• Registered: 2005-02-08

Re: The necessity of opposing forces

derek wrote:

By showing true compassion to evil you are endangering yourself and opening your self up to spiritual "assassination" and suffering. Please take my word for it, as some of you have probably experienced, evil does not truthfully respond to true love (it may feign to acheive an alterior motive), it often times sees it as an opening for more exploitation!

You may be correct from your experiences and point of view, but I'm seeing a bit more than that.

"Evil" can only exploit you IF you allow it to. If your intuition and discernment are sufficiently elevated, you can almost always "smell out" attempts to exploit you when you encounter them.

Besides, my interactions with "evil" have revealed to me that the infliction of harm is completely secondary to the primary goal of subverting that which is "good" into something that is a more accessible feeding medium. Usually this is accomplished by the creation of an inbalance, which is used to justify a pendelum-swing towards what is preceived as "good" but which in reality, only serves to continue what is usually an unnecessary cycle-conflict.

Once again, I return to the parable of turning your cheek when it's struck. By doing so, you are doing something which "evil" cannot counter - a refusal to feed into the energy cycle which generates the power they require. This allows you to remain outside of the conflict with your power and freewill intact.

What I've found is that entering into the predator/victim cycle is the real goal of STS, and it doesn't even matter what "side" you choose to be on, since the overall mission is the same - the creation of duality and conflict. Without your feeding into the cycle, STS must power BOTH sides of the conflict, and can't draw from YOU. This is inefficient at best, and completely disasterous to them if you refuse to play along.

-3G

62 Reply by Sowelu (edited by Sowelu 2006-12-28 20:52:13)

  • Registered: 2005-06-26

Re: The necessity of opposing forces

derek wrote:

By showing true compassion to evil you are endangering yourself and opening your self up to spiritual "assassination" and suffering.

The "doing" is inward, derek, not outward. And to clarify, even the idea of the other person constitutes "external". The whole point is that All is One. By choosing to "bring the battle home to self" you are acknowledging truth (there is only One, in myriad form) and seeking to unify with it through internal rectification, all by yourself. The other was merely a reflection pointing out what needs work within.

Any external efforting of the mentioned concepts would be a misunderstanding of the premise and misapplication of the basic principles described. A common error, causing unnecessary abuse to self and other alike.

The compassion is an energetic response at a felt level, for the inner realization of distortion that was seen manifest in another (or seen in self, for that matter). That inner realization comes about from "becoming the attacker" or "putting on" the energy of one who would cause harm and rectifying the misunderstanding of truth that makes such action seem valid. Keeping the entire "battle" internal. Think symbolic or archetypal.

It is not necessary to, and is even advisable not to, attempt to externally "apply" compassion to a person exhibiting a "dark" manifestation. That will only "grow" the distortion.

~Sowelu

"The most important decision you have to make is whether you live in a hostile or friendly universe."
~ Albert Einstein

The real voyage of discovery consists not in seeking new landscapes, but in having new eyes. ~Marcel Proust

The evolution of humanity is an evolution of the heart. The path is through the heart.
  • T-Ren
  • T-Ren
  • work in progress
  • Offline
  • From: Earth Lab
  • Registered: 2004-11-17

Re: The necessity of opposing forces

By showing true compassion to evil you are endangering yourself and opening your self up to spiritual "assassination" and suffering. Please take my word for it, as some of you have probably experienced, evil does not truthfully respond to true love (it may feign to acheive an alterior motive), it often times sees it as an opening for more exploitation!

Derek there is some truth to what you say. A young person (based upon time walking with alertness/ consciousness) definitely lacks a lot of skill/ resources that a person with a more mature walk MAY have. 

What I perceive to be the main fallacy of your comment is that truth is impartial and really, "true" agape love (as differentiated from the feelings for friend/significant others)is impartial because it does actions that benefit without expectation of return. If there is no expectation of return, it really does not matter whom you show your love to. You are not responsible for the reception of the love, just the doing.

Just my take.

Peace,
Teddy

"It means the Matrix can't tell you who you are" - Trinity
  • From: Vicenza, Italy
  • Registered: 2006-10-05

Re: The necessity of opposing forces

I beg to differ, Derek. Though I make distinction between true Compassion and pity.

The latter works as you have described, more or less. The former is quite another animal. Check My etymology/derivation of the words.

