Topic: Total surrender

This has been inspired by reading Joseph Benners the way out and brotherhood from Montalks book of the month link.
If you substitute the word god for higher self or the source of all or the Tao its very cool and no doubt the source for many more recent books on the same theme.

Now i would be very worried about total surrender to God from a dogmatic religious viewpoint as i have it mind THAT god is external and a kind of usurper or false god but the inner god is a different kettle of fish altogether.
Still, first thoughts are when the ego kicks in saying it can't give up its sovereignty and free will to ????? but we know the ego is like a program and not the real you as such and its the ego that causes most of our problems in life.
What are your thoughts on total surrender to the god within and making your ego subservient to this divine will, do think this may align your life with your higher selfs wishes or plans or do you have any misgivings?

I know that one day we will all have to  surrender our egos anyway upon death and surrender is a major theme of spirituality.

Its not like we are fractions of the whole but rather versions of the whole.

2 (edited by Transcix 2007-03-22 08:54:36)

Re: Total surrender

We do not surrender our ego to anything at all... we surrender it to Nothing.. that is, we surrender *ourself* to *ourself*, without distinction of who we are beyond the (metaphysical) Truth that we know. We never surrender our ego because we never surrender our sovereignty, except in terms of changing ourself and the way we identify and evolve our individual existence. The ego is an extension of the HigherSelf, and the soul does not exist apart from both of these things considered as one thing. Think of it... there exist countless types of astral spirits that are quite egocentric in nature indeed, so the ego is hardly exclusively a product of incarnation.. you are *only ever* your ego, but it is a more or less good or bad thing depending on how much knowledge, power, and responsibility you possess in terms of self-realization.

nothing is sacred, the deconstructing and letting-be of all things, clarity of sight, the realization of no-thing(s), Nothing

Re: Total surrender

I've spent a lot of time thinking on subjects like this, and haven't come up with a definitive answer as of yet.  My first inclination is to refuse to surrender completely to anything, since I've seen what happens to spiritual seekers who do this.  All it takes is one guru getting you to surrender to "spirit," and then slyly substituting himself for spirit... and then you have a person who rules you completely.

Same thing with Christians... surrender to Jesus, then substitute your preacher/ minister/ priest, etc.  This is what the Catholic church has done, and need I say more?

On the other hand, I have to face the possibility that this is simply my ego talking, and that I really do need to surrender my will to something higher.  Here's where we get into trouble, because how do I know for certain that I'm listening to spirit/ higher self/ God/ Goddess, and not some disincarnate entity-- or a hidden aspect of my own shadow self?  How do I know unless I allow my analytical mind to remain intact?   This is why I never want to give up my abilities of discernment.

And here's how I feel about ego:  I think it's vital and necessary as long as we're in the 3D plane.  Why?  Because if it weren't there, we wouldn't know ourselves from anyone or anything else, and we would have no individuation.  The baby at birth has no concept of "self," and thus has no idea that thing waving around him is his own hand.  He  also has no idea that "mother" is separate from him.  He has no ability to filter any information coming to him, whether it's light, sound, feeling, etc.  That's fine for a baby, but not for me.

Ego is the skin that allows us to enjoy this illusion of separateness.  And I used the word 'enjoy' on purpose.  The key is to tame the ego so that it works for us,  not the other way around.  Like a good dog-- let it be a dog, sniff other dog's butts, howl with other dogs when there's a siren, and lick its own hooha.  But if it's going to go for walks with you, it needs to be under control enough that it doesn't knock other people down.    And you need to stop it from eating "snacks" out of the cat box. smile  That last one has no value as an analogy, but I added it just for fun.

Re: Total surrender

Transcix wrote:

We do not surrender our ego to anything at all... we surrender it to Nothing.. that is, we surrender *ourself* to *ourself*, without distinction of who we are beyond the (metaphysical) Truth that we know. We never surrender our ego because we never surrender our sovereignty, except in terms of changing ourself and the way we identify and evolve our individual existence. The ego is an extension of the HigherSelf, and the soul does not exist apart from both of these things considered as one thing. Think of it... there exist countless types of astral spirits that are quite egocentric in nature indeed, so the ego is hardly exclusively a product of incarnation.. you are *only ever* your ego, but it is a more or less good or bad thing depending on how much knowledge, power, and responsibility you possess in terms of self-realization.

