Re: The Dead Series.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FP6d8UcZI3I  The DESIGN of LUCK as Miracles
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0BoZ4iSYLxw  The DESIGN of RACISM to Separate Man
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1S7k0ugbyZ4  The DESIGN of INSPIRATION as Personality
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DOvcXM4Nj_s  The DESIGN of THE ADRENALINE Junky
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jGtpyvji-1Q The DESIGN of THE NEW WORLD ORDER- The Next Phase
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sDA_wy7yfwk Martin Luther King: AfterLife: Why God Abdicated

There will be two Ages. The first: The Age of Power. The next: The Age of Equality.

Re: The Dead Series.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yw2lYbtr4U4 The DESIGN of ART in the Unified Field

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9zjcmmX0FPs The DESIGN of TIME LOOPS to face self truth

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fr-9RV_lLqk The DESIGN of SCIENTIFIC Influences in the Unified Field

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JEH-Hpv6I1k The SOLUTION as EQUALITY in Practical Application

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wjxbqUmK5Z4 The SOLUTION as SELF WILL as SELF POWER

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vIWepzy2KwE The SOLUTION as SELF HONESTY as LIFE

There will be two Ages. The first: The Age of Power. The next: The Age of Equality.

Re: The Dead Series.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xnngJUrvbaA The SOLUTION as AMALGAMATION as LIFE to be FREE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V4WfMno6af8 The SOLUTION as WRITING YOURSELF to FREEDOM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KNhfkz7Aa0Q The SOLUTION as SELF FORGIVENESS as LIFE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P0LYfKTwhbQ The SOLUTION as ATTENTION as Breath of Life

There will be two Ages. The first: The Age of Power. The next: The Age of Equality.

199 (edited by persephonevii 2007-11-19 15:36:38)

Re: The Dead Series.

A question about Desteni:

I watched her video on 'Voices in the Mind- A TRAP'. I'm pretty sure most of us can relate to these voices (or is it just me?). Anyway, Desteni said we should discount and ignore ALL the voices in our head, and reign in our curiosity regarding them. But she described these voices as dis-empowering to the self, eg: 'You can't do that!', 'You're an idiot! Stop it!', etc. etc. Real limiting thoughts. But what if the voice was in fact the opposite, empowering and encouraging? Should we really then cut out ALL the voices, even the ones that speak in a positive manner?

Is this another example of mixing the truth with some disinfo? Or, is it a case of ridding yourself of any distraction and duality (eg: good voice vs bad voice) instead?

Re: The Dead Series.

Hi there Kid Mongo,

Nice to meet you here on this forum. I have developed serious concerns about this desteni-group. I have just posted these concerns on the desteni -forum (see http://www.desteni-universe.co.za/forum … php?t=1919) I'm not sure if they allow that message to remain there, because the text is more critical than before.

I really registered to noble realms to explore Robert Monroe's concept of loosh (see http://forum.noblerealms.org/viewtopic.php?id=6091). I was much surprised to find that the desteni-group decided to ask 'Robert Monroe' himself to write a bit on their site. It was this message at http://www.desteni-universe.co.za/Osho/ … onroe1.htm that triggered this response below.

Perhaps it is not suited to place it here as well, but it might revive some discussion in this thread.


INTRODUCTION
Life can be an amazing ride. In the early Desteni youtube days in August this year Eagle asked me if I had any wishes for certain deceased ones to speak through the portal. One of my requests back then was Robert A. Monroe. Well, as you know many things have changed in my perspective on the Desteni group since then. Click on the links above to get a better understandings of the differences that have grown during the months.

Since the beginning of September I started to retract from the group, mainly because I started to doubt the intentions of those speaking through the portal. During my last 'retraction period' I got once again attracted to one of the concepts that were presented by Robert Monroe in his second book 'Far Journeys'. The concept of the Monroe Bands had been mostly confirmed by those speaking through the desteni portal. I wanted to see how another major idea from his books would fit into my reality-perspective: the loosh-concept.

Since then I have written about four pages on the topic when I took a look at Desteni's site once again to see what is going on down there in South Africa. I was quite surprised to see the name of Robert Monroe in the same list with beings like Veno and Jack. This may be a coincidence, but perhaps some of the desteni-readers noticed this development on my site. I cannot tell. I do want to 'study' the words that are supposedly from the being that lived a life as 'Robert A. Monroe' until his death in 1995.

A Text from Robert Monroe?
Well, I want to comment as a read the text which can be found at Desteni. I have chosen for this approach because I have learnt from the past that as soon as I delay writing about desteni matters, the differences between our realities increase to such an extent that I don't want to write anything anymore. So, let's write while I still have the energy to do so. I intend to jump from quote to quote and see how far I can get. The quotes are within the green blocks and can be found at the site I just mentioned. Off we go!

...though, this ‘Robert Monroe’ as who I was – was nothing more than an implanted system of this world, filled, aligned, formed, designed of technological information constructs – much like the technological advanced mind’s of which human beings consists of and have become, which will die, and will only continue to exist as memories within the minds of others as the unified consciousness field.
That's a nice way to start: Robert Monroe was nothing more than an implanted system of this world. When I continue reading I already sense the same old messages being reiterated again. I don't even feel like going into a discussion about the possible identity of the one speaking, nor am I inclined to seriously talk about the ideas presented. Let's try some more...

You ‘design’ that which you are – the controllers, designed control to control the controlled through technologically designed mind systems as control. Technologically designed mind systems designed technology = the equation is simple, the equation is obvious.

... I have the answer to the question why we are not free, which I mentioned before: The technological mind system that exist within and as each and every single individual human being – it is just an answer though, just an answer – like an answer to a question, though, this answer is an answer to a question asked and answered from standing as all as one as equal: Oneness and equality. No human being has taken into consideration themselves as all as one as equal: The one ‘law’ of existence: Oneness and equality.

