Topic: Got throwin off the SOTT forum...

I got thrown off the SOTT forum a few days ago. Bacially I instigated a discussion with one of the Sign's of the Time team.
  I visited them a few years ago in France and hung out a few days with them. I've never felt right about the interaction so I spoke up about it after years of not contacting them. It didn't go well...
  I find the Cassiopaean material to be very good stuff, but I really think that the folks have been lead astray over the past few years. They are really into Fourth Way suff, the Gurdjieff scene. It makes them very cold, harsh, overly-intellectual, and way too calculated...
  I don't know if anyone on this forum follows Gurdjieff's teachings, but I really can't quite grasp how one can work thier way out of the thought loop that it works one into. All my thoughs are programs, and everything is mechanical, I am asleep. The only way I can awaken is if I have other people, who I barley know, insult me and try to break down my 'self importance' till I am a hollow shell of an individual...it's really quite mad...in so many many ways.
  It is the inevitable fate of most channeled material. Eventually the channel is either removed (like in the case of the Ra material.) or the channel goes slowly mad.
  Oh well. So goes life...

Re: Got throwin off the SOTT forum...

I cannot comment on the events that led to you getting booted, but I do agree with your general assessment of Fourth Way. Gurdjieff's teachings were based on "fragments of an unknown teaching" and compared to the Gnosis books by Boris Mouravieff they are incomplete and therefore dangerously limiting if used as a roof rather than foundation of one's ideology.

Self-remembering and not-doing are important skills to practice, no doubt about that. But there are also the higher-level skills of transmuting negative into positive emotions, using both the head and the heart (reason and intuition) simultaneously, and "thinking fourth density." These latter skills were gradually phased out of the QFG ideology starting late 2002. Why? Because whereas not-doing and self-remembering are purely intellectual exercises that even the coldest and most bitter individuals can successfully practice, those higher-level skills Mouravieff and the Cassiopaeans emphasized demand instead an honest sacrifice of one's ego insecurities and willful striving to use one's higher emotional center -- and not everyone is willing to do that, least of all those who pride themselves on shocking their systems with various means of emotional self-flagellation. It is one thing to pick the weeds and till the soil... another to plant seeds and water them under good sunlight. Fourth Way is obsessed with weeding and tilling, and in the end its most devout followers have nothing to show but an immaculate but barren field.

Without those higher-level skills, one becomes afflicted with anorexia of the spirit, a refusal to partake of the impulses of the higher centers. The heart atrophies and the ego becomes increasingly adept at projecting for itself and upon others just as deluded the illusion of self-mastery. But really it is the ego's mastery over its environment. That is why "not-doing" can easily be twisted into being poised, restrained, and cunning when attacking or feeding out of ego so as to not do anything overtly incriminating. It is why "thinking with a hammer" degrades into "rationalizing with a hammer," and why "colinearity" has turned into "enforced group consensus."

It's sad to watch in action, but that's what happens when spirit loses out to ego, when the system of truth is replaced by its simulacrum. There is an implosive energy there like a black hole, and those in its grip are tested on whether the impulse of their discernment and spirit is stronger or weaker than the pull of that dark star. I say congratulations to all who see and make it out.

Acquiring fringe knowledge is like digging for diamonds in a mine field.

Re: Got throwin off the SOTT forum...

Montalk,

  Very nicely put. So nicely put that it is way to late in the evening to comment more on it, other than I intend to savor the ritchness of your written words when tomorrow and ponder them. It is, indeed everything I was thinking about the interaction, yet were unable to discern the dynamics of the interaction enough to put them into words.
  Thanks for your comments and I look foward to seeing them in another light come the morning....

Re: Got throwin off the SOTT forum...

"...immaculate but barren field."

Now THAT'S putting it in a nutshell.

The process of satisfying the ego's need to "be right" while keeping it from getting anything real done... is that simile yours, M?   I love it.

Love is the law, love under will.
   
     Zejith Themis
      .:420-510:.
    FIAT IUSTITIA
    RUAT COELUM

Re: Got throwin off the SOTT forum...

