46 (edited by proto 2007-04-13 18:03:22)

Re: "A Course in Miracles"? Yay or Nay?

dreamosis wrote:

I felt disconnection after the first two lessons. 

And, that's interesting what you say about it stimulating the mind, but not the heart.  That is what I felt when I (briefly) studied it--the more I studied it the more I felt "Why bother."  It sapped my passion as I read it.

EXACTLY, though I read 5 lessons and felt "bleh". So you have the exact feeling I had, dreamosis, even after the fact that I made this post about a year ago.

I still have the book, so if anyone wants it for free, then email me. Then again, I would probably do you a huge disservice giving it to anyone:lol:, so forget about that.

I wonder if this is true...that seemingly innocent looking books on our bookshelves/coffee tables like ACIM can make our living areas feel heavy? I believe so, so I'll trash it, since they're going to pick up the trash tomorrow morning.

"We either make ourselves miserable, or we make ourselves strong. The amount of work is the same."
– Carlos Castaneda

47 (edited by Adama 2007-04-14 04:44:52)

Re: "A Course in Miracles"? Yay or Nay?

I think entities can  stuck to the book, fed by your thoughts when you read it, but if you leave it they 'd probably vanish or die...

Re: "A Course in Miracles"? Yay or Nay?

any one have thoughts on this? 
a friend turned me onto "the disappearance of the universe" by gary renard which is a primer for "a.c.i.m.", which is purported to be the true teachings of jesus.
i said before it seems like mindtraining/brainwashing, all that forgiveness of everything, we created this world that isn't real and the ascended masters appearing to gary renard.

my friend swears by it and passes the books along to anyone who will listen to him. 
it's not that he's pushy about it, it's just that he is convinced that these books lay the foundation for enlightment for all of us, and will free us of the hell that is this reality (as he perceives it).  i don't think it's that bad, but it could be better. 
i suppose it's harmless, but i'm afraid that one day he will wake up and realize that it's just another self-help book. 
which it might be. 
or it might not.
has any one here read either one or both, or had experiences with it or some one who did?  i've heard that they are good things, but other people say they are demonically inspired; mostly devout xians or other religious types. 
but i suppose you have to believe in demons to buy that, right?
i have both books, also because of curiosity and i realize that at the end of the day it's my decision as to what i get out of them (or don't).
anyway, i'm just curious and looking for some feedback, negative or positive. 

-ERT

The "what should be" never did exist, but people keep trying to live up to it. There is no "what should be," there is only what is. 
-Lenny Bruce

49 (edited by montalk 2007-08-12 12:31:16)

Re: "A Course in Miracles"? Yay or Nay?

ACIM is a lot of pages, a lot of time, a lot of redundancy and repetition. What it says can be said ten times better in one tenth the space elsewhere. It helps some people, but I think they could be helped faster had they come across more accurate and concise material. Like the books by Joseph Benner (Anonymous): Impersonal Life, The Way Out, Brotherhood, The Way to the Kingdom -- especially The Way to the Kingdom. Benner's books are also Christian in tone, but unlike ACIM are to-the-point, empowering, and have a lucidifying instead of brainwashing effect. If people like ACIM, that's fine, I just hope they have considered other sources before committing themselves.

Acquiring fringe knowledge is like digging for diamonds in a mine field.

Re: "A Course in Miracles"? Yay or Nay?

In post #8 Montalk wrote:

Now the next question is - did Jesus Christ really author this book through Shucman? Because if not, then who is it that is speaking in first person throughout the entire book?

One of the questions I have always asked Christians is "why didn't Jesus just write his instructions down, in his own words, for all of prosperity?".  He was an educated man, overly so.  The bible wasn't written until around 325 after the death of the proposed Jesus and since then has undergone 125+ reinterpretations and translations by such persons as King James.  We all know how very much royal families care about the peons and how much they want to help them.  Royalty have always been agenda-less.  Think of all the confusion that would have been avoided if Jesus had just written his own book.

From the time I was around six years old, I asked Sunday school teachers about Jesus not writing his own book?  Why didn't he talk more, there were only those few red words to go by.  They never answered me.  I wonder the same thing when it comes to ACIM.  Why didn’t Jesus just write it himself way back then?

