debunking jesus (Page 1 of 4)

I meet christian people, they are helping handicaped people, children and poor ones without asking for money.
I speak to christians, they talk to me about peace and are living it in thei lifes the best they can.
I listen to christian radio, and I feel harmony.
I listen to monks and I just hear humility and happiness.
I think the true essence of christianism is really good for mankind.

Destroying its roots is destroying a good source of happiness and true joy.

The "people" who may be taking over this planet are going to have a hard job convincing
the billion or so members of Christianity that God doesn't exit.
They would rather maintain that.
At least the God that we all have been taught that exists.
There are many good people in all religions that try their best to heal the world.
It is not these that the conspiracies/theories are aimed at,( although it does imply that they
have been deceived, and are under a spell, ) but the establishment, that is, the religion,
whichever religion that may be.
Pieces of the truth are released from time to time, to establish new religions and keep
the easily board human mind, stimulated with partial truths, to keep the easily lead human mind,
sheparded into new religions, those that recently claim pre-existence is real, for instance, stunning them
with wow wow factors but never dreaming of releasing the whole picture.
It's mostly all about knowledge ,not ridicule, who has it and what is done with it.
David Icke and others like him and his listeners, do not hate anyone because of their beliefs,
at least, for their sake, I hope not.
They are just presenting another version of reality, other possibilities, that may be going on here
and not saying you have to beleive this but do with the info what you will.
In the passed, Christianity gave the info and said believe in this or die.
Listen to your heart and not what has been layed up in your head through indoctrination from birth.
Not everything those you have mentioned is taken as truth but after serious contemplation and
cross-referencing of multiple sources, yours and there's, I will draw my own conclusions.
These will probably concur with my issues above but who knows,I like to keep an open, yet guarded mind.
I am very gratefull to David and people like him.
I only use to think I had an open mind but the little doubts that keep niggling me,..
I been taught to ask questions, not to accept anything at face value,
to open the mind more and that there are possible answers to the doubts that plague you.

I don't beleive anything, I only accept as truth that which has proven itself to be such.
I rely on my inner-self to manifest truth to myself.
My inner-self or higher-self cannot lie to me.

Bit strong that isn't it?
Who is "you"?
I hate no-one.
You seem to be generalising.
Dogma has no place in my world.
Goverments, New World Orders and Aliens also have no place in my world.
I have no time for them.
Other humans may persecute Religious followers in the future,I have no idea,
I only know, I will not be one of them.

Your impying who? All are going to beleive in the aliens and Christians are wrong? were all going to get chipped, join the NWO and persecute Christians? etc etc?
Not me mate.
Not many of us.
This goes against the very grain/reason of  the "Turth" movement.
I'm not sure what your trying to imply here, it seems a bit "all over the place".
Many believe most major religious movements were created by these very "Aliens"
Many truth seekers certainly live in a different world to most Christians.
We do not see the world as "others" would have us see it
but rather look at it through very different eyes
and these eyes do not look with hate or rose tainted glasses.

True , I have no idea how the future will turn out but we are already looking for this.
I certainly don't beleive the "Aliens" are our friends.
You see were I'm going with this, you points are already proven in the truth movement?
Perhaps once the NWO is established religion will no longer be required as a means of "control".
Control has passed from Rulers, Kings and Queens, to Religions, religious leaders, to Centralised  Banks to......were next?
Smoke and mirrors, it's all smoke a mirrors and all the while,behind the scenes, sit  the unseen "Elite" who know the true nature of
how everything has come about, what is going on,what is going to happen, what happens to us when we "die", who "God" really is, the true nature of the universe, etc etc.
The greatest trick a "Devil", (Higher Intelligence) could ever pull, would not be to convince the world that he did not exist but rather,  convince the world that he was that worlds "God".
Using the concept of a "Devil"  advantageously.
FlipFlop.
The intent is to expose the lie , if this debunks anything or anyone, then that is the effect of truth in action.
Exposing the Masterpiece as a fake when the layers are peeled away, does not make it yet a Masterpiece.

Why would the Illuminate want us to beleive that Aliens are actually who we thought was God,
to debunk Jesus, Mohammad, Moses etc, then allow this to lead to the conclusion that they do exist and do pull the strings?
These figures and religions are clearly a tool of control and responsible for the
worst attrocities every commited in this planets history?
This has instigated, sustained and allowed for humans to be constantly in fear and conflict with one another.
Divided and ruled.

Remember, although we are yet primative in intelligence and knowledge,
Way back when, mankind was virtually blind.
Show something as simple as a biro to a human 6000 years ago and you too would be a God.
Perhaps our world is being manipulated from a very different concept of time.
Can you rule this out too?

For me, personally, it's really an "inside" thing, you know?
I always had questions and suspicions regarding many elements of Religion and life.
I use to wonder how something can be created out of nothing, ie the Big Bang.
How those living in "so called" Heaven ,knowing "God", experiencing the Love and Light,
could reject a plan of advancemet, that only entailed  one visit to  earth, death then
some great reward.
"Yeah Lucifer, we'll go with you cos Gods wrong, and/ or as beings of light
we want to go into eternal misery and hurt or take as many people with us as we can."
It just doesn't add up.
Virgin birth? Surley artificial insemination can do this?
Have you read "The Gods of Eden"?
There is much documented phenomenon by humans ,as experienced,  to back up the Alien God claim,
or forces of higher intelligences operating hundereds and thousands of years ago.