Tom ( Montalk)  I just have to say here how much I thoroughly appreciate your insight.  Not just on this topic but everywhere you post.   I feel very fortunate to be a part of this forum and I probably don’t express that as often as I should but after reading your response to that post I just felt compelled to say thank you.  For your posts…and for creating this virtual place.

I’m an old man by most of your (all the folks here) standards……how irrelevant is that ??   Completely I think.  The fact that I’m one the old people here means is that I have more mistakes under my belt to learn from.  Many of you younger folks didn’t need the mistakes that I’ve made to learn from.  Cudos to you.

Tom, your insight inspires me.  Your kindness humbles me. 

Thanks again.

Winston

DOWN WITH BIG BROTHER

Re: Got throwin off the SOTT forum...

And here's a thank you from me, Tom.
Your insights and your even handed moderation of this forum have
made it a meeting place for what I consider some of the most important
minds here on the planet.  There is no other place like it.  The thoughts
and ideas presented here give me hope that some of the human race
can find a way out of this hall of mirrors.
TP

Re: Got throwin off the SOTT forum...

Tom Paine,

It figures it would be another "old fart" who would chime in first on that post.  lol  I've always enjoyed your humor and feedback as well.   The "hall of mirrors" is probably the best way that I have heard this life experience in 3 words described.  Thanks.  It's not always easy and it's not always fun....but it's always interesting and worth a big old scratch to the head eh?

I find that the more I "know" the less I understand.  Does that ring true to you?

Cheers!

Winston

DOWN WITH BIG BROTHER

Re: Got throwin off the SOTT forum...

Thanks, guess I was just saying what was on your mind. I have had since 2003 to ponder these same issues. Putting the problems into words is difficult because they are exceedingly subtle. They have to be subtle in order to slip past so many intellectuals for so long. That's why you will first detect these intuitively, because intuition operates at a higher level than intellect. It flies beneath the radar of those who lack intuition. The problem isn't intellect itself so much as the intellect working on behalf of group consensus, political correctness, ego, academic authority, social/religious/political programming, and so on. Right now I am using intellect to analyze this problem, but it's working on behalf of intuition and experience.

ZT, yes that was a metaphor that came to my mind a while back when thinking about why Fourth Way alone seems to lack something. Originally wrote about it here: http://montalk.net/notes/entelechy

Also said this in my Methods of Deception article:

The right method for the wrong person can give detrimental results. For example, the Fourth Way methodology aims to grow souls within those who have none; if people who need soul awakening rather than soul growth limit themselves to such a system, they will assume they are less than they truly are and spiritually suffocate. By knowing yourself, you will know what is right for you.

What I meant there is that those who wholly adopt the Fourth Way methodology, specifically by entering a school, are required to recognize themselves as reaction machines who have the potential to "one day" develop consciousness, freewill, and a soul -- to recognize themselves as being either of man number 1, 2, or 3. What happens if man number 4 mistakenly joins a Fourth Way school? Or someone who in their past lives was man 4 or 5, and now merely needs reactivation and reinforcement of those already-developed faculties? Then it would be an affront to all other initiates and the elder teachers in the school for him, as an initiate, to express this recognition outwardly. Therefore he will be forcefully squeezed downwards into the highest "acceptable" and "politically correct" level achievable as an initiate, which is man number 3: the intellectual man. For him to defend his own self-knowledge would invite condemnation and accusations that he is merely dreaming that he has freewill, that he is deluding himself. And so it goes that the very system that claims to elevate him paradoxically stunts his development.

Another thing you may have noticed is that "external considering" can easily become "conformity" when someone makes sure never to contradict group consensus or the opinions of authority to avoid rocking the boat, which would be "inconsiderate." I could go on, but you guys get the point. Different strokes for different folks, haha. Like GreyCat says, "Oh well. So goes life..."

Acquiring fringe knowledge is like digging for diamonds in a mine field.

Re: Got throwin off the SOTT forum...