Nay.

Re: "A Course in Miracles"? Yay or Nay?

Thank, Ethereal, for your reference to Ramana Maharishi.  I took a quick look at the website and felt that his words were quite genuine and came from an experience of the self, rather than from self help theory.  It is one thing to say, as someone pointed out earlier, that "everything is love, all else is illusion" and quite another to experience it.  To describe such a state to one without that experience is to describe the color red to one without site.  A true teacher, a true guru, is one who lives in that state and can take the devotee across.  The issue I have with many of these New Age people, such as Marianne Williamson (though I don't really mean to single her out - there are many others) is that they do not live in that state and so their books and writings can leave one very cold. 

One thing that is shared by all the great teachers is that enlightenment cannot be obtained by reading or wihtout great effort and self inquiry.  The other thing that troubles me about many of these teachers is that, while they teach that all is illusion, their "hook" is that one can become rich, or find love, or gain health, by following their directive.  While there is nothing wrong with those things, in the end, one must learn to be happy and content in adversity and discomfort as well.  There was a great saint in India who lived on a garbage heap because he had attained that state of being that was untouched by the world. 
Maggie

52 (edited by nexus 2007-08-12 19:26:47)

Re: "A Course in Miracles"? Yay or Nay?

Hi Pamelajean,

I think it's a good idea to place Jesus' appearance in historical perspective.   The following comes from an internal and external study during my life.   Also while reading this try and forget the relative comfort of your computer chair and the relative peace outside and your satisfied tummy and the roof over your head.   Think about the rest of the world and the multitudes who have nothing and who live in shanties looking for their next meal.   And think about history and the constant wars and destruction of civilisations as they rise and fall and sink and burn.   That thoughtform,  if you can entertain it for a moment in non- attachment and without fear, can make the rest of this post at least...... if not believable then an understandable or hopefull scenario.

Long before Lemuria and Atlantis was destroyed, a large number of Spiritual beings [Jesus was one of them] came to earth from off planet to participate in the raising of the consciousness of humanity.  Sirius and Venus are two of those places of origin. [ie. from the etheric planes of Venus not the physical surface].   These spiritual beings did NOT use space flight technologies to get here.  On this point there is a great deal of confusion today.  It is a confusion that is fostered by the imposters of the light because these "space brothers" [who seem to be very fond of the NWO]  do like to masquerade as the spiritual teachers of humanity.   And they too would like our attention.

But many of those original spiritual beings who came with Jesus [whatever his name was then]  incarnated onto the earth and over time, many became ensnared in the karma of the human race.  So then, the 'rescue' turned to the original souls  who had first accompanied the spiritual beings from Sirius and Venus and that rescue continues today.

Jesus belonged to that ancient brotherhood, some of whom have re- incarnated down the ages from ancient Lumuria to the present.  They have worked as the spiritual teachers of the human race in the physical, etheric and spiritual planes.  At any given time they reveal truth according to a long term plan and they give what can be given to each culture.  In each dispensation there is a harvest as some souls become the essence of the teaching first by accepting it,  then by internalising it, by practicing it and then by ascending.  The Spirit takes their souls to the immortal realms of spiritual reality forever.  Many of these ascended ones, having joined the work in the physical plane while in embodiment,  then join it in the etheric and spiritual planes.  As ascended beings they then have much more power and influence to assist humanity than before and many continue their work from inner levels.  Some leave planet earth forever.

Anyway Pamelajean,  there can't really be a spiritual teaching "for all time" because the spiritual teachers work to raise the consciousness of the people over time.  It is a slow process.  The consciousness of the people changes over time.  Different levels of teaching have been given over time to different cultures.  For example now that physics and other sciences are again advancing to prior levels, a spiritual teaching can again refer to related scientific concepts to further our spiritual understanding... and vice versa.  The sciences can refer to spiritual concepts.

The spiritual Adepts never put all their eggs in one basket because they operate in a world "at war" between the forces of control and the forces of freedom.   They battle the black brotherhood on many fronts [not just on spiritual teachings] in a war for the minds of humanity.  The spiritual teachers can never reveal everything at one time either.   Almost everything they have ever revealed over hundreds of thousands of years has been destroyed or twisted beyond recognition.  For that reason progressive revelation is the way of truth and it has not always appeared in plain sight.  For safety reasons truth is often wrapped in allegory and parables and sensitive individuals [sponsored at inner levels] unwrap the truth over time to those who are ready.   When the student is ready the teacher appears.

