• From: Peru
  • Registered: 2004-08-06

Topic: Can you do that?

I've just been having an email discussion with a friend of mine and sent him an excerpt from a book I have on peruvian shamanism. Anyway it always raises a smile when I read it and thought it was worth sharing with you guys. It reminds me why I'm so interested in shamanism


...Several years ago, Americo agreed to meet with a noted neurosurgeon and a
contingent of physicians and anthropologists who were studying indigenous
healing practices. He brought with him one of his teachers, a kuraq who
rarely left his village high in the Andes. Americo did not identify the
kuraq as Q'ero, although he well could have been since Americo was trained
primarily by Q-ero paqos. In any case, the meeting recounted below took
place in a hotel in Cuzco, where the neurosurgeon spent considerable time
quizzing Americo about his healing techniques and those of the Andes
regions. He then turned his attention to the kuraq.

"The doctor asked the shaman," Americo said, lowering his voice and speaking
in a mock serious tone, "'So, what is it you do?' The shaman did not answer
the doctor right away, and the doctor repeated his questions. Again, the
shaman did not answer. After several queries, the shaman finally said, 'if
that question interests you so much, you must be the one to answer it.'

"The doctor said, 'I am a neurologist. I can open your head and take out a
tumor the size of a nut. Then I can sew your head closed again, and you will
be able to walk. Can you do that?'

"The kuraq carefully considered the surgeon's words for a few minutes, then
he shook his head and said no, he could not. 'I cannot do those things,' the
kuraq admitted, 'but when you are dying, when you are growing cold and the
doctors have given up on you, then I can go out into the cosmos and bring
back your soul. I can put it back into your body, and then you may walk
again. Can you do that?'"

From "Keepers of the Ancient Knowledge" by Joan Parisi Wilcox

Join me in Peru to celebrate December 21st 2012 - Visit: http://2012awakeningretreat.com/

Ayahuasca's Website

  • From: terra incognita
  • Registered: 2004-03-25

Re: Can you do that?

An awesome passage for sure Ayahuasca, thanks!

Is the rest of the book as insightful? I don't doubt that you would suggest this for us to read, could you give a little mini-review about the rest of the book?

Today's mighty oak is just yesterday's nut that held its ground.
------
Life may not be the party we hoped for, but while we're here we might as well dance.
------
If you spin around on your chair really fast, things around here will make a lot more sense.

lol
  • Registered: 2004-04-10

Re: Can you do that?

Touche!   This really made my morning!  After working with many a doctor who carry around their "Apollo" complex for so many years-like a holy badge of honor; well you can only guess my smile of gratitude...

BTW good ol Al-one of my fav's-used to listen to his talk shows in my youngsta days; got my family hooked on all his books.

If there is no time
      Then you have time for everything.
   You're never in a hurry.
That's true freedom.
  • From: Peru
  • Registered: 2004-08-06

Re: Can you do that?

To be honest it's quite a few years since I read it so my memory of it is a little hazy. I remember I enjoyed reading it, but it's far from being one of the best books on shamanism. I found it a little dry and ocassionally boring in places.

There was one other part of the book that I found really interesting though and that was about Andean prophesy which although doesn't have a specific date, it does correspond to the same time period as the Maya 2012 prophesy. There were a few pages devoted to this subject in the book, although it never went into a great deal of depth, anyway I'll type in one paragraph:

As a paqo on the Andean path I am accutely aware of Andean prophesy, of the promise of a golden age during which we can step more fully into our energy bodies and manifest fantastic new levels of awareness on Earth. Therefore, one of my intentions as I interviewed the Q'ero for this book was to discuss the Taripay Pacha, the Age of Meeting Ourselves again. We are living in the midst of this nineteen-year period during which humanity has the potential to establish the energetic vibrations to foster our own spiritual evolution.