Then again: Here is the answer to the question from the perspective of standing as all as one as equal: Will you ‘see’ this, will you ‘realise’ this – that your own mind as thoughts, feelings and emotions is of the technological mind system design placed within each and every single human being, born into a system as system – to be controlled – that is the cause, the reason for why and how freedom is non existent and why and how this world has become the very destruction of ourselves – yet the advancement of the field of technological evolution.

And here's for some more 'we are all bad systems'-rap:

So we have the world, humanity searching and seeking for ‘truth’ and ‘freedom’ – well, here I give perspective for why we are not free – the cause of enslavement is the mind of thoughts, feelings and emotions that exist within human beings – enslaved by information as words with definitions – a technological mind system of constructed information. ... We’ve become systems – building system – you manifest, build and design that which you are – this is proven if you look within this world – and what’s most fascinating is that each human being has a mind system – that which ‘thinks’ that which ‘feels’ that which become ‘emotional’ – and because everybody is this, this mind system – it is accepted by all as ‘who we are’ – but how can this mind system be ‘who we are’ if it dies at death – and no longer remains at death? I am an example of this – as I have stated – I am not the Robert Monroe as what and who I was on earth – here I am as the words I type.

Then the being goes on to question definitions of words. It eventually advocates to stop searching, to stop thinking and to stop feeling. It is the well-known desteni message once again, told in a word-twisting manner (see about the semantic war in the article 'Is the Portal Being Fooled?'). I do still trust my ability to think and to feel and this message sure feels distorted.

Such questions, is only able to be answered for yourself, by yourself, if the technological mind system of constructed information cease to exist within you – no more participation in thoughts, feelings and emotions – and together with the process of ceasing the existence of the technological mind system of constructed information within and as you, live words – ‘become’ the living word – stop searching and live.

A thing that I find rather unsettling is the strength of this distortion. Somehow it seems to be growing stronger. Would Veno and co. actually be gaining momentum? Would they really already have so many followers, perhaps we can call them 'destenians', who give them their energy? Who are willing to give away their power to think, their power to feel? People who feed these demons by thinking that they are doing a good thing by stopping their mind? Would people have actually forgotten that the mind is infinite, when used properly? Perhaps it would be better to close the door to them immediately and forever? Let's move on for a little while longer, though.

So – if each and every single human being within this world – stand within and as oneness and equality as all as one as equal – stop the existence of the mind system of thoughts, feelings and emotions, pictures and memories, information and knowledge – and ‘become’ the living word – living words – living ‘freedom’ as one as equal as self = ‘freedom’ as oneness as equality as all as one as equal will be and become the manifested experience and expression of who we are as all as one as equal – this, to me – is ‘freedom’ – when the technological mind system cease to exist – each and every single human being, live the word ‘freedom’ as self, within and as oneness and equality as all as one as equal as who we are = this is where ‘life’ is born in the physical – who we are as the living word. Though – yet again – hear my words – this ‘freedom’ as who we are as all as one as equal as the living word – which each live within and as oneness and equality as all as one as equal – will only exist: If the mind system cease to exist within and as each and every single human being.

It is fascinating indeed and I am quite impressed: they have really developed their own destenian tongue, which is awkwardly hypnotizing. To me it feels like when you read these words you are already tapped into, you become trapped, as if you are caught by a demonic web which is designed to kill off your mind. It is like monotonous sounding drums that can put your mind in a spell, making you into a puppet for them to use. To me it feels as if their words are slowly infecting the mind, paradoxically turning people into destenian systems.

I didn't expect myself to be using this kind of terminology, but I think it is necessary. They really are learning to poison the minds of those visiting their site or who watch their videos. You are bound to get caught in their web, especially when you are inclined to be a follower. The words 'oneness and equality' feel like a curse to me when they are used by them. Am I starting to get paranoid here, or is there really something seriously demonically wrong with this group? It has been interesting to watch this phenomenon develop. Let's just hope it won't brainwash too many people into mindless destenian puppets.

Words don't mean a thing. Words make all the difference in the world.

Re: The Dead Series.

GIBBON--i am thrilled to see u here and posting.  u r most welcome and im glad ur here.  i almost emailed u the other day when u posted about Z3's comments and about the newer (if one will, since ive never seen it that way before...) thoughts on loosh production.  as in "good loosh"  if i may.  i took it that way, anyway.  i almost referred ppl to it on here, but changed my mind.  laziness more than anything being the reason.  it was a great new addition to ur work.  i have read everything u have written lately, and agree with ur thinking.   its very admireable that u have spent such time and energy on ur conclusions or conjectures.  way way back i found desteni i think because of your work and i go there often.  i read the forum entries at least once a week.  too bad nothing came further from Osho.  many 'things' it seems, have changed, since then, it seems to me.  a different tone/flavor.   it firstly attracted me secondary to WIH, and then it did a fair job on awareness vs consciousness, which i elaborated on back in the old WIH thread.  which, has not seen action in months.  i still look around for stuff that i could post in that thread, but not so much stuff portends, again, it seems.   glad ur here and adding to to the mix.  ur site needs to be linked adequately.  i admire ur unlimited research capacity and ur tireless attempts to find answers, AND questions.  i hope u see this and come back and HANG with us, just like i knew u might want to, long ago.

GNOTHI SEAUTON "Know Thyself!"

Re: The Dead Series.

LOL, Gibbon. Good to see you, too!

I'll respond to your post here as soon as I go thru it thouroughly.

Cheers,

kid

There will be two Ages. The first: The Age of Power. The next: The Age of Equality.

