Re: Doubts even here...

The situation is analogous to that of life in the deep sea. There are many fish swimming around, some big and some small. The bigger fish eat the smaller, weaker ones. So, there are only two ways to protect yourself. The first way is to be a big fish. If the smaller fish ever come in for a bite of you, and usually they do this in groups because they would be too scared otherwise, then you simply bite their heads off, one by one. The only problem with being a big fish is that there is always going to be a bigger fish out there somewhere, and one day you may encounter it and it may not like you. The second option is to be a shellfish, like a giant clam. This way, neither the big fish or the small fish are going to be able to get at you, but it takes time and patience before you can grow the shell sufficiently enough to afford such protection. One it is in place, however, nothing gets through: You can sit safely inside your shell laughing at all the other fish, even the sharks.

That said, it sounds to me like lightwave exists in a particularly dark part of the sea. All the fish there seem to enjoy taking a nibble at her, just for the hell of it and at the drop of a hat. Even for a shellfish, that is kind of annoying. Personally, I'd find a lighter part of the ocean to live in; somewhere that lets a bit more sunlight through and is a little less murky.

"Fear is the great barrier to human growth. Unknowns create fears. When these Unknowns become Knowns the fears diminish and disappear, and we are able to cope with whatever confronts us." - Robert A. Monroe

Re: Doubts even here...

lightwave wrote:

What if you feel you are no longer a fish? Big fish, little fish, blue fish, star fish, shell fish, etc.? What if it's all you've ever know is that you are a fish and live in the water, but are starting to believe you aren't a fish anymore and possibly never really were?

Then you have to leave the ocean. See my earlier, lengthy post regarding this:

Neomatrix wrote:

Perhaps this feeling that I have, which caused me to even begin this thread, is nothing more than my own deeper desire for something different. Something that, perhaps, cannot be found here. I don't know, but the parallels are too obvious to ignore--even if I wanted to. I feel like I am the one saying those words that Bob said to the other curls, but in my case I'm saying it to other human beings: "How about playing a new game? How about ...? Oh, happy with what you've got? Don't want to change? All right, keep doing what you're doing." I also empathize with his moving around, looking for variation: "I'll move far away ... far away ... but still here in my Home." Just like he did at that point, I moved far away yet still in my "Home" to find little of any significant difference to that which I had left.

Where do I go now?

"Fear is the great barrier to human growth. Unknowns create fears. When these Unknowns become Knowns the fears diminish and disappear, and we are able to cope with whatever confronts us." - Robert A. Monroe

Re: Doubts even here...

Just thought I'd share this!  Was reading through these posts and got upto the one that said:

Just as I was reading the new posts on this thread the latest Green Day song came on the radio. I'm sure it's not intended to be a spiritual song, but I thought the lyrics were quite fitting:

Boulevard Of Broken Dreams

I walk a lonely road

And guess what happened as I was reading the lyrics? Yes the song came on the radio!   

smile

DALE

Re: Doubts even here...

zonabi wrote:

entities (people included) in the STS think only of themselves, neglecting others, which is wrong.
entities (people included) in the STO think of others, while denying themselves importance/priority, which is wrong.
and even further comtemplation made me realize that BOTH of these basic orientations forgot to include several other aspects of service...

THERE IS AN ANSWER, I SAW, TO THIS EQUATION:

Service to All [STA]
my vision was one of integration. our planet, the special earth, is the place of integration between polarities, it was chosen by the founders, God, and the Aliens- to be the place to resolve conflicting polarities.
with this knowledge in mind, i saw that both of these orientations are fine and work for people, but they do not work with each other. another thing i saw was that neither of these orientations took into consideration providing service to the many non-living things that make up our world/reality, such as the earth(trees, grass, environment) and space (stars, moons, astronomy) and many other invisible factors that really have alot to do with our reality.
SERVICE-TO-ALL is what I envisioned, an orientation that provides Service to EVERYTHING, all things considered on their priorities. This orientation should balance the importance of helping others with the importance of taking care of thyself. they should also consider helping the Earth as it is our home planet, our base for living, our foundation.


YES!!!!!!!!  This is fantastic.

50 (edited by T-Ren 2004-12-12 12:49:45)

Re: Doubts even here...

Sorry I am a "Teddy come lately"

There is a whole lot in this thread that I have marked it to read and re-read.

I tried pretty much every variety of the sheep pen and found a serious lack of effort. In one situation a person said they felt we didn't need them...I thought, "you're right. I have my family and the peace within me, what more do I NEED?" Until I have come to realize that to move from a "believer" to a "knower" as Neo puts it, we have to do in the "real world". So what I have perceived was what ermolai identified as the lack of REAL LOVE.  And for me I have realized it begins with me...I don't know how to love (but I am learning).

