• Registered: 2007-07-23

Re: Life Force and Health

Hi Miles, whew, a lot to reply to but I'll give it a go.    The reason I suggested talking to the monks or someone like that would be to get specific spiritual practices that aren't the general ones given to the public to help heal your energy imbalance.   If that doesn't appeal to you though, here's one book that I am sure will have at least one technique that will be of some aid Meditation As Medicine:  Activate the Power of Your Natural Healing Force by Dharma Singh Khalsa.   There are techniques in there you can use - a few particularly for depression that don't require believing anything or hanging out with any monks!   I've searched far and wide over the last twenty years for different kinds of techniques and belief systems to help with my own healing, so I am always glad to pass something on.

To me the big thing that jumps out at me is that you feel that there is even an issue of deciding STS or STO.   I'm still pretty new to this board, so maybe this comes up a lot that it should be a conscious choice, I don't know.    My thought is what matters, is learning who you already are - deep inside, right now.   All the numbness, all the Ritalin damage, all the inherited family tendencies and burdens are just layers clouding who you really are.    It is my personal belief that that is where happiness lies, in throwing off all those layers of crap and letting the real self shine through.   

I hear you about the uselessness of doctors in general.   Every now and then I find a good egg, but most of them can't bear the idea that their precious pills actually cause side effects or don't do the good the big pharma companies promise, and even do harm.   I don't know if you are in a position to try going to more than one doc, but if you can it might be worth it if you could find a decent one - they do exist.

Why do you feel you must decide between good and evil?   Where did the idea that this pressing choice is there for you?   There are many different views of the cosmology of the world and no matter how logically coherent the system, that doesn't mean it is the ultimate truth or last word on how things are.   In the end, it is based on belief, and your personal experience - what is true for you, personally.    In one world view you are choosing between STS or STO, in my favorite world view people choose between seeking spiritual freedom from reincarnation or staying on the wheel for another ride, and another view you have to choose Jesus as your personal savior or go to hell, and on it goes.     Look in your heart to the moments in your life when you have felt the most alive and known deep down that it was good to exist - even if you can find only one - it will have your answers.    And for the record of course I would say choose the good, light, and choose your better nature.

All the best

vajra

  • From: Melbourne, Australia
  • Registered: 2005-07-11

Re: Life Force and Health

SamIAm wrote:

I have tried Qigong, but I find it to be a rather cold process of motions.  Many "teachers" of Qigong love to call themselves masters, and they rub me the wrong way as being rather cold.  Not to mention the outrageous prices they like to charge.  So I avoid that.


There's many ways to build lifeforce energy within yourself.  Start loving yourself and others, and letting go is the easiest way to dissolve the build up of negative energy.  You don't need to do routine exercise movements.  There's many ways.

Hey Sam

I'm not trying to defend Chunyi Lin's credibility or anything but he is a pretty good healer. He has healed so many people - for example this old lady who was tubed on oxygen because she had trouble breathing. She was basically in bed dependent on oxygen for ages and she was told by doctors she wouldn't be able to breathe properly without the machines. After a few months, she could breathe again after learning Chinese breathing and working on Qigong. That's pretty amazing. I've also got his level 1 program from Learning Strategies. His two aims are to "get in every family a healer" and "a world without pain". I find that his intentions are good and that he is genuinely a powerful teacher.

He does emphasize that many masters make Qigong complicated so I wouldn't be surprised if many people don't go far doing this. Chunyi teaches it and makes it simple and effective - the way people want it.

Yang

"The universe is on fire with wonder, beauty, and ecstasy." - From the Undines to Humanity

18 Reply by Mahatma (edited by Mahatma 2007-08-16 05:26:23)

  • Mahatma
  • Mahatma
  • Always Outnumbered Never Outgunned.
  • Offline
  • Registered: 2006-04-19

Re: Life Force and Health

I don't know if this will help but I'll post anyway, can' hurt. http://www.dhamma.org/ offer 10-day  meditation retreats for £0 in the UK, all you have to do is get there. I've only one reference and he said it was worth doing and felt very calm in the weeks after.

Here is a good site: http://discover-your-mind.co.uk/

Good luck if luck exists.

"Violence solves everything. If it's not solving your problems, you aren't using enough of it."