Join me in Peru to celebrate December 21st 2012 - Visit: http://2012awakeningretreat.com/

Ayahuasca's Website

  • From: terra incognita
  • Registered: 2004-03-25

Re: Can you do that?

manyeagles wrote:

Touche!   This really made my morning!

Well Touche to you too! wink Ayahuasca's last post might have made my year!!!!

Ayahuasca wrote:
Wilcox wrote:

Therefore, one of my intentions as I interviewed the Q'ero for this book was to discuss the Taripay Pacha, the Age of Meeting Ourselves again.

Ayahuasca,

I'm almost giddy with relief for reading this. My comment to manyeagles is just as much for you as is it for her.

This terminology, "the Age of Meeting Ourselves again", relievingly sounds so very much like what I've been experiencing for a few years, mostly the past 16 mos., only I've only known to call it "reintegrating alter-dimensional selves". I've even posted a thread about my experiences. In case you're interested it can be found here (be warned: it's long, and there are two there that pertain, though the second one is shorter)--

http://montalk.net/forum/viewtopic.php?id=397

Gosh Aya, have you experienced some of this too? If you have are you willing to talk about it? Oh man! I'm really hoping so!

Sheesh! I feel like a little kid standing at the new neighbors door asking the mom if their kid can come out to play.

big_smile big_smile big_smile

Today's mighty oak is just yesterday's nut that held its ground.
------
Life may not be the party we hoped for, but while we're here we might as well dance.
------
If you spin around on your chair really fast, things around here will make a lot more sense.

lol

6 Reply by Ayahuasca (edited by Ayahuasca 2004-10-08 11:10:15)

  • From: Peru
  • Registered: 2004-08-06

Re: Can you do that?

Auendove wrote:

Gosh Aya, have you experienced some of this too? If you have are you willing to talk about it? Oh man! I'm really hoping so!

I haven't really done any shadow integration yet. I've been avoiding it to be honest. I guess I'm scared of what I might find, but I know for certain I will do it when I feel ready.

Have you read anything by Justis Barrymore or even taken part in his workshop? If not I think you'll be really interested in this guy and what he has to say. He's a good friend of Stuart Wilde and Stu mentions him in quite a few of his articles - always referring to him as JC.

I was lucky enough to take part in a joint workshop between Justis and Heart of the Initiate in Brazil last year. Ayahuasca (the medicine) and Justis was an awesome combination let me tell you!

Anyway Justis' workshop is called Beyond Words and he takes you through a process which is basically about integrating the five aspects of self that he's identified. But more than anything it's about identifying and accepting the shadow aspect of yourself.

On his website:

Justis wrote:

This process is not like other workshops you may have attended. It’s more of an initiation. The information is given here for your “head“? first so you can experience the process naturally as it happens.

The process itself is like peeling an onion, removing layers and layers until you get to the place you want to go. But this doesn’t change who you are. You just end up being a smaller, rounder, shinier onion! You become more yourself as you go along. It is very easy.

This work has progressed over the last 14 years until now–when the full consciousness of spirit in matter in you can be released. There has been a lot of work up to this point, as far as working in the light. But the light work hasn’t really been effective.

When you look at the “light teachers“? such as Louise Hay, Deepak Chopra and others, they are giving out this magnificent consciousness.

But within that consciousness is an absolute denial that something is not working. How can you sit there day after day chanting “Everyday in every way my life is getting better and better,“? when the reality is that it’s not?

Two sides of You

What you will uncover during the workshop is two sides of you – two aspects. Through the workshop, these two aspects will become one. Think of those movies/cartoons where the main character has a little angel consciousness on one shoulder and a little devil consciousness on the other.

Those two are always at war with one another; they are always in opposing force. During this workshop you will get to speak with both aspects and they will surrender completely to give you an opportunity to see who you really are.

Da Vinci’s Vitruvian Man

To explain it more clearly, I have narrowed this concept down to five aspects that hold or lock you into this dimension. For example, think of Leonardo Da Vinci’s Proportions of the Human Figure–Vitruvian Man, created in 1490. This is the illustration of the man within a circle, his head, arms and legs extended to create five points.