Thats food for thought, i think i know what you mean when you say we can't surrender ourself to ourself like god can't surrender to god other than parts coming together or going apart sense i feel.

Have you not sometimes been other than your ego? by plants or meditation or whatever route? In daily life here seems to be a separate observer and ego though i am not sure if these are just higher ego functions of self observation so know we have to tame the ego at least


Lono you have said so well what i feel about it too.
Maybe its enough to tame the ego and live a noble life without so called "surrender" . Rather than the word surrender maybe deciding to "align your ego self with the highest and most noble frequencies of your entire being" sounds better smile

Its not like we are fractions of the whole but rather versions of the whole.

Re: Total surrender

Barefoot Doc wrote:

Rather than the word surrender maybe deciding to "align your ego self with the highest and most noble frequencies of your entire being" sounds better smile

Very well put!

Re: Total surrender

Lono, this is a question I was grappling with awhile back, and I basically came to the same conclusion.   Align yourself to the Higher Power, and get in tune with it, and ask for its help, but always at the same time keep your sense of discernment sharply honed to avoid getting into trouble, should something else try and step in.

Re: Total surrender

I'l throw this out there from this article The Invisible War on Humanity:

It has ever been the case, but is particularly so in these days of increasing planetary tension and catharsis, that it requires an uncommonly stout, dedicated and devout soul to go the genuine spiritual Path: a path that necessitates relinquishment of the ways of the world upon the sane journey towards freedom from the imprisoning matrix. For many earnest seekers and lovers of Truth in our troubled and very challenging times, a major part of going The Way is to simply endure the onslaught in trained dispassion and surrender, often suffering one's relegation to a meek, spiritually-limited but ever vigilantly-policed consciousness. For only in unconditional surrender can one minimize the further trouble that is so often brought about due to hasty, if quite understandable, reactions in a world where true Justice together with any sense of fair play by the righteous is entirely absent. "Resist not evil" - Jesus. Faithful endurance is the virtue of this 'hour of crucifixion', as was demonstrated by Jesus on the cross, and it is normal and natural for many to feel that God has forsaken them.

It is the responsibility and opportunity of each soul to seek out the truth of things, and to seek thoroughly and conscientiously, so that we may see clearly what is taking place in the world. Even though it may be unpleasant we must not be afraid to confront reality squarely, for in seeking the Truth we must acknowledge both the good and the bad. Then in seeing clearly, we may adopt an objective attitude, understanding the costs and tribulations that we will necessarily experience on the Path, while proceeding in willingness and supplication to what is true. Despite all outer appearances, we should remain faithful to our inner calling, whatever form that may take. The wise do not indulge in hopefulness, nor do they dwell in regret, but instead address things just as they are, so that with awareness, honesty and steadfastness they may go The Way in spiritual surrender.

8 (edited by Transcix 2007-03-24 19:19:10)

Re: Total surrender

Barefoot Doc wrote:

Have you not sometimes been other than your ego? by plants or meditation or whatever route? In daily life here seems to be a separate observer and ego though i am not sure if these are just higher ego functions of self observation so know we have to tame the ego at least

I have experienced many altered states of consciousness... but never "beyond" the ego. I do not consider "ego transcendence" to be anything more than self-mastery, involving acceptance and embrace of ego as opposed to circumvention of it.

At the beginning, it can, depending on circumstances, be useful to believe in a higher power... but if they are told this their pride will be hurt by the "at first" part so it rarely works well; although sometimes like democracy it is the least worst system of all...

nothing is sacred, the deconstructing and letting-be of all things, clarity of sight, the realization of no-thing(s), Nothing

Re: Total surrender

The most basic need of all human beings is the need to surrender one's life to God. To give up one's own will to the divine Will. To find the guidance of God within one's own heart. Surrender is the Golden Key that unlocks the door to spiritual living. Surrender is the gateway to the Kingdom of God. Surrender is the path to group living, group life, and true brotherhood. For when God's Will is done in one's life, then that life is transformed forever, and cannot remain in the limited, selfish state that it was. The body, emotions, and mind are liberated from the chains of human living.

