I was half way into a reply to post #30 before bedtime and returned this AM to find this continuation. I have some points to add here before going back to post #30.
(continuing from my post #30)
(...and continuing this hair splitting of the Ra Material... )
For over a century the basic paradigm of the 7 levels of universal manifestation have been revealed. Basically they are 4 material levels and 3 spiritual. The basic numerology and geometry (eg. the square pyramid) have been outlined to illustrate and explain the 7 levels. All levels have been given names as have the 'bodies' that relate to each level. It's a basic well known paradigm that i summarised on page 13 (post #191) of the "magnetics and ascension" thread which anyone is welcome to search and see if it makes sense and resonates. I accept that it is true. Because i do, i was speculating about where "Ra's" '4th density' might fit into that scheme.
From page 13, post #191:
1st density = physical earth body in 3d physical plane.
2nd density = astral body in astral plane
3rd density = mental body in mental plane MATERIAL
4th density = etheric body in etheric plane
5th density = white light consciousness of christos / boddhi
6th density = causal body in plane of first cause SPIRITUAL
7th density = I AM Presence / Atman / Father
I know your system above was intended to be completely different from that of Ra. But since you were asking where 4th density fit into the system of four material and three spiritual states according to the Ra/Cassiopaean cosmology, it would be something more like this:
1st density (primal matter) = physical
1st density (mineral, plants) = physical, etheric
2nd density = physical, etheric, astral
3rd density = physical, etheric, astral, mental
4th density = physical / etheric, astral, mental, Christos VARIABLY PHYSICAL
5th density = etheric / astral, mental, Christos, causal
6th density = mental, Christos, causal, I AM NONPHYSICAL
7th density = All, everything, everywhere
The scheme i outlined above is completely different to the "Ra"/Cass scheme. The only similarities i can see are that 7 'densities' are listed and that virtually all the same words are used. I see "Ra's" scheme as a jumble of mixed concepts (the evolution of elemental consciousness ...and... vibrational densities) and a related incongruous admixture of "levels of consciousness" and " levels of density" as it relates to the soul's incarnational experience. Because it tries to say so much, it ends up saying very little to me. While it is of interest to know how minerals, plants and animals fit into the universal evolutionary scheme i believe they are out of place in a scheme/chart which attempts to illustrate how our own souls are situated within 4 material planes and 3 spiritual planes. Both concepts are different and they are trying to say different things. It is why the numbers don't make sense in relation to the 7 levels/densities of Self and their relationship to our own incarnational experience in matter. If the "Ra" chart is dealing with those 7 densities of self- manifestation it should stick to that in it's numerical scheme. If it wants to deal with the subject of evolution through the various elemental forms of life (minerals, plants animals), it should perhaps stick to that in a separate numerical scheme. By trying to do both (or misunderstanding them for each other in a scheme dealing with the 7 vibrational "densities") it loses coherance, creates unnecessary complexity and thereby results in all the semantic difficulties people are having trying to describe what it is actually saying. That's why i stated matter of factly that it is simpler than that. Compare both charts above.
Although the graduations are jumbled the "Ra" scheme/chart is attempting to illustrate the graduating evolutionary levels of consciousness, not "vibrational densities" as such.... (and it has concertina'd 7 levels of personal experience into 6). For the sake of simplicity i would explain by saying that, as far as the souls incarnation in matter is concerned, the 4 planes of matter are cups or vessels of consciousness rather than levels of consciousness. True, the 4 lower bodies and the 4 planes they occupy are 'conscious' in their own way. That is, like all elemental energy they have a certain elemental consciousness. But only as vessels serving the spiritual evolution of the soul. Given that, and given that those 4 material levels are our soul's present occupation, why not first grade those according to density (as they are in "my" chart above) and show the levels of spiritual consiousness that can and do occupy them. There is a simplicity in that as it relates to the soul's incarnation in the 4 planes of matter (and the process of resurrection and Ascension out of matter) and because of that simplicity, there is beauty in it too. It's true there is complexity in mathematics. But the closer one gets to the 'equation of reality' the simpler things can be represented. Complex mathematical equations often get boiled down through a process also and are descibed (when simply represented) as "beautiful".
This system describes the default composite nature of entities of each density. So instead of "fourth density is the astral plane" this says rather "fourth density beings are variably physical or etheric, can access the inner planes in their astral state, have a mental core of self-awareness, have the white light / christos activated (if STO). (The STS case is for another discussion, but essentially one becomes even more separated from the Higher Self and hitched instead to the upper demonic echelons of the STS hierarchy).