During the workshop you will become this picture and you will see where Da Vinci (1452-1519) got his inspiration. You will unlock each point, one by one, giving you complete access to spirit being in your body.

http://www.justisbarrymore.com/beyondwords/index.htm

Anyway the 5 aspects are The Mask, The Ego, The Child, The Master & Blessing. I won't explain them all here because you can get a much better explanation on his website.

However I will briefly talk about my experience of one of them and that's The Child.

Now it's quite common to read about how you must 'discover your inner child' within new age and spiritual literature. I think a lot of people probably get sick of hearing things like that and I'm guessing it means very little to most people when they think about it seriously. I know that was the case with me before the workshop.

Anyway throughout the week Justis was talking a lot about discovering the inner child although usually referred to it as The Wounded Child. And I've got to be honest I didn't fully understand what he really meant. I guess I sort of grasped it in an intellectual way, but it meant very little on an experiential or emotional level....until my final ayahuasca journey that week.

Suddenly, about half way through my ayahuasca experience my child came through and suddenly I started experiencing all these really intense feelings of sadness and abandonment. "Why did you forget about me? Wher've you been? Why have you abandoned me all this time?" it kept saying to me. And it was such an emotional experience, in fact I'm not sure if I've ever experienced such intense emotions before. All I could keep saying was "I'm sorry I'm sorry, I didn't know you were there" or something like that. Anyway it was a pretty amazing experience overall and I totally understand now what people mean when they refer to the Inner Child. We really do have one!

As Justis says

Justis wrote:

Once you make it past the mask and ego and see the child for the first time, it is shocking and unbelievable. Most people are astonished that a child is even in there. To add to this, you discover that the child is wounded. As with the mask and ego, it is important to be able to name the wounded child inside you. To do this, you will need to acknowledge its separation from God. The child will show you who it is, it will tell you how it feels. You need to recognise that although the child is referred to here as “it“?, that “it“? is YOU. The only way to be able to get to Spirit, or the places you want to go is to acknowledge how you are living at this point, i.e. third dimensional reality. There’s no way around it.

This is where a lot of teaching goes haywire because they take you into these amazing experiences of God, spirit, love, divinity but you still have to pay your electricity bill. So you try to go to these amazing places but the child comes in and says, “No, you don’t! I’m going to make you feel, as an example, Unwanted and Abandoned and I’m going to make you feel like that until you acknowledge me.“? The child is in the driver’s seat. You are not going any further. You feel this constant separation. All of these aspects, Mask, Ego and Child are your darker aspects. They are the aspects that are really holding the whole thing together. This entire dimension is dark. It’s the lowest you can get. You can’t go any lower than 3D. It is real, it is solid, it is gravity and it is matter.

Pretty awesome don't you think? If you get a chance to get on one of his workshops then I totally recommend it. I'm hoping to do it again one day because there's still a lot I didn't fully understand. But I finally got the Child aspect that's for sure!

Andy

Join me in Peru to celebrate December 21st 2012 - Visit: http://2012awakeningretreat.com/

Ayahuasca's Website

7 Reply by Auendove (edited by Auendove 2004-10-08 18:31:22)

  • From: terra incognita
  • Registered: 2004-03-25

Re: Can you do that?

Ayahuasca wrote:

I haven't really done any shadow integration yet. I've been avoiding it to be honest. I guess I'm scared of what I might find, but I know for certain I will do it when I feel ready.

For me, I was the last to know, and only through the days after did I really get what had happened and was happening. I wasn't avoiding it, I didn't even know it was freaking there to be processed, much less avoided!