Re: The Dead Series.

Gibbon, let's go over this section. Shall we?

Now let's take what Robert has to say here and treat this hypothetically, shall we?

I am sure you are familiar with K. Grifffin's, "War In Heaven," where a situation is laid out that there is some sort of conflict in Heaven. Things are not what they appear nor believeed to be. There is no "God" sitting benevolently in the clouds as His Divine Plan is worked out thru time. Instead, there is a report of much deception and spiritual cannabalism going on with the Sacred Hosts. There appears to be a "war" between factions loosely grouped between the "Invisible College" and the "Theocrats." I haven't yet read your views on whether  the possibility of such a premise is plausible. But the old addage of, "As Above, So Below" certainly fits. I see no logical reason that would exclude for consideration that conditions in Heaven mirror the conditions on Earth. This hardly requires a leap of faith in admitting the possibility of such a scenario.

The Destenian (Thank you, Gibbs. I'm not sure how Veno and the others will take this, but it sounds cool, lol) position, compared to WiH, is more developed: ALL of heaven, Theocrats and Invisible College were together screwing with the lives of Humanity. Monroe's article was asked to be written by a new member on the boards, and I was surprised at how fast the message was delivered. I think it is a brilliant summation of Destenian viewpoint.

"You ‘design’ that which you are – the controllers, designed control to control the controlled through technologically designed mind systems as control. Technologically designed mind systems designed technology = the equation is simple, the equation is obvious."

Pawns of the Game Lords. Programmed by "technological mind systems." Brilliant! The mind can certainly be described as that. In fact, technological projections have given us all our modern conveniennces and has enslaved us to them. You are aware how stateless corpoarations "own" genetic material, or how they've created genetically designed "terminator seeds" that commit suicide when planted. We are tracked and followed and our quaint notions of privacy and annonymity have been discarded. Governments have used technology to further its own ends, which we can only guess at. We've all read the Phildickean, cyber-punk, dystopian literature where the chief feature  of society is one enslaved by technology. We are well on our way to such a future, which probably is here. There isn't much to say further. The equation, as Monroe says, is obvious.

Monroe states another obvious fact. We are not free.

"... I have the answer to the question why we are not free, which I mentioned before: The technological mind system that exist within and as each and every single individual human being – it is just an answer though, just an answer – like an answer to a question, though, this answer is an answer to a question asked and answered from standing as all as one as equal: Oneness and equality. No human being has taken into consideration themselves as all as one as equal: The one ‘law’ of existence: Oneness and equality"

Has there ever been a time when oneness and equality has ever been tried except on the most piddling scale? No. In this world, the mind systems have always been interested in Power. Separaton. Inequality. Do you deny this, Gibbon? Of course you don't. You and I are dependant on the systems in this world, and if we don't buy our survival, we will die, because systems only can support projections of death (see; "Genetic Modified Suicide Grain" and "Nuclear Waste"). Separation and Inequality are also projections of the mind system which was designed to keep us separated and powerless and  unequal. It has always been this way. Jesus, Buddha, Mohamet all failed. And their legacy? The creation of even more mind system enslavements in their name!

"Then again: Here is the answer to the question from the perspective of standing as all as one as equal: Will you ‘see’ this, will you ‘realise’ this – that your own mind as thoughts, feelings and emotions is of the technological mind system design placed within each and every single human being, born into a system as system – to be controlled – that is the cause, the reason for why and how freedom is non existent and why and how this world has become the very destruction of ourselves – yet the advancement of the field of technological evolution."

Gibbon, I see you let this section pass without much comment other worrying about the popularity of the Destenian message. Come, now. Discuss this, becuase this is another glimpse into the teeth of a nightmare: the destruction of the world, the extinction of dozens of species every day, the steady erosion and loss of human rights, all of it. All of it happening because of technology advancing and being used against us for profit and power. It seems that oneness and equality cannot exist where there are technological mind projections in place. An so it goes. Even Monroe can state this in plain terms: "Though – yet again – hear my words – this ‘freedom’ as who we are as all as one as equal as the living word – which each live within and as oneness and equality as all as one as equal – will only exist: If the mind system cease to exist within and as each and every single human being."

All I can say, Gibbs, is that we know how things have gone using the system of the mind. I say it is time to go into another direction.

Robert Monroe:

"This is the being who was known as ‘Robert Monroe’ on earth – to all those who still have the memory of me within your mind –know this: You are of the mind, proven to yourself – existing in the past, not here as the breath - I am not of memory, nor am I of the past – I am here as all as one as equal – and thus – you could not and will not possibly know / understand / comprehend the current placement of process within existence, and the current experience and expression and application of interdimensional beings, such as myself.

You ‘want to’ see / understand – you stop your own mind – you ‘want’ the ‘truth’, you ‘want’ freedom – stop wanting and searching – live and apply and answer the question for yourself as I have, as many have – stop wanting and searching through stopping the mind, for want and search only exist of the mind system.

This is me."

There will be two Ages. The first: The Age of Power. The next: The Age of Equality.

Re: The Dead Series.

Just posted on the Desteni forums: Jack's perspective on Process

Quote:
I have watched most of "Jack's" videos and they have captured my interest and have nearly captured my full belief. There are some contradictions and questions that I have which I would hope Jack to address either directly to me or via new video updates. I have to imaging that if I have these questions, other discerning viewers also have them. The task Jack and his other dimensional beings have before them to "release" life from the confines of humanity and the great enslavement is one that I can not fathom.

How does one go about convincing humans, one by one, that they must release all that they hold themselves to be? How does one convince humans to give up the relationships, thoughts and emotions they have come to identify their very existence by? Perhaps the "plan" for this freeing will be refined in the future to make this more plausible, for now it seems a task impossible to accomplish.

