Topic: Katabasis and metanoia

wikipedia wrote:

Modern psychology

In modern psychology, the term katabasis is also sometimes used to describe the depression some young men experience.[2] Author Robert Bly proposes in his book 'Iron John: A Book About Men several reasons for the "catabasis phenomenon", amongst them the lack of Western initiation rites and the lack of strong father figures and role models.
[edit]Trip into the underworld

See also: Descent to the underworld
Katabasis is the epic convention of the hero's trip into the underworld.[3] In Greek mythology, for example, Orpheus enters the underworld in order to bring Eurydice back to the world of the living.
Most katabases take place in a supernatural underworld, such as Hades or Hell — as in Nekyia, the 11th book of the Odyssey, which describes the descent of Odysseus to the underworld. However, katabasis can also referto a journey through other dystopic areas, such as what Odysseus encounters on his 20-year journey back from Troy to Ithaca. Pilar Serrano[3] allows the term katabasis to encompass brief or chronic stays in the underworld, including those of Lazarus and Castor and Pollux.

Wikipedia wrote:

Metanoia (from the Greek ????????, metanoia, changing one's mind, repentance) is a word which has a few different meanings in different contexts.
Metanoia in the context of theological discussion, where it is used often, is usually interpreted to mean repentance. However, some people argue that the word should be interpreted more literally to denote changing one's mind, in the sense of embracing thoughts beyond its present limitations or thought patterns (an interpretation which is compatible with the denotative meaning of repentance but replaces its negative connotation with a positive one, focusing on the superior state being approached rather than the inferior prior state being departed from.)

Psychological Meaning

In Carl Jung's psychology, metanoia indicates a spontaneous attempt of the psyche to heal itself of unbearable conflict by melting down and then being reborn in a more adaptive form. Jung believed that psychotic episodes in particular could be understood as existential crises which were sometimes attempts at self reparation. Jung's concept of metanoia influenced R. D. Laing and the therapeutic community movement which aimed, ideally, to support people whilst they broke down and went through spontaneous healing, rather than thwarting such efforts at self-repair by strengthening their existing character defences and thereby maintaining the underlying conflict.

A change in mind, in perception.  Discuss please.



"Blinded by self-importance....the visionaries of society haven't the vision of a blind musician nor the perception of a churchmouse_"
~~carefulcarpenter

Fun fact: Great Tits are common in Europe

To know love is to know trust; to know oneself is to know truth
~~carefulcarpenter


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Re: Katabasis and metanoia

http://forum.noblerealms.org/viewtopic. … 209#p58209



[center]http://forum.noblerealms.org/pics/555_images.jpg[/center]



[right]http://forum.noblerealms.org/viewtopic.php?id=4132[/right]

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Re: Katabasis and metanoia

smile

Balance.  When intellect dominates intuition aliens are empowered. I question whether hermits have any sense of balance.

Fun fact: Great Tits are common in Europe

To know love is to know trust; to know oneself is to know truth
~~carefulcarpenter


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Re: Katabasis and metanoia

titmouse_ wrote:

smile

Balance.  When intellect dominates intuition aliens are empowered. I question whether hermits have any sense of balance.

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I think intellect is very important.  I think intuition is relative to a person having a foundation of knowledge and information.  The greater it is the better a person's intuition will be.  I've read that to really understand an emotion like love or sympathy a person must become love or sympathy for a period of time.  It is something that I read and kept thinking about and it has been making more and more sense to me.

I've read some of John Bly and Robert Moore.  They mention ritual often.  Crossing a limen into heated space to under-go Initiation.  I get the impression that most people believe they know the extent to which they can enter into darkness and do harm.  In many cases though, they really find out only after actually doing something very dark.  Or after a more or less lengthy period of doing harm.  In many cases the extent of harm done is only in negative thought and words directed toward others in pretty much habitual pattern of behavior.  In reality, it is to a great extent very important what a person actually has running through their heads; their thoughts.  It is important for a person to realize what is important in their life.  Many people go through life with some petty desire that for some reason they never fulfill.  I say petty desire, when truthfully, this petty desire which they for whatever reason never fulfill seems extremely important to the individual and leads most often to destructive behavior, when it is never realized.  What is important?  What a person attracts to his life is related very much to what this person becomes. 