And Consider:

"...Pity not the fallen!  I never knew them.  I am not for them.  I console not:  I hate the consoled & the consoler."
[AL II;48]

And

"We have nothing with the outcast and the unfit:  let them die in their misery.  For they feel not.  Compassion is the vice of kings..."
[AL II;21]

In a view where all Experience is taken as a part of one's soul, Compassion is the only sentiment towards just about anything. It is "The vice of Kings", that is, of those who are enlightened. Pity, on the other hand implies separation. Com-passion = feeling together, as one.    Pity = pietas = dutiful conduct (towards Others)

Not an orthodox tracing of the terms, the dictionary gives 'em as synonyms... but I beg you consider this idea of distiction. Roll it around your tongue a bit, rinse and spit if necessary. I've found it a valid yardstick for now...

Love is the law, love under will.
   
     Zejith Themis
      .:420-510:.
    FIAT IUSTITIA
    RUAT COELUM

Zejith_Themis's Website

65 Reply by titmouse_ (edited by titmouse_ 2006-12-30 23:12:44)

  • From: Shores of Lake Titikaka
  • Registered: 2006-05-25

Re: The necessity of opposing forces

Excellent topic!  smile

Enjoy and appreciate the dance. No emptyness in the other is greater than the potential in yourself--same with love. Seek and you shall find; act and you shall attract. Knowing yourself is a dynamic process one can engage or deny--by the end you will be known unto yourself. Observe or engage--either is the means to the other.


"We are the symphony of the universe--love the dance"
~~carefulcarpenter

Fun fact: Great Tits are common in Europe

To know love is to know trust; to know oneself is to know truth
~~carefulcarpenter

1+1=1

66 Reply by derek (edited by derek 2007-01-02 21:14:31)

  • Registered: 2006-12-08

Re: The necessity of opposing forces

"3g wrote:

Once again, I return to the parable of turning your cheek when it's struck. By doing so, you are doing something which "evil" cannot counter - a refusal to feed into the energy cycle which generates the power they require. This allows you to remain outside of the conflict with your power and freewill intact.

3g wrote:

"Evil" can only exploit you IF you allow it to.

Do you realize these are contradictory statements? By "turning the other cheek" you are allowing evil to exploit you by not attempting to defend yourself.

EDIT: i removed the story because i remember now that things actually happened differently than what originally came to memory.  I didnt exacltly "turn the other cheek," now that i remember correctly. Im sure if i was being mugged and i decided to "turn the other cheek," the mugger would continue to try and mug me, or if a rapist tried to rape me and i "turned the other cheek," he would continue to try and rape me!  My first statement still holds true.

67 Reply by Sowelu (edited by Sowelu 2007-01-01 21:01:26)

  • Registered: 2005-06-26

Re: The necessity of opposing forces

If a bully stands before you, you've already entered the fight, regardless of what you do externally. You've already attracted the event, it started before you saw him standing before you in a physical scenario. This is the idea. It begins inside, and if it exists long enough inside without your notice or inner action taken, it will manifest outwardly.

This outward event was a reflection of what already was your inner energetic reality. As per Gibbletronic's post, you were already in a situation of "feeding the situation", which is how it came to be in your experience. In some way you internally bully some part of yourself, with another part of yourself. Because you don't realize you do this, you attracted an external event to reveal this inner reality to you.

"Turning the other cheek" now that you're being faced with your reality, is actually a choice to ignore the truth being presented to you via the bully. The bully will become more obnoxious, then, to further reveal how you are not being true in the moment. The whole event is to put in your face a truth about your own inner energy dynamic of Self. So his increase of aggression was a match to your own false response to the truth before you. We can't fake peace, life won't buy it.

Unless, that is, you truly understand the significance of the moment (that it is a reflection of an existing truth about your relationship to yourself) and can find a true peace about it, in that now. If you truly grasped the truth of your predicament (what actually caused it to be in your experience) in that moment and resolved it to a peaceful stance within, you would have effectively withdrawn your energy from the encounter.

In which case the bully would stand down anyway, in some way, and you would have no need to take external action. Something would distract him, he'd crack a joke and move on, suddenly feel disoriented and withdraw, find another target, see you differently the moment you resonated with truth... the possibilities are endless for how it could end peacefully if you truly understood the moment's significance in the moment, and you would not need to externally respond at all.

If you could not do this internal reckoning in the moment, which most of us cannot, then any response that feels right in the moment is appropriate. After it's over, reviewing it or recapitulating, and learning what you need to learn from it, will resolve the distorted inner relationship to self, and no other bully scenarios will manifest from it thereafter.