Before joining Noble Realms, I joined the SOTT forum. Someone had posted a thread, inquiring on the subject of Reptilians. I promptly posted a link to the David Icke- Credo Mutwa video interview. Soon afterward, the thread was attacked with people calling David Icke Cointelpro, an organic portal, and also attacking me, calling me misinformed and a noise generator. I defended myself by stating that I was replying to the inquiry, because I had recently become interested in the subject myself, going on to say that I never claimed to believe in or support the work of David Icke. Continuing their attacks, they all replied the same: "go read the C material before posting here, etc." After that, I decided to leave, and I found my way here. At that point, I knew nothing of the C material, because I found Signs of the Times through a web search, and knew nothing of the Cassiopean sister site. They're certainly not interested in open-minded discussion. If you don’t believe in or question the Cassiopaean teachings, you’re their enemy, an organic portal.

"There cannot be progress without expression. There cannot be expression without separation. There cannot be separation without progress."-Ouroboros

Re: Got throwin off the SOTT forum...

With all these other thanks to Tom and Noble Realms, I decided to move my post from another section to here.  I thought it would fit, but I apologize if anyone here doesn't think that to be the case.
http://forum.noblerealms.org/viewtopic. … 327#p53327

I just wanted to say to you all, especially Tom, Carissa, Jennifer, and zenden (sorry, I don't know you by name yet; not that I've been formally introduced or otherwise introduced to you or the aformention guy(s) and gals;  and hope I haven't stepped on any toes by calling them by name) that you guys are the reason I continue to come here, which is usually on a daily basis, except for when I'm having to work long hours and am just too pooped to even get on the computer.  Druid is another one I always look forward to seeing on here.  Oh, and Blue too! S/he always makes me smile! There are others too, and I apologize that your names didn't come to mind as I typed this.  Wait! I can't believe I forgot Pictus!  And feritciva, too!  You guys are awesome too, and maybe one day I can learn your names too, if it suits you.

     Anyway, thank you so much for all the great insights, they've helped me more than you could ever know.  Even though I don't know any of you personally, (and even thought I rarely post), just knowing that I can come here to Noble Realms  gives me a piece of mind you wouldn't believe.  Or maybe you would, lol smile  See, I have many friends here where I live, (even after cutting ties with the ones I knew would be detrimental to my personal well-being and overall health), but there's not one of them that are even on the same wavelength I consider my self to be, and it is uplifting, to say the least, that I can come here, whether I choose to participate or not, because I feel this sense of community here among people like me, like us, really, that I don't have here in my everyday "real world" life.  I hope all this didn't sound too corny, as I can be a complete cornball at times big_smile (Hey, there's nothin' wrong with that! lol)  But thank you, all of you, except all those random naysayers (Like that starcat chick that always seemed to be trying to instigate crap with Carissa, or that one guy that was talking smack about Tom, what jerks!) that post here from time to time, but whateva!

     P.S. If I see that no one has noticed this, then I may just move the post to the General Discussion Board or something.  (If that's ok with you guys of course)

     Hope you all are well smile  -Nikki (But you can call me nixie if you want; my 2 little cousins call me nixie because they can't pronounce Nikki, and I just think it's the cutest thing ever!  I looked it up and nixies were mythylogical Scandanavian water nymphs, which I thought was pretty cool, becuase I'm a BIG-TIME water chica big_smile)

     Later guys, hopefully in time I will be able to contribute more to Noble Realms, because just feel like a big consumer of you guy's gal's info, with nothing much to contribute except random chat; not a good feeling sad And yes, I will take some cheese with that whine (wine)! lol

"I (may) not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it."
        -Voltaire

Re: Got throwin off the SOTT forum...

It seems that Laura Knight-Jadczyk has started a flame war on the SOTT forum about me.
  It's so sad to see the perspective of these people. They are incredibly defensive and use semantics like ammunition. It doesn't matter if the point is far from accurate, just as long as there is a retort to keep one on the defensive. That way no information is shared, and it becomes an empty worded debate.
  Heres what the Wikipedia has to say about the Fouth Way:
  "Gurdjieff's theoretical picture of the human organism boils down to a tripartite model consisting of three "centers": the moving, the intellectual, and the emotional. Becoming a genuine person involves balancing the three centers and becoming capable of conscious labor and intentional suffering."

