Topic: Pilot who dropped Hiroshima bomb dies at 92

I dont usually pay too much attention to the news anymore but this caught my eye this morning:

"Paul W. Tibbets Jr. who piloted the Enola Gay, the B-29 Superfortress bomber that dropped the first atomic bomb in combat-an attack that helped end World War II and usher in the atomic age, died Thursday at this home in Colombus, Ohio.  Tibbets was 92."
He later said of the blast: "If Dante had been with us on the plane, he would have been terrified. The city we had seen so clearly in the sunlight a few minutes before was now an ugly smudge.  It had completely disappeared under this awful blanket of smoke and fire."
  In rarely granted interviews, he expressed little remorse over the more than 100,000 Japanese killed or injured at Hiroshima and made a point of saying he slept easily at night knowing of his role.

He justifies this by saying, " It would have been morally wrong if we'd have had that weapon and not used it and let a million more people die."

It amazes and horrifies me that this man could justify killing all those innocent people! What's even sadder is there are probably a lot of people that agree with him.

In man's analysis and understanding of himself, it is as well to know from whence he came as whither he is going.   Edgar Cayce

Beliefs are tools for social conditioning, rather than expressions of inner realization or inner truth.   unknown
Ad Verecundiam

Re: Pilot who dropped Hiroshima bomb dies at 92

The vanity of insanity.

Re: Pilot who dropped Hiroshima bomb dies at 92

I can't believe someone like him lived for so long. It just makes me so mad he can speak about genocide... with almost pride. He wouldn't be talking so proudly if someone had nuked the living daylights out of his town.

4 (edited by lyra 2007-11-11 10:05:53)

Re: Pilot who dropped Hiroshima bomb dies at 92

persephonevii wrote:

I can't believe someone like him lived for so long.

Yes, that's interesting, isn't it?  Kind of throws the whole concept of "karma" as many people believe it, right on its head.  Several weeks ago I was doing a write up about karma, basically contradicting the mainstream version of it is as taught by Buddhism, Wicca, etc., and I used this story as an example of something that throws a wrench in the works.  It was weird timing that I came across this story on Yahoo right when I was doing that write up.   I didn't finish the write up because I feel like there's a lot I still don't understand and I'm still exploring the subject, but this is definitely one of those "food for thought" examples, if there ever was one.


persephonevii wrote:

It just makes me so mad he can speak about genocide... with almost pride.

I'm sure our higher selves have gotten mad at us too a few times for things we've done throughout our incarnations. wink

Also, as horrible as the bombing of Hiroshima (and Nagasaki) were, it wasn't an attempt at "genocide."  Genocide, as I understand it, is the deliberate attempt to wipe out an entire race of people.   He wasn't trying to get rid of all Japanese.  He was trying to bomb a portion of their population as a message to put a stop to what they were doing.


persephonevii wrote:

He wouldn't be talking so proudly if someone had nuked the living daylights out of his town.

In his mind he was doing the right thing.  The American mentality during WWII was that the Japanese were the enemy, and they'd bombed Pearl Harbor, and they were just going to keep on going and going and going if someone didn't stop them.  So in his mind, he believed he was doing the right thing.  He stopped them. It doesn't mean it was the right way to go about things, but that was the mindset back then.  That's what I got when I read his quotes, anyway.  My first reaction was to cringe at somebody saying such things with such an obvious lack of regret or remorse, then I had to go, Okay, well, let's see if we can try to understand this person's mindset.  Rewind back to WWII, remember the politics of what was going on, and then step into his shoes and see if you can't understand where he's coming from.   So, I did. 

Then again, he may also be a higher center-lacking "OP", or a Rep in human outer skin.  So those possibilities also have to be kept in mind when trying to figure out why he doesn't feel as we do.

"Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting "Holy shit ... what a ride!"  - Anonymous
-----
"I get by with a little help from my (higher density) friends."
-----

5 (edited by lyra 2007-11-11 10:07:10)

Re: Pilot who dropped Hiroshima bomb dies at 92

Another thing, just a random side note tidbit - after I posted my previous post I was thinking, Well, it's good that we've evolved enough to where we're aware now by 2007 that nuking innocent civilians is wrong, that you don't go after the innocent civilians when you have an issue with their government.  But then I remembered Iraq/Afghanistan and the whole Middle East issue since 2001, and how many ignorant Americans were advocating that we go in and "nuke 'em."  So many people had this mindset.  I saw one in person at a job I had back in California.  On 9/11, a coworker guy was spouting that we should go in an "nuke 'em!  nuke 'em!"  It never even occurred to this guy that the people of a country don't have anything to do with what their governments supposedly are doing.   And unfortunately his mentality is probably the same as a lot of people's out there.  David Icke talked about this mindset too in one of of his books, I think maybe "Tales From the Timeloop."  The whole immediate "nuke 'em!  nuke 'em!" thing, with no regard for whether we are being lied to as to what really is happening, and the fact that innocent civilians would be killed in the process.  So I guess we haven't made much progress at all since August of 1945.  hmm  Some are really really evolving, while others are stagnating and devolving.

"Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting "Holy shit ... what a ride!"  - Anonymous
-----
"I get by with a little help from my (higher density) friends."
-----

Re: Pilot who dropped Hiroshima bomb dies at 92

I don't really want to say much on the mentality or attitude of these ppl. I know I perceive things differently and I don't have much in common with their perspective, but they were raised to believe they were defending higher ideals, not just a country or a way of life. As far as karmic retribution, I don't think there was any sort of punishment for them individually, but maybe something happened on a societal level, if you look at America as a whole. It's not so much those crew members specifically, they were acting out the actions and will of a nation...

I didn't know any of those guys were left alive (or not any more? haha). But it did perk me up because a long time ago, where I used to work, the tail gunner from the Enola Gay was a regular customer with his wife and I saw them often. I just found a small obituary reference at the New York Times. I did have the same kind of attitude at the time (1995) of disgust of how can you live with yourself after being involved in something like that? But I never actually said anything to them, didn't think it would matter or help anything. I didn't really know the guy cause he wasn't the sort of person I'd want to associate with. But he seemed to be like any typical American retiree, simple life, there was some other old dude that was a regular customer there obsessed with Elvis and they'd talk on and on about it on Sunday afternoons.

Re: Pilot who dropped Hiroshima bomb dies at 92

lyra wrote:
persephonevii wrote:

I can't believe someone like him lived for so long.

Yes, that's interesting, isn't it?  Kind of throws the whole concept of "karma" as many people believe it, right on its head.  Several weeks ago I was doing a write up about karma, basically contradicting the mainstream version of it is as taught by Buddhism, Wicca, etc., and I used this story as an example of something that throws a wrench in the works.  It was weird timing that I came across this story on Yahoo right when I was doing that write up.   I didn't finish the write up because I feel like there's a lot I still don't understand and I'm still exploring the subject, but this is definitely one of those "food for thought" examples, if there ever was one.

That's the funny thing about karma. Does anyone really know how it really works? I always thought the current ideas passed around were rather simplistic and didn't explain too much.

lyra wrote:
persephonevii wrote:

He wouldn't be talking so proudly if someone had nuked the living daylights out of his town.

In his mind he was doing the right thing.  The American mentality during WWII was that the Japanese were the enemy, and they'd bombed Pearl Harbor, and they were just going to keep on going and going and going if someone didn't stop them.  So in his mind, he believed he was doing the right thing.  He stopped them. It doesn't mean it was the right way to go about things, but that was the mindset back then.  That's what I got when I read his quotes, anyway.  My first reaction was to cringe at somebody saying such things with such an obvious lack of regret or remorse, then I had to go, Okay, well, let's see if we can try to understand this person's mindset.  Rewind back to WWII, remember the politics of what was going on, and then step into his shoes and see if you can't understand where he's coming from.   So, I did. 

Then again, he may also be a higher center-lacking "OP", or a Rep in human outer skin.  So those possibilities also have to be kept in mind when trying to figure out why he doesn't feel as we do.

Yeah, perhaps that comment of mine was rather harsh. Anger fogs the brain. I suppose he was just a normal, okay guy besides that one little 'fault'. As disgusting and horrid as it sounds to me, he would of seen that bombing as his proper duty to America.