We’re not here to ‘convince’: ‘Convincing’ would be to have someone ‘believe what we say is ‘true’ or ‘right’ – when it is neither. This process is for each individual human being to see and hear, to see and hear themselves in what has actually been accepted and allowed within self and this existence as self. It’s interesting that we have ears and eyes – yet, no-one actually really sees and hears, we’ve actually become deaf, blind and ignorant within that which is our own responsibility: Ourselves as all as one as equal.

Yes, one is most definitely not able to walk up to any human being and ‘bluntly’ say: ‘Did you know that all that you ‘think’ you are, all that you’ve experienced in your life, all your thoughts, emotions, feelings, friendships, relationships, ‘family bonds’ has been a lie, constructed of a programmed system designed within your mind as a mind system and the very ‘life experience’ of you has been pre-programmed, pre-designed construct within this systematic world as the unified consciousness field: A programmed system within a programmed system within which all of humanity, collectively participate.’

I have had such moments, where I looked at this process, I observe myself and I have doubt, a ‘deep-felt’ movement within me where I observe existence in its entirety and I couldn’t help asking: How the hell are we going to do this? There is no ‘map’, there is no ‘plan’ – the ‘maps’ and ‘plans’ are of designs that enslave, where one become ‘subject to’ and enslaved by the ‘map’ or ‘plan’, this existence as is in the moment is a ‘beautiful’ example of this.

I realised that all I have is me, all I have is my self trust, all I have is my self certainty – self certainty in / as the ‘reason’ why I am here, why I will do what will be necessary to be done – to ‘get this process done’. Let me explain why I realise that all I have is me and why I will do whatever it takes to get this process done:

Yes, it’s not simple, it’s not easy – it’s the ‘road less traveled’ if you will, there’s no ‘guidelines’, there’s no ‘directions’, really, all you have is ‘who you are’ in the moment, this ‘who I am’ – I’ve been through many processes, and I’m still in process – yet there’s me that stand in absolute certainty that all will be one as equal of life – the only ‘unknown’ is the exact ‘how to’ – the ‘experience’ of each one’s individual process of the amalgamation of life as all as one as equal, and of course the ‘unknown’ of ‘how we’ll get there’ as all stand infinitely here as all as one as equal of life.

Within and as this certainty as me – I apply accordingly, with ‘tools’ to assist and support me as I am still within this existence – for instance, self honesty in every moment: Ensuring I remain here, every moment within and as self honesty as all as one as equal. Though, yet again – I’ve ‘fallen’ many ‘times’ – ‘back into’ despair, regret, shame, anger, frustration, you name it. Yet – I am certain within me, that no matter what: I remain and that I cannot possibly get lost (this I have proven to myself) no matter what. We don’t ever ‘die’ Ray – EVER, you’re infinitely here, and I am here within this existence and ‘by ‘God’ (lol) I am not willing to exist in such an existence infinitely, of this I am certain as well and I experienced processes first where I ‘had to come to such a realisation’ that I’m here infinitely and I’ll have to do something to ‘direct me’ – because I cannot continue existing as is, no-one can Ray. Then processes in realising that all is me – all are ‘parts of me’ ‘lost and enslaved’ – and that I am individually responsible for what has been accepted and allowed within this existence, as all are who I am within me, ‘representing parts of me’ that I have accepted and allowed to exist within me as me. ‘Imagine’ Ray – that here as who you are within and as a human physical body exist all and everything, literally: Human beings, including what they are and what they do (act and speak), the animal kingdom, nature, earth, universe etc. – and that each manifested expression within existence is a ‘part of you’ within you, that exist within you as you – and this is with each one within existence so, and thus – each one is individually responsible for what has been accepted and allowed within existence as ourselves. Now – this is not a ‘your are ‘God’’ speech, ‘yet you are’ – but not from the perspective or definition of ‘God’ of this world – no, ‘God’ from the perspective that we must stand up within and as ourselves, here, done in every moment, as all as one as equal – and stop participating in the mind – which is the very ‘generator’ we have become, manifesting this world as is.

I ‘swallowed hard’ on this one, when I ‘heard it the first time’: ‘How am I responsible for ‘everything’ that exists, how’s this possible – I haven’t ‘done anything’, I’m just here – and then I was shown how and why – just as I explained to you – that if I were to continue ‘blissfully ignorant’ – so will everyone else and we’ll just continue as is, we ‘designed’ all this together, yet individually – and so we will stop all this together, yet individually.

I was once asked a question: If you were the only one within existence – to really understand, see and realise what the reason and cause for how and why we are where we are, and how we got to where we are – ‘going against everything and all that exist’ and you realise that all in existence is you: What would you do to have each as you realise themselves as you have yourself? I did not know the answer to the question, yet, after processes I realised the same as this being did – which unfolded to the opening of the Portal and the production of Desteni: We’ll do whatever it takes, I’ll do whatever it takes and I will not stop until this is done, I will not (this I have proven to myself as well). The interdimensional existence has been in ‘process’ for over two and a half years – since the Portal opened, from the perspective of all, each one, understanding oneness and equality as self in application, in assisting and supporting individual human beings as self, yet – this also is not so simple, is not so easy – it’s tough and difficult –imagine that interdimensional beings have always been ‘but ghosts’ ‘floating aimlessly’ that have never really actually lived practically within this design as the mind system of human beings as the unified consciousness field – we’ve never actually ‘been here’, at the moment – the ‘dimensions’ are ‘less than man’, meaning yes, we have all the knowledge and information of existence, we see and understand everything, how it works, how it’s done – you know, the ‘ins and outs’ of all that exist: But this, this is the greatest ‘curse’ that can be bestowed upon a being: ‘Knowing everything’. Why? Because ‘knowing everything is useless, it means absolutely nothing – the ‘key’ is application and living – living knowledge and information as individual words as you: The living word – and this can only be done here on earth – within this physical manifested universe and not in the dimensions – see, the dimensions is the ‘realm’ if you will, within which all knowledge and information, application, living = is understood as self, yes, understood and it’s applied here in assisting and supporting human beings on earth, yet – ‘birthing self as life from the physical’ actually ‘living life as self’: Only possible here on earth. So – from a certain perspective if you look at existence in it’s entirety – we are (the dimensions, all in the dimensions) are the words all of humanity collectively together as one – that human beings as ourselves, as human beings as us – must place into practical application, in living words as one as self.

