Natural Morality

i haven't read the book, or even heard of it for that matter, but this is something that i have thought about.
at first, there would be anarchy, killing for the sake of killing, and it would be ugly, but the good people would stand up for themselves and for the others who could not defend themselves.

there would be no need for "police", people who get paid for protecting others (in theory anyway; let's forget about the corruption and abuses of power that comes with the badge and gun). we would all look out for each other; being good means not requiring payment or recognition for a good deed.
so if we are walking down the street and see some one in trouble, we would intervene without first grabbing a phone and dialing 911.

but then what? 
what does a good person do to a person that is doing bad?

it's what happens after that we need to learn to fix and deal with. 
starting a revolution is easy.
it's how to rebuild and make things better that is the challenge.

part of me doesn't understand these school shootings, especially when there is only one child/college student that is armed.  where are the athletes when these things happen?  couldn't a couple of football players grab him from behind and knock his ass down?  or teachers?  one person could hold an entire classroom hostage?  what about the classes across the hall or next door?
i'm just asking from a logical standpoint.  i'm not in anyway saying that the victims or people involved are cowards.

I think "beasts" would be worse beasts, and humans would be better humans.

Seems to me there are two types of religious people: 1) those with spirit who use their religion as an externalized mirror reflecting back to them the accumulated truths and wisdom they contain within themselves, and 2) spiritless ones who just go through the motions and maybe use the image of piousness to advance their own ego survival. With religion, those without an inner core of conscience can still be domesticated through moral programming and the threat of punishment or damnation to become good enough citizens to keep society intact. So at the very least, religion is necessary to program morality into those who lack conscience.

If you got rid of religion, you would also have to get rid of the unstated religions like Nationalism, Materialism, Hedonism, etc... otherwise you would be trading one religion that is at least infused with the potential for divine understanding for another religion is purely disintegrative to the soul. And even if you got rid of all religion and replaced it with a worldwide spirituality based on the truest of truths, within a couple generations religious distortions of this spirituality would arise and multiply into various conflicting denominations solely because there are people who lack the capacity to understand spiritual truths and only see, reformulate, and corrupt the exoteric or superficial shell of it into something that caters to their own ignorance and dysfunctions.

I think religion serves a useful function in that it provides a general framework of possibilities and potential truths. Ultimately however, it's about the individual reaching that truth themselves and integrating those insights with their lives for the betterment of the community. The dynamic between the individual and society is an important factor to analyze, especially if a society stresses one of these important systems of analysis, because it will result in distortions. A society too individualistic, wherein people do not routinely have actual physical contact with one another, or when they do they're plugged into some electronic device, is the form most followers of "developed" thought are following. Some people may deem this as freedom, yet freedom that's disconnected from reality, freedom that isn't actually practiced...which by the way is antithetical to any true notions of freedom.
A society focused too largely upon the whole, however, doesn't take into account personal goals and ambitions, and very few of them develop creative ways of channelling the individual abilities of humanity. Most of the time these societies focus around people doing menial tasks of labor, wherein their devotion to the community is often directed towards a central power figure, however formal or informal. I wouldn't call this freedom either.
Anarchy is an awesome "system", yet it leaves little room for disturbances, particularly when groups of people were to arm themselves, offer protection to those who feel insecure, with just or false cause, and become literally para-military groups lurking throughout the countryside. It would devolve into tyranny, and believe it or not, that's what the world is headed for as private armies such as Blackwater gain in greater strength and magnitude, and as the self-fulfilling prophecy of Iraq escalates.
So then I've arrived upon a conclusion. Obviously, there needs to be security, yet focusing that emphasis of the security of the individual is probably the greatest way as it permits the individual to formulate their own natural morality which can really only be practiced when one is free of fear.
Although one may say they are not fearful, most of humanity is. Given this fact, there needs to remain the state to harmonize relationships and organic, natural laws that support justice and morality, not just limited to the preventative measures that are necessary to prevent  the manipulation of billions of human souls, but also a morality that respects and is devoted to the natural kingdoms that we're intimately apart of.  Yes, we need to engender within the individual their own ethical frameworks, and . But we also need to have within our capacity peaceful means of resolving disputes and conflicts. That is the ideal function of the state and the law.
Anyways, a state, religion and its resulting laws which does not serve this function is at best confused, and at worst, genocidal and utterly within the domain of negative hyper-dimensional entities. Religion isn't the problem per se: peoples are the issue.

Wow I was pondering starting a similar thread a few days ago! Only the idea I had was: is morality innate without education?

If it were possible for a human to self sustain from infancy throughout pre-adolescence, with no "parental" interaction or *interference*, what would their view on the "world" be?

