARE the nature of the universe, because they explain why certain musical notes sound good together, why certain colors look good together, and even why certain people get along with each other and some don't. And everywhere there's harmonics, you'll find octaves. We have octaves of musical notes, an octave of visible colors, an octave of dimensions as described by several channels, etc.

By the way here's something interesting to think about. The human range of hearing is from 20 to 20,000 Hz. Within this range there's several octaves, which allows us to make music that has overtones. Overtones are notes from two different octaves played at the same time. This is heard very commonly in classical music and gives the music layers and a sort of texture in addition to the texture created by the different timbres of intruments. Our eyesight range, on the other hand, includes only one octave of colors (red through violet). If we were able to see more than octave of color, we'd be able to see overtones of light. This would make our visual sense even more spectacular. However, I believe I read that our eyes are limited to one octave because that is all that can be reflected and/or absorbed in the water that makes up most of visual organs.

Another thing. I stumbled upon this web site, which has all sorts of research done on harmonics at the atomic level. It's basically devoted to John Keely's work. I think that montalk has mentioned Keely before in passing but he hasn't been discussed on NR in any detail. Keely was a 19th century scientist who researched harmonics, sound, atomic resonance, and even free energy. There's some material on that web site that's, how say I shall... questionable, but if nothing else I recommend a look at the page titled "It really is a musical universe" here, the chart of matter and energy octaves here, and Keely's Forty Laws of Sympathetic Vibratory Physics here.

Very very interesting stuff. Keely surmised that the relationships in physics and chemistry between atoms that we know as modern day science depend on the harmonics of the atoms, with each type of atom having a distinct tone or vibration. For example, certain molecules are likely to form from those ions that are most harmonic, much like the musical chords that sound the best are the most harmonious.

There's a periodic table on that site also that matches wave numbers of elements with musical tones, but I found it a bit confusing. So right now I'm trying to find out the basis of how one is supposed to assign tones to the different elements. Maybe someone with a better understanding of physics/chemistry can help me there. I'm also trying to figure out how all the elements would fit into a complete octave, because there seems to be a problem of where the octave would end seeing as the elements seem to go on quite a bit past the last current element that scientists have stabilized enough to observe. I'm thinking that, if all the elements fit into one octave, then there are occurances of, say, hydrogen at higher octaves where it retains its characteristic of "hydrogenness" but has a different pitch. I could be totally off here though. It could be simply that each element in itself is contained within an octave. Not sure. Anyway, please feel free to share your input and opinions.

Re: Harmonics, octaves, and vibrations

Hey there fellow seeker!
                                  I find it criminal in a sense that no-one as yet has responded to your great post! I have a rather large rave to throw at you and the other Nobles in the coming days, haven't much spare time in the now, but you are definitely onto something my friend! My primary focus is sound design/music production, which I was "called" to 15 yrs ago, and I can honestly say that to understand sound, is to understand all...in the beginning was the word...and the word was...SOUND...
                    Stick around, I have much to share with all at this fantastic forum, and am extremely honored to be sharing virtual space with you!

                                                                       AJ

...would the last person to leave please turn out the enlightenment?...

Re: Harmonics, octaves, and vibrations

Hey Seeker,
Sorry about the delay in this post but this is the first time ive seen it!
This is something i read about years ago and it is something i feel in my self that is so strong that this is what our Universe, ourselves and everything that exists is based on! It is something I have been writing about, my thoughts revolve around totally on this subject.
WE are all just a vibration that started from the beginning which has formed into physical being, where we are today. This is very basic of my thoughts but here it goes:
This vibration started from the "Big bang", the explosion and from this Oneness, the first elements formed from which Hydrogen was the first formed element from this explosion. The heat from this explosion fused together to form this first element, Hydrogen. This hydrogen formed the first stars in the Universe (Uni -Verse - meaning "One Song") This Hydrogen then spewed out into the universe and collected together again to then move into its next vibration level, Helium, then the process again was repeated for helium to move into it's next vibratory level which is Lithium, then Berium , Boron, Carbon etc etc.
This is how I see that the spirtual, physical and thought  exisits as one big Harmony.
Sorry to leave this short but I have to finish this cause I have to leave work, but I will post more on this subject and as reason said, YOU are definatley on to somethiing my friend! big_smile