I've seen examples given of what it might look like for someone to melt down.  They walk around as if they are a simpleton or an innocent little child or very confused for a period of time.  Maybe they have took in a lot of knowledge, been involved in many experiences especially ones very stressful and they reach a zero-point, or laya center, which becomes a portal to a higher state of being.  If a person never receives Initiation a certain number of times in their life, they still can treat their entire life as Initiation by living in the right way.  It certainly doesn't hurt, the battles won in this life will not have to be fought again in the next.  The battles are about whatever it is that hinders a man in becoming more than what he is.

Good judgement comes from experience; experience comes from bad judgement.
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You have to believe in the impossible in order to become.

Re: Katabasis and metanoia

I believe being in oneness is a state of balance. Intellect is a factor of ego; intuition is of spirit. One being rational, the other irrational. When these are in balance our perceptions change from when they are in extreme disproportion. I deduce from what I have read that katabisis is the result of imbalance. This makes rational sense to me, yet from a sense of intuition(based on experience rather than fact)I feel this is true.

If you and others would discuss this from the rational approach I will attempt to balance the intellectual with the emotional. We may entertain a slight metanoic insight into balance. Please indulge me in a slightly different approach to discussion.


Karmic Katabasis [center]http://forum.noblerealms.org/pics/555_images.jpg[/center] [right]http://badri.blogspot.com/2006/05/karmic-katabasis.html[/right]
*note: Thanks for graphic from SiriArc

Fun fact: Great Tits are common in Europe

To know love is to know trust; to know oneself is to know truth
~~carefulcarpenter


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Re: Katabasis and metanoia

http://forum.noblerealms.org/post.php?t … ;qid=68154

kid mongo wrote:

Mixing truth with disinfo? I dunno about that. either. You just have to prove this for yourself if transcending the mind is worth your time. I think you hit the nail squarely on its head with your comment about ridding the mind of from distracting thoughts. Good/Bad is an illusion of the mind system, obviously, and it needs the friction generated by mental dualistic constructs to keep itself, and the illusion of duality, alive. This is hard to fathom with the mind alone, since the mind cannot "see" itself. The mind consciousness system truly is "the Veil."

mind-consciousness-intellect?

Fun fact: Great Tits are common in Europe

To know love is to know trust; to know oneself is to know truth
~~carefulcarpenter


1+1=1

Re: Katabasis and metanoia

titmouse_ wrote:

http://forum.noblerealms.org/post.php?t … ;qid=68154

kid mongo wrote:

Mixing truth with disinfo? I dunno about that. either. You just have to prove this for yourself if transcending the mind is worth your time. I think you hit the nail squarely on its head with your comment about ridding the mind of from distracting thoughts. Good/Bad is an illusion of the mind system, obviously, and it needs the friction generated by mental dualistic constructs to keep itself, and the illusion of duality, alive. This is hard to fathom with the mind alone, since the mind cannot "see" itself. The mind consciousness system truly is "the Veil."

mind-consciousness-intellect?

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I don't understand what is being said above.  Anything that is not permament can be called illusion.  My physical body is an illusion.  It has been proven by observing genetic material inserted into a chamber which contains photons moving in chaotic patterns, with the effect photon movement become cohesive, even more, that when the genetic material is removed, the photons maintain this coordinated pattern of motion.  Matter is energy, congealed light.  So why can't I transmute lead into gold?  change a rattlesnake into a cuddly cat?  Stop Sun for a day?  It is because the person typing this is not the aspect of the person which is the true source of causes.  My Spirit has no discordance with the Spirit of another.  My lower human Ego is another story.

badriblogspot is excellant, titmouse.  I enjoy reading the poems.  I'm doing it analytically though. tongue

Good judgement comes from experience; experience comes from bad judgement.
----------------------------------------------------------
You have to believe in the impossible in order to become.

Re: Katabasis and metanoia

"Passion breeds talent"
~~Stanislas Dehaene,  mathmetician, cognitive researcher, neuropsycholgist

Fun fact: Great Tits are common in Europe

To know love is to know trust; to know oneself is to know truth
~~carefulcarpenter


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9 (edited by titmouse_ 2007-11-21 12:24:11)

Re: Katabasis and metanoia

"Pieta"
Michelangelo Buonarroti, 1498/9-1500
[center]http://forum.noblerealms.org/pics/555_images.jpg[/center]
[right]http://www.answers.com/topic/piet-7?cat=technology[/right]

Fun fact: Great Tits are common in Europe

To know love is to know trust; to know oneself is to know truth
~~carefulcarpenter


1+1=1