In order to love I figured you have to give up you desires but as Neo said in another thread maybe you don't. I agree, I think what is needed is to humble yourself to help a person, love a person for who they are completely, knowing that you are going to receive that love for who you are desires and all from someone/ somewhere else.

And as tillibullu is getting at (if I am reading correctly) love even the unloveable, sometimes this will be the STS's and those stuck in the MCS, but by Loving them you don't give them loosh, and you take the strength out of their attacks. This is some what simplist as there are times when discernment is needed to not enable the other, but foundational none the less.

Peace,
Teddy

"It means the Matrix can't tell you who you are" - Trinity

Re: Doubts even here...

Oops sorry it is Zonabi, but tilli put it where I could see it.

Peace,
Teddy

"It means the Matrix can't tell you who you are" - Trinity

52 (edited by Christine B. 2004-12-12 11:45:17)

Re: Doubts even here...

Hey Teddy,

For a "newbie" you speaka da langeege preeety good ... TPTB (the powers that be) are going to be very mad at you!! smile 

Christine B.
PS: Just to clarify TPTB aren't the good guys. 
Edited to add the PS

Re: Doubts even here...

That thud was me being laid out by the 2X4 that hit my head. What a buffoon. Thanks

Peace,
Teddy

"It means the Matrix can't tell you who you are" - Trinity

Re: Doubts even here...

lightwave wrote:

It is things like this that I find so bizarre to deal with. I want to say, well what difference is it if the whole state agrees with you, this is ridiculous! But, I end up defending myself to balance things. I said, well it really doesn't matter how many agree, it's a preference. I feel compelled to take a stand for individuality, but then I get in trouble. My friend said it wasn't a big deal and did prefer unhemmed pants, to which I say fine, but it was like they could agree, but I could not express an opposing view. Once the consensus was agreed upon, we all then had to then agree. Because "everyone else" did not have a problem, we now needed to get in line with everyone else and usually in a situtation like this I try to hold my own in a polite way, but it usually fails and I walk away feeling like I did something wrong. I can never understand why we all needed to agree on the unhemmed pants. Why could there not be 2 or even 3 different viewpoints. No, we all needed to agree to be of one mind. My friend later after wearing the pants had to again go on about getting me to see the error of my ways and that unhemmed ones are really better.

A question for you:

Do you want to win?

Re: Doubts even here...

lightwave wrote:

They say they want people to "think out of the box", " be innovative" yeah right!! Some of these people in power meet someone like that and they shit their pants and then will make sure you are made to shut your mouth.

I was speaking to a friend of mine who used to own his own business.  We discussed this very problem.  He said to me, "Thinkers are hard to employ.  As an employer you want people to come in, do their job, not try to control things, just fit in their place."

He himself recognized how messed-up this fact is.  He got frustrated with this and dissolved the business.  He left the country to go travel and is making money through trading so that he has more freedom.

I have had similar frustrations in my jobs.  Hard to bow down to people I cannot respect.  Hard to pretend that they can really manage me when we both know I am more intelligent!!!

56 (edited by tillibullu 2004-12-12 18:57:52)

Re: Doubts even here...

askewd wrote:

Just thought I'd share this!  Was reading through these posts and got upto the one that said:

Just as I was reading the new posts on this thread the latest Green Day song came on the radio. I'm sure it's not intended to be a spiritual song, but I thought the lyrics were quite fitting:

Boulevard Of Broken Dreams

I walk a lonely road

And guess what happened as I was reading the lyrics? Yes the song came on the radio!   

smile

DALE


I AM NOT SURPRISED!!!  That's just how "IT" works. 

Can I get a witness?

I used to call it weird.  My brother finally suggested I take that word out of my vocabulary....

When the "weird" starts to become the norm....
or when I realized it always was, I was just ignoring it....
it became silly to call it weird.

I find I still say things are "weird" when I am putting on a mask around the people who really do think it is weird.  I play the nut-role to get in, make them think I am "one of them" and then I seduce them into the light.

POW!

57 (edited by tillibullu 2004-12-12 20:04:41)

Re: Doubts even here...

First off,

THANK YOU ALL for your contributions to this forum.  It has shifted so much energy around in me and given me great strength.  How delicious!

I’ma write stream-o-consciousness style, hope that’s OK.


“There are worse things than being alone.“?
Charles Bukowski


A few years ago I began to realize that the time I felt most lonely was when I was in groups of people….

I am fortunate to know individuals with whom I can communicate quite deeply and feel connected.  But whenever large groups come together we sink to the lowest common denominator….so many systems of wisdom caution against hanging out in crowds for this reason.  I avoid large groups now like the plague. 

I really enjoy one-to-one exploratory conversation, deep exchange with another who is not communicating thru ego but thru heart.  How fortunate I am to have some of these friendships!  Also I don’t mind smaller groups when all involved trust each other and the vibration is open and nurturing and joyful.