"Life's not meant to be a struggle" Stuart Wilde
We are one and the same on a different path to the same destination

4 (edited by I_like_Athm_too! 2005-02-11 15:04:35)

Re: Harmonics, octaves, and vibrations

Slightly off topic?

In "The Fourth Way", Oupensky mentions how the law of octave is what stops all our wishes to be materialized. If I remember correctly we project "Thought Energy" in a straight line, if we were able to project while taking octaves into account we could materialize things instantly. This sounds too theoretical for me but I am sure someone can make sense of it and apply it. The explanation in the book is lots clearer than my Reader's Digest version, of course!

Re: Harmonics, octaves, and vibrations

I_like_Athm_too! wrote:

Slightly off topic?

I'm Sorry but how was I going off topic!

seeker wrote:

Very very interesting stuff. Keely surmised that the relationships in physics and chemistry between atoms that we know as modern day science depend on the harmonics of the atoms, with each type of atom having a distinct tone or vibration. For example, certain molecules are likely to form from those ions that are most harmonic, much like the musical chords that sound the best are the most harmonious.

There's a periodic table on that site also that matches wave numbers of elements with musical tones, but I found it a bit confusing. So right now I'm trying to find out the basis of how one is supposed to assign tones to the different elements. Maybe someone with a better understanding of physics/chemistry can help me there. I'm also trying to figure out how all the elements would fit into a complete octave, because there seems to be a problem of where the octave would end seeing as the elements seem to go on quite a bit past the last current element that scientists have stabilized enough to observe. I'm thinking that, if all the elements fit into one octave, then there are occurances of, say, hydrogen at higher octaves where it retains its characteristic of "hydrogenness" but has a different pitch.

Sorry, but I may not have made myself clear enough in what I was trying to say and I was in a rush. I do that quite often but it was in relation to how seeker was saying about how atoms vibrate at a certain tone, harmony or frequency.
It is from the beginning, from the explosion that the frequency, vibration originates from , the universe first formed by a certain vibration materializing in to Hydrogen then from Hydrogen, raising the vibration to Helium and so on. Hydrogen is the most simplist material vibration that exisists and makes up everything material.
I was relating to how at certain vibrations, tones form the elements that make us and everything up today. WE are part of that vibration, a vibration which materailized into human form , from the essence, the spirit, the vibration which orginated from that beginning of the big bang.
The "Big bang" happened because of two Parallel Universes colliding together, reacting in a way creating an explosion which formed our universe today.
It's by the vibrations being harmonious and being at certain levels or pitches that form the different types of atoms that makes up everything material. It is the vibration that is the spirit.
We are that spirit energy made up over hundreds if not thousands of life incarnations. We are  from that ONE vibration that started over 15 billion years ago "our time", everything in the universe is that vibration split into different frequencies forming whole multitudes of frequencies vibrating at certain levels, materailizing into its different elements, which different elements combine to form new elements to form the universe. If you understood that smile
The universe/s is just one great big song, in complete harmony, creating everything that exsists.       

Just my thoughts. wink

"Life's not meant to be a struggle" Stuart Wilde
We are one and the same on a different path to the same destination

Re: Harmonics, octaves, and vibrations

I like your thoughts!

Re: Harmonics, octaves, and vibrations

Soloflecks wrote:

I like your thoughts!