So progressive revelation is always tailored to the culture and the times in which it appears.   The revelation always finds the mass of people labouring under gross illusions regarding almost everything including how truth might appear, through whom it might appear and what it should say.   Those preconceptions must be met and overcome.  They are not always overcome and so we grind on through time as our spiritual teachers attempt to appeal to souls who are re- incarnating into one mental trap after another set by the forces of control.  Freewill is always respected and so most people go their merry way.

Throughout history to the present,  the messengers of truth [including Jesus] have generally been rejected and scorned and mocked and murdered [and eventually grossly misrepresented] while the controllers and imposters in church and state are feted as enlightened heroes.  The spiritual teachers of the human race have always been restricted by the state of consciousness of the race, the culture in which they are trying to teach,  the societal control mechanisms in place,  the beliefs and expectations of the people,  the fate of prior dispensations of truth teachings etc.  Human societies are usually always a cesspool of ignorance, deliberate distortions and control.  In a freewill arena like earth, the odds of success are desperately opposed.

In a world "at war" no single book could have contained the necessary revelations in complete openess and survived.  But you will find the timeless truths barely hidden in plain sight in the myths and scriptures of east and west and in several other places.  Problem is that over time the mistranslations and deliberate distortions of the texts have been accompanied by deliberate [and sometimes accidental] misinterpretations to present a nonsense masquerading as the truth.  But someone always appears among us to clarify the inner meanings and to bring light to a mystery.  [It's almost impossible that any one representation of spiritual truth can appeal to everyone anyway.   Different angles of the same truths are creatively presented for different times and different people]. 

These people, sponsored by the Adepts, initiate organisations to disseminate the teachings but they don't always succeed in changing everyone's mind.  There is huge resistance to any change in this world especially when it concerns spiritual truth.  But the Adepts work to gather students who are ready to find these outposts and some of the students spiritually profit by it.   A much fewer number even ascend as they have always done.  That is the harvest that comes cyclically.

All this happens at the same time as the black brotherhoods oppose these organisations [in physical and astral planes] and while they also sponsor their own messengers to counteract the revelations of truth.

We are all going to have a different idea about just which organisations and individuals are bearers of truth.  If we were drawing up a list each of us would probably draw up a different one.  I also think it should be acknowledged that not all individuals who've been sponsored by spiritual Adepts to present spiritual teachings to the world have done a perfect job. Some have failed to keep the sponsorship of the brotherhood past an initial period of probation or early into their work.   Alice Bailey was one such person [who formed the 'lucis trust'] and wove false teachings into her work.  And so did J. Krishnamurti.  Both of them delivered an intellectual teaching and failed to deliver the planned release from the spiritual Adepts.  Even Helena Blavatsky went a bit overboard on the 'lucifer' stuff in the latter stages of her work due to a misunderstanding of a mistranslation of 'Lucifer'... so called 'son of the morning'.   Also no messenger represents the release of the Adepts 100%.  Some distortions of the teaching always result from the imperfections of the messengers mental concepts and subconscious mind.  So those human foibles make the job of delivery a more or less imperfect exercise.   It also makes our own discernment even more challenging and it makes the proverbial list harder to compile.

We live in a time, over the past 130 years or so, when many such people have been sponsored by embodied and ascended Adepts to 'open' what was formerly 'closed' to our spiritual understanding.  Some of these people have already made clear the true meaning of the teachings of Buddha, Christ, Krishna etc and presented new perspectives on the timeless spiritual truths.   Some of these people who have participated in a major way in presenting progressive revelation include Mary Baker Eddy,  Helena Petrovna Blavatsky and various theosophists [including Steiner?], Nicholas and Helena Roerich, Paramahansa Yogananda, Guy and Edna Ballard, Geraldine Innocente, Mark and Elizabeth Prophet and Kim Michaels.  There are many others who have had dispensations to present some new and appealing angle on the timeless truths.  See the work of Florence Scovel Shinn or Ernest and Fenwicke Holmes or Helen's ACIM and several others.   None of these teachings are without flaw and each were directed at a specific mindset.  I think Athenais is on the money about ACIM being directed at people who have been mauled by christian fundamentalism.