And as far as being scared goes, I'm not going to lie to you, it is scary, it's a <bleepin'> darkling horror show dude, but it won't happen unless you are ready like you say. No doubt Higher Self must've felt like I was perfectly ready to slap that one on me. Like I reported in my post the Shadow Self was the antithesis of me, fiery and hot, without a morsel of care for others. Pure corruption, that was what I found. It was disgusting. For hours all I felt was her darkling energy like it was my own. Just bizarre.

But Aya, I wouldn't throw her off then, I see the outright beauty of having her and all her shadowy ugliness realized... and, boy-howdy, I'm really proud of myself for getting through it... in tact big_smile.

It was an awesome experience first, a scary one second.

Ayahuasca wrote:

Have you read anything by Justis Barrymore or even taken part in his workshop? If not I think you'll be really interested in this guy and what he has to say. He's a good friend of Stuart Wilde and Stu mentions him in quite a few of his articles - always referring to him as JC.

I was lucky enough to take part in a joint workshop between Justis and Heart of the Initiate in Brazil last year. Ayahuasca (the medicine) and Justis was an awesome combination let me tell you!

I've just read the website. I'm going to study it further and compare it to my experience... what a cool opportunity. I see there are articles to read there as well.

I'm not one to take part in workshops, my experiences of recollecting personality characterized energies were all spontaneous, and I prefer it this way, I like the "natural" approach, when it's time it's time, and the only consciousness altering substance that was used was my consciousness... I know "the medicine" is a natural substance, but the consciousness is purer wink. The body does not produce Ayahuasca naturally as a part of its system, but the consciousness is a different story (now who made who again? smile ).

These are my thoughts, they say nothing about you or anybody else. I think there's been, ahem, discussions on the board about substance influenced experiences and ones that aren't (or something like that), I could care less if someone else does, as long as they're not being coerced into "an experience". I have two dearest friends who have participated in two retreats this year where Davine (spelling?) was the natural plant substance utilized by their Shaman. Their insights and happenings were fascinating, and no less valuable than mine. I have no problem with their or your journey choice, it's just not for me.

And anyway the idea of puking scares the stuffing's out of me big_smile. GACK!

Ayahuasca wrote:

However I will briefly talk about my experience of one of them and that's The Child.

...

Anyway throughout the week Justis was talking a lot about discovering the inner child although usually referred to it as The Wounded Child. And I've got to be honest I didn't fully understand what he really meant. I guess I sort of grasped it in an intellectual way, but it meant very little on an experiential or emotional level....until my final ayahuasca journey that week.

Suddenly, about half way through my ayahuasca experience my child came through and suddenly I started experiencing all these really intense feelings of sadness and abandonment. "Why did you forget about me? Wher've you been? Why have you abandoned me all this time?" it kept saying to me. And it was such an emotional experience, in fact I'm not sure if I've ever experienced such intense emotions before. All I could keep saying was "I'm sorry I'm sorry, I didn't know you were there" or something like that. Anyway it was a pretty amazing experience overall and I totally understand now what people mean when they refer to the Inner Child. We really do have one!

Yeah, for me I thought "How could I let this happen? How could I not have heard this howling infant in my consciousness?" Holy mole amigo! It still shakes my head with disbelief that I had no idea there was a piece of me in this condition. It's funny, I was a breech baby, born patootie first. I've often laughed thinking about how much that sounds like a first conscious rebel "stature". I think (being mirthful now) I was screaming bloody murder before I ever left the tomb/womb, "I don't wanna go back there, I don't care what Soul wants, DON'T MAKE ME GO BACK THERE!" Heeheehee, when I then realized, in all my infant wisdom wink, that it was out of my hands, and I would arrive in one fashion or the other, I chose to moon 'em all within eyeshot! "Get a load of this suckers!" LOL!

Ahem...

Hunh! All these aspects of ourselves are kind of like "undercover agents" of Higher Self, huh? Does that make sense to you Aya?

