Topic: Is Peak Oil a Scam?

I'm interested to know what most people here think about the peak oil situation. If indeed there truly is a peak oil situation.

In another thread:

lyra wrote:

Goro is heavily invested in the idea of "Peak Oil", using it to help steer some of his predictions and prophesies, and there I was, posting a link to an article which presented an alternate theory that oil is in fact replenishable, and it's NOT the fossilized remains of dinosaurs and other nonsense that they teach us in school.

Now I know there's quite a bit of scientific debate about what oil actually IS, but as far as I'm aware I've not seen any scientific debate about whether it's really running out or not.

So far I've only read a couple of articles on the idea that peak oil is a scam. But they were written by conspiracy theorists and not by people who would really know  like professional geologists or whatever.

I find it extremely hard to believe that if all the oil fields in the world were constantly being replendished, that more people wouldn't know about it, and the information would be in the public domain by now.

Oil fields are not top secret Area51-like bases. There are thousands of them all over the world, with many more thousands of people working on them. If peak oil really is a scam, there must be A LOT of people that know about it. Is it conceivable they could keep it a secret for so long?

Anyway I don't have a strong belief one way or the other. I don't have enough information yet. Can anyone point me to any real scientific data that supports the idea that peak oil is a scam?

what does everyone else think about it?

Andy

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Re: Is Peak Oil a Scam?

That would be an affirmative. I think peak oil is a scam. I myself being a person who also believes that those who are really in control have power and a technological ability which would challenge any imaginative conception. I think it's quite possible that evey valuable resource could be produced via advanced technology not unlike the Star Trek 'replicator'. This 'universal constructor' would have the ability to take any chemical element and transform it into any other substance . . .

I am as is Void.

Re: Is Peak Oil a Scam?

Well, let's talk about Peak Oil then, since it obviously wasn't allowed on Goro's board!  big_smile

I have seen some articles which claim that oil has been found as far as 16,000 feet down, well below the fossil record indicating that it's not in fact, a "fossil fuel."   They were saying in one particular article that oil is product of the inner earth.   I don't know if this is true or not, but I posted it on Goro's forum to get an alternate p.o.v. going and get feedback.   While it was well received by other posters, it was frowned upon by Goro, prompting him to call me "mentally disturbed" for having such ideas, and likening my questioning of Peak Oil to the same logic that Bush used to invade Iraq.   !?!??!?!    Didn't make a whole lotta sense.   But at any rate, I would have to go and do some hunting on the 'net to relocate this article, or see what other info. I come across. 

I just personally believe that TPTB have control over all the major things in this world, not least of all, oil.  Logic would dictate that they have to.   So if they control everything else, why not oil?   And if they've proven themselves to be as deceptive and negative with everything else, why not with the oil situation?   It's very convenient that when they claim that oil is running dangerously low that they can also simultanously profit exhorbitantly from it.    So yup, I'm suspicious.

"Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting "Holy shit ... what a ride!"  - Anonymous
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"I get by with a little help from my (higher density) friends."
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4

Re: Is Peak Oil a Scam?

The oil field that are in current use are running out, but there's a gazillion more. And we have technology to make artificial oil already. I saw a news report about how artificial dimonds( crap i cant spell properly of late ) are already being made, and i study geography at school, and I KNOW it is a shit load easier to make artificial oil than dimonds.

Re: Is Peak Oil a Scam?

I guess from a technological point of view, you guys are probably right. I'd never thought of it from that angle and I certainly don't find it hard to believe they've invented technology to make artificial oil.

Although from a technological point of view, the very fact that we even need and still use oil is a scam, because I totally believe they have free energy devices, or at least something that's a hell of a lot cheaper, cleaner and more efficient than oil.

But obviously they aren't going to put that technology into the public domain anytime soon.

But I do find it a little hard to believe that all the oil fields are being replendished and they've managed to keep that a secret. Although I'm certainly open minded enough to believe that it could be true. I'd just like to see something about it written by someone who's not a conspiracy theorist like Joe Vialls.

Join me in Peru to celebrate December 21st 2012 - Visit: http://2012awakeningretreat.com/

6 (edited by wandering1 2004-09-24 01:38:54)

Re: Is Peak Oil a Scam?

I think that oil can be drilled from an independent well pretty readily.  Therefore, I don't think that the is an enormous amount of undisclosed oil that could be easily extracted from readily available geographic locations.

I am expecting substantial increases in the price of oil over the next few months and the next few years.  I think that those increases will have a substantial impact on the US and global economy.

