• From: Peru
  • Registered: 2004-08-06

Topic: Ayahuasca Visions

Hi all,

I introduced myself last night  (see introductions) and just taken Tom's advice of reading other posts about Ayahuasca, seeing as though it's something I'm really interested in.

After reading about JTs experience, and subsequent postings in that thread I get a feeling that quite a few people here have quite a negative view towards it so I want to balance that with my own feelings and experiences which are the complete opposite.

Now I'm not going to say there are no down sides to Ayahuasca and that everybody here should be taking it at every available opportunity!! Obviously from time to time people do have incredibly negative experiences that severely impacts their day to day life. However, from my knowledge and experience I think this is extremely rare. It's not something I would worry about in all honesty.

It's true that ayahuasca journeys are usually incredibly powerful experiences, and yes they do change your life more often than not. After leaving the aya temple it's pretty much a given that your entire world view will be changed. But for most people this is a very positive thing.

I've been to Brazil with Heart of the Initiate twice in the last 18 months. Each time I've been in a group of around 20 people and we've all drank ayahuasca between 3 and 4 times in the week. Next day we usually sit in a circle and share our experiences. The vast majority of people usually describe incredibly positive, beautiful & life enhancing experiences. Of the few experiences that could be described as negative, they've always been embraced as 'necessary'. Because even the darker, negative experiences ALWAYS contain powerful lessons. Mother Aya can occassionaly be a harsh teacher, but she's always fair!

My own personal experiences have been a mixture of positive and negative. Well perhaps negative is the wrong word, I prefer to say 'uncomfortable'. Aya's given my ego a severe bruising on a couple of occassions, but as uncomfortable as it was at the time, it was wholly necessary!

There is one particular positive experience I would like to attempt to share, although I know that any words I use will completely fail to do it justice.

It was my second journey, the 1st time I was in Brazil about 18 months ago. Now the first journey had been one of the uncomfortable ones. I'd had a lot of trouble letting go the first night, mainly due to fear. In fact I made the decision to sit out the second night, but in the end I was talked into by another person.

So the second night my intention was just to let go (It's always important to have an intention when you drink aya). I also drank a smaller dose but after a couple of hours very little was happening so I asked for a booster, and thats when I took off!

How do I describe it? It was like my consciousness somehow merged with the realm of the creator force. Or God Force as Stuart Wilde calls it.

Suddenley I felt this OVERWHELMING feeling of pure love pouring into my entire body from every angle. And this intense feeling stayed with me for about 4 hours I would guess. Try to imagine the best orgasm you've ever experienced, multiply that feeling by a million, and you still probably wouldn't come close to what I was experiencing for about 4 hours!

I don't know where this feeling came from exactly but what I know for sure is that it wasn't a chemical reaction happening in my body. I've tried a lot of different drugs particularly ecstasy, and although that feels great, you know it isn't real, you know it's just a chemical reaction taking place in your body that causes you to feel so good.

This ayahuasca experience was nothing like that. If felt like for the first time in my life I had a direct connection to God. Now I'm not a massive fan of David Icke but when he came out with "Infinite love is the only truth. Everything else is illusion" I had to agree with him after my aya experience. I know that infinite love is real  because somehow aya let me tap into it for a few hours. No words can adequately describe just how beautiful and completely overwhelming it was.

And so I will be forever grateful to Aya for giving that experience to me. It was way beyond what I could ever have expected from her. I intend to visit her temple as much as I possibly can in the future because I know she has so much more to teach me. And  I don't think I've spoken to anyone on a Heart of the Initiate workshop that has not wanted to return, such are the number of positive aya experiences people are having there.

If anybody here is interested in going to Brazil or whereever, I would say don't hesitate and go for it. But if it doesn't sound appealing then leave it, I would never try to talk someone into doing it.

Join me in Peru to celebrate December 21st 2012 - Visit: http://2012awakeningretreat.com/

Ayahuasca's Website

  • Registered: 2004-04-01

Re: Ayahuasca Visions

That sounds like quite an experience.  It is my understanding that in many areas of South America there is a long tradition of using Ayahuasca to gain knowledge and engage in healing.