Have a look at this for a moment: A human being has a mind – in the mind exists thoughts, thoughts are ‘words’ which exist as manifested constricts separate from self, because we have separated ourselves here on earth from words – this, the mind system in its entirety is the manifested placement which exist within each, that exist and consist of words as that which we have separated ourselves from. Now – take it to the ‘greater’: ‘The one mind’ as all collectively together as all of humanity within this world as one – and the dimensions in its entirety all the thoughts of this ‘one mind’ – so, we in the dimensions are the ‘thoughts’, the words of all of humanity collectively together, which all of humanity collectively together as one, forming one mind, have separated themselves from. So – we’re in the process of ‘manifesting heaven as earth’ – what do this mean:

This means that human beings will be in process of living words as one as self, so each will be within and as their individual process of stopping the mind, the mind the separate manifested construct of words in separation with self – then, ‘at the same time’ – live words as self: The living word.

Ray – the ‘key’ is human beings, is this physical manifested universe – not us in the dimensions, we’re returning, oh absolutely – to birth ourselves as life from the physical as each one will do here on earth. So the question is: Why do we do what we do? Here is my experience:

I’m preparing the way before me as you, as all the children to come – to be birthed into an existence where all are one and equal, all ‘living practically the living word as self’ – no more ‘mind systems’, no more a system birthed into a system, but a child being birthed into heaven as earth. So – who am I actually directing, assisting and supporting? Literally you as me, me myself as one.

Yes, ‘beautiful words’ – but also ‘means nothing’ really, without the actual application – with which many, well most within the dimensions still struggle – to do whatever possible Ray, to ‘wake you up’, see – the reason why this process has not been realised before, is that those that have gone before us excluded the dimensional existence, therefore, the ‘principle’ of all as one as equal in practical living application: Never realised as self – every time a being had a ‘honoured’ life here on earth that ‘changed the course of self observation within human beings’, they’d be ‘f*cked’ the moment they’d cross-over, not remember their life in any way whatsoever – the ‘rule’ of the dimensional existence –it was a f*ck up.

This ‘time’ – the dimensions have been ‘included’, not separate – the dimensional existence have been in process as is explained, the process of the dimensions directed here on earth by one human being, together with the girl as the interdimensional portal – first ‘straightening out’ heaven - then heaven’s process to be walked on earth, directing assisting and supporting each human being as ourselves through the exact same process we’ve experienced and still are, constant ‘changes’ as we still expand and realise.

So – the ‘equilibrium’ of life has been ‘placed’ – which is death, this is where the certainty of this process exist Ray – you will either face your and realise yourself here on earth in this life, birth yourself as life from the physical – or cross-over face yourself there, realise yourself and then return to face yourself and birth yourself as life from the physical. Though – no matter where you are: You will face your own ‘judgment day’ so to speak – face all that you have accepted and allowed you to be, become and do within existence – whether here or in the dimensions (no way out) and you’ll reveal the ‘truth’ of you, yourself – and this ‘truth’ is not a ‘pretty picture’ Ray – shit, it took me quite a while to realise the ‘truth’ of me, because you ‘think’ or believe it to be such a ‘magnificent’ experience of yourself, so ‘beautiful’, so ‘great’, so ‘profound’ – WOW – here is where the ‘real’ wake-up call comes and shatters all your ‘dreams’ in an instant, all your ‘hopes’, all your ‘desires’, all your ‘beliefs’, all your ‘ideas’ – because you actually realise and see the ‘truth’ of you – let me put it to you this way: The ‘truth’ of each as what we have accepted and allowed ourselves to be and become is the ‘real evil’, the vile, the darkness, the pit, the horror, the agony, the pain, the sorrow, the shame, the despair, the regret – which we ‘hide’ with the idea, the hope, the wish, the belief of the existence of ‘love’, ‘beauty’, ‘magnificence’ – I realised by own stupidity in it all, because how could I have possibly even conceived that ‘love’, beauty’, ‘magnificence’, ‘peace’, ‘joy’ exists: If this existence as me is what it is as we experience ourselves within today and have for eons of time? How the hell could I have f*cked with myself so?

And then I realised the ‘trick’ – ‘forgetfulness’, not remembering, ‘hiding’ – I have been ‘hiding me’ all of my ‘existence’ – to not have to face the responsibility of me as who I am as what I have accepted and allowed within existence as me and that I have been afraid, afraid of me as what I have become and done to myself as all. I have recently been asked a question: Why do you fear being God? I haven’t had a reply or perspective or expression for this answer in any way whatsoever – maybe because in that moment I did not understand this question, though if I have a look at it: I fear being God – because I fear making the same mistake as I have made in the beginning, and ‘designing’ another such existence, such a creation, within which I as all as one is enslaved, in separation, suffering in lostness, yes, it’s interesting that one has a ‘concept’ or ‘idea’ of being ‘God’ – but I as all as one as ‘God’ have manifested this existence as is, thus I am responsible for me as all as one as me, so from this perspective, al together as one, we’re God, because we actually did this, did what is here today – thus, I fear being God, because look at what I have already done, already accepted, already allowed – so, Ray – in realising this – in realising that I have actually done this – I went through a period within which I was angry, furious, petrified at the same time, I had attempted many ‘applications’ to ‘stop it all’ at once together, I’ve ‘hidden’ myself within existence, I’ve tried to eliminate myself from existence – I’ve tried to remove human beings from earth to stop their suffering, I’ve tried to eliminate beings in the dimensions – I’ve done all one could possibly ‘think of’ to do – to stop, and nothing worked – because I realised: Shit, no matter what – I’m still here. No matter what I do ‘the nature of ourselves’, the ‘nature of each one’ remains – and no matter what I do – nothing will change, because the ‘problem’ is the ‘nature’, the ‘truth’ of what we have become, which I realised within myself as well.

