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Noble Realms → General Discussion → Thanks
So today's Thanksgiving right? Except we don't have that in the UK.
But anyway I just want to say a really big Thankyou to everyone here for making this such a cool forum to hangout. And long may it continue!
Enjoy your turkey guys!! 
Oh really? I am in the UK too, so no wonder I have no idea today is the day.
Happy Thanksgiving to you all. Its like you guys get Xmas twice eh? 
Whats the history and what do people give thanks for, or can you choose whatever you want to give thanks for?
Why is it always the Turkey that gets it? Same here at Xmas in the UK, but being rebels, we choose to eat Chicken and Lamb instead.
Edit: I noticed the noble realms are quieter today ... could be the influence of the Turkey eating get togethers.
mimi
Hi Ayahuasca, mimi,
Well let's see....the story of Thanksgiving......At this point it's become more of a mythical lore 
, who knows what's really true, but here goes the official story. Anybody else feel free to join in and add or correct where necessary! Thanksgiving commemorates the Pilgrims' first winter in Plymouth (Massachusetts, not England) in 1620-1621. The local Natives had helped them get around their new area, helped them find food, showed them how to survive, basically. So after the fall harvest the Pilgrims had a feast to celebrate and give thanks, and invited the Natives. The foods that are commonly associated with Thanksgiving - turkey, potatoes, vegetables, cranberries, etc. - were supposed to be the foods they ate during the original thanksgiving. It has become the yearly tradition since then that once a year the family gets together and has the turkey meal gorge fest and give thanks for whatever they feel they should be giving thanks for.
We all know the rest of this story though. Natives were later killed and screwed over and driven off their own land by the same Pilgrims and colonists they had helped. Not a happy ending. Thanksgiving is more or less a holiday for those who like to live in an illusion. By that I mean, all our lives, especially as kids, we here in the US are shown cartoon images of Pilgrims and Indians at Thanksgiving and told the wonderful fable about it, but then we get older and learn the real history behind that time period and it's not the fairy tale they present. Anyway, I personally usually don't celebrate it, nor any holiday for that matter, but tonight we are throwing together a nice little meal here that happens to involve turkey. That's what we ironicaly happened to have on hand to eat, go figure. So far it smells good. So, that's the gist behind Thanksgiving.
Thank you All for everything, too much too name.
this forum is bar none- the coolest place to speak my mind. besides my own forum, its the only place i feel comfortable talking about the most out-of-this-world subjects.
As far as the story behind Thanksgiving- Lyra layed it down basically. BUT, none of us were really there and seeing as how most of history becomes twisted as time progresses i'd rather just Give Thanks in general and not attach the actual story to it, because it is not as happy as they make it seem.
Sorry guys! the Feast is READY !!
Happy Thanksgiving (Happy Holidays) to ALL of the Nobles.
z
Merry Jolly Thanksgiving to you all
In the words of Bobby Hill, son of Hank and Peggy
"Happy Thanks-taking!"
Annie aronburg
http://www.123christians.com/christians … index.html
Excerpt:
The history of this popular festival can be traced to the ancient civilizations of Rome and Greece. Ever since man learned to appreciate the fruits of agricultural labour, they have been grateful for the harvest. Their celebration of a bountiful yield is always coloured by their gratefulness for the benevolence of Gods and favourable conditions of nature.
The Greek people worshipped their Goddess of Grains, Demetes on this day. They celebrated their harvest festival in the autumn season and this festival was known as Themosphoria.
In Rome, the people celebrated the harvest festival of Cerelea, they worshipped Goddess Ceres on this day.
Even the Chinese celebrate the festival of Chung Chu'i to give thanks for their harvest
The Hebrew festival of Harvest is the second most important holiday in the jewish calendar. They celebrate the festival of Sukkoth.
In Egypt, after the harvest a festival was held in the honour of their God Min.
In the United States of America, Thanks Giving has a more concrete foundation, the festival is as old as the American civilization. The first pilgrims to the New World (America) celebrated three days of Thanks Giving after their first harvest. Today, it has evolved into a popular national holiday.