Thankyou, I'm glad you like them! smile

"Life's not meant to be a struggle" Stuart Wilde
We are one and the same on a different path to the same destination

Re: Harmonics, octaves, and vibrations

Hi Seeker
As you say, some of the Keely stuff is interesting, but who knows what to make of it all.
I only heard about Keely after doing lots of my own research - have a look for yourself:
http://ray.tomes.biz and especially
http://ray.tomes.biz/story.htm and
http://ray.tomes.biz/maths.html and
http://ray.tomes.biz/alex.htm
All about harmonics and how this musical universe works
have fun
Ray Tomes

Re: Harmonics, octaves, and vibrations

Please allow me to inject this thought into this thread, as it is a subject near and dear to my heart.  "When the light has served its purpose in our spiritual development, the SOUND appears."

I've studied the spiritual side of sound for years, and I feel that this is the true core of our being, and the way that we communicate with God, our creator, our essence, the force, or whatever one wants to call it. 

This all-nourishing sound has been called by many names throughout the world.  The Christian faith calls it the "Word of God".  In India it is known as the Nam. The Greeks refere to it as the Logos, and the Sufis call it the Vadan.  This divine current is the breath of life of all God's creation, and all creation is the body of God.   At least that's one way that I see it.  It is composed of two basic elements:  Light and Sound.  This great river of spirit constantly flows around and throught each of us and can be seen inwardly as light and heard by the inner ears as sound. 

I'd like to go on and on about this, but I'll wait to see if there is any interest.  No sense "preaching to the choir".

Enlightenment happens!  Attachment to the ego-self leads one into delusion; but faith in one's Buddha nature leads one to enlightenment.

Re: Harmonics, octaves, and vibrations

Sheesh, heres a thought that came to my mind, as i was reading your above post/thought:

in the higher realms, where 1 is no longer a physical being, it seems light wouldnt be as prominent as sound. like, sound is more of a "mystical" or "invisible" force. dont get me wrong, light is just as important, but when u think about it like that, sound seems to be from another dimension....

this is defenitely a great post, and my hats off to seeker for putting together scuh a nice and coherent post, with links!

as some of u may know, im big on Music (being a DJ) but i always knew there was much more to it. and ive read some material that touches on this, but i bet there is so much more to learn.

oh, let me throw this in here (ties in with the movies thread) - any1 see Kung Fu Hustle yet? what about those 2 musical enemies who use sound as their weapon??? now that was the best part of the entire movie.

i read i believe it was Lyssa Royal's Prism of Lyra, and in it was an explanation that there are Overtones setup (with octaves) in our "Density" Levels (how ever u call it, 3d, 4d, 5d...) and that as you reach the top of one overtone, or set, you cannot pass thru onto the next overtone unless u have unconditional love, STO mentality, or something like that. it sounded like some kind of defense mechanism , and im not sure of it all but just thought id throw it into the discussion.

"...i was taken by the hand, from the ocean to the sand..."
nitin sawhney - 'eastern eyes'

11 (edited by Sheesh 2005-05-18 09:27:47)

Re: Harmonics, octaves, and vibrations

Zonabi, what if sound (vibration) creates light?  Certainly they are both equally important. 

Just look how important sound is in our life.  Many seekers of truth who practice meditation or some types of yoga have experiences where they may see streaks or flashes of many-colored lights. These experiences are manifestations of the light which exists in both the outer physical worlds and the inner worlds. This light comes in many forms - sunlight, artificial light, fire, and lightning.  Other forms of light (ie, ultraviolet and infrared) also exist on the physical plane.  And there is also an inner light, within our own bodies.   When people say "I see the light", they are alluding to a particular point of view or understanding. Something now makes sense based on new knowledge or information.  Metaphysically, the darkness was turned into light.

By studying religion, science, metaphysics, astrology, tarot, phylosophy - our mental and emotional senses are stimulated and we feel a new lightness of being as we grow in knowledge of our relationship to the Divine. These pursuits are important and gratifying, still, there is more.

