Topic: "Success IS failure"

Is my Higher Self wrong? Is my ego interfering with the flow from within?

What do you"think" about this statement verses what do you "feel" about this?

Fun fact: Great Tits are common in Europe

To know love is to know trust; to know oneself is to know truth
~~carefulcarpenter


1+1=1

Re: "Success IS failure"

The ego always wants to be number 1 in everything. The higher self/spiritual wants to hang back and just be. So there is a conflict between these two. Perhaps again we have to meet in the middle?

Re: "Success IS failure"

Sounds like a painful "reality remark" about the duality of being both human with limited consciousness (and ego) and spirit-in-form with heart and higher aspects.

To succeed in the ways of the world would be a failure to attain spiritual goals. To succeed in one's spiritual aspirations is to fail in the goals of the ego and limited mind-designed world.

Or... at least... it seems that way while duality consciousness is being integrated/unified with in the heart.

We walk in two worlds simultaneously, each seemingly diametrically opposed to the other. This is, of course, an illusion, but dispelling it and standing firm in the center - entering truth and the realm of the real (consiousness-wise) - is difficult for even the most courageous and stalwart seeker.

"The most important decision you have to make is whether you live in a hostile or friendly universe."
~ Albert Einstein

The real voyage of discovery consists not in seeking new landscapes, but in having new eyes. ~Marcel Proust

The evolution of humanity is an evolution of the heart. The path is through the heart.

Re: "Success IS failure"

How about succeeding in the world in order to accomplish a spiritual goal? Is that not an option as well?

Re: "Success IS failure"

When higher self offers a statement for contemplation, the value exists in the exploration of it, not necessarily in finding a quick and easy solution.

Feeling one's way through all the ways the statement is true... and false... yields tremendous reward to the consciousness, increasing awareness. Compassion for all who fall anywhere on either side of the equation of the above statement or are caught in the spanse of tension it creates (discovered while exploring possibilities), is a by-product of that exploration that serves the Self and the Whole immensely, as well.

"The most important decision you have to make is whether you live in a hostile or friendly universe."
~ Albert Einstein

The real voyage of discovery consists not in seeking new landscapes, but in having new eyes. ~Marcel Proust

The evolution of humanity is an evolution of the heart. The path is through the heart.

6 (edited by Baron 2007-05-10 15:05:43)

Re: "Success IS failure"

lol, I didn't mean to sound like I was trying to find a quick and easy solution, I was only offering another answer to the question. Like you said, I'm exploring all the options, and no one had yet offered up the choice of succeeding in both simultaneously.

7 (edited by Sowelu 2007-05-10 15:59:59)

Re: "Success IS failure"

Baron wrote:

lol, I didn't mean to sound like I was trying to find a quick and easy solution, I was only offering another answer to the question.

My apologies, Baron, I didn't mean to imply you were. Your post just triggered another response in me, to the initial post by titmouse_, and in that sense, I thank you.

Exploration, as I used the word, is an activity involving both the mind and emotions. Ideas are empty without experiencing them, and so to explore something is to "wear the idea" and feel how it moves in reality. It involves encountering the fears certain possibilities trigger, the joy others raise, and the shifts made to the original idea as these emotions move life force through the arena of exploration.

At some point, this activity inevitably calls the heart into the arena of exploration, where... from that center point... all possibilities regarding said statement are felt as part of a whole truth. Resolution occurs when there is no longer a pull to any bias with regard to the statement, and acceptance is all-inclusive. From this place, manifestation of change in one's life - as a direct result of the completion of this activity - can flow unimpeded. And perhaps that would look just as you state in your response, Baron. wink

"The most important decision you have to make is whether you live in a hostile or friendly universe."
~ Albert Einstein

The real voyage of discovery consists not in seeking new landscapes, but in having new eyes. ~Marcel Proust

The evolution of humanity is an evolution of the heart. The path is through the heart.

Re: "Success IS failure"

belljar wrote:

The ego always wants to be number 1 in everything. The higher self/spiritual wants to hang back and just be. So there is a conflict between these two. Perhaps again we have to meet in the middle?

The ego wants justification and validation, yes-- I agree with what you say. The ego wants credit. Even for altruistic efforts, the ego wants credit.

I've made a breakthrough in my life; a profound breakthrough. This seems to be a conjunction between the physical world and the spiritual world.  My ego does not want credit. My intuition says I better be ready for accepting the consequneces of past achievements and the rewards from past failures. My Higher Self is intervening with an awareness of the unity between worlds. Logic says: to succeed for the benefit of the ego I must cease my spiritual growth, but my intuition tells me this will lead to failure.  What I am seeing, right in front of my eyes, the hidden truths, the insight and the image both entangled together--the paradoxes of reality--right before me.  I can't tell whether I am being shown things consciously by people aiding in my wisdom, or  whether they are unconsciously telling me about their shadow sides.  Truths are flowing--and I am at peace.  I am as peaceful as I have ever experienced.  I feel like this concept has been handed to me to totally transform the way I see the world.  It is beautiful, really!!