In Canada, Thanks Giving formally began in 1879 and is celebrated in the second week of October.
Happy Thanksgiving to all my fellow Americans and Seasons Greetings to all members of the Noble Realms around the world, old and new. We feasted on Sushi and Miso soup here. Last week I gave a Powerpoint presentation on Thanksgiving to my students and mentioned that Squanto, the Native American who saved the pilgrims' skins after that first miserable winter, spoke to them in English. There's a short video that gives a very good intro on the link below.
http://www.historychannel.com/exhibits/thanksgiving
Yours,
Perceval
Do u mean that Squanto knew English without the Pilgrims teaching him?
The links no longer working-
Ah, because thangsgiving is misspelled perhaps ?
http://www.historychannel.com/exhibits/thanksgiving/
Hey zonabi,
Sorry about that. One of the rare times I post, and I gave you a bum steer. I re-entered the link and it seems to be working now.
http://www.historychannel.com/exhibits/thanksgiving
I first read about Squanto greeting the the pilgrims in English in "Ripley's Believe it or Not." It didn't go into details about how he had learned English and neither does this video, but he hadn't learned it from the pilgrims. Any theories?
Perceval
I first read about Squanto greeting the the pilgrims in English in "Ripley's Believe it or Not." It didn't go into details about how he had learned English and neither does this video, but he hadn't learned it from the pilgrims. Any theories?
Jamestown. Roanoke.
People forget that the Pilgrims weren't the first outing to the "New World", that earlier settlements at Jamestown and Roanoke were attempted, but failed.
The settlers to Jamestown and Roanoke brought not only their English, but their smallpox and other European diseases. Helped wipe out a good portion of the northeastern Native American population. The settlers of Roanoke failed in their endeavors and subsequently "disappeared", as the myth goes. Most likely absorbed into the surrounding Native tribes. That's why folklore talks of Indian children with blue eyes. But at any rate, the Natives were acquainted with the British and English by the time the Pilgrims arrived about 30 years later.
Here's a link I found regarding Jamestown:
A timeline of early settlement events and attempts:
http://www.apva.org/history/timeline.html
it celebrates the massacre of indians...
http://indy.pabn.org/archives/213thank.shtml
In 1620, Pilgrims arrived on the Mayflower naming the land Plymouth Rock. One fact that is always hidden is that the village was already named Patuxet and the Wampanoag Indians lived there for thousands of years. To many Americans, Plymouth Rock is a symbol. Sad but true many people assume, "It is the rock on which our nation began." In 1621, Pilgrims did have a feast but it was not repeated years thereafter. So, it wasn't the beginning of a Thanksgiving tradition nor did Pilgrims call it a Thanksgiving feast. Pilgrims perceived Indians in relation to the Devil and the only reason why they were invited to that feast was for the purpose of negotiating a treaty that would secure the lands for the Pilgrims. The reason why we have so many myths about Thanksgiving is that it is an invented tradition. It is based more on fiction than fact.
So, what truth ought to be taught? In 1637, the official Thanksgiving holiday we know today came into existence. (Some people argue it formally came into existence during the Civil War, in 1863, when President Lincoln proclaimed it, which also was the same year he had 38 Sioux hung on Christmas Eve.) William Newell, a Penobscot Indian and former chair of the anthropology department of the University of Connecticut, claims that the first Thanksgiving was not "a festive gathering of Indians and Pilgrims, but rather a celebration of the massacre of 700 Pequot men, women and children." In 1637, the Pequot tribe of Connecticut gathered for the annual Green Corn Dance ceremony. Mercenaries of the English and Dutch attacked and surrounded the village; burning down everything and shooting whomever try to escape. The next day, Newell notes, the Governor of Massachusetts Bay Colony declared: "A day of Thanksgiving, thanking God that they had eliminated over 700 men, women and children." It was signed into law that, "This day forth shall be a day of celebration and thanksgiving for subduing the Pequots." Most Americans believe Thanksgiving was this wonderful dinner and harvest celebration. The truth is the "Thanksgiving dinner" was invented both to instill a false pride in Americans and to cover up the massacre.