I think that after "peak" experiences, one of the challenges is integration.  The task may be to take the knowledge gained and bring it into everyday life.

  • From: Peru
  • Registered: 2004-08-06

Re: Ayahuasca Visions

wandering1 wrote:

I think that after "peak" experiences, one of the challenges is integration.  The task may be to take the knowledge gained and bring it into everyday life.

Yeah you've definitely hit the nail on the head there. It has been a real challenge for me to integrate that experience with 'real life' and it's something I'm still working on. 18 months later I still don't feel I've  made a great deal of progress to tell the truth.

I know intuitively that that connection with god I experienced is available at all times, and doesn't require drugs to reach it (although they certainly help!). But I still haven't quite worked out how to make that connection yet.

wandering1 wrote:

It is my understanding that in many areas of South America there is a long tradition of using Ayahuasca to gain knowledge and engage in healing.

Yeah that's another thing I forgot to mention. Ayahuasca's primary use is for healing. Many people refer to ayahuasca as 'The Medicine', and for very good reason. It has amazing healing properties although nobody's really figured out why. It seems to cleanse and heal the body both physically and spiritually.

If you've read much about Ayahuasca then you've probably heard that it makes you throw up. This is very true and if you drink it you're almost guaranteed to puke your guts out within a couple of hours. This is called the Purge and trust me, you've never really puked until you've experienced your first ayahuasca purge!!

It can be quite a harrowing experience when it happens, but you feel amazing once it's finally over. You can literally sense all the bad crap and the toxins being purged out of your body. Not just physical junk but also the negative energy that can build up around you. And just when you think you've finally purged out every last drop of badness from within you, up comes some more!!

Also during an ayahuasca journey, it's quite common for people to feel themselves being worked on and healed by spirits. And then once the journey is over and you've slept for a few hours, you'll almost always wake up feeling wonderful. It often feels like you've been given a new body or had your old one 'upgraded'.

So yeah, Ayahuasca's definitely not a drug. It's a medicine.

Join me in Peru to celebrate December 21st 2012 - Visit: http://2012awakeningretreat.com/

Ayahuasca's Website

  • AZ1
  • Member
  • Offline
  • Registered: 2004-07-13

Re: Ayahuasca Visions

I've never tried Ayahuasca, but I would like to, or rather, DMT (Diemethyltryptamine).  DMT is the psychoactive agent in Ayhuasca, but something in the Ayahuasca brew contains an MAOI (monoamine oxidase inhibitor), which stops monoamine oxidase from breaking down DMT when it is being metabolized. 

I'm reading a fascinating book right now by Rick Strassman called DMT: The Spirit Molecule, in which this is all explained.  The human body actually produces DMT, but it is broken down as fast as it is produced.  Strassman theorizes that it is produced in the pineal gland, and is responsible for mystical or schizophrenic experiences.  The question is:  Is the experience caused by a simple chemical malfunction/change, or is it something more?  Is DMT really a "spirit molecule?"

  • From: Peru
  • Registered: 2004-08-06

Re: Ayahuasca Visions

AZ1 wrote:

I'm reading a fascinating book right now by Rick Strassman called DMT: The Spirit Molecule, in which this is all explained.  The human body actually produces DMT, but it is broken down as fast as it is produced.  Strassman theorizes that it is produced in the pineal gland, and is responsible for mystical or schizophrenic experiences.

I read the first 4 or 5 chapters to Strassmans book while in Brazil a few weeks ago. I'll have to buy it to read the rest because it wasn't my book, but yeah,  it was facinating and worth reading.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/ … 81-0640766


So far I haven't tried DMT on it's own, and although I would like to one day, I have very mixed feelings about it.

Most people describe DMT trips as extremely intense, much more so than Ayahuasca (and that's saying something!!). The effects are almost immediate, however it is a very short lived experince. A DMT trip usually lasts no more than 10 or 15 minutes.

