• From: Saint Louis
  • Registered: 2004-08-21

Topic: Levels of understanding and education

A recent experience along with the  general direction of energy shown here by recent topics and discussion had brought some ideas to mind that I'd like to open for discussion. As we know from experience there are many levels of understanding that occur along the path of discovery of the issues that we discuss here. Most of us are familliar with the cycles of breakthough of a new idea or concept, followed by the assimilation into our perspective realities of that idea or concept, then followed by a period of stagnation or crystallization of that concept that leads to desire to start the process anew with fresh concepts.

I try to make an effort to occasionally 'climb up in a tree' and observe myself going through these processes and find it helpful to do so when the going gets tough. Sometime just changing your perspective on yourself is enough to allow yourself the realization that 'all things must pass'. It is not always easy to pull this off because usually the time when it is most beneficial to do this is when you are at the peak of experiencing the experience and climbing up in a tree is furthest from your mind.

Using this technique in a calmer period can help in studying the growth process in general though. I can look back at myself and look at where I was a year ago and realize how far I've come in a short period of time and even laugh at some of the concepts I embraced and the fears that influenced me, but just when I get ready to pat myself on the back I realize that in a year's time, I'll be thinking how full of shit I am now.

The ability to do this was one of the things that attracted me to Montalk's site (and the forum) in the first place as I noticed that amongst all the articles he published, he kept a folder of articles he had written on subjects or concepts that he no longer even prescribed to or endorsed himself but kept them there (I assume) to allow the reader to observe his own growth proccess. I thought this was admirable and a stark contrast to other sites professing information and demonstrated a wisdom in itself.

It occurred to me that if we all took an inventory of our past realizations and major breakthoughs that led to another level of understanding along with the events that triggered them and shared them, that we would probably see a similarity in a lot of them. We could then use this information to develop techniques in helping others reach new levels. Perhaps there are stages of development that are common to all that can be identified and addressed in certain ways.

In a way, we are doing this already quite naturally, and that is what this forum is all about. Perhaps we could develop some sort of loose system for educational purposes that would define some new terms, identify these common stages of development (if they exist), and examine the options of an individual effecting the situation. Or is this even a good idea as it could lead to interference in freewill?

Any thoughts?


SM

  • Registered: 2004-10-21

Re: Levels of understanding and education

Truth cannot be spoken of. Words can only point to the truth (they act as signposts).

what you are getting at is the intuitive frustrations of thought. this period of stagnation or crystallization is a natural mechanism of the mind that is in a constant conditioned  mode of reaching out for the next desire or event, not noticing that in the pauses between the first idea lies the real message.

there is definately a cycle within every act of creation. whether we are controlled by the cycle or are just aware of it and watch it is the question.

watching not to beat a dead horse when we're posting might be somewhere to start.

balance is the key. too much thinking can lead to identifying strongly with the world of form and when we're getting caught up in life, we're back in the dream, back in the illusion.

Like David Icke once said, it's ideal to have one foot in this reality and one foot in the inner life or in the you beyond name and form where you are pure oneness and awareness.

LoveParasite

--
"if you've lost your mind, you haven't lost much"

LoveParasite's Website

  • From: Saint Louis
  • Registered: 2004-08-21

Re: Levels of understanding and education

Thanks for the response, though I'm not sure I understand what you are saying. Perhaps you can help me.

LoveParasite wrote:

Truth cannot be spoken of.

Well, we do what we can with the tools that are available to us, are you not using words yourself?


LoveParasite wrote:

Words can only point to the truth (they act as signposts).

I agree

LoveParasite wrote:

what you are getting at is the intuitive frustrations of thought. this period of stagnation or crystallization is a natural mechanism of the mind that is in a constant conditioned  mode of reaching out for the next desire or event, not noticing that in the pauses between the first idea lies the real message.

I think this is an element of the entire learning process

LoveParasite wrote:

there is definately a cycle within every act of creation. whether we are controlled by the cycle or are just aware of it and watch it is the question.

hmmm, I think I get it. Can you give me an example to illustrate your point?

LoveParasite wrote:

watching not to beat a dead horse when we're posting might be somewhere to start.

Lost me here, are you refering to me?

LoveParasite wrote:

balance is the key. too much thinking can lead to identifying strongly with the world of form and when we're getting caught up in life, we're back in the dream, back in the illusion.

