31 Reply by bloom (edited by bloom 2006-12-23 10:10:13)

  • Registered: 2006-12-19

Re: The necessity of opposing forces

Hi Zejith_Themis,

The 4 phases (well, 5 if you count the actual light itself as an intention...the thought of creation) are the phases of the direct light.  It explains how a vessel is created everytime.  Phases 0-4 are potential not actuality.  Every desire in the universe, whether of inanimate, vegetative, animate or speaking goes through this process.  We are not walking the path yet.  (You may know all of this by a different language set) Let me see if I can explain mine.  The phases directly correspond to these sefirot which you do recognize.

phase 0 = keter (Shoresh)
phase 1 = Hochma
phase 2 = Bina
phase 3 = Zeir Anpin
phase 4 = Malchut (kingship)

Thelema has its own understanding and although it is not wrong, it is not using the language of branches as I understand it, which confuse things a bit from how I learned and how the knowedge was passed on to me.  I have not even started talking about the partzufim and the paths which are all internal parts of each phase, broken down into 10 and 10 and 10 etc.

Here is the language barrier problem...Alef, bet, gimel and Dalet are also numbers 1-4 in Hebrew, but they are also letters and phases of design, each having their own shape.  :-)  When writing what I did before I never even got to the things you are talking about in your post yet.  That all comes later because 2 restrictions are placed on Malchut eventually.  Malchut at this point is only creation in potential until it is fully emptied.  Phase 4 is what is called Ein Sof, not Keter.  Then Malchut of Ein Sof is where we start to see how creation is actually being formed.  Think of the 10 sefirot and the paths as not a whole system but a system that is endlessly within itself.  Keter has a keter of keter, a malchut of keter etc.  It is all interrelations.

The language of branches is off topic here so we can post that somewhere else and talk about it.  I think we are getting closer to the origin of evil though.  Imagine what happens when Malchut of Ein Sof is fully emptied and all that is left is a reminiscience of the light...these are the spiritual genes or Reshimot)  and these really constitute the ladder more than anything and the 125 steps of the ladder.

The will to receive is considered a "creaure" or can start being called that because it is different from the will of Creator.  The will to receive does not exist in Creator for what could be given there?  The will to receive is a new phenomenon at that point and is what separates.   And yes...duality fails at a certain point but we have to remember there is a difference between potential and actual at every given phase.  STS can exist in potential till teh cows come home.  :-)

Can you send me some beginners stuff on Thelema so I can attempt to put myself in that world?  It may help.  Thanks.

  • From: Vicenza, Italy
  • Registered: 2006-10-05

Re: The necessity of opposing forces

Ok, I get how you're setting it out, though for those who haven't ever wrapped their heads around qabalah it's a bit confusing...

"Phase 3" is therefore the minor countenance (z.a.) and the major countenance (a.a.) is considered in phases 0-2 in your exposition. OK.

However just now you said phase 4 is the limitless (ain soph), which, as I know it, precedes the unity.

Ain, ain soph, ain soph aur (nothing, no limit, and limitless light) then concentrating to the idea of 1.

1 reflects into 2, bringing about "knower" and "known", information comes into existence.    3 is the comprehension of relation.

This triad (unity in trinity) pulls the same trick as the pure unity, reflecting into the second triad, below the abyss, etc...

Now if you're going to substitute phonecian cyphers for arab ones you'd better drop a hint about it right away. It's not like everyone here would pick up on that straight off. I might write down (for my own use) kaf-tet, but reading it to others I'd say 29... communication has to start on common terms to then evolve beyond.

As for trees within sephiroth, the fractal nature of it all, this I'm familiar with. Proposals to analyse components in the veils of the negative I am not. I'd love some input on that... Also on what you mean by "emptying" a sephirah, whether it be on the tree or before it.

Mystification should be avoided at all costs. It is not a difficult philosophy to grasp or make use of, let's not make it seem so needlessly!

...cause Everyone could use this in their Ontological Toolkit. And I love amping people's kits. Part of my Will at this stage.

Some Beginning Stuff on Thelema...

http://www.hermetic.com/

from the "libri" section grab:

book 95

book 777

book 500

book 111

book 150

book 220 (of course)

book 400

book 868

book 2261


Or better yet I could get off my lazy buns and make a short thread on the topic. Wouldn't that be nice... hmm

Love is the law, love under will.
   