When you hear and read all the material that is out there, supporting or debunking all these claims
of a Matrix, Alien Agendas, Illuminati, etc, it does, as one speaker says, start to dawn on you that
it is all plain common sense and as obvious as the nose on your face.

I have been duped before, Mormons and Scientology, two of the religions I fell for,
I was niave but no longer, I walk into this one with eyes wide open, being lead by
forces higher than myself,every fibre of my being is telling me, this is the truth,
kicking and screaming, I resist, until I can no longer allow the lie to smother the truth.

It all just makes perfect sense to me.

Agreed

As I said earlier, debunking a one-for-one correlation between an ancient savior god and Jesus does not dismantle the theory that he fits the mold of the savior god archetype and has many features of this model. It is easy to "debunk" comparisons on an ad hoc basis because he is not a "copycat" figure, he is like all the other examples of sacrificed heroes: a composite of features. I am not going to "just pick one" because I know it can be proven that Jesus is different. He is unlike any one of them. This doesn't make his story original. Take the whole of features shared across the board of hero myths, stories of sacraficed savior gods, and tally them up and you'll see the similiraties in all of them, including Capt. Jebus. This exercise in "shooting down" any comparison between this or that god and Jesus is futile. It does, however, show the inadequacy of the "Jesus is a copycat argument". I agree with that. In my earlier post I provided a link that makes no such argument, perhaps only mentioning it in passing, but instead relies on early Christian writings, the Gospel, and an examination of the historical, ideological and political milieu in which Christianity arose. The author finds no clear reference to an physical ministry of Jesus but instead sees that the early Christians themselves thought of Jesus as a god who existed only in a spiritual realm. If you want I also recommend the book with the same name and by the same author of the website. It can be ordered on Amazon and I don't think it's very expensive. It is the most concise work arguing for a mythicist theory of Jesus yet written. Apologists have yet to "debunk" any of it in a meaningful way without relying on faith-based arguments.
In regards to Christianity as presented by "the founder", there are several passages attributed to Jesus in the Bible which seem quite in line with the destructive, tyranical and controlling attitude of the "NWO types". I'm not saying Jesus was an evil man incarnated as an agent of the Illuminati. Fictional carachters aren't evil, nor incarnate. And we also do not need to equate the Catholic church to Christianity as a whole, an obvious mistake I and many do not make. By the way, who you calling a "new age cat"?

I am happy to oblige. First, let's quickly situate the conception of early Christianity in its historical and cultural milieu. It arose in the Roman empire surrounded by Greco-Roman salvation cults and Jewish philosophy which have been influencing each other since at least the 4th century BCE when Alexander the Great conquered most of the known world. Alexander's empire soon fragmented into warring mini-empires and eventually Rome rolled east and imposed its own absolute rule. It was a troubled, often pessimistic time. Stoics, Epicureans, Platonists and others offered new moral and intellectual ways of coping with life and the unpredictable world. Understanding the ultimate Deity and establishing personal ethics were central concerns of all these movements. Wandering philosophers became a kind of popular clergy, frequenting the marketplace and people's homes. Healing gods, Oriental mysticism, a whole paraphernalia of magic and astrology were added to the pot to cope with another dimension to the world's distress: the vast panoply of unseen spirits and demons and forces of fate which were now believed to pervade the very atmosphere men and women moved in, harassing and crippling their lives. The buzzword was personal "salvation." And for the growing number who believed it could not be achieved in the world, it became salvation from the world. Redeeming the individual grew into a Hellenistic industry.
Many of the pagan cults centered around a concept of salvation and had a savior deity as its vehicle for attaining such salvation. For example, Dionysus was known as "the liberator" (Greek "eleutherios") and he was said to liberate through a state of extacy or madness (a common method of salvation). It is inconsequencial that such gods may did not die on the cross specifically, or resurect in three days, or were said to be born of virgin mothers in the literal sense. It is the main motifs that are important here and point to common ideologies. To show that there are differences in the literal details between Jesus and other mythical savior gods means nothing. He still follows the pattern and fits the bill. Many apologists focus too much on these trivial details to attempt to segregate the Jesus character and story from other contemporary myths, thereby isolating from it from its context. Indeed, most of the savior gods differ from each other as well. Are we to assume they are therefore entirely independent constructs? That they had no shared influence or inspiration from common ideas of the times? The only thing that is truly unique in the story of Jesus is that at some point myth was turned into man and his devotees began believing in a historical life that never happened and that was unknown to the earliest followers of Jesus. Paul himself fails to describe him in any terms that would indicate a physical incarnation, nor does he recall any events of Jesus life in the earthly realm.
As for the prophecies of the Torah, I'll simply ask this question. Which is the more likely scenario: that (A) apologists within the early Christian movement sought legitimize their cult and concretize their Jesus myth (especially to the Jewish who was resistant to assimilation and to the idea of a man being god) by painting him as the epitome of Judaic prophecy; or (B) the ancient Torah phophecies actually came true.