Now many people do not see the significance of this. They look at the vast literature that exists today regarding human spiritual development, and see very little that points to surrender as a spiritual activity. Or perhaps it is considered a part of walking the "Way of the Cross" — but in this, the idea seems to be that it is the ego that does the walking, that God just waits for each human being to reach some enlightened state, and only after that time will God communicate anything pertinent. God is seen as approachable only at the end of the path to divinity, and not the very beginning. But "He in whom we live and move and have our being" is as available to the lowest as to the highest.

Most people who are interested in their own spiritual development see other factors that they consider of more significance than surrender, such as meditation, or the practice of the methods and techniques of their own particular school or organization. They have books, written by divinely guided individuals, which proclaim that following certain practices is the wisest path for the human being in order to reach Light, Life, and Love.

Now in some cases, the teachings have, over the ages, been distorted such that all mention of the Golden Key of surrender has been deleted. Yet there are certainly many valid teachings that speak of meditation. What needs to be understood is that all such practices are in fact intermediary in nature. As long as meditation is done by the self, then the results can only be as good as a fallen, illusory self can make them. As long as mental control is accomplished by a self, then the results are limited by the illusions and distortions that the mind suffers under. If, then, an ego contemplates on Love, then the contemplation is necessarily restricted to the type of love that an ego understands. And this love of an ego is not divine Love. If, then, a mind concentrates its energies upon Reality, then the concentration is only as strong as the personal mind can create. And there is no concentration of the forces of an illusory mind that will succeed in making any difference to the world of Reality and Truth.

Yes, meditation has eventually brought good results. In ages past, long meditation, practiced for decades in silence and retreat has produced the occasional illumined Saint. We might ask ourselves two things about this. First, where on earth will we find any silence and retreat in order to practice meditation as has been advised for human beings down the ages? From Times Square in New York to the furthest reaches of the Himalayas, the planet has been occupied by human beings, and they have taken up residence everywhere. The Saints went out into the lonely wilderness of forest and desert to contemplate Reality and Truth, but there is no longer such wilderness today.

In addition, where will we find the decades to meditate in order to achieve liberation? In this modern age of information and interconnectivity, we are all swept up in the human activities of this planet. We have been given a relatively brief space of time to act and to work before the profound changes that are coming to this planet take place. There are, I submit to you, no longer decades of time for any leisurely meditation, study, or pursuit of philosophy. There is only time for action. The Buddha likened human life to a house that was on fire. The only reasonable course of action, is to seek to escape from the house immediately. Likewise, we need to escape from the house of ego that we live in immediately, through surrender. But people insist on taking their leisurely time for study, for classes, for workshops, for research, for meditation practices, and for all manner of activity that is not directly pertinent to simply surrendering to God. In this, they continue to chain themselves to human life and limitations.

Second, we need to recognize that the Aquarian Age is upon us, here and now. I do not speak of any astrological locations of the stars, but of the movement of cosmic energies that produce the ending of one age and the beginning of another. In this Aquarian age, new methods are necessary. All the old preliminary practices of concentrating the mind, of practicing purity, of building in virtues, etc. are dispensed with. People are now offered the opportunity of surrendering to God, not in some distant time in which they have developed some masterful capacities or supernatural powers, but in the here and now, while they are still fallible, limited, human beings. The gateway to the Kingdom of God is wide open like it has never been before, but the distortions of the world, the glamor of human desires, the illusions of the human mind, and the general confusion in which human beings live conspire to keep people away.

In opposition to the many conventional and technical paths of spiritual development and mind control that we have considered thus far, we have the other end of the spectrum, in which the constant emphasis of the teachings is to "let go and let God," In much of the new age community, the need to seek for God and God's desire is clearly seen. We have many authors, for example, who are busy publishing their conversations with God, their talks with God, and all manner of transmissions, supposedly from the divine Sphere, usually regarding the most mundane matters. In examining these efforts it is all too often discovered that they are an attempt to "let God" do all the things that the human wants to do. The human will is not really being replaced by the divine Will, and this replacement is the fundamental reversal that is necessary for surrender to have occurred. And when God's Will does indeed supersede the little human will, there is no desire to pronounce that fact to the universe. Those who know, pray in the silence of their closet, and do not shout the teachings from the housetops. The public claims that so many people supposedly in touch with God make are, as always, a sure sign of falsehood.