     Zejith Themis
      .:420-510:.
    FIAT IUSTITIA
    RUAT COELUM

Zejith_Themis's Website

33 Reply by bloom (edited by bloom 2006-12-23 11:49:52)

  • Registered: 2006-12-19

Re: The necessity of opposing forces

Hi again,

Yes, lets start a new thread I have much to learn and that is my purpose here.  :-)

In regards to Ein Soph, it is important to note that it has received a "name" thus it has been attained.  That which has not been attained cannot be named.  Ein Soph is referring to exactly what you say, but teh vessel is there too.  Ein Soph is after the vessel has already been created and is now filled with the light at 100% so that there is no difference between the two.  In spirituality, due to the equivalence of form they are one and the same.  This is Ein Soph, or that has been termed World Without End because the reciprocity of the light and vessel are infinite.  I have to double check my writings on that.  :-)

We can talk more on this in another thread.  We have moved off topic here for sure.

34 Reply by Zejith_Themis (edited by Zejith_Themis 2006-12-23 12:51:34)

  • From: Vicenza, Italy
  • Registered: 2006-10-05

Re: The necessity of opposing forces

Yes, the original idea of this thread was on how light and dark both are part of defining our 3d/4d existence.

The qabalistic turn is pertinent, as every coin (sephira) has two sides.

That particular symbol-set is not yet in everyone's possession here, though, and so we should start a seperate thread for exposition of neoplatonic/qabalistic occult philosophy.

And we should do it in a way that reduces the number of texts folks have to sludge through to a minimum, defines new glosses whenever presented, and makes some attempt at graduated exposition to avoid cognitive overload.

It took me quite a while to grasp these concepts. More than dictated by their intrinsic complexity.

At first I thought the "Old Sinner" was being abstruse for the fun of it.

I later came to realise he was the foremost straight-shooter in the game at his time and for long thereafter...

Yet the road can be made simpler still, and as heirs of centuries of other people's studies we would be royal arschlochs if we didn't "break it down for tha homies".

Let's kick out the jam.

Love is the law, love under will.
   
     Zejith Themis
      .:420-510:.
    FIAT IUSTITIA
    RUAT COELUM

Zejith_Themis's Website

  • From: An infinite aether cloud
  • Registered: 2006-08-23

Re: The necessity of opposing forces

The reason evil would not exist in the home of the true beings is because it never manifested in the first place. Matter, planets, bodies, etc by their inherent finite nature are evil.  Death is also the creation of this evil reality, in a pure good reality, there would be no FINITE physical existence of any kind.

Yes, the original idea of this thread was on how light and dark both are part of defining our 3d/4d existence.

Naming is the origin of all particular things

The fallacy of all of this to me is that there is such a thing as "pure good" and "pure evil".  Built upon this is that "the Light" is the only "real" thing, and that darkness is an illusory non-thing.  This is still duality mentality.  Resolve the duality, not in choosing one side over the other and waging war against the complementary opposite in whatever fashion you choose, but rather in eliminating the concept of the two extremes of any duality being two different things.  One essence, two manifestations.  To me this very idea of an STS that must be "resisted" is STS itself. Recall in the C's material where the C's openly admit to aiding the upper echelons of the STS "forces" in our 3D/4D.  Why?

Celephais's Website

36 Reply by bloom (edited by bloom 2006-12-23 14:34:08)

  • Registered: 2006-12-19

Re: The necessity of opposing forces

Real quick...who is warring against anything here?

I originally had said more but I think we have killed this topic...it is partly my fault.

In regards to resistance, there is a time for that and a time NOT for that.  I would assume that you would resist if someone was trying to put a knife under your ribs, or kidnap your child.

  • From: Vicenza, Italy
  • Registered: 2006-10-05

Re: The necessity of opposing forces

Celephais >> IMO the Origin is beyond the idea of Duality. There would be neither Evil nor Good in THAT zone.

In Unity there is nothing to put in your mouth, nor is there anything to run away from.

Buddha's Nirvana is not a bad meme, as far as it goes.

Love is the law, love under will.
   
     Zejith Themis
      .:420-510:.
    FIAT IUSTITIA
    RUAT COELUM

Zejith_Themis's Website

  • From: An infinite aether cloud
  • Registered: 2006-08-23

Re: The necessity of opposing forces

Forgive me, it was only the first quote that was intended to be "named" as "fallacy".  The two subsequent quotes were intended as pointing out what you said, which I interpret to mean that "good" and "evil" are both "named" (formed) concepts (indeed agreeing that language is a huge part of what imposes the "seperation") and have no meaning... or not the same degree of seperate concepts in the upper dimensions.