The problem most people report having with DMT is that they don't usually learn anything useful from it. People often report having their consciousness literally blasted into another universe, but usually these DMT worlds are so alien and bizarre that they can't make sense of anything they are seeing.  Usually people have absolutely no frame of reference for anything they see on a DMT trip, and therefore they have no way of integrating the experience into normal life. It sounds almost like the most intense fair ground ride you're ever likely to experience. It's cool, fun, scary and exhilarating but ultimately fairly meaningless.

Ayahuasca on the other hand can sometimes give you a lifetime's worth of spiritual insights, in the space of one 5 or 6 hour journey.

AZ1 wrote:

The question is:  Is the experience caused by a simple chemical malfunction/change, or is it something more?  Is DMT really a "spirit molecule?"

In the case of Ayahuasca I now have ZERO doubt that there really is something more. A LOT MORE. In fact this was the main question I had for Ayahuasca when I went to Brazil a few weeks ago, and I definitely received my answers.

Ayahuasca doesn't translate as 'Vine of the Soul' for nothing!!

For the first time we also had a proper ayahuasca shaman leading the rituals and teaching us throughout the week. Learning from this guy was just amazing. A photo of him was posted on Stuarts website recently, although I think this was taken the week after I was there.

http://www.stuartwilde.com/Articles/SW_ … zation.htm

I have to say that I never witnessed the guy dematerializing! But I did witness some pretty amazing healings where I was watching him manipulate the energy in peoples auras and getting rid of all the bad shit. I couldn't see the auras myself, but it was obvious that he could.

On my second journey that week my intention was meet the spirit of the plant. And she definitely showed herself to me. The spirit of ayahuasca is very feminine, she's very playful and incredibly loving - Loving beyond words! I got the feeling these spirits are just waiting for us all to evolve. They're around us at all times and they're constantly reaching out to us.

I remember thinking how beautiful and loving they were, and I just wanted to be with them always. Then I had I few visions about all the destruction we're causing on this planet. Like how we're totally destroying the rainforests, and I started feeling an incredible sadness. I kept thinking 'how the f*ck can we be doing this!?? this is their environment too. Things aren't supposed to be this way. We're supposed to be living in harmony with nature, not raping it for all it's worth.'

Things will be ok eventually though. One way or another we will evolve. Mother Earth will see to that.

Join me in Peru to celebrate December 21st 2012 - Visit: http://2012awakeningretreat.com/

Ayahuasca's Website

  • From: NOTHING
  • Registered: 2004-09-03

Re: Ayahuasca Visions

Ayahuasca wrote:

It's true that ayahuasca journeys are usually incredibly powerful experiences, and yes they do change your life more often than not. After leaving the aya temple it's pretty much a given that your entire world view will be changed. But for most people this is a very positive thing.

Eight years ago I knew a guy who made LSD. He would be in possession of large ammounts of liquid LSD and would sometimes ingest large doses.

He told me about one of his trips when he took the equivalent of about 19-20 hits all at once. After a while he said he blacked out. Then he woke up and was outside his body! He said it was like he was just a spirit floating around.

I don't think (hope) I've ever taken that much, but I did have a similar experience on July 4, 1997 after ingesting a 1 inch x 1/4 inch strip of celophane bag COATED ON ONE SIDE WITH THE CRYSTAL FORM OF LSD. After ten minutes I was going really good and knew it was coming on TOO FAST. We watched a movie and while we did MY CONCIOUSNESS LEFT THE ROOM AND WENT SOMEWHERE ELSE DEEPER INSIDE ME. I was playing a 'game' inside my own conciousness (or I knew that the 'game' was 'the way reality was') but the problem was I DIDN'T EVEN TRY TO PLAY THIS 'GAME OF REALITY' inside my own conciousness, so as a result, I CONTINUALLY SANK DEEPER into the lower ranks of the players in this 'reality'!

What was weird about it was that my 'conciousness experinece' inside myself was partly influenced by the movie we were watching. I saw many scenes of the movie be 'torn apart' or 'phase shifted' out and back onto themselves. Entire scenes would record into me and present themselves back at Fast-Foreward speed . . .

At one point during the movie, I tried to talk to my friend sitting next to me but was having a hard time puting anything into words. They caught on that I couldn't talk and started trying to ask me things. I could hear them and understand what they were saying, but I just couldn't talk.