Thus people imagine that surrender is not necessary; that they can get to God, Reality and Life some other way. Yet, we have been told that we need to seek the "Kingdom of God." If we are going to enter that Kingdom, we will not do so as egos, by any power of the personal will, or by any action of the self. We can only enter by God's Grace, given in Love, to those who have renounced the self.

Then there are people who read about God, Truth, and Life, and who understand its significance, but then fail to apply that knowledge. There are a host of reasons why this is so. People may have read that they should surrender their lives to God, to trust that God will provide for them, and that God should be the master of their lives. And they say to themselves, "Oh how wise and wonderful there ideas are! They are indeed Truth." They become filled with thoughts about surrender, about God, about service, and about Truth. They create castles in their minds, big thought forms of intricate complexity. Or perhaps they fill the thoughts with their personal feelings, and may think: "It is so wonderful to feel God's Love." But people stop with these thoughts and feelings and do not really move beyond them. People substitute the thought for the reality and the feeling for the reality, and do not even see that they have stopped. They think, "How wise!" but do not see how that wisdom could apply to their own condition — that they really do need to surrender. They think, "How true!" but do not see where they continue to apply falsehood to their actions. They say, "I feel so full of love!" but that love never turns to an urge to sacrifice themselves for others, and thus it remains a hopeful vision, and not a reality. They say, "This is true." but do not apply the Truth of following God to their lives, and thus remain shut off from Reality. For when Truth is seen, then brotherhood prevails.

People, therefore, are usually hypocrites, following imitation spirituality, for it suits their purposes. This is because real spirituality demands change at a level that most people have no experience in changing, or any real desire to change. People are used to getting new ideas, playing with new thought forms, being thrilled by new feelings. But people are not used to modifying their fundamental condition. They do not even know that there is a fundamental condition to change. They do not even see that there is anything to modify. They believe that their sense of self will always remain the way it is, that their relationship to the world will always be as it is, that their urge to act, to grow, to think, to feel, to learn, and to expand are immutable laws of the universe. They think that the self always grows. They believe that they are here on this planet to be happy. And they believe that they are always to be in charge of the destiny of their lives. But the self — the personality — only "grows" at the expense of the inner Spirit, the God within. And "happiness" is only evidence of a successful personality, not a soul that is inspired by the divine. And as long as we are in charge of our own destiny, then we are surely trapped in the illusion. For there is no destiny for the self except death — either the death of the body and the mind at the end of the personal cycle of incarnation, or the death of the ego on the cross, at the end of the greater soul cycle. Seeking to do anything else for the self is to seek to build only within the illusion of this fallen Universe, and is doomed to eventual failure.

Then there are those who hear the words of sacrifice and surrender, and they feel in their hearts that they already understand, they already know, and they have already done it all. "I know what you mean," they say, "I feel that surrender. I feel that love. I sense the spirit within me and follow it to the best of my ability." And in this knowing in their minds, in this conviction, they trap themselves once more. For no one can move forward if they believe that they have already completely surrendered. They are trapped in the illusion of their success. And since they live in their minds, their minds create those conditions that give them evidence of their success. They see around them reasons to believe that they have sacrificed, reasons that they are loving, reasons that they are in communion with God. These people are the most difficult to deal with, for like fanatics they will cling to their convictions beyond all reason. But one thing they do not really do, and that is to unselfishly sacrifice themselves for others, for the group, and for God. Yet even here they will see evidence that gives them conviction of their success. The evidence that they see convinces them that they themselves are wonderful. That they are very good disciples, excellent servers, and profoundly in communion with God. And this reveals the lie in their claims, for to the one who really knows God, the self is always evil; it has no redeeming features and is best set aside. For the self is the product of our separateness from God. When God is seen, the self will no longer exist. And thus the true knower of God is filled with humility, and often has a painful knowledge of the imperfections of his own personal nature.