Was Thanksgiving really a massacre of 700 "Indians"? The present Thanksgiving may be a mixture of the 1621 three-day feast and the "Thanksgiving" proclaimed after the 1637 Pequot massacre. So next time you see the annual "Pilgrim and Indian display" in a shopping window or history about other massacres of Native Americans, think of the hurt and disrespect Native Americans feel. Thanksgiving is observed as a day of sorrow rather than a celebration. This year at Thanksgiving dinner, ponder why you are giving thanks.
William Bradford, in his famous History of the Plymouth Plantation, celebrated the Pequot massacre:
"Those that scraped the fire were slaine with the sword; some hewed to peeces, others rune throw with their rapiers, so as they were quickly dispatchte, and very few escapted. It was conceived they thus destroyed about 400 at this time. It was a fearful sight to see them thus frying in the fyer, and the streams of blood quenching the same, and horrible was the stincke and sente there of, but the victory seemed a sweete sacrifice, and they gave the prayers thereof to God, who had wrought so wonderfully for them, thus to inclose their enemise in their hands, and give them so speedy a victory over so proud and insulting an enimie."
The Pequot massacre came after the colonists, angry at the murder of an English trader suspected by the Pequots of kidnapping children, sought revenge. rather than fighting the dangerous Pequot warriors, John Mason and John Underhill led a group of colonists and Native allies to the Indian fort in Mystic, and killed the old men, women, and children who were there. Those who escaped were later hunted down. The Pequot tribe numbered 8,000 when the Pilgrims arrived, but disease had brought their numbers down to 1,500 by 1637. The Pequot "War" killed all but a handful of remaining members of the tribe.
Proud of their accomplishments, Underhill wrote a book (above) depicted the burning of the village, and even made an illustration (below) showing how they surrounded the village to kill all within it.
ps...but thank you very much for the good wishes...the true story of Thanksgiving is not widely known.
A ps from my last post....
One other thing I just remembered regarding those early pre-Pilgrim settlements and their relation to the native tribes....
I read a book once called "Everything Your History Teacher Got Wrong" or something very similar, (anybody here know what I'm talking about?) Otherwise known as "REAL history that they don't tell you or gloss over." There was an entire chapter devoted to Jamestown, the Pilgrims and the first Thanksgiving. Here's the situation in a nutshell, from what I remember reading:
When the settlers of Jamestown and Roanoke arrived, like I mentioned, they brought with them all their European diseases and germs which wiped out a good chunk of the Native population. This in turn made the tribes vulnerable to attack by other tribes, since their numbers had dwindled. By the time the Pilgrims had arrived 20 years later, the local natives were eager to befriend the Pilgrims, not out of the goodness of their naive, sweet and innocent hearts, but out of necessity. They needed allies who could fill in the gaps where their tribe was lacking due to dwindling population from tribal warfare. The Pilgrims could provide that. The Pilgrims also had weapons the Natives didn't have. This is why the Natives were already familiar with English, familiar with the white man and eager to allign with them.
Secondly, ever wonder why all the towns and cities in New England have "field" as their suffixes? Field this and field that......Westfield, Enfield, Plainfield, Litchfield, Bloomfield, Mansfield, Deerfield, field field field....well that's because when the Pilgrims arrived in the northeast, they found a crapload of cleared land....fields. With ready made houses that were sitting there, abandoned. Leftovers from the earlier settlements which failed.
What's interesting is how this earlier history has been glossed over in our childhood history books.........many times even REMOVED. Why? Are they afriad that we can't handle hearing about failure? I don't know. Settlements succeed, some fail. Not sure what the big deal is in hiding this or glossing it over. The Pilgrims were really when you think about it just a bunch of losers who arrived with zero survival skills and no know-how about anything, whose only reason for even making it was because they had the natives to help them and ready made fields and abandoned houses that they could take over. They're not who the history books portray them as, AT all.
Anyway, food for thought....
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