I am as is Void.

7 Reply by Xenopope (edited by Xenopope 2004-10-19 14:39:59)

  • From: NOTHING
  • Registered: 2004-09-03

Re: Ayahuasca Visions

Continuing from the David Icke thread -

http://montalk.net/forum/viewtopic.php?id=650

Ayahuasca wrote:

Ayahuasca: The Univeristy of Gaia
http://www.heartoftheinitiate.com/articles_gaia.htm

article wrote:

our perception expands beyond that to encompass a vastly greater reality that 'contains' 3-D. This expanded reality, or perhaps the 10-D or multi-D reality is not constrained by the timeline or even by causality.

so, things happen outside 3-D without any reason or cause for them to be happening?

maybe it's because the duality of cause and effect somehow cease to exist in the same way the duality of good and bad dissolve into only existence itself?

If there were no time, then how would one differentiate between an occurance being the effect or the cause?

I am as is Void.

8 Reply by Maydovus (edited by Maydovus 2004-10-20 03:40:53)

  • From: The infinte point
  • Registered: 2004-09-13

Re: Ayahuasca Visions

Xenopope Wrote
"If there were no time, then how would one differentiate between an occurance being the effect or the cause?"


There is a point were we are heading to, and at that point, which is a point of which is of undescribable feeling, Uncondtional Love, and at that point there is no time, no effect no cause, you just are, complete and whole!

All duality, timelines, dimensions are all encompassed into this whole,
and at this point we are all knowing, all being , all seeing and from there we know what we want to experience next and the next cycle continues!

"Life's not meant to be a struggle" Stuart Wilde
We are one and the same on a different path to the same destination
  • Registered: 2004-09-08

Re: Ayahuasca Visions

just to add a bit here, now that i see my ahuasca thread is not needed... 

Ive been listening to Terrance McKenna's MP3s about a workshop he did on phycadelics namely DMT/ahuasca. it can be downloaded on kazaa, edonkey etc...
I HIGHLY reccomend it, it gives detailed descriptions of what to expect, how to get the most from your experience and possiblilities for human evolution...  he belives that mushrooms and dmt have helped humans to evolve to what we have today... anyway myself and a friend are getting ready to try some so im very interested, now i have no fear as such about it, i feel im ready for it... and also i think it simply expands the range of frequencies we are able to see, it doesnt take u anywhere... it just allows you to see more of whats already there... just outside of our normal freq range...  as David Icke puts it.. it takes you to where you already are... but without the blinds down...

  • Haven
  • Haven
  • bull in a china shop
  • Offline
  • Registered: 2004-11-24

Re: Ayahuasca Visions

The closest knowledge I can contribute to this discussion is the theory of some people, forget which but I could find out, that each plant has it's own spirit.  That would explain why chemicals aren't as "wise" as natural plant drugs are.  I have seen a conclusion that the way people acquired all this knowledge in the past was from them asking these spirits, while tripping on them, specific questions and getting answers.  One vision I had read about was about two snakes that declared that they are the true gods of this world, being the archetype of the DNA strand.  The theory says that all knowledge and wisdom is already there, in DNA, and we just have our ways of accessing them.  Of course, our minds provide the mythology.

* When we start identifying wisdom with our ability to comprehend its form, what wisdom is that?
* Judge not, that ye be not judged. For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.
* People want platitudes, not progress.

11 Reply by morningsun76 (edited by morningsun76 2004-11-25 22:39:20)

  • morningsun76
  • morningsun76
  • the answer has been with you the whole time
  • Offline
  • From: In two worlds
  • Registered: 2004-09-10

Re: Ayahuasca Visions

Haven, I personally think it's more than a theory.. it's an incredibly strong sense you can get.  Someone I know quite well (cough) experienced direct contact with the Spirit of the mushroom after consuming several (legally in the Netherlands).  It was quite a mind-expanding experience and I believe wholeheartedly that this person continues to benefit from having had the experience.  It allows you to see the world from then on in new ways from a more universal perspective.  That's the best this person could put it into words.