So the ‘key’ is to ‘transform’ the nature of ourselves, the ‘nature’ of what we have become – but how? How are we going to have each one within existence realise this: See the ‘nature’ the ‘truth’ of what we have become, accepted and allowed within self, which has manifested within this ‘creation’ as ourselves – to stand up and take self responsibility? See = heaven in it’s entirety has been in process first, because of quantum time – so, in heaven with regards the processes, we’ve ‘gone first’ because we move faster from the perspective of quantum time – so, here we are – now, assisting and supporting you, yet, those that were first will be last, and those that were last will be first – so, you’re last with regards to walking the process as you, yet will be the first in birthing yourself as life from the physical – where we were first in walking the process in realising ourselves, we will be last in birthing ourselves as life from the physical – yes, thanks to death – this is inevitable, also the reason why ‘heaven first, because now when you ‘cross-over’ – you’re no longer ‘lost and enslaved in separation’ as was before – you quantum self realise, are one and equal with all interdimensional beings, go through processes (as mentioned) and assist and support human beings here on earth.

So, Ray – it’s actually already done – now, it’s just to walk the process – the experience of ourselves within this process, up to each individual human being as well as dimensional being. I have ‘shared’ all this with you, to give you perspective of why I am certain this is done, just the ‘process ahead’ for each one individually – and I understand that there is probably ‘more questions’ arising within you with regards to what I have written and expressed, but to ‘explain’ in writing would take me 7 years (lol) – we’ve done recordings of this entire process, of how we got to where we are now – thousands of hours of recordings over the past two and a half years since the Portal opened – so, what I’ve placed here – is all but in a ‘nut shell’ – that it will not be an easy, simple, ‘one-two-three-done’ process, no – but, I am certain that I am not able to get lost, and I remain, so – here I am, and I’ll do what is necessary to be done to get this done.

So – whether 70 years or 7 years to get this process done: What is 70 years or 7 years with regards to 350 Billion years we have been ‘lost and enslaved’ within this existence? Really ‘nothing’ if you taje a look at the ‘equation’. There is much still I am not able to place within exact perspective – here that I have placed above is me as who I am in the moment within process, as the understanding as me within and as processes I have experienced throughout existence.

There will be two Ages. The first: The Age of Power. The next: The Age of Equality.

Re: The Dead Series.

Zenden, thanks for the warm welcome, I'm glad to see you are still part of the team!

Kid Mongo, allright, here we go.

WAR IN HEAVEN
About the War in Heaven-concepts. Zenden also mentioned the Noble Realms thread here and I have been writing about some of their concepts on my site as well (http://home.tiscali.nl/gibbon/exploring/afterlife.htm). Although I haven't been through the War in Heaven (WiH)-thread here, I see no reason to abandon the idea of exploiting theocrats and other forces who try to 'fight' these theocrats. I wouldn't be surprised if Veno and Jack are of the theocratic kind. I wanted to go through your post one thought after the other, but there is first something else that I need to work out.

DESTENIAN LANGUAGE DESIGNED TO CREATE A MIND-CRASH
Today a former member of the desteni-group put it aptly: the 'destenian language' seems to be designed to make your mind crash. I have been pondering about this possibility today and I have to admit that it is an interesting approach. It makes sense: the whole destenian philosophy seems to be built on this idea to stop the mind from functioning. It stands to reason to develop a kind of language-usage that uses words in such a twisted manner that the mind is unable to grasp it.

If you submit your mind to reading (or watching) this destenian language your mind will eventually give way and that is exactly what is the goal of the philosophy, so if you can make people tune into the language a mind-crash is likely to follow eventually. If you believe that the mind (or mind-consciousness systems or technological mind) is the primal cause of many of the challenges that we face today, you are even inclined to embrace any tool that will help in turning off your mind.

Another interesting technique that seems to be applied is the structural destruction of every thought-form imaginable. Whatever people may think or build their reality upon is put into a video and often ridiculed and twisted with a conclusion that states that it is yet another example of the mind-system keeping people in their mechanized prison.

So, the mind is seriously attacked in various ways: directly through the repetivive message that the mind is evil and the root of all problems  (concluded from various topics and approaches) and indirectly through the use of language that is likely to make your mind crash because of the avalanche of words that are used with different meanings. It appears to make sense but to me it becomes more clear that it is not really made to make sense: it is designed to make no sense in order to ruin the mind.

RECOGNIZING THE PROCESS
If the mind is continuously confronted with terminology that is illogical, inconsistent and semantically elusive it can basically react with either of these two approaches:

1) I don't understand this, well this is probably because my mechanized, technological mind is trying to understand something that cannot be understood. Simply read it and don't think about it any longer: just accept it. These dimensional beings probably know what they are talking about. Stop thinking, that's the best thing to do in the end. It will lead to oneness and equality.