I think that it is quite possible that "zero-point" or "free" energy devices exist on this planet and have been systematically suppressed.  I think that is where the major scam lies around "peak oil" rather than in the readily available existence of huge amounts of hidden oil which is being kept from public knowledge.

7

Re: Is Peak Oil a Scam?

I was reading the newspaper a while ago and they've already developed a hydrogen powered car, so why isn't it up for sale. Because the OIL CARTELS still want more money.

An Oil Cartel(learnt this in economics studies) is where a small group of people/countries control a valuble resource and they put whatever price they wnat on it, cause they can.

Re: Is Peak Oil a Scam?

Yeah I think peak oil is a scam. But more importantly, it's a distraction! Even if the oil supply was soon going to run out, does it really matter? We already have alternative energy sources lined up (including suppressed free energy) which have been successfully put on the back burner by the greedy oil tycoons. Goro is chasing rainbows...

9

Re: Is Peak Oil a Scam?

Distracting us from......

10 (edited by seeker 2004-09-26 22:25:24)

Re: Is Peak Oil a Scam?

I meant a distraction in general, not from anything in particular. Distracting you from more important concerns such as spirituality or search for universal truth. Forgive the term 'distraction.' The early members here were using it when I first joined the forum. An example being: watching a TV sitcom is a distraction from finding greater meaning in life.

Re: Is Peak Oil a Scam?

Ayahuasca wrote:

the very fact that we even need and still use oil is a scam, because I totally believe they have free energy devices, or at least something that's a hell of a lot cheaper, cleaner and more efficient than oil.

But obviously they aren't going to put that technology into the public domain anytime soon.

bingo. The very concept of using fossil fuels for a power source is the biggest scam of all. This concept equals control. If we stopped using fossil fuels then how many dollars would be lost by the fuel mongering elite? - hundreds of millions. billions even. but more importantly, control would be lost.

I am as is Void.

Re: Is Peak Oil a Scam?

Interesting article I just found on Rense.

-----------------------------------
Abiotic Oil -
Science Or Politics?
By Ugo Bardijr
aspoitalia.net
10-6-4

Ugo Bardi is professor of Chemistry at the University of Florence, Italy. He is also member of the ASPO (Association for the study of peak oil). He is the author of the book "La Fine del Petrolio" (the end of oil) and of several studies on oil depletion.
 
Ugo Bardi offers a simple assessment of the abiotic theory. His logic is so clear, and the culmination of his argument is so cogent, that even a child could understand it. And the conclusion is inescapable - at least to honest enquiry - abiotic theory is false, or at best irrelevant. -DAP
 
(FTW) -- For the past century or so, the biological origin of oil seemed to be the accepted norm. However, there remained a small group of critics who pushed the idea that, instead, oil is generated from inorganic matter within the earth's mantle.
 
The question might have remained within the limits of a specialized debate among geologists, as it has been until not long ago. However, the recent supply problems have pushed crude oil to the center stage of international news. This interest has sparked a heated debate on the concept of the "production peak" of crude oil. According to the calculations of several experts, oil production may reach a maximum within a few years and start a gradual decline afterwards.
 
The concept of "oil peak" is strictly linked to a view that sees oil as a finite resource. Several economists have never accepted this view, arguing that resource availability is determined by price and not by physical factors. Recently, others have been arguing a more extreme view: that oil is not even physically limited. According to some versions of the abiotic oil theory, oil is continuously created in the Earth's mantle in such amounts that the very concept of "depletion" is to be abandoned and, by consequence, that there will never be an "oil peak."
 
The debate has become highly politicized and has spilled over from geology journals to the mainstream press and to the fora and mailing lists on the internet. The proponents of the abiotic oil theory are often very aggressive in their arguments. Some of them go so far as to accuse those who claim that oil production is going to peak of pursuing a hidden political agenda designed to provide Bush with a convenient excuse for invading Iraq and the whole Middle East.
 
Normally, the discussion of abiotic oil oscillates between the scientifically arcane and the politically nasty. Even supposing that the political nastiness can be detected and removed, there remains the problem that the average non-specialist in petroleum geology can't hope to wade through the arcane scientific details of the theory (isotopic ratios, biomarkers, sedimentary layers and all that) without getting lost.
 
Here, I will try to discuss the origin of oil without going into these details. I will do this by taking a more general approach. Supposing that the abiogenic theory is right, then what are the consequences for us and for the whole biosphere? If we find that the consequences do not correspond to what we see, then we can safely drop the abiotic theory without the need of worrying about having to take a course in advanced geology. We may also find that the consequences are so small as to be irrelevant; in this case also we needn't worry about arcane geological details.
 