I am at the pinacle of my life right now, this moment.  I am not affraid. I seek your perspectives. I am coming into the Oneness, or so it seems. Failure has served me well in life to reach this point. All the efforts to succeed failed. The lessons all fall in line. I must be living a dream. I am humbled by the moment. I share this with you because I know that some of you here at NR apprehend this universal wisdom. I share this quote to show my respect.


"I am a flyfisherman; I succeed at catch and release; I bring home no fish for proof; they swim in my dreams"
~~carefulcarpenter

Fun fact: Great Tits are common in Europe

To know love is to know trust; to know oneself is to know truth
~~carefulcarpenter


1+1=1

9 (edited by titmouse_ 2007-05-10 18:07:24)

Re: "Success IS failure"

I am a carpenter;"handyman" is a better description based on what society tells me they value. This is my current project coming to fruition.  This has been the physical side of a spiritual journey that has brought me to this point. My customer tells me I that I am more than a handyman. A good friend tells me that "failure" is not a word in her vocabulary. She says I should substitute "failure" with "learning".  I say "failure" has been more enriching than my successes.

"I am a flyfisherman"  I caught a big fish.  Applied synchronicity, I say. Am I crazy??  This is not the first fish I have caught and released.  Mycustomer feels he has found an unknown master and wants to tell the world.  I would no longer be a handyman--and I would have a harder time remaining unknown.  I feel success may be my greatest failure. I could no longer help those covertly.  I say,  "I work for those who don't have enough". I go door to door offering opportunity for people who say, "you just can't find good people any more".

See my dilema?

"I am a flyfisherman for men's souls."

I am a master, yes.  The current customer will be paying this handyman around 50k for 9 months work--a bargain if you only knew.  He tells me in two years his home will be worth 200K more for my good work.  He wants me to advertise.  If I do then how can I help others find the trust I want to share?  Yes, this is what I give them--trust in another human being.  I give something to affluent people that they can't get anywhere. I give them myself.  I ask for little in return-- for my spiritual riches have grown beyond comprehension.  I love to fish.

Here is a small snapshot of the current work. First I fixed his ceiling where water had ruined the plaster. Then I asked if I could make him some money, so he let me do the kitchen cabinets. Now he wants to tell the world what he discovered.  How can I succeed if he tells the world?  They will not believe a handyman did this kind of work. The real work shows in his smile. You can't place a material value on that.

I hope you can appreciate why "catch and release" has so much spiritual value to me.  I live an authentic, poetic life. I am so rich.

"I fix broken hearts...I am your handyman"
~~James Taylor

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a371/titmouse_/IMG_5118b.jpg

Fun fact: Great Tits are common in Europe

To know love is to know trust; to know oneself is to know truth
~~carefulcarpenter


1+1=1

Re: "Success IS failure"

Oh what a test it would be.  To be physically successful and still grow spiritually.

Fishing is good to get through the winter.

But come harvest the farmer doesn't send out a few people to the fields.  The farmer sees the harvest moon and looks for all opportunities to get the ripened crop away from the weeds as quickly as possible.  The farmer looks everywhere for an able hand to assist in the harvest.

That's my humble perspective.

Re: "Success IS failure"

And the able hand says "where do you want me to serve?"

And the list is endless. Amazingly, each time I ask this, a great crop appears before my eyes and ears; and I am working for months and years.  I tried to see if failure was even possible, but I was always directed to the ripest crop. An able farmhand will never go hungry.

I asked to teach others, as a matter of fact I sent many applications, but it appears not many want to harvest the bounty layed across the earth. I believe it takes a great hunger for one to ask, and for one to listen profoundly.

Fun fact: Great Tits are common in Europe

To know love is to know trust; to know oneself is to know truth
~~carefulcarpenter


1+1=1

12

Re: "Success IS failure"

Wow titmouse that is really beautiful work!  You are a master indeed.  I am not much of a carpenter myself but I have a huge fascination with it, I would love to learn from you. 

I have gotten the same message "success IS failure" many times myself.  If I had achieved the success and feeling of accomplishment I wanted to have as a musician I would be a very different person for it.  If I had finished college and taken on a successful career I would be miserable.  If I were making a lot of money right now it would distract me from other pursuits.  And so on.  Instead I take relatively low-paying jobs that are far below my level of ability.  Sometimes other people figure out how smart I am and tell me I should go pursue this or that line of advancement.  But I don't want that.  I know that I am fulfilling my purpose by being able to adapt, learn fast and go where I am needed.  My jobs always involve working with the public in some way.  I feel like I have an opportunity to bring energy to people through this in ways that I wouldn't be able to give them otherwise.  Even when I am just working with merchandise instead of directly with people, this is a vehicle for passing on forms of energy.  When you take care with your work and make things pleasing to the eye, it lifts others spirits.

Re: "Success IS failure"

Your failure comes when others find out how smart you are. This rejection is grace hidden behind the persona/ego of those who conspired to send you away.  Very few people are fired because of their incompetance--this is often negotiable.  How many companies, institutions, bureaucracies have you experienced a lack of follow-through?  How many people, educators, and companies told you if you worked hard and were productive you would do well in the world?

Why would a master need to go door to door?

I wondered for years--"What am I missing?" ; "What am I not doing correctly?"

