Hi khatru,
As usual our views differ almost completely on all things philosophical. You've decided to confront me squarely the last couple of times you've seen me post and so i may as well more fully answer you and i suppose it may as well be here. You still seem to be espousing a philosophy that has been called by others in the esoteric literature over the past century or so, the 'luciferian philosophy'. No i didn't say you are lucifer or anything like it. But that your philosophy as you've expressed it to me resembles the core aspects of said [ahem] philosophy. Stay with me a minute here khatru. I'm not down on you.
Principly, the way i hear you, you mistake LICENCE for freedom.
In the prior thread you said to me: "There are no rules, we're allowed to do whatever we want, God doesn't care."
I mention this here because it puts your comments in this thread in sharper perspective. I percieve that your overall philosophy causes you to disbelieve in or deny responsibility for certain cause / effect relationships. The dense vibration of the planet and humanity is the effect of humanity's own use of energy expressed through this philosophy :
1) do as you will [we're allowed to do whatever we want],
2) your ignor-ance of the law [there are no rules]
3) your failure to discern the higher Will [God doesn't care].
Naturally that philosophy could have been embraced by any of us in prior lifetimes too but we are here in the present debating whether or not your current philosophy is valuable at all or true in relation to the current topic. You think so and i do not think so. That is clear because we dissagree with almost each other's every word. None of this makes you a bad guy in my view khatru but i think your luciferian philosophy has got it's problems.
[And as an aside khatru, if you think i am some kind of intellectual and spiritual 'philistine' because i use terms like "past, present and future" i believe they are perfectly valid terms to describe time. I will keep using them if you don't mind. If you want to keep arguing about my valid use of these temporal terms i invite you to first read my post number 58 in the "karma and re- incarnation" thread where i argue for "sequential incarnations"in matter and against the theory of "simultaneous incarnations"in matter. I challenge you to fully quote me [from that post] in a new thread [if you want] so you can either answer me there, prove me wrong or stop challenging me each time i use temporal terms. Just a friendly suggestion to you so that we can better define each others terms as we meet up on the forum in future. Yes future.]
The following is not off topic at all and is right on it considering the philosophical basis of your 'anti' approach to my posts lately and this one specifically. You don't appear to accept that there is a higher will in the person of your higher Self who would govern your use of creative energy in 3d and at all levels of being if you would only allow it. But to deny that higher Will for your life in 3d is to remain in a consciousness of separation no matter how many UNITY CONCEPTS you could ever mentally convey.
As i read your posts you fail to see a cause / effect relationship between the philosophy you espouse and the current state of the earth, humanity and society. I believe your mistake is to fail to concern yourself with the Will of your higher self as the active principle in your life at all levels of your being including 3d. The first consequence of this mistake is a fall into the consciousness of duality and therefore a vibrational separation from the higher Self. Consequently for anyone in this denial, "unity" can only be a mental concept and nothing more without actually acknowledging the true state of affairs and accepting the higher will as a first step to resolving duality consciousness. Your philosophy seems to proclaim that there is no problem [just different POVs] so therefore there is nothing to resolve... because all is "one" anyway.
Your philosophy is delivered with a twist that shunts the perceptual deficit back onto myself. In your view i am the one with the perceptive deficit because i am the one who can see the problem.... cause and effect. Nice one. eg. I see that the earth has become vibrationally dense and i percieve the power to raise it,... or... i have put a value on one thing over another,... or... that i see that the lower ego has become a law unto itself without recourse to the higher will of inner Spirit. etc etc.
The truth is that the consciousness of separation is a lower state of awareness caused by a vibrational fall in consciousness... ie. caused by an "exploration in LOWER consciousness". This freewill exploration forces a portion of one's spiritual self into a lower matrix [pattern] of selhood. Consequently the conscious awareness of wholeness is then lost and the limited perception of duality consciousness is born at a new [lower] level of awareness. Each one of us has done this so many times that we have produced the many layered labrinth of the pseudo- self.
The vibratory energy patterns which compose these 'fallen' aspects of self [and the larger cosmos] cannot simply be denied nor even validated with blithe terms such as " it just is". That will not help one iota in expanding our spiritual perception of ourselves or the problems we face. Those lower [vibratory] aspects of self must be transmuted by surrendering the lower state of consciousness to the will of the higher Self.
khatru, it seems you imagine that there are no consequences for this denial [of the governing principle of the higher will of the higher Self ] or that if there are consequences then it's no big deal because it's a valid consequence due to a valid exploration in consciousness. ie. the idea that we oppose no- one and nothing by exploring anything we want. You know i disagree. I don't deny anyone's freewill to so explore, but i simply point out that the consequences of exploring a lower vibration are to BECOME that lower vibration which then limit's one's perception to that lower [vibratory] point of view.
I appreciate that you are also saying similar things in that regard but it seems we depart when describing the way we got there and the way out. But to one extent or another that is where we are all at on planet earth no matter how we got there. Consequently, so too is the earth.