Huhn! I wonder what the connection is between the Inner Child and abandonment issues and the idea, if I can relate this correctly, that at some deep level we all feel abandoned by "God", that organized religion perpetuated this perception of disconnection as a form of control... the dig is, when one "wakes up" they realize that "God" is in everything, if they can even believe in something anymore. On another page a month or so ago ehhnus (NR member) was wondering/musing if "God" was like a child, this idea so intrigued me. I'm even more intrigued now.

I suppose it's not a stretch to put together "God" and the Inner Child, a no-brainer actually (good job ehhnus!), but did the organizers of religion as a social infrastructure for mass control know the importance of burying the Inner Child? Is that a strange thought-ball?

Ayahuasca wrote:

Pretty awesome don't you think?

I think it's all awesome; you, him, and the opportunity to learn more about this process. Andy, to have someone to converse with about this, who understands and speaks the same language for having been-there-done-that, is in itself an awesome joy... this thread and the info is a prayer request answered, seriously.

Justis Barrymore wrote:

This is why sometimes you might feel you are on a roll, everything is going really well, things are falling into place, it’s all brilliant and then WHACK, something happens and you get shut down.

Now, this man really speaks my language! Whack!, it's one of my lastest favorite words. big_smile  I got a lot out of reading through his material, but this put a big smile on my face when I read it.

Thanks Andy, it's meant a lot to me. Ya got anything else? big_smile

Today's mighty oak is just yesterday's nut that held its ground.
------
Life may not be the party we hoped for, but while we're here we might as well dance.
------
If you spin around on your chair really fast, things around here will make a lot more sense.

lol
  • From: Saint Louis
  • Registered: 2004-08-21

Re: Can you do that?

Hi to all on this thread, 

I've found the topic of shamanism and integrating alter-dimensional selves very fascinating. I've checked out Justis Barrymore's site as well as Auendove's post of her experience, thanks to both of you.

Up until recently, I've avoided exploring shamanism (although I've always respected it) as I was afraid of having to learn a new system of symbolism and concepts on top of those I am already processing.

I now find myself very attracted to it and want to dive in. Could anyone point me the way to some good sources of info? Thuen Mares, perhaps?

I consider myself somewhere in the begining to intermediate stage as I'm familliar with Casteneda's stuff (a while ago) and more recently Stuart Wilde. I've also had an Ayahuasca experience (actually DMT) years ago which occurred somewhat by accident.

Thanks, Stephen

9 Reply by Ayahuasca (edited by Ayahuasca 2004-10-09 02:07:32)

  • From: Peru
  • Registered: 2004-08-06

Re: Can you do that?

Stephen M wrote:

I now find myself very attracted to it and want to dive in. Could anyone point me the way to some good sources of info? Thuen Mares, perhaps?

Hi Stephen

To be honest I haven't read lots of books on shamanism and I'm certainly no expert on the subject. But there are a few I can recommend.

The first one I've just noticed is not available on Amazon.com anymore, although I know it used to be. You can get it from Amazon.co.uk though. Anyway it's

Journey To You : A Shaman's Path To Empowerment by Ross Heaven
http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASI … 73-8950008


Ross also has another book which I haven't read but I plan on getting it:

Spirit in the City
http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASI … 73-8950008

Another book I read a long time ago, which I definitely remember was very good and worth reading is Urban Shaman by Serge Kahili King. This is about Hawaiian (Huna) shamanism and how to apply shamanic wisdom to modern life.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/de … mp;s=books


Then there's two classics on the subject which I have to confess I've not got round to reading yet but I will do eventually. These are:

Shamanism: Archaic Techniques of Ecstasy  by Mircea Eliade
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/ … 80-9530300

Way of the Shaman  by Michael Harner
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/de … mp;s=books

Andy

Join me in Peru to celebrate December 21st 2012 - Visit: http://2012awakeningretreat.com/

Ayahuasca's Website

  • From: Peru
  • Registered: 2004-08-06

Re: Can you do that?