"The most important decision you have to make is whether you live in a hostile or friendly universe."
~ Albert Einstein

The real voyage of discovery consists not in seeking new landscapes, but in having new eyes. ~Marcel Proust

The evolution of humanity is an evolution of the heart. The path is through the heart.
  • From: Denver
  • Registered: 2005-08-02

Re: The necessity of opposing forces

In addition to http://forum.noblerealms.org/img/avatars/522.gif‘s #67:


http://forum.noblerealms.org/viewtopic.php?id=2158   #2

_____________________________
In the context of the conversation they were having, Carlos Castenada asked
Juan Matus:

What if there was a sniper in the hills waiting to kill you?

Juan replied:

I wouldn't be there.
____________________________

11   23   11
  • Blue
  • Thank you Tom
  • Offline
  • From: The bottom of my heart
  • Registered: 2006-07-10

Re: The necessity of opposing forces

That's an excellent explanation of the dynamics of 'turn the other cheek', Sowelu.

It would be nice to be able to have such calm clarity, during the actual event, but at the moment the best I can hope for, is reflection after the event. Like a few christmas gatherings I went to recently, I tried to prepare myself mentally beforehand, but once in the hub of the party with questions coming from all angles, and other distractions, I seem to forget all the training.:|
Still, I suppose its down to the old 'once you can take the pebble from my hand, grasshopper..'  Keep trying.

Blue's Website

  • Lono
  • Lono
  • Walker of worlds
  • Offline
  • From: Oklahoma, USA
  • Registered: 2006-05-03

Re: The necessity of opposing forces

Sowelu, I'm a little like Blue, in that I'm not always advanced enough to consider the metaphysical implications of bullies.  I do realize it quickly, though I haven't really thought of it in those terms before.  I just usually realize they're in pain at some point. 

However, I have found that bullies only pick on those they perceive as weak.  As I grow stronger internally, they rarely bother me anymore, even if I don't go around displaying my strength externally.  If there's nothing a person feels badly about or something they recognize about themselves and are working on, jibes don't hurt.

So perhaps I do realize I've drawn them on some level.... and my main line of defense is to work on defenses before they strike.    It's like professional wrestlers shaving their heads so  there's nothing for the opponent to hold onto.:)

But I've also found that it's very possible to stand up for yourself and refuse to be bullied without going on the offense;  in fact, it's always effective to do this.  You can stand quietly, and sometimes wordlessly, and neither strike or turn the other cheek.

71 Reply by titmouse_ (edited by titmouse_ 2007-01-02 20:58:35)

  • From: Shores of Lake Titikaka
  • Registered: 2006-05-25

Re: The necessity of opposing forces

A Perfect Hue

What is the color of your heart?
Do you bleed blue
Or tangerine?
Red requires oxygen;

Bullies sometimes wear red dresses;
Not because their heart bleeds true;
Because they can;
Thank you mam;

A heart that's blue,
Does it too,
Bleed blue,
Through and through?
Does it heal
Or never can?
Sorry mam;

Can I fix it;
Your broken heart?
Can I fill it
With love and joy?
Can I mam
If I can?

Is a mean heart green?
Has it seen tangerine?
Or does it choose
To be that way;
If just for jealousy?

Do we get to pick the hue;
By what we say and what we do?
Can I choose tangerine?
Can I change it
If I please?
Who will know if I do;
If I change the hue;
And change it azure blue?

If my choice is tangerine,
Will it be as sweet;
When you rip it
From within;
And dump it in
A glass of gin? ... then

What is the color of your heart?

~~ the carefulcarpenter


I think bullies want unearned respect; yet, in my experience respect comes first from within.  Civilization has created a need in the individual to be judged by external witnesses. The individuated person can survive outside of these arbitrary limitations and boundaries, gaining needed love from the All. The bully is seeking external respect to fill a void created by an ineffective reward and punishment system established for the benefit of hierarchy and unearned
wealth accumulation. The bully desires external acclaim for the lack of internal satisfaction and peace.  Embrace a bully with human respect and truth; then leave the response in their court. Don't lie or make excuses. Demonstrate your inner self respect.

In regards to the necessity of opposing forces--a bully uses 'fear' as a tool; one may be wise to counter fear with 'love'. Listening, or when being confrontated by a bully, 'attention' is the most effective way to offer this human love. Focussing your attention to the covert needs of the aggressive is the most effective way to dissolve the conflict. Now, if a bully has a gun to your head-- agree with them--own it!  Wash their feet. Humility has its own empowerment. Don't be caught wearing that 'red dress of superficial authority' and then with all righteousness exclaim the 'other' is a bully. Projection is difficult to descern by the ego-mind.

What is the color of your heart?

Fun fact: Great Tits are common in Europe

To know love is to know trust; to know oneself is to know truth
~~carefulcarpenter

1+1=1