But large groups–only when I absolutely must, like family events. 

However……
Recently at Thanksgiving I had an opportunity to introduce some ideas that were completely foreign to my relatives.  My sister actually said, “You know, that just really made something click for me.“?  This was nice.  Others were more subtle in their reactions.  Others teased me for the next few days about my ideas.  But I really do think that, by approaching the topic slowly, gently and smoothly I actually got my foot in the door of consciousness.  This gave me a bit of “hope“?….a dirty word, I know, but it was encouraging.

I try to be loving while still protecting myself.  I try to stay open in case opportunities for communicating a deeper truth arise…..

I also learned that the best way to create this kind of exchange is to be the first to open the door.  By embodying openness, I encourage others to be open.  By dropping my mask, by saying, “Hey y’all, let’s quit playing games and just be real“? I help others to put down their swords.


I accept who I am and that I am different than most people, although it has been a long journey to reach this acceptance.

The article on Montalk about OPs and STS people confirmed that I had made the mistake so many times of assuming that others were basically like me.  It took a really bad relationship with a possible OP (or at least a not-fully-souled man) which left me feeling guilty and completely drained of energy, frustrated and confused (“Why is he acting like that, I just don’t get it?“?) because I assumed he and I shared the basic human trait of empathy.  I believed his big talk that he wanted to grow and become more realized…..but all he really wanted to do was feed off my energy and then make me feel guilty when I needed to be alone and recuperate. 

My codependent relationship with my parents (I feel that I spent most of my growing-up years nursing their emotions and making sure my mother in particular felt secure) made me prepped and ready for such an attack.  I had mis-learned that love was about control and so this OP’s behavior didn’t strike me as so bizarre in the beginning. 

As for the question of spending time alone, it might just be a necessary habit for those who awaken, until such time as the society is, as a whole, more awake and therefore less draining.  I visited Ermolai’s site, http://www.reclaimyoursoul.org .  It features excellent articles about schizophrenia and shamanism.  Many on the path of awakening (and learning to bridge the different dimensions) have felt a deep need to be alone.  We need that space to figure out what is real and what is illusory, who we are, where our free will begins and ends, etc.

Perhaps we just need to cycle through alone times and “public“? times. 

I have always enjoyed spending time alone.  I remember as a child relishing it. I find that some people take my need to be alone as a rejection of them.   They cannot see that instead it is an affirmation of my Self.  Nothing to do with them…that’s the whole point!

If I had grown up in a different society, a more traditional spiritual society, I would have been recognized early on and raised in a way that developed my skills for the benefit of Truth.  Instead I was labeled “gifted“? which meant I had to be pushed through the Matrix Machinery so that I could become the ideal peg.  I jumped through the hoops for years…

Not because I was stupid, but because of a fear, a co-dependency, a fear of being separate.

I remember even in high school recognizing that if I really, really became who I truly was, if I really went for what I knew to be true, I would have to really detach from most people I knew.  This scared me.

So this brings me to this idea of the sheep being dumb…..

What if it isn’t stupidity but FEAR?

I think many of the sheeple are ignorant but not stupid.  I think that the Matrix wants us to believe that they are stupid so we will give up, feel more alone and become elitist and separate. 

It’s the same tactic played out through race, class, religion and ethnicity.  Separate, divide, make hierarchies and conquer.  Keep communication lines broken.  Keep us all from seeing One Love, All-One.  Keep us all from the beautiful secret:

                             All Human Suffering Is The Same. 


In fighting the Lizard People, let’s take care we don’t become one!

Maybe the sheeple are afraid and therefore ignoring Truth because it scares them.

People don’t recognize the Truth because they see it so rarely.

Also, I think the principle of acting in the most beneficial way possible without being attached to outcomes is a good approach.  Plant a seed.  Don’t expect it to bloom straight away.  I know there were people decades ago trying to get through to me.  For whatever reason (prolly fear, insecurity, cynicism) I wasn’t ready to awaken, but the seeds they planted eventually sprouted.

The path of subtlety, the clever use of parables and questions, these can be far more effective.  Get in through the back door, the side door, the trap door.  Be tricky!  Be clever!  Make it a fun game!

We are all getting down.  Yuck.

Stay up.  It’s too crowded down there!

Do the best you can and then trust that goodness will eventually come from it.  Work without attachment to the fruits of your labor.

We must emulate the calmness of The Oracle in The Matrix.  She sees ALL yet remains calm, compassionate, loving, centered.   Mmmmmmmmmmmmm, nice.

Re: Doubts even here...

ON CHILDREN:
Can't remember who brought this up....

Yeah I also came to the realization in the past couple years that some, if not many, people have kids to satisfy their own emotional needs and deficiencies….then they have the nerve to make the kids feel guilty about their existence!


SMEENE
Your jail analogy is fantastic.  Why do I still worry about approval from those detained?  Why not just forget about their approval and only seek to release them?