When we hear about the need to surrender, to sacrifice, to trust God and God's wisdom, people have yet another barrier, and this is that they imagine that these things are immensely difficult. They imagine to themselves that only saints surrender, that only high initiates are capable of sacrifice, that only those who go to Masterhood tread the Way of the Cross, and that trusting God is something that comes from an unimaginable space in divine awareness and has nothing to do with the self. But this is yet another veil of the illusion. For people imagine that surrender is a matter of doing something. But in truth, surrender is a matter of stopping doing something - stopping the ego, once and for all.

People, of course, endlessly imagine that spirituality is a process of continuing to do the types of things that the ego has always done before. That the ego should search, study, learn, grow, and in that growth, grow so big that it can eventually "surrender." But surrender is not about a big ego, it is not about growth. Surrender gains nothing for the evolution of the ego within the fallen Universe — and that is its whole point. Since the ego has never succeeded in reaching Reality by its own efforts, by following its own will, it is high time that the ego stopped trying to do this, and turned to God instead. People incarnate a thousand lifetimes expecting success out of the efforts of the ego, and fail every time. Every last time, they have met death. This lifetime, too, they will meet death. But people still continue to seek spiritual growth through the actions of the ego. The only real way out is surrender.

People usually want God to be the servant of their own will. They pray, "Oh God, could you please send me money, please send me love, and make my enemies crumble to dust" etc. in endless fashion. They want God to act in order to fulfill the desires of the human being. They may dress it up in pretty words, but really they hope and expect that God will agree with their every wish. God is to be man's slave. But surrender is about reducing the ego to be a servant of God's Will. It is simply the reversal of the usual scheme of things envisioned by those who pray. We pray, then, not to ask God to do things for us, but to find out what we need to do for God. We pray to discover God's purpose at any given time. And when we sense that purpose, we act to fulfill it, no matter how unpleasant, contradictory, or humiliating that action may be in the light of human reason and common sense. Thus our prayer is often for the purpose of making life more difficult for us, not less. We seek God's Will, and since God is no respecter of persons, God may ask us to fail. And what does this failure mean? It means that the ego, the self, has failed. The ego, then, has become smaller, not larger. And since the reduction of the self to nothing is a part of the divine Plan, we rejoice in that failure, and work to achieve it. And very few people in this world understand that working out God's Will is not a matter of becoming successful, superhuman, and all-powerful. Quite the opposite.

So is surrender really that difficult? People pray to direct God to do their bidding at every moment of the day. They have no problem with commanding infinite Power, Will, and Purpose to their own selfish bidding — what an amazing feat! So what is the problem with doing the reverse, to ask God, in complete humility, what God wants, and to joyously work to destroy one's personal goals and accomplishments when the divine Will calls for it? Ah, but I forget: people have desires that they can't give up. They want what they want when they want it, and do not care if God wants something different. So their so-called "love of God" and their "search for Truth" crashes upon the rock of ego. People then continue to search for their own happiness and their own truth, for doing anything otherwise would mean that they might have to give up their cherished desires, beliefs, and goals. But all these will end at death. Desires will end, beliefs will turn to dust, and goals will remain unfulfilled. Thus the wise seek ego-death, so that their own goals are replaced by God's goals and their own desires are replaced by God's Will. They surrender. In that surrendering, they lose their urge to seek for self - though self certainly continues to exist for them in this fallen Universe. They seek for God instead, and in so seeking, open the doorway to the divine, to Light, and to Life.

One of the desires that most people can't give up is often "helping others." That is, they cannot give up tending to the ailments and problems of a loved one. They cannot give up the teaching that they are doing for their students. They cannot give up the healing that they are offering through their hands. They cannot give up helping other people to meditate and grow. They cannot give up attempting to bring peace and love to this sorry planet. They cannot give up following the helpful teachings that they cherish. But as long as we live outside of God, within our little egos, we cannot really know God's Will in all these matters. We cannot know God's wishes or thoughts, nor really obtain God's help and assistance. For as long we we work for self, for the desires of self, no matter how noble and virtuous, we are still working for self, and not for God. When we have surrendered, and we are then working in God's camp, on God's ground, in God's battle, for God's glory, we will be given our assignments as to our work in this world. That may mean that our service may change. Or it may mean that it all must be given up. The wise soul will understand that God does indeed know best what we should do. For as long as we cling to the fiction that we know better than God what to do, we remain trapped in self. We thus build the bars of our prison with our good intensions, our virtues, and our love.