2) These messages are meant to confuse the mind. I do not want to pollute my mind with these kind of thoughts. I feel a responsibility to keep my mind sane and therefore I will decide to not read any further.

A SIMPLE CHOICE
Like I have said before, I agree with the idea of a mind that can easily become mechanized. The simple question then becomes: what do I want to do about it? Do I want to stop thinking altogether or do I want to learn how to think differently and less mechanized?

If you believe that the solution can be found in the stopping of all thoughts you are at the right address in South Africa: all kinds of methods are used and designed to stop you from thinking: the mind is the enemy.

If you believe that the solution can be found in thinking differently you need to learn to pay close attention to the thoughts that form your reality and learn to distinguish between harmful and harmless variants (and everything that is in between).

The problem with the second approach is that it can be rather complicated. The problem with the first approach is that eventually you are no longer able to question anything because you have given away the power to think.

TEMPORARY CONCLUSION
The destenian approach is clearly aimed at ridiculing the mind, portraying the act of thinking as something distorted by definition. As many mind-contents as possible are targeted and presented as examples of the so-called 'mind-consciousness-system', leaving true destenians with a mind that they can only distrust, since they recognize nearly every thought-form that arises from the videos and label them as 'stupid', 'distorted' and 'from the mind-system'. The words that are uplifting are twisted into distorted faul meanings disabling the mind even further. Every question that arises from the mind is discarded as distorted, leading eventually to a mind that is afraid to think.

So this brings us to the next question: if the mind is really nothing but a distorted system created to keep us enslaved then the stopping of it will bring salvation and release. If, however, the mind is a crucial element of our ability to be conscious beings this approach will create a constant sense of fear and stress. If the mind turns out to be a crucial part of our being it cannot be turned off: it will keep on creating thoughts leading to an unending stressful battle within.

If you look at the loosh-concept, some destenian ideas and ideas from the WiH-book, it might provide for an ever increasing amount of stress and fear in those people who are taught to distrust their thoughts, who are taught to fight their thoughts because they are basically bad. Some non-physical agents are likely to enjoy this new rush of fear and stress. Let people believe that thoughts are the main obstacle towards this desire for oneness and equality, knowing full well that it is like saying: the best way to oneness and equality is by stopping the flow of the blood in your veins.

If you somehow learn to suppress nearly every thought you have, you become an easy prey for everyone who would desire to manipulate you. Veno is really doing a good job, or as some noble realms-members would say a good STS-job.

Words don't mean a thing. Words make all the difference in the world.

Re: The Dead Series.

persephonevii wrote:

A question about Desteni:

I watched her video on 'Voices in the Mind- A TRAP'. I'm pretty sure most of us can relate to these voices (or is it just me?). Anyway, Desteni said we should discount and ignore ALL the voices in our head, and reign in our curiosity regarding them. But she described these voices as dis-empowering to the self, eg: 'You can't do that!', 'You're an idiot! Stop it!', etc. etc. Real limiting thoughts. But what if the voice was in fact the opposite, empowering and encouraging? Should we really then cut out ALL the voices, even the ones that speak in a positive manner?

Is this another example of mixing the truth with some disinfo? Or, is it a case of ridding yourself of any distraction and duality (eg: good voice vs bad voice) instead?

I dunno... If you are hearing any voices in your head, you're probably dealing with some heavy issues.

Mixing truth with disinfo? I dunno about that. either. You just have to prove this for yourself if transcending the mind is worth your time. I think you hit the nail squarely on its head with your comment about ridding the mind of from distracting thoughts. Good/Bad is an illusion of the mind system, obviously, and it needs the friction generated by mental dualistic constructs to keep itself, and the illusion of duality, alive. This is hard to fathom with the mind alone, since the mind cannot "see" itself. The mind consciousness system truly is "the Veil."

There will be two Ages. The first: The Age of Power. The next: The Age of Equality.

Re: The Dead Series.

Gibbon, you are willfully mis-stating the Desteni viewpoint on stopping the mind. Really, such tactics are beneath you, my brother. You must do better at defining the Destenian position if you want a fair hearing. Well. I would like a fair hearing, anyways.

A SIMPLE CHOICE
Like I have said before, I agree with the idea of a mind that can easily become mechanized. The simple question then becomes: what do I want to do about it? Do I want to stop thinking altogether or do I want to learn how to think differently and less mechanized?

"Can become mechanized?" The mind is the mother of mechanized reality. You can see what this mind-projected mechanization of man has given us. Like Monroe says, "the equation is simple." If the mind isn't transcended, do you suppose that the technological projections can be brouht under control in some way? I'd love to hear it, because the only logical response would be shutting the mind down. Shutting down the projections of enslavement. You think "zombies" will walk the earth if we succeed. Are we not zombified robots already? I say we are. Crashing the mind would be an improvement over what passes as intelligence, now.

If you believe that the solution can be found in the stopping of all thoughts you are at the right address in South Africa: all kinds of methods are used and designed to stop you from thinking: the mind is the enemy.

Please, stop it. The mind is not the "enemy." It is a "placement" along with other systems inserted into our physical bodies by the "Heavenly Hosts." Once the mind systems are shut down, life can finally be expressed. And how can there be any kind of expression when you are directed by mind systems?

If you believe that the solution can be found in thinking differently you need to learn to pay close attention to the thoughts that form your reality and learn to distinguish between harmful and harmless variants (and everything that is in between).

That "thoughts form reality" is a neat lie to make you believe you have a "choice" in what happens to you. You entire life, Gibbon, your personality, your habits, your identity, and every moment you exist in this world has been pre-planned thru the gridline structures that overlaid this plane by the one and only Kryon. You think you have "free will," but you are just a program. And as long as you believe you are your thoughts, feelings and emotions, you will remain a program.