There's also an essay I came across a few days ago. I haven't read all of it yet, but what I've read so far was interesting. I'll post the introduction here:

Shamanism: Grace and Madness
An Apprenticeship to Ayahuasca and San Pedro

by Alan Shoemaker


INTRODUCTION

Shamanic healing has been here for thousands of years and will remain. During the "Age of Reason", we were led away from believing in things we could not see and hear; that we could not place in our hands and feel its weight. This contrived reality found its way to the Americas a little over 500 years ago and through force of arms, unknown viruses and the Spanish Inquisition, it ravaged cultures and humiliated the medicine men, taking away their Gods and forcing them into submission. There remained, however, a few daring souls who continued to practice their magic, hidden away from the death threats of the conquistadors.

At the University in Iquitos, Peru, can be found a scientist hard at work in his test tube laden lab processing one of the Sacred Power Plants, ayahuasca, into powder form. Ayahuasca is an entheogenic and medicinal cocktail that has been used for thousands of years by the jungle shamans. For years now, the professor has been busy trying to decipher the secrets of this ancient medicine, with few new results. The efforts in determining the alkaloids necessarily present to produce visions and hallucinations were easily accomplished, but as the professor says, "We still can not figure out how a group of five people all drinking the same ayahuasca at the same time can have the same hallucination at the same instant." Such is the pity in being a scientist.

"What you are trying to measure or weigh cannot be done." I said. "Whatever intricacies of this medicine you are trying to intellectually discover will always leave you one short. No matter what you do, how many tests you make, or how numerous the compounds you find, your scientific method will never get you to the bottom of this mystery. Why? Because you can not measure God. You can not weigh the Divine."

"Yes, I know that." He said. "But I am a scientist. This is what I must search for; what I have to do."

What a thankless task, looking for the Light in a test tube. Maybe he'll find it one day. Einstein did. Then he joined the Church. How do you factor the Divine into a scientific formula?

Science has come upon an interesting phenomenon within their studies of Quantum physics: The outcome of an event can be influenced by its viewers. It has taken them until now to discover what the shamans have known forever.

The shaman, the "Maker of Myths", who classically keeps one foot in this world and the other with the spirits, is not to be confused with the brujo or witch, dancing with evil. Both are powerful. A shaman "holds hands with the Divine" working as a medium between this World's reality and the spiritual realm. They charm the divine into their rituals by prayer and song. Their's is a world of visions and hallucinations; a world of Grace and Madness. In these days there is an incredible need to keep your immune system high. It has been confirmed by allopathic medicine that ayahuasca and the other Sacred Power Plants are doing just that. According to some of the healers from Mexico, Ecuador, and Peru, the Sacred Power Plants might also affect a cure for AIDS.

Within the mythologies handed down from the mountains of the Andes to the jungles of the Amazon is the same prognostication: The circle has come round - the time is now. Shortly, we will witness a move back to the magic and etherealness of our ancestors, and the rebirth of Shamanism. It is in that realm that we shall ultimately heal all our wounds, for it is there that the soul, the body, and the mind are one and can be cured as a whole, rather than in parts.

Perhaps in the last five hundred years the focus of our world, on industralization, technology and progress, has moved too fast. As for me, I have taken a giant step back, together with the knowledge of the present, to the medicine forgotten, to the curative powers of the plants and their spirits, to the healers who work through nature cleansing the body and who, through the all-encompassing divination's of the spirits and the Gods, purify the soul. For in that place we heal not only our physical selves, but we continually connect with the universal life force carried within each of us and shared by all. The more each and every one of us, throughout the World, understands this principle, and the sooner we realize that a sickness of the body, mind or spirit is within the ether that we all share, the more likely that we, as a whole, will begin to live in health, peace and harmony."

http://chinchilejo.yage.net/grace.html

Join me in Peru to celebrate December 21st 2012 - Visit: http://2012awakeningretreat.com/

Ayahuasca's Website