It's simpler than this too and illustrates that the "Ra" chart is jumbled in several ways. I'll elaborate in my reply to post #30 and give part of an explanation there.... And further on in this post too. But here, it's noteworthy to recall that "Ra" denies the necessity of the etheric and Buddhic (I AM) levels in the current "harvest", yet in "Ra's" chart above he associates the etheric body with 1st, 2nd, 3rd and 4th densities. Also, by dismissing the current relevance of the etheric level we are left wondering whether "Ra" proposes that Christ should leapfrog the etheric level in order to embrace the soul in the 3 lower material planes. And don't forget that you can become the buddha while in this physical body. There are undoubtedly people in this world today with the spiritual attainment of the buddha. If you concern yourself with the vibrations of etheric and Buddhic planes (as "Ra" advises against in his version of "harvest") you can become the buddha. The path of Christhood perfects the soul. Quietly comes the buddha.
Also we "can access the inner planes" in any state, not just the astral state. Given we are talking about the soul's access to inner planes it matters not which material body is occupied by the soul. The opportunity to enter into the inner- Spirit is always present no matter which of the bodies is 'worn' or lost in any plane. This attunement can awaken the soul to any inner plane. This means, as you know, that right now in this physical body we can also activate/awaken to the white light of Christos and through that, recieve the illumination of the I AM Presence (as Guatama Buddha and others have). It makes a case for what the simpler chart is showing. That at any "density" of the 4 planes of materiality, the soul can consciously awaken to the Christ Consciousness and the Buddha and demonstrate self- mastery over the lower elements.... physical, astral, mental, etheric. These elements obey the 'word' of the Christ and Buddha and conform to patterns according to the will of the Christ mind.
There is potential for confusion between the white-light / christos and the I AM / Atman / Father. Could you clarify what those mean to you, and what the difference is between them? If I understand you correctly, your idea of ascension is the activation of the I AM presence. David Wilcock says ascension involves an ecstatic merger with the Higher Self. Ra says the Higher Self is your sixth density "future" self. Therefore I place the I AM / Atman / Father in sixth density.
The individual Christ Self (the Son) is a projection of the I AM Presence (the Father). They are virtually indistinguishable from each other so that when the Son acts (in the service of the soul and other souls) it is always in perfect attunement with the Father. The Christ Self is spiritual but it is tasked (as mediator between spirit and matter) to descend into the 4 material planes to heal, enlighten and raise the soul back (through Christ) into spiritual union with the I AM Presence. So first, the soul must be healed in matter (of it's ignorance, it's karmic- self and karmic works/energies) and, in the process, be raised in vibration to perfectly resonate in oneness with Christ. The closer the soul gets to the primal spiritual vibration of Christ love, the easier it is to percieve the higher Will. Joy, love, wisdom and power increases as that union is forged. When that oneness with Christ is complete in the 4 material planes (ie. the karmic energies are transmuted and the soul is without 'blemish') then the I AM presence draws the soul and Christ (one), out of the material planes into a permanent fusion with the I AM in spiritual planes. In that ritual, the soul, the Christ and the I AM Presence become ONE---- in ecstatic union----at the level of the I AM Presence in Spirit. This means a "whole" new way "being" because the full spiritual perspective is gained. The Ascended Adept now has unfettered freedom (according to the plan of hierarchy and according to the laws of freewill and karma of incarnate souls) to enter into the material planes to assist and defend their unascended brothers and sisters. Love hath no bounds. They may even sponsor an unascended initiate to give spiritual teachings to the world.
While the Causal Body has been denoted as the "body of first cause" this doesn't mean that it is the 'highest level' of personal Selfhood, or even the highest level of the impersonal universal Self. But it is Spiritual and it is not lost as the 4 elemental material bodies are. It is retained after the Ascension as the sum of all experience in materiality. The Causal Body is comprised of 12 concentric spheres of light/consciousness (7 major and 5 minor rays) which (vibrationally) surround the pure white light of the I AM Presence. It is called the Causal Body because it is beyond the lower planes of karmic effects (in spiritual planes) and it endows the soul with talents and spiritual gifts created by the soul's loving use of freewill in prior incarnations. The soul endows it... it endows the soul... and vice versa. A multiplication is achieved. The Causal Body is comprised of all the light energy which ever streamed through the soul and 4 lower bodies via the chakras and which was positively qualified and returned (lacking karmic weight) to the plane of spirit. While the soul is incarnate, love is expressed through the 7 major and 5 minor chakras and rises back to spiritual planes to increase the magnitude of the causal body. It is the personal attainment of the individual soul and (both before and after the Ascension) is an eternal adornment to draw upon and increase without limit.