I put world in quotes because I don't think they would recognize it as such, maybe their perception wouldn't look anything like what we are used to. Maybe they could not 'create' anything either positive or negative, and I don't think they would seek deity at all. They would have no desire to idolize anything, other than to assign different values to certain things in terms of usefulness. In some people's eyes, that scale could be similar to idolatry, but I think that would be vastly different to the non-intervened.

Education has always been a double-edged sword. Without it we obviously wouldn't have conversations like this. But neither would we have all the conniving, manipulating tendencies of living in modern 'society'.

I wonder if it would be like perpetual ayahuasca visions for that person. Would they automatically be an astral traveler who never technically incarnated? Without our DNA alterations, without our vaccinations stunting any 3rd eye capabilities we may have had, would there be any use, or need, for flesh & blood, earth, wind and fire?

Without lifetimes of programming, sublims, implants, propaganda, abuse, coercion, rote, and hunger and strife, what would we look like, what would we feel like, what would we see like?

We'll never know, on this plane at least. Because if we were able to undo 99% of the above (which would be near impossible) then the 1% would still nag at us, we would see it as potentially the most important 1%, wouldn't we?

Never satisfied!!! 

   J

Great topic.
Super replies.
I might spoil it a little with my crass manner, scattered conceptions or whimsical ideas,
please endure the following sufferance for your penance.
What is important when debating this type of subject is to remember the bigger picture.
Lets not get tied down in intricacies for a moment.
If a planet existed, similar to this one, 2 million light years from here, a similar event might play out
and so on, for each "Earth" that may exist.
That is to say, nothing which is invented, discovered or thought is original and has already been preformed.
There may even be multiple-dimensions all around us and we live in only one of these.
Not in an after-life but here and now, the unseen worlds.
Are these the domain of superior loving beings only or is it possible higher intelligent imperfect beings reside here, from where they are capable of steering other, lesser dimension beings?
Where in religious script of any kind does it suggest this?
If it doesn't suggest it then it must be false right?
If anyone adds or takes away from the Bible they are evil and will burn in hell forever right?
It's authenticity cannot be questioned.
Sure hasn't this been done?
I mean, isn't it a historical fact that no higher being actually wrote the bible and it is an amalgamation
of script choosen by men and then proclaimed "Holy"?
It was not penned by Gods hand and then given to men but penned by men, who told us this was Gods word and then put it together, selectively, for us to study the "Word of God".
The Human biological being is intrinsically and feebly dependent on spirituality and progress and can be easily steered to an end goal.
Anything which promotes irrational fear is f**k up.
I feel we are morally capable of harmonious communal existence through upbringing and self-morality alone.
Those wired differently will commit henious crimes whether God exists or not.
Anyone could be one of these people.
Existence, as we know it, is an abberation.
More and more each day,I know you are waking up within this dream we call life and you are beginning to know that it's a fake.
You can almost taste the undertones of manufactured reality.
Not how it is suppose to be, too many inconsistencies and horrors.
I think we are in a dream state with controls and one of the biggest, if not the biggest of these is, yes, you guessed it, religion.
That into which we are born is not what we think it is.
Imagine for a moment one of these earth-like planets is free of religion.
The inhabitants know beyond a shadow of a doubt, all religions are false.
There was no Saviour, no great God in the sky but those images congured up by "others".
That they are clung to a rock by gravity and perhaps other forces.
They are hurtling around a sun at thousands of miles per hour, or are they?
That which confined them was smashed.
Riding the dragon, if you please but this dragon is clever, you will never know or feel that you are riding it.
They have been exposed to the truth and that truth revealed just how alien things really are.
What use religion then, about as useful as a trinket of Christ on a Cross?
Now hold on, I have been "steered" ok.
That all religion, to me, now looks absolutley ridiculous does not mean that it is.
One thing I am tired of is the same debate about if "he who must not be named" actually exists.
All I ask is that those who do believe concider for a moment the possibility that he does not.
If not, then there are many possibilities and perhaps entities and ways of life
that are beyond the realms of our understanding, for now.
If religion is removed from your life completely by knowing, will this make you a worse person?
Will you suddenly become nefarious or psychopathic?
No because you are the way you are.
If you change later and shoot up a school or something it is not because you lost faith in your religion but because you lost hope and faith in yourself and allowed yourself to become mentally unbalanced.
Things just happened, your wiring changed. (Who knows how or why, religion, lack of, outside influences, something someone said that upset you, something that happened to you 40 years ago that you recalled, who knows, could be it's all just random)
We should not blame religion for everything, I agree and we cannot say non-religion is the answer to everything.
To me, it is all irrelevent because to me, I am living in a very different world to most.
If it dawns on you to the ramifications could be mind-blowing.
Perhaps its time to ride the dragon a different way.
The way it is meant to be.