In order to discuss this point, the first task is to be clear about what we are discussing. There are, really, two versions of the abiotic oil theory, the "weak" and the "strong":
 
- The "weak" abiotic oil theory: oil is abiotically formed, but at rates not higher than those that petroleum geologists assume for oil formation according to the conventional theory. (This version has little or no political consequences).
 
- The "strong" abiotic theory: oil is formed at a speed sufficient to replace the oil reservoirs as we deplete them, that is, at a rate something like 10,000 times faster than known in petroleum geology. (This one has strong political implications).
 
Both versions state that petroleum is formed from the reaction of carbonates with iron oxide and water in the region called "mantle," deep in the Earth. Furthermore, it is assumed (see Gold's 1993 paper) that the mantle is such a huge reservoir that the amount of reactants consumed in the reaction hasn't depleted it over a few billion years (this is not unreasonable, since the mantle is indeed huge).
 
Now, the main consequence of this mechanism is that it promises a large amount of hydrocarbons that seep out to the surface from the mantle. Eventually, these hydrocarbons would be metabolized by bacteria and transformed into CO2. This would have an effect on the temperature of the atmosphere, which is strongly affected by the amount of carbon dioxide (CO2) in it. The concentration of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere is regulated by at least two biological cycles; the photosynthetic cycle and the silicate weathering cycle. Both these cycles have a built-in negative feedback which keeps (in the long run) the CO2 within concentrations such that the right range of temperatures for living creatures is maintained (this is the Gaia model).
 
The abiotic oil-if it existed in large amounts-would wreak havoc with these cycles. In the "weak" abiotic oil version, it may just be that the amount of carbon that seeps out from the mantle is small enough for the biological cycles to cope and still maintain control over the CO2 concentration. However, in the "strong" version, this is unthinkable. Over billions of years of seepage in the amounts considered, we would be swimming in oil, drowned in oil.
 
Indeed, it seems that the serious proponents of the abiotic theory all go for the "weak" version. Gold, for instance, never says in his 1993 paper that oil wells are supposed to replenish themselves.1 As a theory, the weak abiotic one still fails to explain a lot of phenomena, principally (and, I think, terminally): how is it that oil deposits are almost always associated to anoxic periods of high biological sedimentation rate? However, the theory is not completely unthinkable.
 
At this point, we can arrive at a conclusion. What is the relevance of the abiotic theory in practice? The answer is "none." The "strong" version is false, so it is irrelevant by definition. The "weak" version, instead, would be irrelevant in practice, even if it were true. It would change a number of chapters of geology textbooks, but it would have no effect on the impending oil peak.
 
To be sure, Gold and others argue that even the weak version has consequences on petroleum prospecting and extraction. Drilling deeper and drilling in areas where people don't usually drill, Gold says, you have a chance to find oil and gas. This is a very, very weak position for two reasons.
 
First, digging is more expensive the deeper you go, and in practice it is nearly impossible to dig a commercial well deeper than the depth to which wells are drilled nowadays, that is, more than 10 km.
 
Secondly, petroleum geology is an empirical field which has evolved largely by trial and error. Petroleum geologists have learned the hard way where to drill (and where not to drill); in the process they have developed a theoretical model that WORKS. It is somewhat difficult to believe that generations of smart petroleum geologists missed huge amounts of oil. Gold tried to demonstrate just that, and all that he managed to do was to recover 80 barrels of oil in total, oil that was later shown to be most likely the result of contamination of the drilling mud. Nothing prevents others from trying again, but so far the results are not encouraging.
 
So, the abiotic oil theory is irrelevant to the debate about peak oil and it would not be worth discussing were it not for its political aspects. If people start with the intention of demonstrating that the concept of "peak oil" was created by a "Zionist conspiracy" or something like that, anything goes.
 
In this case, however, the debate is no longer a scientific one. Fortunately, as Colin Campbell said, "Oil is ultimately controlled by events in the geological past which are immune to politics."
 
Thomas Gold, of Cornell University, has been one of the leading proponents of the abiotic oil theory in the West. The theory, actually, had its origin in the work of a group of Ukrainian and Russian scientists.
 
© Copyright 2004, From The Wilderness Publications, www.fromthewilderness.com. All Rights Reserved. May be reprinted, distributed or posted on an Internet web site for non-profit purposes only

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Re: Is Peak Oil a Scam?

I just saw Educate Yourself has a section on the peak oil scam:

http://educate-yourself.org/cn/peakoilindex.shtml