Like David Icke once said, it's ideal to have one foot in this reality and one foot in the inner life or in the you beyond name and form where you are pure oneness and awareness.

I think I'm in agreement with this but not sure how it applies to the original subject matter.

Pardon me if I don't quite get it, I'm just trying to understand what you are saying. I'm off for the evening, I'll check back later for your response.

Thanks, Stephen

  • Registered: 2004-10-21

Re: Levels of understanding and education

Hi,

i wasn't refering to you with the dead horse, i was refering to people overstating negativity and not being able to transmute the energy into a positive force.

i guess what i was trying to say in a nutty shell is that the more we try to figure something out intellectually, the more we realize we don't know anything really.

if we surrender to higher awareness that is found in not knowing, or moments of creative gaps, i think we will start to 'become' that pure level of awareness you speak of instead of always just checking on a roadmap. <-----turn right at the lights...

And lastly, i think the cycle creates itself through time and time only exists because we have created the illusion on going through something. So we are constantly going thru every idea or activity as a means to an end. So going through something can be symbolically seen as being in a dream or going through a dream. we also use time as a road block towards knowledge because we're under the belief that in order to understand it or get it we need time. this is why western spiritual teachers like Eckhart Tolle speak of the NOW. that is where all realizations, spiritual or practical reside. so the cycle is the illusion and if we feel cycles in our lives (i definately do) we are i dare say stagnating from what we're really capable to do!

i better stop, i'm starting to lose me..

LoveParasite

--
"if you've lost your mind, you haven't lost much"

LoveParasite's Website

5 Reply by Stephen M (edited by Stephen M 2004-10-30 01:47:01)

  • From: Saint Louis
  • Registered: 2004-08-21

Re: Levels of understanding and education

LoveParasite wrote:

Hi,

i wasn't refering to you with the dead horse, i was refering to people overstating negativity and not being able to transmute the energy into a positive force.

Wow, well, thanks for explaining for I understand now and agree that it can become a dangerous tendency and a self fulfilling process of sorts. As I've been getting it from all angles lately, I was  a bit paranoid and considered making assumptions in my misunderstanding.

LoveParasite wrote:

i guess what i was trying to say in a nutty shell is that the more we try to figure something out intellectually, the more we realize we don't know anything really.
if we surrender to higher awareness that is found in not knowing, or moments of creative gaps, i think we will start to 'become' that pure level of awareness you speak of instead of always just checking on a roadmap. <-----turn right at the lights...

Yeah, I agree totally. Your preachin' to the choir here. We are already at that point of attempting to pull this off within ourselves and that is a good thing. By this line of thought we are starting to break the dimesional barrier of time related logic. I'm still learning to do this at will consistently, I don't know about you. What I'm talking about is leaving some signposts for some of our earthly companions to follow that may help them on their travels. Just as we have gained knowledge from literature or art or in talking with a bum on a streetcorner, knowledge can be passed along when the 'timing' is right in 3D terms and by that I mean when the giver finds the right technique and medium for transmission and the receptor is 'open' for it to happen. What I am proposing here is a discussion or refining techniques for this this to occur and the best way that I know to do this is by examining the way we have gotten to the point that we have, not meaning to imply that we should rest on our laurels and celebrate our exhalted state, ha. There are plenty of folks that could benefit if they knew better and are perfectly capable of learning just as we did, although they may need to be spoonfed at first. Ultimately we'd  all benefit because someday it may be possible to walk into a bar and have an intelligent conversation with a stranger. Is this not possible?

LoveParasite wrote:

And lastly, i think the cycle creates itself through time and time only exists because we have created the illusion on going through something. So we are constantly going thru every idea or activity as a means to an end. So going through something can be symbolically seen as being in a dream or going through a dream. we also use time as a road block towards knowledge because we're under the belief that in order to understand it or get it we need time. this is why western spiritual teachers like Eckhart Tolle speak of the NOW. that is where all realizations, spiritual or practical reside. so the cycle is the illusion and if we feel cycles in our lives (i definately do) we are i dare say stagnating from what we're really capable to do!

i better stop, i'm starting to lose me..