"GAME OVER"
I recently found this mantra spontaneously erupting in my head.  After returning to my home city after years of travel, moving, being a gypsy, I tried to fit back in.  But life had moved on without me. 

Furthermore, the shiny pretty things that used to excite me no longer do.  I can’t get any satisfaction in the things the average person believes are satisfying him/her.

So now I have to take the responsibility of creating my own world…..

I can’t go dance at the clubs anymore because the vibration has sunk so low.  There is less ceremonious joyous energy, more frontin’, posing, pretense.  Nasty.  So I had to find satisfaction in dance classes and dancing alone.

Game over, game over, game over….

Which is to say, THE GAME HAS ONLY JUST BEGUN!!!

ZONANBI: "Solve Et Coagula": Destroy to Recreate. I think this is a very important statement in regards to the process of creation, and carries with it the unspoken assumption that what is (eventually) put back together will be vastly superior in form to that which was originally destroyed.“?

Word, yes, right-on, exactly.

And on the spiritual level that is the reason for the current break-up, dissolution, mixing up and reshaping of cultures and society.  Racially, ethnically, religiously, class-wise we are all being shaken up like a funky-ass cocktail from a new-wave futuristic bar.

59 (edited by tillibullu 2004-12-12 20:09:17)

Re: Doubts even here...

NEOMATRIX quoting his Dad on Iraq: “It's nothing to do with us. After all, it's such a long way from here." See what I mean? If it isn't happening on their own doorstep, they don't want to know about it.

But sometimes I feel that we are so bombarded with these events in other areas of the planet that we cannot control that it overwhelms us….we feel powerless and confused about what to do….

While obviously what is happening in Iraq DOES have lots to do with what is happening in my life (we are all here on singular, connected, spaceship Earth after all) I do know that sometimes I feel really overwhelmed when bombarded with so much info about world turmoil that feels way beyond the scope of my control, at least in the immediate sense.  I feel sometimes I do have to shut it out and put my energy into proactive creativity.  I don’t permanently ignore it, but I can understand the need to shut it out at times….


SOLOFLECK wrote:
“We can never be alone, because we are part of everything, so loneliness is a self-imposed illusion generated by ego and emotion.  It's another effect of 3D duality.“?

Yes, true dat!!

I have spent the better part of the last six weeks isolated in the mountains and then six months ago just returned from two years spent far, far away in another country….

And it’s interesting how my telepathic connections with friends and family STRENGTHENED as I isolated myself.  We can never be truly alone, even if we try!!

SOLOFLECK wrote:
“We can't blame them for believing the same lies that we also once believed.  We can't be angry with them for what they do when we realize it's not personal.  It's not about us but about the lies they believe about themselves.  They don't know what they're doing.“?

                Forgive them Father for they know not what they do!

SOLOFLECK wrote:
“We do know and that puts us in a position of greater responsibility where others are concerned.  If they are sheep, then we are shepherds.“?

Yeah, and our responsibility now is to become the wisest shepherds we can.

              For, if the shepherd is lost, what hope have the sheep? 

SOLOFLECK wrote:
“?We automatically set ourselves apart when we stop making and participating in the emotional drama which energizes the dream of hell the rest of the world is living.  Instead with truth and love we energize a new personal dream of heaven.  Our connection with the source of unlimited true knowledge does make us more than human; hyperhuman, maybe, because we acknowledge our hyperdimensional true selves.“?

True, true.

However, our anger and sadness and disappointment are legitimate.  They are fuel, they drive us to carry on.  Yet we must always keep an eye on the larger picture, a balance. 

When interacting with someone who is asleep, I believe that although their “Waking-Life Self“? does not know, their Higher Self does!  And let us try to always contact that higher self…

Always look for the Light in another being, and attempt to connect to that, while still keeping a sharp eye peeled on their petty or dark side which might come out and smack ya at any time!

Now, as for OP’s this may be a trap, so we must remain vigilant….

But generally speaking I do believe there is light in most humans, and I look for it immediately.  I speak to that part.

As soon as we start LABELLING people as Sheeple, OP’s. STSs, we shut out our connections and commonalities.  We shut down the pathways of connection.  We shut down the possibilities of communication.

Maybe this is not the best approach?

Re: Doubts even here...

...Talk about "come lately" , I am one of those as well. What a wonderful thread, I have printed it all off so I can read it later today...and will pass it on to my partner as I have done with other threads.  I feel my input is a little too late now, as everyone has certainly covered all aspects. However, I will say that balancing/centeriing yourself between the matrix and your higher self is the key to getting through the down times...when I am in similar circumstances, I step outside myself and observe it from a 3rd persons perspective, this allows me to see everything more clearer, and that way I am able to resolve what I am faced with.  Sorry if someone else has already spoken these words.

Knowledge Protects