So there is an ascension process (the path of resurrection of the lower- self) and (what David Wilcock speaks of) as the 'Ascension event'. Many joys, ecstacies and sorrows attend that path. So Ascension is more than the "activation" of the souls awareness of Christ and the I AM Presence. That is the path of progressive awakening. The 'Ascension event' is the permanent merger of the soul to Spirit. During the soul's path to the Ascension, the Christ and I AM Presence must be "activated". This of course means becoming conscious of those spiritual levels within. The soul's conscious attention allows the flow of energy/consciousness from higher planes to lower. (ie... the descent of the Holy Spirit can dwell bodily in the temple [in the 4 lower bodies]). In the peace and harmony of the soul, an arc of contact can be established with the Christ Self. That spiritual flow is attenuated (for the soul) under the wise direction of the inner- Christ. And of course the Christ / I AM Presence is a present Self, it is just that we have to go through a process of cycling through time and space in order to consciously realise/externalise that higher- Self in the soul and 4 lower bodies. How much time and space is needed, is determined by the soul's willingness to accept the inner- Christ and by "working the works of Him ( I AM) who sent me"... as Jesus said. He also said.... "the Father (I AM) works hitherto (here in matter) and I work". And.... "He who sees me, sees not me, but He (I AM) who sent me". Jesus is/was a Christ realised master and was referring to the fact that Christ is one with the Father (I AM) and that that great- Self acts in the material planes.... now. The higher- Self is not aloof (even though it can appear so) and would fulfill IT's Will in us. The Son obeys the Father and if the soul will be guided by Christ then all can unite in the Ascension of the soul back to the I AM Presence in Spirit.
But according to Ra, graduating to 4D STO, even though it means you will have an active and open communication line with your Higher Self, does not mean you become that sixth density Higher Self. At 4D, the I AM presence doesn't form your center of gravity, but is more something still further up the spiritual evolutionary ladder that you gain a new kinship with. However, what is activated in the 4D STO state is the heart, and thus the Christ consciousness, which is all about love, understanding, and redeeming those less fortunate (as in 3rd density beings). Therefore I had to put the white-light / christos as the new thing in fourth density. The STO ascension that Ra talks about is basically the activation of Christ consciousness, with the addition of forging more permanent conscious communion with the Higher Self.
Have to add that 4D STO and 6D STO have a very close kinship, the latter having a more oracular or advisory function to the first. The lesser 6D STO is the "personal channel" (according to Cass terminology) a.k.a. the Higher Self, while the higher 6D STO is the "group channel" a.k.a. "sixth density social memory complex" of which the Ra and the Cassiopaeans claim to be. All that isn't stated outright in the Cass and Ra material, but it's apparent in reading between the lines and consulting other sources like Seth Speaks or Allies of Humanity where this difference between lower and higher STO entities demonstrates itself.
If they're claiming that their "higher 6th density" level is the loss of individuality or that it is some kind of inevitable merger of individual self- realisation then that isn't true. Even 7th density at the level of I AM there is individualiy.
I further discussed "Ra's" teaching on the 7 bodies/densities on page 14 of the "magnetics and ascension" thread... post #196. As i stated there, i found his descriptions of the 7 'bodies' to be vague and jumbled (the word "incomplete" doesn't describe the deficiencies) that is, in light of the clarity which has been given in the past. In the "Ra" scheme, the mental body is not mentioned or described. The Christ did not get a mention or even a description... nor the Causal body which was not mentioned or described by anything that could distinguish it from others.
But i see you have placed the Christos, the mental body and the Causal Body in "Ra's" chart. How might the Ra scheme/chart look if you left out your own inclusions and just presented "Ra's" scheme the way he describes the densities/bodies? Also the "Ra" descriptions of the chakras appeared to have beeen invented on the spot. The number of petals and the colors of particular chakras were completely innacurate.
montalk wrote: Poffo wrote:
Ra and other "Confederation" sources mention both inner and outer planes for 3rd density, and I believe this goes for all densities. The inner planes relate to the time/space experience while the outer relates to space/time. Think of the inner planes (time/space) as being veiled from regular vision like the back side of the body while the outer planes (space/time) are visible as is the front side.
Thanks for your post, it cleared a lot of things up for me. And it got me thinking about the space/time vs time/space and inner planes connection, which goes a long way toward solving that conundrum of how 4D relates to the astral planes.
What poffo is saying is true. Without the "space/time" / "time/space" terminology (for inner/outer) he is stating the facts as they've been taught for centuries. That there are inner planes of reality. When you're in 3d (incarnate in the 4 lower bodies like we are) then there are also inner planes. (astral, mental, etheric + spiritual levels). Beyond 3d are the astral planes, which if you've lost your 3d physical body, the astral body is "now" your lowest material body... in which case you still have inner planes (mental, etheric + spiritual levels). And so on if you lose the astral body and awake to the mental body as your lowest material body then you still have inner planes (etheric + spiritual planes). The inner planes are always veiled from regular vision unless they are awakened to from within. How is this information solving the relationship between 4d and the astral plane?