   It was exactly my point from the very beginning. Joe and Laura from SOTT are accusing me of having an 'overactive movement center'. That my movement center saps energy from my intellectual and emotional centers. Its funny, because that is exactly what I have been suggesting of THEM. After spending three days with them and getting a sense of how they go about thier lives, I could see that thier intellectual centers were on overdrive, sapping thier emotions and vitality.
  Which consequently was why I was in France. Laura and I had been in contact through email and I mentioned that I could maybe help her with her current physical state, which she said was deteriorating rapidly. Since I'm a circus artist, I know a little bit about how to keep the body functioning at optimal level. But I'll get to that later.
I flew from copenhagen to toulouse to spend the weekend at thier chateau. After a few days I assesed that there was little I could tell her to help as her condition was a product of very poor lifestyle choices. There is no magic pill to loosing weight and being more active.


  As quoted from above, becoming a genuine person involves BALANCING the three centers.
  May I also add that I choose my current profession because I could spend my days reading, contemplating, and meditating and my evenings performing. Circus skills, though painfully hard to develop allow me to balance my day between movement and thought.
  It seems that Laura has lumped me in Vincent Bridges as someone out to get her.
  The same for Sara Vitale.
  And in the same breath she accussed me of I joke I made about the Irish as being racist, she accuses me that my great grandmother who was a jewish Gypsy, makes me of Gypsy stock. The Cassiopaeans say that gypsy's are slaves of 4D STS.
So now I am some robotoid OP. A truly hyporcitical statement. I'm a racist because of a joke about the Irish circus scene is still cotton candy and elephant dung and she can basically say that an entire culture is an evil slave race of minions.
 
  Laura has this quote on all her posts:
"When a man knows he is to be hanged in a fortnight it concentrates his mind wonderfully.  Samuel Johnson"

  Indeed, I agree wholeheartedly.
  Joe mocked my profession as if it was some useless masturbation of ones ego. What it DOES do for me is make death a constant reality and reminder of my own mortality. I make a living where if I an not totally invested in what I am doing, then I fall and die. Every time I go on stage, I risk my life. My hands are the only thing between me and the floor. And it's a long way down.
  And yes, Laura, it concentractes the mind wonderfully.
  In fact, if one were to have that sort of will, and then strive to understand key concepts of existence, and be dilligent and honest with ones lifestyle, then who KNOWS what they could obtain.
  I'm not saying I'm perfect. In fact, this whole post makes me feel queasy with ego ridden doubt from both parties involved.
  I just find it sad that people of intellectual bent can't find some common ground with people of physical capacities. It can be just as robotic to regurgitate facts as it can be to prance around on stage.
It keeps everyone fragmented.
  Gurdjieff was a fraud. He was the first of the New Age fools. Yes, there is some truth to what he says because it is inherent in many other philosophies. But to claim that theres some easy route, a way to simplify soul searching, well, thats sort of like the fast food of the spiritual world.
 
 
  I appreciate your words Montalk. They are written with a finese that I lack with words.
  I have always acknowledged how my wisdom lies less with writing, and more with doing. But I am certain that each of us, no matter where thier talents lie, has the capacity to understand truth if they are willing to see thier strengths and weaknesses and work with them accordingly. That is balance...

Re: Got throwin off the SOTT forum...

GreyCat--thanks for this topic.  I'll bet one of the SOTT people is lurking here
to get our reaction.  They can have their Gurdjieff and all sit and spin about it.
We've got other things to do, eh?

Winston--Hail fellow well met!  I echo your thoughts on how some of the
people here don't have to make the mistakes we made...(the punks!)

TP

Re: Got throwin off the SOTT forum...

TP

I'm one of those kind of people who needs to get hit over the head with a 2x4 in order to understand what a headache feels like.  lol  I feel like Carlos Castenada quite a bit.....it's right there in front of me but I prevent myself from seeing due to preconceived notions.  I am getting much better though....

Can you relate?

Cheers!

Winston

DOWN WITH BIG BROTHER

14 (edited by lala 2007-02-27 19:34:05)

Re: Got throwin off the SOTT forum...

GreyCat wrote:

started a flame war on the SOTT forum about me.
  It's so sad to see the perspective of these people. They are incredibly defensive and use semantics like ammunition. It doesn't matter if the point is far from accurate, just as long as there is a retort to keep one on the defensive. That way no information is shared, and it becomes an empty worded debate.