19 Reply by Miles

  • Miles
  • Guest

Re: Life Force and Health

Vajra wrote:

Hi Miles, whew, a lot to reply to but I'll give it a go.    The reason I suggested talking to the monks or someone like that would be to get specific spiritual practices that aren't the general ones given to the public to help heal your energy imbalance.   If that doesn't appeal to you though, here's one book that I am sure will have at least one technique that will be of some aid Meditation As Medicine:  Activate the Power of Your Natural Healing Force by Dharma Singh Khalsa.   There are techniques in there you can use - a few particularly for depression that don't require believing anything or hanging out with any monks!   I've searched far and wide over the last twenty years for different kinds of techniques and belief systems to help with my own healing, so I am always glad to pass something on.

That has been the tricky thing for me, there are so many different philosophical views on healing, literally thousands of different arts, philosophies etc... All claiming their techniques can help.

The other things is, i am not looking for a philosophy, i've kind of developed my own in which i see everything as subjective, because everything is subjective, so i see that as the only truth, there is no truth, or atleast the truth is objective, so one has a choice between pursuing an objective mind or a subjective one, but i'm still working and rereasoning all the time, how i see things it keep changing breaking down and linking together, atleast i think that's what's happening, for all i know i'm making no progress, but i like to think i am and progress is subjective therefore whatever...

What i would like to find is a logical science to healing incorporating the concept of lifeforce, one not padded or fluffed with new age or philosophical jargon, although i expect some of these philosophical ideas have truth within them, i just dislike all the fluff.

Now that i've checked-out the book you recommened, it actually seems to be more or less what i've been looking for, but at the same time i'm having thoughts that, why can't i just go find a quite place, like my garden at night and just silently reflect and focus on healing, what's the deal with meditation anyway? Isn't it just exactly what i said?

I guess i'll do more research into what work i can do on myself for healing, balencing etc... I have been looking more often for things i can do outside my mind, for increased physical mental energy, i'm thinking that my mind will naturally reach and equaliblrium, get more understanding simply from ticking over on a day to day basis, it's seems to have worked the past few months.

Times running out now aswell, how long i'll have to learn and apply techniques, it's all so complicated, thanks for the recommendation.

Vajra wrote:

To me the big thing that jumps out at me is that you feel that there is even an issue of deciding STS or STO.   I'm still pretty new to this board, so maybe this comes up a lot that it should be a conscious choice, I don't know.    My thought is what matters, is learning who you already are - deep inside, right now.   All the numbness, all the Ritalin damage, all the inherited family tendencies and burdens are just layers clouding who you really are.    It is my personal belief that that is where happiness lies, in throwing off all those layers of crap and letting the real self shine through.

Thanks, yes, thats what i want to know, who i am really am, i don't care what i am as long as i am me, it seems i've lost myself and this is more about finding myself than anything else, but i am not sure what it is i am going to find, i've found however, it's best no to expect anything and just go with things, but in the mean time i'm trying to keep myself balenced, not entertainign too much of the dark(because my lightside keeps it in balence), not too much of the light(because my darkside keeps that in balence), but also trying to progress, i think lifting this depression is the key to finding myself, so while i maintian the balence i also try to get myself back.

So your right, on what you've said this is what i believe.

Vajra wrote:

I hear you about the uselessness of doctors in general.   Every now and then I find a good egg, but most of them can't bear the idea that their precious pills actually cause side effects or don't do the good the big pharma companies promise, and even do harm.   I don't know if you are in a position to try going to more than one doc, but if you can it might be worth it if you could find a decent one - they do exist.

I have been searching and unfortunetely still am...

Vajra wrote:

Why do you feel you must decide between good and evil?   Where did the idea that this pressing choice is there for you?   There are many different views of the cosmology of the world and no matter how logically coherent the system, that doesn't mean it is the ultimate truth or last word on how things are.   In the end, it is based on belief, and your personal experience - what is true for you, personally.    In one world view you are choosing between STS or STO, in my favorite world view people choose between seeking spiritual freedom from reincarnation or staying on the wheel for another ride, and another view you have to choose Jesus as your personal savior or go to hell, and on it goes.     Look in your heart to the moments in your life when you have felt the most alive and known deep down that it was good to exist - even if you can find only one - it will have your answers.    And for the record of course I would say choose the good, light, and choose your better nature.

All the best

vajra

Nice post, because i feel that the world may or may not be coming to an end soon and that according to my own cosmology and subjective interpretation of reality, i should be aiming to progress to a dimension beyond this one into a realm of love and sharing or hate and battling. I'll give credit to the cassiopean transcripts as i find their paradigm of reality to be the most subjectively logical and coherent i've found, however ofcourse, one cna always be wrong about everything, so it could all be false, what a damn trip that would be if it was, although i haven't read that much of the material, it made my questions things and findmyown answers so it was more of an inspiration to make sense of things and fittied in with alot of what ialready had an idea of as "truth" or atleast what made subjective logical sense.