But the whole offering of spiritual teachings [and many cultural, political and artistic influences] shows just how active and creative our spiritual teachers must be in order to advance our material and spiritual interests in a world where truth in every field is under constant attack.  God Blessem.

Re: "A Course in Miracles"? Yay or Nay?

ACIM: theocrat-approved horseshit. imho.

There will be two Ages. The first: The Age of Power. The next: The Age of Equality.

Re: "A Course in Miracles"? Yay or Nay?

Nay

I love to read books about spirituality. My love for higher intelligence often leads to me consuming information that is not in my highest good. I own ACIM, but I manged to only make it through about twenty pages before I got bored. And that ussually doesn't happen when I purchase a "spiritual" book.

55 (edited by druid 2007-08-12 12:12:03)

Re: "A Course in Miracles"? Yay or Nay?

Watch out to avoid to regress into worthless new age stuff.


A Course in Miracles should already be in the trash bin for more than a decade now.

Re: "A Course in Miracles"? Yay or Nay?

aNDRE dILOn wrote:

Nay

I love to read books about spirituality. My love for higher intelligence often leads to me consuming information that is not in my highest good. I own ACIM, but I manged to only make it through about twenty pages before I got bored. And that ussually doesn't happen when I purchase a "spiritual" book.

Same here. I think I got past a lot more than 20 pages, I think I may even have suffered through about half the book, but there was a point where I just couldn't take anymore and gave up. I probably should have given up at 20 pages like you!

Join me in Peru to celebrate December 21st 2012 - Visit: http://2012awakeningretreat.com/

Re: "A Course in Miracles"? Yay or Nay?

A Course in Miracles wrote:

This course can therefore be summed up very simply in this way:

                Nothing real can be threatened.
                Nothing unreal exists.

                Herein lies the peace of God.

...One of my immediate responses to this summation of ACIM, and knowing the book's content, is:

Well, if my spirit cannot harmed by ego--since it's unreal and doesn't exist--why not indulge in my ego?  I mean, if it's unreal and can't harm me, then indulging in ego would be no different than enjoying a violent video game.  It isn't real.  I'm not really slaughtering those people.  In fact, they aren't people, they're electronic images.  The gun is fake, the blood is fake, it's not real.

So what would stop me from pursuing "the real" and knowing the peace of God, while on the side I have promiscuous sex, key a few cars, bully children, and lash out angrily when I feel like it?

If I live with the knowledge that nothing real can be threatened, when I'm bullying people it doesn't mean anything.  I can't really threaten them.  I can't really hurt them.  I can't even really hurt a person by kidnapping them and enslaving them in the basement of my house, so...why not do it?

You can't change a tiger's stripes,
but you can avoid its teeth.

Re: "A Course in Miracles"? Yay or Nay?

There is nothing to stop us pursuing God consciousness and the ego activities that you mention Dreamosis... if we want to remain in duality consciousness that is.   Indulging the lower- ego at whim will prevent the ultimate attainment of the essential God consciousness.

"Nothing real can be threatened".  The God consciousness cannot be threatened but we can remain unconscious of it while indulging the lower- ego for as long as it takes to wake up.  We can keep participating in the human drama.

"Nothing unreal exists" is just as true as saying "nothing real exists".   We always need to understand the authors rationale for using a word or concept.  In what context is the author making a statement?   Reducing a work down to a few syllables and then approaching it with the mind of a lawyer won't help much in probing the deep things of God.  The authors perspective is everything when trying to understand such statements.  Then go to the source.

"Everything is unreal" ...   Everthing we see and know with the five senses is form.  Form has essence so form can be transmuted and changed which suggests from one perspective that forms are ultimately unreal.  They always appear and dissapear according to the cycles of creation /preservation/ and destruction.  [Brahma / Vishnu/ and Shiva.] We can never ultimately rely on any external forms... they are ever changing.   We can only rely on the inner God Self.