Hmmm... this thread reignited a "repressed memory" that  is weird, but believe it or not, even though I had never read the SOTT site or archives or channels until a few months ago when I found this montalk site and it referred to the C's and such... I have to tell you folks that I was trashed on the SOTT site because I was a "friend" of this guy who was totally enthralled with their site and the channellers and he got me to do some channelling experiements with him on a ouija board (which I now see was a totally stupid thing for me to have done because this person turned out to be an unethical remote viewer/influencer and has really bad bondaries both physical and non-physical, but I didn't "get" it at the time. I thought that he was a fellow spiritual adventurer) Anyway, I remember that he reported our "channelling" findings to their group and he actually told them my real full name and the city that I lived in. They evidently mocked him and viciously made fun of me, even though I'd never met any of them or even written to their forum or anything. Go figure. I didn't pay much attention to it at the time because I didn't even really know what this guy was talking about or who the people were and they were not important in any manner to my life at the time. So, I guess I can join the club of people who were trashed. But one thing in LKJ defense, is that this guy who set me up with them is really unethical, does have some sort of STS agenda which he is unaware of in a shizophrenic kind of way, so they were right in shutting him down in trying to infilitrate their group, possibly also on the non-physical planes, too. I was too stupid at the time to take this type of thing seriously, even though people like him using my psi abilities for their own selfish agendas has been an ongoing theme. Also people like him will somehow distort my connection to anything that might advance me in connecting to my own light and soul power.  I think that there are so many really weird and unclear people that try and  mess with people bringing in cosmic energies that it does create a certain type of paranoia in people doing advanced consciousness work, and that sometimes that paranoia is valid, and sometimes it is just bizarre paranoia. I really question the whole "channelling" discarnate beings and aliens thing, because it seems like even though the channel's first instincts to channel are good and clear and toward the light and all of that: something weird happens to people who let disembodied beings use their bodies. I don't know if people can be channels for that long without having some sort of major overload of the human nervous system. Also, unless a person is constantly purifying and distilling their psi energies, it can allow all kinds of other weird influences to get in. That has been my experience, anyway. This incident ocurred, I think I remember, over five years ago, so if it wasn't the SOTT site, it was whatever they had for the Casseopean channel forum before that.-lala

don't judge a book by its name

Re: Got throwin off the SOTT forum...

lala wrote:

But one thing in LKJ defense, is that this guy who set me up with them is really unethical, does have some sort of STS agenda which he is unaware of in a shizophrenic kind of way, so they were right in shutting him down in trying to infilitrate their group, possibly also on the non-physical planes, too.

   I don't know if people can be channels for that long without having some sort of major overload of the human nervous system. Also, unless a person is constantly purifying and distilling their psi energies, it can allow all kinds of other weird influences to get in. That has been my experience, anyway. This incident ocurred, I think I remember, over five years ago, so if it wasn't the SOTT site, it was whatever they had for the Casseopean channel forum before that.-lala

Honestly, I have alot respect for LKJ. I think the Cassiopaean Material is very thought compelling. It would be foolish for me to despise her, or think her a fraud as alot of the information she has published leg directly to the experiences I have had with hyperdimensional realities.
But the philosophy with which she has latched onto is an incomplete one. There is very little mention of it by the beings that she channeled. As montalk mentioned, use the fourth way as a foundation and you are bound to end up cold, analytical, and overly intellectual.
 
 
  Your second point I also agree with and have stated it several times in personal emails. Channels don't last long. They get shut down by STS forces. This is an information war. The more we know, the more we can counter the Lizards influences. So they have to corrupt the channel till it either checks out, or the transmition becomes incomplete.
 
  I tried the same thing. I worked with a ouiji board for a while. All I got were some nasty nasty spirit attachments. You won't catch me sticking my neck out in the the other world. It takes a long time of fiddling the dial before you get the right transmition.
  The fact of the matter is that 6D STO will transmit to anyone who asks, truly ask. And you will recieve that which you are ready to recieve. You can see thier inspiration everywhere.