The limitations of perception which result from said explorations in consciousness are more than academic too. Look around you and see the deplorable state of some among humanity. Those perceptual limitations of identity are obviously the cause of immense suffering not the least being the constant round of re- incarnation and the consequent vulnerability to ever lower forces. Will their souls wake up from their self imposed karmic burdens in this life and accept their responsibility to transmute it all?... The next life or the next or the one after that? There are no guarantees about arriving at conscious spiritual awareness at any time. Ever. This is what concerns me about myself and my fellow travellers.
Here's a [not so hypothetical] question for you. How far down the hole do you think we should drag the spirit [in our explorations of consciousness] before you would percieve a problem, the cause of the problem and it's solution? ...for ourselves and the earth? In general, from my own reading of some of the newer literature the new age sophistry of total denial or total passive acceptance couched in superior spiritual lingo is no perception at all and it is no solution at all. It is like offering a lead brick to a drowning man. It is actually worse than useless because it causes him to add to his own burden.
So khatru, things just "are"?
I have always asked myself questions... "How are things really?... How did this or that happen? How do things become manifest? How can i change a manifestation? I'd guess you would tell me that whatever i place my attention on i will manifest.? If i percieve a problem with any manifestation then the problem is there by virtue of my own perception?
Whether or not that is part of your own philosophy i would answer it by saying that we have the spiritual power to place our attention on a problem and cause it to UNMANIFEST. That is... to change the current form of something to a higher form. Yes we can raise the lower levels of ourselves and our earth because after all we have caused ourselves and our earth to fall into densify of form. Strange but true. Therefore we can also transmute ourselves and our earth back into the luminous forms that they once were IN 3D TIME AND SPACE ...not just at higher levels but at ALL levels including 3d.
Khatru you claim that the luminosity of ourselves and the earth is present now , but that it can't be seen through the lens of the subjective self. With respect to you, i see that statement as another denial of earth's potential from someone who cannot accept that the luminosity is meant to manifest in 3d and will not be hidden when it does. But i say we have to help transmute the overlay of dense karmic substance and thereby raise the vibration of the earth into a self luminous manifestation in 3d. It hasn't happened yet but i have on occasion seen it happen to my own body and i so am certain that the same light will become visibly manifest in the earth in time.
I wonder, should i not meditate on the problems [of self and the earth] in order to get to the heart of the problem in order to solve the sequences of cause and effect? In order to percieve and solve the causes which WILL SOLVE the effects? I think i should. Could i speak of my perceptions gained in this way or will i be subject to ridicule by a few. No matter, i don't fear the speculations of others when they dissagree with me. And neither should anyone else.
Perhaps you haven't percieved the cause / effect relationships in that which appears to your view khatru. It is challenging after all. The challenge is to change. Perhaps you don't remember what is recorded in your own memory and the memory of the earth. Perhaps you don't wan't to know but i doubt that. The concepts we hold near and dear sometimes need to be re-arranged... some even discarded. And yes khatru, i also percieve that separation is a matter of perception. Perceptions have produced the matter. All matter including our disagreement. And the perception of separation is a limited perception. True.. Have you thought about the cause of that limitation?
Do you know the cause of a limited state of perception? A consciousness of separation.
Do you know the cause of a consciousness of separation? Freewill explorations of a lower vibration.
In general the luciferian concept described earlier denies this truth and replaces it with the lie of "freedom" [LICENCE] without law. That was the first lie that began the devolution in consciousness and it will be the last one to overcome within. That last rebellious aspect of self will be surrendered and it will part the last veil of separation between the soul and the inner God.
My own life shows me that the higher Self wills NOT to empower or enlighten the incarnate soul WITHOUT a oneness of purpose with that soul. This is key khatru. If i had to boil down everything i know about how to unlock the CONSCIOUS knowledge of the spiritual Self it would be [dare i say it] "right attitude" in that relationship between the incarnate aspect of self [the soul] and the spiritual Self. When that oneness of purpose is sorted, then the Spirit can and does descend into matter to embrace the soul who surrenders. That communion, experienced over and over again, heals the soul of the consciousness of separation.
When found, that spiritual relationship can heal the soul from all sense of separation over the term of one lifetime even. Claiming that "wholeness" is already "so" is to mistake one's current state of [manifest] spiritual attainment with the goal of conscious oneness. Most importantly, that claim denies the real path of surrender in between. That path of soul surrender to higher Will is essential to the ACTUAL REALISATION of wholeness and that is why the luciferian philosophy denies it and why that philosophy is so insidious in it's intellectual sophistry. It is devoid of spiritual intelligence and understanding but it masquerades as both.
Although you have expressed the core concepts of the 'luciferian philosophy' khatru somehow i doubt that you could take it to the nth degree like others have done. I'd say you espouse it more as a 'declaration of independence' from the abuses of those who claim to be "God's best servants". I hope i understand you alright and that we can get on alright. You won't be surprised to know that i also hope [without condescension] that you get bored with the 'luciferian' concept quickly or that you find a new definition of higher Selfhood that allows for higher Will.
If we deny in ourselves a higher GOVERNING force to direct our freewill how can we expect to rise in consciousness to be conscious of a higher point of view? We cannot both defy the higher will AND become it. That has been my obvious point and our success or failure at that attainment has it's obvious ramifications for the topic under discussion.
Cheers khatru.