And it wasn't genocide, again anger fogged the brain. I once read of a man who visited a Nazi officer who used to work in the death camps- now this I can call genocide- he interviewed this officer and apparently the officer lacked any remorse for how he treated the imprisoned Jews. He talked about how he killed them, etc. as if he were talking about how his day went. The interviewee did whatever he could to even squeeze out the slightest bit of sorrow for his actions, but to no avail. It really chilled me someone could be so cold about it all. I do wonder is it a case of patriotism gone crazy or something more sinister?

8 (edited by lyra 2007-11-12 07:31:02)

Re: Pilot who dropped Hiroshima bomb dies at 92

persephonevii wrote:

Yeah, perhaps that comment of mine was rather harsh. Anger fogs the brain. I suppose he was just a normal, okay guy besides that one little 'fault'. As disgusting and horrid as it sounds to me, he would of seen that bombing as his proper duty to America.

I don't think your comment was harsh at all.  But something I've been learning about over the past year or so is how pretty much none of us is perfect.  We've all done some things in our various incarnations that might make us cringe this time around!  big_smile   And I'm not trying to excuse him or say that what he did was okay for that reason or anything, but it's something to consider.....


persephonevii wrote:

It really chilled me someone could be so cold about it all. I do wonder is it a case of patriotism gone crazy or something more sinister?

Well like I was saying, there's always the possibility that these people aren't people at all, at least, not in the way we are.  They may be an "OP", this sort of hive mind human that lacks their higher centers.  Or maybe it's a Rep in human form.  Just two possibilities.  Or it was a case of Patriotism gone crazy like you said, where one is so caught up in the mission that they become blinded to the humanity.   You do have to wonder how somebody winds up becoming the pilot of the plane that drops a nuke on a city and wipes out over 100,000 people instantly.  Who is that "person" really?  On a soul and metaphysical level?  Who are they?  !


sinaptix wrote:

As far as karmic retribution, I don't think there was any sort of punishment for them individually, but maybe something happened on a societal level, if you look at America as a whole. It's not so much those crew members specifically, they were acting out the actions and will of a nation...

I thought this was a really interesting point, sinaptix.  Something is definitely off with America, and its people, and I'm wondering if stuff like this may have contributed to the problem. Not to keep quoting David Icke wink but he talks about how America is one of the biggest mind controlled "free" countries in the world.  It's like the TPTB who run our country, both front stage and backstage have sold out the entire country to be used and abused and experimented on.  It's why we have such a huge MILABS issue, versus other countries.   This entire country has been sold out and you have to wonder why, and what allowed for that.

"Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting "Holy shit ... what a ride!"  - Anonymous
-----
"I get by with a little help from my (higher density) friends."
-----

Re: Pilot who dropped Hiroshima bomb dies at 92

Ok... this is gonna be horrible. It occured to me when thinking about this one day that by being nuked the Japannese where paying off a karmic dept they accrued through the raping of Nanking... Or maybe not.

I can't help to ponder in what form americas karmic dept payment will manifest. We sure are accruing alot over in the mideast.

Re: Pilot who dropped Hiroshima bomb dies at 92

marklar wrote:

Ok... this is gonna be horrible. It occured to me when thinking about this one day that by being nuked the Japannese where paying off a karmic dept they accrued through the raping of Nanking...

!  That's a really good point, I didn't even think about it.  It sounds horrible because there are going to be those who can't get past the tragedy on an individual level, which I understand, but what if there really is something to the idea of a country accumulating karma for all of its citizens?

"Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting "Holy shit ... what a ride!"  - Anonymous
-----
"I get by with a little help from my (higher density) friends."
-----

11 (edited by zenden 2007-11-12 16:48:10)