  • From: Peru
  • Registered: 2004-08-06

Re: Ayahuasca Visions

Haven wrote:

The closest knowledge I can contribute to this discussion is the theory of some people, forget which but I could find out, that each plant has it's own spirit.

I have absolutely no doubt of that now. When I returned to Brazil last July my main intention was to try and learn whether ayahuasca really was a spiritual intelligence or was it just a chemical reaction in my brain. I definitely got my answer.

Ayahuasca, and probably most other entheogens, are far more than just a chemical reaction, which is ultimately why most drugs have an affect on you. The plants definitely have their own spirits and intelligence, and by ingesting ayahuasca the spirit is somehow able to work with you, teach you, and in many cases heal you.

Ayahuasca's main use among the indigenous cultures of the Amazon has always been for healing, for which it is extremely effective. However on a scientific/chemical level, neither plant used to make ayahausca has any obvious healing properties that can be determined. Of course the shamans will say that it's not the chemicals in the plants that heal but the spirit of the plants, and I have no doubt that's true.

The spirits that I communicated with in July were beautiful beyond words. They were playful, loving and definitely very feminine. And I just got the feeling they're all around us, waiting for us, and trying to help us.

Join me in Peru to celebrate December 21st 2012 - Visit: http://2012awakeningretreat.com/

Ayahuasca's Website

  • Registered: 2004-10-21

Re: Ayahuasca Visions

i guess this is a good place to tell my own encounter with ayahuasca...

it hit me quite rapidly, within 15 minutes time i found myself lying down flat on my back in a rather oblique sort of nappin' action sorta way. dim lights, tried some music in the back but had to shut it off. see, my taste in music is quite diverse and open-ended as far as consensus tolerance goes and what i've come to realize is alot of the ill xylophone-like and tranditional mbira of African decent that i cherish, love and listen to so casually anytime, any place, i found to be quite dark and disturbing while on ayahuasca. i for once felt the truely outlandishly honest, naked, energy of archaic beauty and raw rhythmic soul (that's also engrained in the whole ayahuasca signature) that is rarely experienced by conditioned westerners. Let me tell you, this female spirit of the forest holds within her an extraordinary coalescence of uncoventional wisedom rarely witnessed in human form.

As the visions began to grow, i kept constant with my invocation for her to please show me more than just pretty visions. i find that stuff almost a distraction even though it can be extremely pleasurable entering into 3 dimensional mosaics of constant metamorphose continuously being pulled towards some sort of spiritual conquest. Then it happened....
in my minds eye i entered what appeared to be some sort of magical room or dome shaped place of strange epiphany. it was in this room that  became a diamond form. i now see why toaist speak of the diamond consciousness as representing enlightenment. i entered this notion.

For roughly an hour, i experienced the elegant ordinance of Diamond consciousness and knew the answer to everything. because i was everything. all boundaries dissolved and i felt like i was dumped back into the sea of consciousness, no longer was i just a mere droplet any longer. No human form, this was what we are in "time-out land" or inbetween physical existences. i knew the universe continues into other galaxies, new life forms, higher forms of communication etc, all waiting to be created by the One consciousness (us).

During this time i couldn't even open or close (for that matter) my eyes because i was some sort of hypnotic agregate or totality, that there was really nothing to snap out of or into yet. Even slowly coming back to baseline, i couldn't glimpse what was in this dome and look around the room at the sametime in a threshold environment. was like 2 sides of the same coin. flip over and the page is turned.  that's as best as i can put it really..

I did experience a white flash that people who have NDE's talk about. No tunnel but man the flash is more than enough. its brighter than daylight i tells ya.

Well that's what i experienced and i hope to be able to explore once again when the time is right. (i don't like to plan these sorts of things, they must pull me instinctively)

Spirit and Oneness,
LoveParasite

--
"if you've lost your mind, you haven't lost much"

LoveParasite's Website

  • From: NOTHING
  • Registered: 2004-09-03

Re: Ayahuasca Visions

I've been wondering about this for a while so I'm gonna just post it here and hope someone can tell me what it means . . . it's part of the CD insert for Tool's Aenima album . .