Lol, my emotional memory is missing, along with most of my emotion, i know i once felt happy though, i had a memory of an emotion in December, that is what woke me up, i realised what i was missing and what had happened to me, then i figured out what people were all about and how they could do this to me, from there is was no stretch ofmy imagination to conceive a gorup of individuals conspiring aginast the rest of humanity, as my doctos had conspired aginast me an 11-12-13-14-15-16 year old child and drug companies conspired aginast millions to drug kids into zombies, so that's what woke me up.

Anyway, in December i had just dropped out of college which i got into without any qualifications because i had dropped out of school, i got in because i was supposed to be so smart and dropped out because of depression, just like school. So i was pretty depressed at this time, i was in my house and for no reason walking out of a room, i remembered running on a school filed when i was 10-13, not sure when, but i know where i was, so i know my rough age, i know that the amount of emotion was about 100 times what i normally feel and that it was the emotion of happiness, i dont know what it felt like, except, these concepts i've devised from the experience, i remember thinking at the time, "thats how i used to feel", it was amazing and is perhaps the single most important thing that's ever happened to me, just a simple memory of a random event, wish i had more of them.

Funny how you said that ey?

Love and Light just may be the winner, obviously love and light is going to appeal to my higher self and hate and dakrness my lower, i seriosuly don't think i am tipped in either direction, but i quite possibly could be tipped in either direction, just staying balenced for now...

Thanks,

Miles.

20 Reply by Miles

  • Miles
  • Guest

Re: Life Force and Health

Mahatma wrote:

I don't know if this will help but I'll post anyway, can' hurt. http://www.dhamma.org/ offer 10-day  meditation retreats for £0 in the UK, all you have to do is get there. I've only one reference and he said it was worth doing and felt very calm in the weeks after.

Here is a good site: http://discover-your-mind.co.uk/

Good luck if luck exists.

Thanks both good sites and i'll the courses seem interesting...

Miles.

  • Registered: 2004-06-24

Re: Life Force and Health

A good neuro supplement is Brain Lightning. I've been taking it myself for a few years and it has a good rep. A little on the pricey side.
  If you go on antidepressants don't stay on them for more than a month or two. They cause the serotonin receptors to down-regulate and when you go off of them you have to taper very slowly. I suspect most of these suicides reported on SSRI users occured when they temporarily ran out of their supply and experienced the severe withdrawal syndrome.

  • Registered: 2007-07-23

Re: Life Force and Health

Now that i've checked-out the book you recommened, it actually seems to be more or less what i've been looking for, but at the same time i'm having thoughts that, why can't i just go find a quite place, like my garden at night and just silently reflect and focus on healing, what's the deal with meditation anyway? Isn't it just exactly what i said?

Hi Miles, I hope you can get the book and find it useful.   There is one exercise he lists for depression which is worth the price of the entire book - I used to do it a few years ago and it's like it poured the energy and light back into me that had been depleted, it was wonderful.     Speaking of which, maybe I need to go find my copy of that book again!

But to address why reflecting in the garden isn't the same as meditation, for most people it is not.    I could write many paragraphs to try to explain it, but the true experience of meditation is beyond words and what is possible to accomplish from that state is unique to that state.    For the most simple and direct techniques, I would suggest Zen type meditation.   I've heard some amazing things about Vipassana which Mahatma recommended but you do have to commit to the ten day course, it is something I'd like to do one day.   As for what is in the Meditation as Medicine, it is a little different - it does require focused attention for the postures and breathing, but to me it is a different animal than Zen meditation.

Here's a really simple meditation anyone interested can try right now:
1) Get comfy sitting with the spine straight in a position you can maintain for about twenty minutes
2) Focus on mentally labeling your "in" breath as it occurs and your "out" breath by saying in your mind "in" then "out" for a few minutes.   Any distracting thoughts or sensations come up, just note them, and go back to what you were doing.   
3) Next, start counting breaths by saying the number at the exact end of the outbreath.   So you'll put some mental focus into determining exactly when you think the outbreath ends and the next one starts.   If you lose count just start over.
4) Next, start counting breaths by saying the number at the beginning of the inbreath for a few minutes.....here's where you'll probably start to hit some paydirt in feeling some consciousness shift....
5) Next drop the counting and bring the full focus you had at count time to the entire in and out breath for as long as you like

The two key factors here are:
Noting - the ability to have a distracting thought come up, or noise, note it and go back to what you are doing is a key skill.   This is often very difficult at first and where most encounter the "monkey mind", but it really depends on the person.    The important thing is not to let your attention attach and get fixed on it, returning gently back to the task at hand.