Re: Pilot who dropped Hiroshima bomb dies at 92

not only countries, but ENTIRE RACES.  entire races and their offspring.  entire civilizations also.  the hebrews have the biggest on this planet, according to the C"s.  that may be changing though, not sure.  also, the atlanteans.  and those that were atlantean.  i feel thats a way big one playing out now, in this century/millennium.  on purpose, that too.  atlanteans and ex-atlanteans.  theres no doubt on thiat, particularly with them...all about power and domination and worship of the false self. one can see present day same behaviors in the leaders that never left.  heads of corporations, bad decision money and bizness deals that.sell out souls.  all for money and power.  theres the conflict there that never shapes up, never leaves and resolves i guess, since the ponerology and sociopathy of it isnt recognized as conflict (ie karma) by the perpetrators.  they have no guilt on it or no relaization i would say, that they finally get it that their behavior hurts/destroys other ppl.  on a grand scale is the problem of their perpetration.  for most of us, its lower/smaller scale.  but not for heads of companies and corporations.  the C's arent the only ones that have spoken on this, the karma incurred by civilizations, et al.  several sources say the same and have over the yrs.  particularly, the hebrew karma gig is the most famous id say or the most known and i have read that theirs is and has been designed specifically for them to carry out.  and that only they can carry it on the way out of here.  and the end or the beginning i guess, is coming.  the C's are big on that.  its "their destiny".  i have also read that america's is getting bigger and bigger too, and that the destiny of america is karmic and will be played out really soon and to come, in tandem with the hebrews and somehow as an outcome with it and related to it.  and that the karma of america has been in the works for a long time.  i guess were gonna "get ours."  its been in the makings for america since the vikings came here.

i will look for more on this specifically.  i think thats right up there, what marklar and lyra said, both.  what ive read indicates thats all connected on purpose.  the conflicts/karma of the middle east are in keeping with the karma of america in the west, on purpose.  there has to be interacting karma.  by specific parties.  and its been 'planned' that way.  it plays out on purpose that way.  speciifically with the middle east and the USA.  not with sweden and the middle east, on purpose.

what gary bonnell says about karma and conflict is pretty good.  makes great sense.  its when there is a conflict/conflict period, then there is karma generated from that.  if a person/entity/being does not generate conflictual emotions, events, occurrences, then there is little karma apparently.  the problem with sociopaths and criminals is that they feel no 'guilt" therefore, relates to no conflict.  but there is tremendous conflict with ppl theyve affected.  big conflict and caused by them, yet they feel little or more usually, nothing.  it cant be one-sided.  with the case of the perps feeling nothing, there is great conflict.  but not recognized by them, which is why their behaviors are repetitive.  they keep on keeping on.  nothing gets resolved, no recognition of horrible behavior and feeling it so, so therefore, no resolution and no correction, and unfortunately, no learning.  ex-atlanteans run the world.  see what i mean?  havoc keeps being wreaked across the lands.  leaders dont primarily learn.  it keeps playing over and over.  only when one sees it for what it is, changes it, does resolution occur and change therefore happen.  its weird how it works, it/karma has to have conflict to occur, and to be resolved, to resolve it.

the analysis of the orig pilot not feeling bad about the bomb delivery makes total sense, when indeed, in his mind, his intention was or looks like it, as lyra said, to have stopped an entire devastating continuing world war. since the universe itself is neutral.  it holds no judgement on such matters.  its the individual and apparently group behaviors that generate conflict that causes karma.  according to that doctrine.  so if there is no conflict with some ppl, thats why the same crap is pulled over and over.  theyre generating pain for others, but only until they SEE it and FEEL it does it or can it then stop.  cutting off heads as punishment and retaliation bt some religious sects holds no where  near the conflict that seeing women naked or in underwear does.  amazing.  heads off, bllood and guts all over==nuthin to it.  simple retribution without guilt or remore or even comment.  but, oh my god, showing women's skin!!!==stop the universe and kill them all.  the perverse. strange there, but total conflict to the receivers of the punishment and their families.  loss of households, fathers and mothers beheaded, homeless children, on and on.  which is why it keeps happening.  until its seen that it makes for hideous conflict, it continues.  just an example. and ppl doing that think theyre upholding "god's will."  its endless. and without the karmic resolution, no evolvement, no evolution.

so the beheader then stays involved somehow with the beheaded.  as the pilot prob has met up with the ex-hiroshimans, on the other side.  it goes round and round. somehow staying attached or involved with each other, as nation states and civilizations do.  i doubt there r many random killings and robberies, somehow they ran into each other to resolve stuff or start a new round.

GNOTHI SEAUTON "Know Thyself!"