Aenima insert wrote:

The anesthetic state produced does not fit into the conventional classification of stages of anesthesia, but instead produces a state of unconsciousness which has been termed "dissociative" anesthesia in that it appears to selectively interrupt association pathways to the brain before producing somesthetic sensory blockage. In contrast to other anesthetics, protective reflexes, such as coughing and swallowing are maintained under anesthesia. Variations in body temperature may occur. Although some salivation is occasionally noted, the persistence of the swallowing reflex aids in minimizing the hazards associated with ptyalism. Single intramuscular injection usually has a wide margin of safety select patience. Fasting prior to induction is not essential; however, when preparing for elective surgery, it is advisable to withhold food for at least six hours prior to administration. Restraint in subhuman primate neonates is difficult to achieve. The recommended restraint dosages for the following are: Papio cynocephalus, Pongo pygmaeus, 5 to 7.5 mg/kg; Aotus trivirgatus 10 to 12 mg/kg, Macaca fascicularis 12 to 15 mg/kg. A single intramuscuar injection produces restraint suitable for TB testing; radiography, physical examination or blood collection. To reduce the incidence of emergence reactions, subjects should not be stimulated by sound or handling during the recovery period. Apnea, respiratory arrest, cardiac arrest and death have occasionally been reported when used in conjunction with sedatives or other anesthetics. Close monitoring of patients is strongly advised during induction, maintenance and recovery. Timothy Leary identified a genetic type whose future circuits have begun to be activated and coined them FUTANTS. Futants are naturally selected to facilitate survival by being better adapted to explore the future and take risks through their genetic characteristics. Unless we provide a proper environment of freedom in which this positive genetic type can be recognized, operate in, and the dross be separated from the valuable information, we will  be depriving the race of a vital resource. Every time a scientist, philosopher, artist, or athelete pushes our thresholds to new ground the entire race evolves. Ritual Magik is a system of disciplines and exercises aimed at activating parts of the mind we might normally never use (about 85%). Through this system a better understanding of ourselves is attained. No true Ritual Magician has ever sacrificed life, drank goat's blood, or taken part in any other stupid urban legend ritual. This sort of behavior is left to the psychotic, dogmatic, fundamentalist believers you see on your T.V. everyday letting off bombs and killing people in the name of God. Beliefs are dangerous. Beliefs allow the mind to stop functioning. A non-functioning mind is clinically dead. Believe in nothing . . .

Opposite this page of the insert is a picture of a man who has a large open eye pointing up from the top of his head.

I am as is Void.

15 Reply by All2one (edited by All2one 2005-09-13 11:57:43)

  • Registered: 2005-08-14

Re: Ayahuasca Visions

Wow what an amazing experienses, and it's all make sense, those old shamans must be the most powerfull healers.
I had little alike experience but while i was in Vipassana meditation.
On the 7th day i satarted to reach subtler and subtler sensations and it came with strong and fast rise of consciousness frequency, at the end, in my highest peak, i felt like i have no physical body(or physical sensation) it felt like wind, like water and suddenly isaw my whole life like an entire object without time,I knew what my  complete purpose "here" and i felt that my heart was bursting with vrey strong love to all living, i didn't have any questions only answers, i wanted to hug every living being for their suffery and open their eyes to the truth, it lasted about 15 munutes.

But one of the reasons i did the meditation is the damage i got from drinking mushroom shakesan taking L.S.D in large doses in thailand.
I wish i had some spiritual knowelage when i consumed it - but i didn't, so at  the first time i had this amazing liquid  mushroom hallucinations, everything was moving ,dancing and pouring in front of my eyes, but because of my unreadiness after couple of times i got very strong paranoias. Though i did get some great insights about the "all" (the whole creation), the "none" (the void that everything comes from) and by looking at  the thai animals and insects behaviour i was completely sure that i understand the thai people's origin of mentality (must be ageographic\regional reason).

At the worst moment i felt like im alone in the whole universe and no one knows about my existence, i almost couldn't talk and i spent about 4 hours thinking that i will stay in that condition to the rest of my life.