The Shift - at some point whether in the first meditation or in later attempts, you will finally notice "the shift" that moment when your consciouness perceptibly shifts gears.   For me it happens strongly between step 3 and 4 while step 5 is just a deepening of the same space.     I would guess it varies depending on the individual though.

I learned the above meditation at a class taught by the Friends of the Western Buddhist Order....I wouldn't call it Zen.   Zen is much more focused on pure awareness with less structure.....I'm no Zen expert though, but someone on this board probably is and could tell more about it.

vajra

23 Reply by AB

  • AB
  • Member
  • Offline
  • From: here
  • Registered: 2005-04-21

Re: Life Force and Health

But to address why reflecting in the garden isn't the same as meditation, for most people it is not.

indeed

...vipassana which Mahatma recommended but you do have to commit to the ten day course...

tough...

Here's a really simple meditation anyone interested can try right now:
1) Get comfy sitting with the spine straight in a position you can maintain for about twenty minutes
2) Focus on mentally labeling your "in" breath as it occurs and your "out" breath by saying in your mind "in" then "out" for a few minutes.   Any distracting thoughts or sensations come up, just note them, and go back to what you were doing.   
3) Next, start counting breaths by saying the number at the exact end of the outbreath.   So you'll put some mental focus into determining exactly when you think the outbreath ends and the next one starts.   If you lose count just start over.
4) Next, start counting breaths by saying the number at the beginning of the inbreath for a few minutes.....here's where you'll probably start to hit some paydirt in feeling some consciousness shift....
5) Next drop the counting and bring the full focus you had at count time to the entire in and out breath for as long as you like

The two key factors here are:
Noting - the ability to have a distracting thought come up, or noise, note it and go back to what you are doing is a key skill.   This is often very difficult at first and where most encounter the "monkey mind", but it really depends on the person.    The important thing is not to let your attention attach and get fixed on it, returning gently back to the task at hand.

The Shift - at some point whether in the first meditation or in later attempts, you will finally notice "the shift" that moment when your consciouness perceptibly shifts gears.   For me it happens strongly between step 3 and 4 while step 5 is just a deepening of the same space.     I would guess it varies depending on the individual though.

I learned the above meditation at a class taught by the Friends of the Western Buddhist Order....I wouldn't call it Zen.   Zen is much more focused on pure awareness with less structure.....I'm no Zen expert though, but someone on this board probably is and could tell more about it.

vajra

Sounds like da zzen to me !
Or
at least a good start
or
at least a good try
or
at least as what is called zazen, a.k.a. the sitting zen ...

When once asked:
- What should i tell people when they ask what is zen? ,
a zen master said
- Tell them: 'zen is your life'

  • Registered: 2007-07-23

Re: Life Force and Health

And oh yeah, Zen has those nifty koans smile

25 Reply by AB

  • AB
  • Member
  • Offline
  • From: here
  • Registered: 2005-04-21

Re: Life Force and Health

Vajra wrote:

And oh yeah, Zen has those nifty koans smile

"It is the question which drives us" ... smile

26 Reply by Miles

  • Miles
  • Guest

Re: Life Force and Health

Vajra wrote:

Now that i've checked-out the book you recommened, it actually seems to be more or less what i've been looking for, but at the same time i'm having thoughts that, why can't i just go find a quite place, like my garden at night and just silently reflect and focus on healing, what's the deal with meditation anyway? Isn't it just exactly what i said?

Hi Miles, I hope you can get the book and find it useful.   There is one exercise he lists for depression which is worth the price of the entire book - I used to do it a few years ago and it's like it poured the energy and light back into me that had been depleted, it was wonderful.     Speaking of which, maybe I need to go find my copy of that book again!

But to address why reflecting in the garden isn't the same as meditation, for most people it is not.    I could write many paragraphs to try to explain it, but the true experience of meditation is beyond words and what is possible to accomplish from that state is unique to that state.    For the most simple and direct techniques, I would suggest Zen type meditation.   I've heard some amazing things about Vipassana which Mahatma recommended but you do have to commit to the ten day course, it is something I'd like to do one day.   As for what is in the Meditation as Medicine, it is a little different - it does require focused attention for the postures and breathing, but to me it is a different animal than Zen meditation.