OR

"Everthing is real" ... Everything has spirit at it's essence.  Spirit can change form but it can never be destroyed.  Spirit is the underlying reality of everything. We just need to penetrate the deeper reality to see that it is spirit which maintains the construction of all forms by the law of freewill.

So we can exercise our freewill to maintain the relativity of the human conscious and the forms it creates.  Or we can wise up and uncover the essential truths regarding the 'way' to higher consciousness.  "You cannot serve God and mammon."
We cannot serve God in self and others while serving the lower- ego in self and others.

The 'way' is different [in form] for everyone. 

The 'way' is essentially the same for everyone.

59 (edited by dreamosis 2007-08-14 10:04:18)

Re: "A Course in Miracles"? Yay or Nay?

nexus wrote:

There is nothing to stop us pursuing God consciousness and the ego activities that you mention Dreamosis... if we want to remain in duality consciousness that is.   Indulging the lower- ego at whim will prevent the ultimate attainment of the essential God consciousness.

Yeah, I agree with that wholeheartedly.  What I didn't express yesterday is that I think that ACIM lays the groundwork for a Service-to-Self polarization.  That's what I was getting at.  I don't necessarily think that ACIM nudges anyone in that direction, but it lays the foundation for it (just like all Fundamentalism does).

A person can intellectually be conscious of their inner divine while still serving "Mammon."  All it takes to be intellectually conscious of the inner divine is to say, "I believe that there is a spark of divinity within me, that it cannot harmed, it is inviolable, etc., etc."  In fact, because language doesn't always match truth, a person could say, "I know there is a divine spark in me," and they could walk around with this "knowing" all day long, on an emotional high, and still be ego-driven. 

This intellectual knowledge (or "belief," or "faith") is the mere shadow of real knowing.  Yet, this quasi-knowledge isn't wrong.  It is the beginning of the path for most.  Most people must try on an idea intellectually before they launch into a direct experience of it, especially an idea like total oneness.

Among practitioners of ACIM I see the same patterns that Fundamental Christians exemplify.  Because they believe that this world is unreal they really, truly don't care about the torture of animals, or the mass killings of trees, or even unworthy humans.  My friend talked to a Born Again a couple of weeks ago, asking him how he felt about the fact that his wife is headed for hell (since she isn't Born Again).  The man, though he obviously loves her, said he wasn't worried because he knows that God will wipe away all of his memories of the unsaved.  Presto magico!  She may as well not even be...real. 

And don't think that because I mentioned animals and trees that I'm a radical freegan.  I'm not.  But I recognize that animals and plants have awareness, that they do suffer; they're real.

Believing this world to be totally unreal allows a person to choose apathy over empathy.  I don't think the belief directly and forcefully facilitates apathy, but it allows it.  It lets you think of life as a videogame in which you can do anything you want without consequence.

As far as trying to follow both paths, though...I'm reminded of a doctrine that I was taught coming up Mormon.  There's a doctrine called the "Sons of Perdition."  These damned souls are beings who have had God's glory and plan revealed to them in full, but have chosen to walk the dark path.  Supposedly these are the only souls who (in Mormon cosmology) are condemned to Outer Darkness--the Mormon version of hell.

At what point does your awareness become too strained to maintain that consciousness of the Godspark and live selfishly?  Is there really no middle ground?

You can't change a tiger's stripes,
but you can avoid its teeth.

Re: "A Course in Miracles"? Yay or Nay?

Dreamosis, I noticed you are from Salt Lick City.  I'm assuming Salt Lake City?  If I may ask are you still a Mormon?  If so have you seen the HBO show Big Love? Also, do you think Mitt Romney is a Son of Perdition?

Romney worth $250 million:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070813/ap_ … ney_wealth

From what I understand, if you pay your tithes all religions look the other way and allow you to do whatever you want. Church is a great place to network your business and learn how to hide your money in blind trusts. The more you make the more the church profits and the more power it attains.

The nice thing about reading a book like ACIM opposed to being a member of organized religion is that it saves about 10% of your income a year and like religion, if you don't like it, you can toss it.

When your awareness becomes too strained people become fearful and selfish and sell-out! I think that's what all the Godsparks taught us not to do.  The middle ground is always your safest bet.  Dang, I guess I should sell my Hummer!