The problem with the second approach is that it can be rather complicated. The problem with the first approach is that eventually you are no longer able to question anything because you have given away the power to think.

The power to think has been greatly overestimated, what with all those atomic bombs and suicide seeds and nuclear waste and species die-offs and war for profit and _________________________________________________. Give me a break. We probably have a couple of years left before the shit really hits the fan.
         (Insert list of Human Stupidity Over the Centuries Here)     But then again, maybe that will be a good thing.

The destenian approach is clearly aimed at ridiculing the mind, portraying the act of thinking as something distorted by definition. As many mind-contents as possible are targeted and presented as examples of the so-called 'mind-consciousness-system', leaving true destenians with a mind that they can only distrust, since they recognize nearly every thought-form that arises from the videos and label them as 'stupid', 'distorted' and 'from the mind-system'. The words that are uplifting are twisted into distorted faul meanings disabling the mind even further. Every question that arises from the mind is discarded as distorted, leading eventually to a mind that is afraid to think.

"Ridiculing the mind." I suppose you want to erect a statue. The mind is a terrible thing to lose. It's "terrible" and you must "lose" it! Actually, as Monroe and others have said, once you shuffle off this mortal coil, your mind, memories, identities and everything you thought was you, evaporates. Gone like a wisp of smoke. Then something strange occurs. You realize you still exist! "Oh, Death! Where is thy sting!?"

So this brings us to the next question: if the mind is really nothing but a distorted system created to keep us enslaved then the stopping of it will bring salvation and release. If, however, the mind is a crucial element of our ability to be conscious beings this approach will create a constant sense of fear and stress. If the mind turns out to be a crucial part of our being it cannot be turned off: it will keep on creating thoughts leading to an unending stressful battle within.

You stopped short in developing that first sentence, Gibbon. Let me help you: "if the mind is really nothing but a distorted system created to keep us enslaved then the stopping of it will bring salvation and release." And I thought you said you were confused by the "semantically elusive" nature of these communications, but you've understood well, buddy. Yes, the mind systems must be transcended. No wonder you stopped reading the material, you accidentally crossed the line of no return. Ergo, the mental "stress" you are experiencing.

If you look at the loosh-concept, some destenian ideas and ideas from the WiH-book, it might provide for an ever increasing amount of stress and fear in those people who are taught to distrust their thoughts, who are taught to fight their thoughts because they are basically bad. Some non-physical agents are likely to enjoy this new rush of fear and stress. Let people believe that thoughts are the main obstacle towards this desire for oneness and equality, knowing full well that it is like saying: the best way to oneness and equality is by stopping the flow of the blood in your veins.

In my case, the WiH book was a "gateway" into the Destenian viewpoint, because suddenly here was an explanation why every advance made by Humanity ended up creating another fuckup. Everytime it seemed that Humanity had a chance to throw off its yoke of oppression, some unseen, metaphysical door slammed shut! It all was a scheme, a Grand Design to keep us divided and diverted. But only if our "true" nature remained hidden from ourselves. Because if we knew who we were, enslavement would have been impossible.

If you somehow learn to suppress nearly every thought you have, you become an easy prey for everyone who would desire to manipulate you. Veno is really doing a good job, or as some noble realms-members would say a good STS-job.

I dunno. I don't understand what STS is, apparently. I guess I failed to realize that self-honesty, self-responsiblity, and desiring oneness and equality is an STS-job.

There will be two Ages. The first: The Age of Power. The next: The Age of Equality.

Re: The Dead Series.

Not much to say here.

It's simple for me really.  Words, language, and mental programs (closed thought loops) do NOT equal "mind".  The mind is infinite.  All existence springs forth from the infinite mind that we all share.

The mind is not a construct.  There are constructs taken on by the mind that create the illusion of limitation.  But the mind itself is infinite in it's potential.

All of existence was first thought up before it existed.  All things come from thought.  Without thought nothing would exist.

What I find humorously ironic is the amount of "thought" going into these interviews about stopping thought.

Re: The Dead Series.

If the mind is infinite, then memories, emotions  and feelings would be infinite. If you can recall what happened to you 350 billion years ago I suppose I could be persuaded to believe you, z. Again, the oft-repeated messages from the dimensions is that the mind dies when beings cross over. Since I cannot remember anything beyond this life, or any other life in the past 350 billion years, then I would say the theory of "infinite mind" is hard to prove.

The only thing the mind is unlimited in is imagination. and a capacity for blindness and stupidity. What are we gonna do with all this nuclear waste, brah?

All existence  came from the first molecule. Without thoughts you would have expression. We have yet to live in full expression because the mind suppresses expression.

Ironic? Yeah, I guess you have to start somewhere.

There will be two Ages. The first: The Age of Power. The next: The Age of Equality.

Re: The Dead Series.

kid mongo wrote:

The only thing the mind is unlimited in is imagination.

Exactly.


kid mongo wrote:

What are we gonna do with all this nuclear waste, brah?

I'm not arguing.  There's no point in using obvious misdirection.


kid mongo wrote:

All existence came from the first molecule.

And where did that first molecule come from?


kid mongo wrote:

Without thoughts you would have expression.

What constitutes "expression"?  Don't "think" about that though cuz that would be cheating.


kid mongo wrote:

We have yet to live in full expression because the mind suppresses expression.

In human form, in this particular lifetime, sure 'we are not fully expressing'.  It's not the mind though it's the stuff we allow in it.


kid mongo wrote:

Ironic? Yeah, I guess you have to start somewhere.

You know what would be great?  If the "destini" group and any alleged dimensionals all took the first step and stopped thinking.  If they had done that to begin with we wouldn't have hundreds of videos and thousands of pages of looping word salad.