LoveParasite

Yeah, I'm with you here too, on the level that it is on and am working to understand this fully and make this a part of my day to day view of reality. Again though, I must point out that there are many levels of understanding that have to proceed this (and yes, it does occur in the course of a timeline as we are stuck in this reality, at least partially) and I do think it is possible for people to benefit from other peoples experiences if communicated correctly. All I'm talking about is how best to do this if one is so inclined. A character in a dream can have quite a bit of influence.

SM

  • czyx
  • czyx
  • Sparking the gap.
  • Offline
  • From: Denver, CO
  • Registered: 2004-09-11

Re: Levels of understanding and education

Stephen M wrote:

The ability to do this was one of the things that attracted me to Montalk's site (and the forum) in the first place as I noticed that amongst all the articles he published, he kept a folder of articles he had written on subjects or concepts that he no longer even prescribed to or endorsed himself but kept them there (I assume) to allow the reader to observe his own growth proccess. I thought this was admirable and a stark contrast to other sites professing information and demonstrated a wisdom in itself.

Absolutely. I think it's important to remember where you used to be and to remember the old languages you used to speak, so that you can reach people who are currently caught up in those places and languages. The only real shame is in stopping and professing to have found the end of the path when you in fact have not, or in pretending to be further along than you actually are.

Stephen M wrote:

It occurred to me that if we all took an inventory of our past realizations and major breakthoughs that led to another level of understanding along with the events that triggered them and shared them, that we would probably see a similarity in a lot of them. We could then use this information to develop techniques in helping others reach new levels. Perhaps there are stages of development that are common to all that can be identified and addressed in certain ways.

In a way, we are doing this already quite naturally, and that is what this forum is all about. Perhaps we could develop some sort of loose system for educational purposes that would define some new terms, identify these common stages of development (if they exist), and examine the options of an individual effecting the situation. Or is this even a good idea as it could lead to interference in freewill?

I think it's a fantastic idea. Most of us are already quite aware of the need not to mistake the map for the territory, so I don't think such a system will present much of a danger.

A good way to implement it would be a website connected to a database. Each member could create a profile in the database including a biography, a journal, a timeline of important events/realizations, and more. The database could be accessed via a flowchart: you start by selecting a problem, then you are presented with events and choices which others have made pertaining to that problem, then you investigate their reported outcomes.

--Justin

7 Reply by Stephen M (edited by Stephen M 2004-10-31 17:53:53)

  • From: Saint Louis
  • Registered: 2004-08-21

Re: Levels of understanding and education

Hi czyx and lightwave,

czyx wrote:

I think it's a fantastic idea. Most of us are already quite aware of the need not to mistake the map for the territory, so I don't think such a system will present much of a danger.

A good way to implement it would be a website connected to a database. Each member could create a profile in the database including a biography, a journal, a timeline of important events/realizations, and more. The database could be accessed via a flowchart: you start by selecting a problem, then you are presented with events and choices which others have made pertaining to that problem, then you investigate their reported outcomes.

Tthat sounds like a great idea, I wish I had the resources to implement it, however on this concurrent thread, http://montalk.net/forum/viewtopic.php?id=815 , I see there is a similar idea being put forth and as Montalk is in the process of expanding the Noble Realms site, perhaps there will be room for something like this to be incorporated. I need to educate myself on the whole 'wiki' thing as I'm not sure how it works exactly. Matter of fact, now that I look it at it, it may be best at this point to continue this discussion on that thread for the sake of expediency. I will post a reference to this one over there.

lightwave wrote:

Hi Stephen,

For what it is worth...I think it is a great idea. Some of you are so much further along and can talk so poetically about it all, it is really cool, but I get lost sometimes in the words.

I need more information though...as it is hard to find......

I think a lot can be broken down into all sorts of useful information. People can take what they want so to speak and leave the rest.

Yes and that's what it's all about. Wer'e all at different levels of understanding on different but related subjects and each system of understanding has it's own vernacular and sometimes people who agree in principle will end up in an argument not even realizing that they agree with each other just over semantics. That is where relating a personal experience comes in handy as it allows a reader to enter ones reality and compare it with their own to see if it resonates as truth. The levels of understanding are endless but so are the points where they overlap, intersect, etc. These are the points where we can learn from each other and a sharing an experience can help 'ground' it to a level of common understanding.

Stephen