Religious, shamanistic, and native ceremonies throughout the world reveal the importance of sound. Chanting, drumming, bells, horns, flutes and singing are used to help humans commune with the god of their understanding. Sound is the basic. original element. I believe sound permeates all the outer worlds of God, as well as all the inner planes. Almost all great religious texts and sacred writings refer to the audibility of spirit as it flows from the Godhead to give life and consciousness to the creation.

Students throughout the ages report medative experiences where they perceived buzzing bees, tinkling bells, rushing water, harps, flutes and even bagpipes.  I have been told that these sounds refer to the different inner planes of existence.  The soul has senses, as do all the other bodies within our being (there are 5).  Soul sees and hears.  Seeing refers to soul's ability to see and know truth instantly.  This has nothing to do with our personal likes and dislikes.  We cannot understand this clearly because the seeing faculty of soul exists in a higher, finer band of reality (sound and light) than our thought processes.

Soul also hears.  These are sounds the physical body cannot hear.  Before this faculty can be activated we have to be trained to gather our scattered attention away from the outside world.  The sounds that soul hears are more than just pleasing sounds.  This sound current is actually a divine river of consciousness that contains all the God-like attributes of love, wisdom, freedom, and power.  When we access this current, we begin to realize and actualize these attributes within ourself. 

The progression from the light to sound is a gigantic step.  While light enlivens the mind, sound enlivens the soul.   Need proof.... hee hee.... just go to any disco and watch the sound enliven the lower chakras of sexuality and reproduction.  It's all in the vibration.  And when we meet that certain someone..... we say they have the right vibes.

Enlightenment happens!  Attachment to the ego-self leads one into delusion; but faith in one's Buddha nature leads one to enlightenment.

Re: Harmonics, octaves, and vibrations

"watch the sound"

wink

coin that one!

Danny Tenaglia, one of my favourite DJs/Producers, has lyrics in one of his classic songs:

"music is the answer ... to your problems..."

and its so true.

Music ( Sound ) is such a powerful force. for example, for those of you who have 9-5 jobs (dont be ashamed, i do too, its necessary at this point in time) you can probably relate (or even test) this theory:
when u wake up early in the morning, and u still feel sleepy, u dont want to go to work, and u are lazy-- PUT ON SOME GOOD MUSIC. put on your current favourite CD. it will wake you up, it will energize you and uplift your laziness.

sound, which we humans incorporate into music, is so very powerful, its no wonder why corrupt entities/people would want to get involved and/or manipulate the music industry/scene.

i know ive strayed a bit from the original thread idea, but i feel music to be such a vital part of our lives, and music/sound has been delivering messages since the beggining of time!

Zonabi, what if sound (vibration) creates light?  Certainly they are both equally important.

yes, possibly true (that sound creates light) but i think of it more as - Vibrations create both sound and light. maybe thats the same thing u are saying?

it would seem that vibrations are what create everything, now wouldnt it ?

good points and great discussion smile

z

"...i was taken by the hand, from the ocean to the sand..."
nitin sawhney - 'eastern eyes'

Re: Harmonics, octaves, and vibrations

I found these definitions in a spiritual book and share here to provide food for thought.

LIGHT: That which reveals the contents of the mind through reason, logic, study, and the use of the psychic senses; information, knowledge; cannot alone deliver the soul to self-realization.

SOUND: The wave (honest it said wave) of consciousness or awareness which is constantly creating; the life-source; the Audible Life Stream; the transformative essence of God which draws us from the human and psychic states into the spiritual consciousness.

SOUND CURRENT: The creative power which manifests as Sound and Light in the spiritual regions. As the soul manifests in the body as consciousness, the Word of God manifests Itself as inner Spiritual Sound.  The Sound Current is both expressible, which can be uttered, and inexpressible, which an only be heard within.

FWIW:

Enlightenment happens!  Attachment to the ego-self leads one into delusion; but faith in one's Buddha nature leads one to enlightenment.