I worked for a high-end furniture company that has the best image in the local market.  They hired me on the spot when they were in need of an installer.  At first they offered me $30/hr (1999).  I asked if they would consider a percent (piece work) situation, where they dictated to me what I was worth to complete the work as a sub-contract employee. By the last 6 months of the year I was making $100/hr and had not had even one return service call on my work.  January 12th they fired me. Why?

The owner said, It's your 'quality', CC".

A year later I was working for another company where one of their cusomers was very authentic and respectful of my work, so I took the liberty to ask why a successful company would get rid of someone who performed at the top of their ability.  I told him the story.

He said, "They didn't say they let you go because of your 'poor quality' did they?

I said, "Aha!! No they didn't!!"

They got rid of me because I was so much better and more productive than the rest of the workers, and my rate of pay was better than the CEO's; I had to be broken and discarded.  Now when I go door to door, people who know this practice will give me a chance to prove myself.  America does not live by it's image of success--this is the false ego-image. It succeeds by most people willing to negotiate their worth downward.  This is capitalism. They must reward the mediocre with security and self-esteem and cast off "the keystones".  This means failure is the root of your freedom--not succeess; although the wisdom behind  "Succees IS failure" is more evident to those who have another wisdom.....

"Love thyself; know thyself"

I have learned from those honest enough with themselves to have aided me on my path in life.  They knew I was rich by other measures than money and status.  Independent people always seem to fight the same fight as I have.  If you want to advance in the system you have to play by the rules.  I am a rebel.  The new revolution will be the individual.  The system has been fighting a covert war against the individual because it knows that the "second coming" will be a grass roots effort which supports the individual.  Freedom is for those courageous enough to know themselves, and to crusade for the right of self-expression.

I go door to door so that the people who have influence in the system can no longer convince others to  believe the lies--"You just can't find good people any more" or "the best people are just too expensive".


You may find that your greatest freedom comes from temporary work. Most people cannot function without supervision. A temporary employee lets the scoudrels of the hook, because when they don't need you any longer they don't have to make up phoney reasons for why 'you are unproductive/unprofitable/unmanageable/etc'.   You should be self-employed, at least partime.  smile

Fun fact: Great Tits are common in Europe

To know love is to know trust; to know oneself is to know truth
~~carefulcarpenter


1+1=1

Re: "Success IS failure"

titmouse_ wrote:

Here is a small snapshot of the current work. First I fixed his ceiling where water had ruined the plaster. Then I asked if I could make him some money, so he let me do the kitchen cabinets. Now he wants to tell the world what he discovered.  How can I succeed if he tells the world?  They will not believe a handyman did this kind of work. The real work shows in his smile. You can't place a material value on that.

I hope you can appreciate why "catch and release" has so much spiritual value to me.  I live an authentic, poetic life. I am so rich.

"I fix broken hearts...I am your handyman"
~~James Taylor

Beautiful neat work!http://www.mundofotografico.com.br/forum/html/emoticons/thmbup.gif
Even better if it is a portal like the wardrobe from the 'The Chronicles of Narnia'  tongue

Bye, Pictus

--------------------
http://pictus.co.nr

Re: "Success IS failure"

Success *is* failure, you are absolutely right, titmouse.. everything is precisely its opposite... but different people will interpret it differently.. most will struggle to grasp it and re-evaluate their lives in the process.. some begin to see its value and try to live by it.. but ultimately, if you understand it, then you realize it is a funny little paradox born of convention, useful to poke egos with and help wake people up.

Neither success nor failure exist fundamentally, which is why it may be said that in essential terms both success and failure are conventionally one and the same thing.

I can say right now with a fair bit of confidence that your present spiritual breakthrough/awakening/enlightenment is a failure disguised as a success.. I think what you're doing is basically great, and your work sounds noble and fulfilling... but speaking more profoundly, the best teacher is always the best student, so don't stop now!

To be honest, what puzzles me most is how you distinguish between your ego, intuition, HigherSelf, and logic. You still have much work to do, which can only proceed if you are fearless about facing all your "successes" that hold you where you are, that slow your evolution.

It's great that the moment humbles you, but it is greater still if you humble the moment.. and you better believe that the moment cannot be fooled with fake tricks! True humility is audacity to go beyond your potential. As long as success satisfies you, then your success will always be failure, per the working of duality. But if you strive neither towards success nor away from failure, then you can fundamentally enjoy either/both conventional illusions at your whim.

It is difficult for me to know what to say to you here.. I do not know your entire situation or life history, your astrological sign, your personal beliefs and convictions, etc.. obviously I am taking the approach of devil's advocacy, which I find to generally be the most helpful... if you want my honest opinion, then my greatest fear for you is that you are straying towards the fluffy side, which is neither LHP nor RHP I might add, but which is rather a primary symptom of the spiritual confusion of our time.

I am very happy for you, happy to hear that you are "fearless" and "at peace"! I hope that you are these things, however, in a healthy way!

I will come back to this thread soon with more thoughts.

Namaste

nothing is sacred, the deconstructing and letting-be of all things, clarity of sight, the realization of no-thing(s), Nothing