Another desire that people can't give up is to be "loving." They think that love is the greatest force in the universe — I tell you in all sincerity that it is not. Truth is the greatest force in this fallen Universe and is infinitely more powerful than love. People seek to love and think that if they love, that they are "good." People seek to love and enjoy the sensation of human love — whether it is as the result of personal pleasure in a relationship or in the process of giving altruistic service to humanity. But love that arises from the actions of self is selfish love. No selfish love can endure when the divine Will is realized in one's heart. Then personal love dies like a branch that has been cut off from a tree. It withers and dies and becomes dead. For in surrender we are willing to give up all that we love, for that love is of self, and we reject self completely. In surrendering, we accept the fact of something greater than love — we accept the Truth that God is the only source of good in our lives. We accept the Truth that following God's Will is the only purpose that humans should possess. We accept the Truth that the only way to freedom for ourselves and for all humanity is to live in God's Grace.

Yet another desire that people can't give up is to follow the direction of their own minds. This is indeed the most fundamental trap of human egotism, and the very thing that makes surrender difficult to do for so many people. For they cannot imagine any condition in which their own mind is not in charge of what they shall do, what they shall speak, and how they will act. This is also the fundamental reason why people cling to the path of meditation, for doing the meditation is their own decision. But God has no need to meditate, and when God works through us, no meditation is needed. This is also the fundamental reason why people imagine that they have surrendered when they have not truly surrendered, for in their experience, everything that the mind thinks is the truth, when in fact everything that the mind thinks is a lie. This is also the fundamental reason why people cling to their personal work, their personal service, and their personal love, for it is the desire of their minds to continue being attached to the world around them and its purposes. But those purposes, however noble, are still related to a world and a universe that is wholly illusory and unreal. Whereas our purpose should be solely to seek Reality such that we may be the vessel for the divine Life, and not lost in the wilderness of human living any longer.

Everyone can choose to surrender. While it means the sacrifice of our desires, it also means that we are liberated from them. We are no longer controlled by our emotional needs, our human frailties, and our personal folly. We can see that they are just a part of the temporary illusion, and move on to the divine Universe and the divine Life. We are no longer so trapped in this world of illusion and suffering, but are travelling on a bridge that leads from this fallen, crazy realm to a divine world of endless Peace and Joy. We can choose surrender, and not just think about choosing, but really choose it. We can choose surrender, and not vainly imagine that we have already surrendered until that day arrives in which we have forgotten ourselves, our goals, and our own individual purpose in sacrifice to God. We can choose surrender, and know that it is really the only way out of this hell-realm of pain and suffering. We can choose surrender, and know in our hearts that it is the right thing to do, no matter how the ego screams in frustration and pain. We can choose surrender, and not be deterred as though it is some great task for the ego to accomplish. We can choose surrender, and in earnest humility, tell God that we give up the self and its goals forever. We can choose surrender. Now.

10 (edited by Adama 2007-03-25 05:39:14)

Re: Total surrender

I think we can surrender to what we truly are, that means when we feel really ourselves.
We all experience it when we fall in love, but after a few moments we stop surrendering by giving our thoughts and concerns about our fears of losing that feeling.
And the most important thing nobody ever told us when we fall in love is that we are actually experiencing our true self, and it doesn't depend on our lover's feeling!
Tell that to your children and the face of this world will change!
Who can stop people from falling in love?
The funny thing about this world we(them?) are building, is that getting people in hard situations make them more open to fall in love!
Just like when you were a kid in classromm laughing and having the best time because you were not allowed to laugh...
This world want us to forget love and that open us to fall in love, because we are starving for it and we are emotionally fragiles:)