Here's a really simple meditation anyone interested can try right now:
1) Get comfy sitting with the spine straight in a position you can maintain for about twenty minutes
2) Focus on mentally labeling your "in" breath as it occurs and your "out" breath by saying in your mind "in" then "out" for a few minutes.   Any distracting thoughts or sensations come up, just note them, and go back to what you were doing.   
3) Next, start counting breaths by saying the number at the exact end of the outbreath.   So you'll put some mental focus into determining exactly when you think the outbreath ends and the next one starts.   If you lose count just start over.
4) Next, start counting breaths by saying the number at the beginning of the inbreath for a few minutes.....here's where you'll probably start to hit some paydirt in feeling some consciousness shift....
5) Next drop the counting and bring the full focus you had at count time to the entire in and out breath for as long as you like

The two key factors here are:
Noting - the ability to have a distracting thought come up, or noise, note it and go back to what you are doing is a key skill.   This is often very difficult at first and where most encounter the "monkey mind", but it really depends on the person.    The important thing is not to let your attention attach and get fixed on it, returning gently back to the task at hand.

The Shift - at some point whether in the first meditation or in later attempts, you will finally notice "the shift" that moment when your consciouness perceptibly shifts gears.   For me it happens strongly between step 3 and 4 while step 5 is just a deepening of the same space.     I would guess it varies depending on the individual though.

I learned the above meditation at a class taught by the Friends of the Western Buddhist Order....I wouldn't call it Zen.   Zen is much more focused on pure awareness with less structure.....I'm no Zen expert though, but someone on this board probably is and could tell more about it.

vajra

Thankyou Vajra and everyone who has posted, i have been inspired to take up a meditation art or some form of spiritual energy balencing/healing art.

I will be seeking out a spiritual teacher or school and literature on the topic.

I've also decided to mix pharmaceutical intervention with herbal solutions to my energy and depression problems, i'm ready to have another go at healing myself.

Zen sounds intriging, i'll do some research on that today,

thankyou,

Miles.

27 Reply by Miles

  • Miles
  • Guest

Re: Life Force and Health

Millenium wrote:

Miles, bless your heart.

I live in the states and know first hand of  the residual effects that Ritalin is having on our youth.  Be grateful you have reached a level of awareness at 17 and are seeking solutions.

Many people I know your age are still on the pharmaceutical merry-go-round and are having major life crises.  The prescribing of this drug crosses all socio-economic barriers and is wrecking havoc in people's lives on many different levels.

Here is some info. I've found while researching this subject for my cousin's daughter.


A Study that gives some good advice on nutrition and supplementation.(spirulina info, etc.)

http://www.organicconsumers.org/school/ … 040405.cfm


Miles wrote:
Another factor in this is that while i've always been rather compassionate and noble subjectively, i've been told i'm too nice by other people and such and couldn't understand why other people would want to hurt another when i was younger, it used to really disturb me.

In our aggressive society compassionate and nice people are food for bullys, button pushers and narcissitic personalities. Learn how to protect yourself:
http://www.texnotary.com/buttons.htm


Miles wrote:
I am in quite a difficult situation being 17 and unable to work with no qualifications, even though i was once "gifted" and the second most intelligent male for my age in our county population of 500,000, predicted to get the highest qualification grades possible in the UK 10, A* GCSE's.

Here's a great book to gain understanding about being "gifted." "Prisoners of childhood:  The drama of the Gifted Child." by Alice Miller


Miles wrote:
As i said i was addcited to the stimulants i was given from 11-16.

Good News Miles! The brain re-wires itself!
Find this article at:
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/artic … 38,00.html

Also, Hyla Cass, M.D. wrote a book called "Natural Highs", that provides safe, effective, nonaddictive supplements, and nutrition to help overcome your Ritalin issue.

My only concern at this juncture is that you don't get I.O. it's the dreaded information over-load disorder, (just kidding mate.)

Miles, maybe with your gift you can assimilate all this NR help, write a book about your quest for healing, make some money, get your body up and runnin, and in doing so help others to heal. Just had a thought ...maybe, you could start your own website about how to overcome this ordeal. Have you checked to see if there are any regarding this subject?

Keep us posted on your journey.  Best of Wishes!

Thanks for the links and i have thought about writing a book, however there are so many limiting factors on what i can actually do in this state, i need to find a way to attain focus and control over my mind and life, addiction to ritalin was like a huge bombshell to them both. Woke me up though...

I fear i'm not so gifted anymore, not as much as i used to be, no where near where i should be, but when i get focused i am still smart, but probably more in the above average range now as opposed to gifted or genius.

I have read a similar article to that, so i know the brain can rewire itself, infact i believe the entire body can, but how to achive a massive rewiring of bodily energies and what the limit of that is?

I will checkout that book it could be just what i am looking for, once i get some mental focus back i should start to make progress, finding a healthy way to do it has been the hard thing and what i have been striving for.

Zen seems real interesting...