Celephais's Website

  • Registered: 2006-12-19

Re: The necessity of opposing forces

Celephais,

This is a hard subject to me. I really think that what you say is 100% true - that we see 2 sides of the same coin etc.  I think what makes it hard is that we are all right.  In a nutshell, since we are dealing with teh existence of polar forces (as it seems to us anyway) the subjective reigns in our conciousness there.  I know, and youknow that absolute law exists and that it is truth in  totality but we have to come to it by such a messy road indeed.

I think we agree and have the same understanding in regards to the concept of naming or appropriating "form" to specific experiences or conceptual experience.  I find it difficult to get outside of myself to make any type of objective analysis.  That reminds me...my boy was watching "Pooh's Grand Adventure" (Winnie the Pooh) and there is a very amazing line in the movie Ijust heard while typing this.

All of the characters go on a quest to find Christopher Robin when they all realize that without Christopher Robin, they will never find Christopher Robin!  :-)

That is our dilemna too in looking to perceive the truth.

  • From: An infinite aether cloud
  • Registered: 2006-08-23

Re: The necessity of opposing forces

I really think that what you say is 100% true - that we see 2 sides of the same coin etc.  I think what makes it hard is that we are all right.

I read this and had a realization... that "true" and "false" are indeed another duality that needs to be resolved.  I'm very focused on breaking the duality programing in favor of unity, for myself at least.  While such concepts must still be used for the present in terms of communication, understanding language's role in reenforcing the duality paradigm and sidestepping it as often as possible has been a useful practice for me in the past few months.

Celephais's Website

  • Registered: 2005-02-08

Re: The necessity of opposing forces

derek wrote:

Anyone who claims that evil is a neccesary opposite to evil is, in effect, condoning evil, claiming that evil evidentally is good, because it helps you "learn/evolve/advance".  Good is self sufficient. Evil leeches from the good. It can be simply put at that. Imagine a world where all beings showed and shared complete unconditional love. There is no need for evil in a self sufficient system of complete good. Any beings who understand and know inside their hearts what i write, be prepared and REJOICE, for the time is soon, that we will return to our home of complete love and good, devoid of evil, suffering, injustice, and pain. This world of suffering will soon be destroyed and all true beings whose will is aligned with the light will be free. Remember, do not turn your cheek to evil, you must defend yourself.

Yup, seen this.  smile

Such a place does exist, but not in this 3d dimension at this time. It requires that all beings who manifest there to CHOOSE to be there. This is a whole lot more complex than it sounds, but it is easily achieved once the illusion of this world falls away. This dimensional perspective is entirely reliant on those who choose to employ it, and those who do there must adhere to inclusive STO principles to as great of a degree as possible. The problem occurs when an untrained/insane/shortsighted participant enters into this state and either deliberately or unintentionally crashes it.

The part I disagree with is the whole part about not turning your cheek and defending yourself instead. I understand where you're coming from, but I think you're missing the underlying principle. The point of the parable is to seperate yourself from the energy involved in the hostile situation. By refusing to enter into the attack/defend energetic cycle, you can easily strip an opposing entity - one which relies on this sort of interplay for their aggresive power - all without raising your fist. With this in mind, consider that being hit on the cheek the 1st time may be necessary to preserve your own power and peace, but being struck a 2nd time isn't.

But yes, when the need for STS desire (imposed by the reality of 3rd dimensional living) is removed, this STO state is quite possible to those able to choose it, since those who participate responsibly can easily see the advantages of an energy source that is not only unlimited, but also growing and expanding in ways that I have no ability to translate. The awesome thing is that everyone is already there at higher dimensions. It's really just a matter of time, and what is that to someone who has all of it?

-3G

  • Registered: 2005-02-08

Re: The necessity of opposing forces

Celephais wrote:

The fallacy of all of this to me is that there is such a thing as "pure good" and "pure evil".  Built upon this is that "the Light" is the only "real" thing, and that darkness is an illusory non-thing.  This is still duality mentality.  Resolve the duality, not in choosing one side over the other and waging war against the complementary opposite in whatever fashion you choose, but rather in eliminating the concept of the two extremes of any duality being two different things.  One essence, two manifestations.  To me this very idea of an STS that must be "resisted" is STS itself. Recall in the C's material where the C's openly admit to aiding the upper echelons of the STS "forces" in our 3D/4D.  Why?

Ever heard the phrase "evil feeds upon itself?"

At higher dimensional levels, where freewill is paramount, an STS being finds itself in a quandry, since previous deliberate choices leave it with almost none. By choosing to focus upon the self at expense of the all, their energy becomes starkly finite. Most STS beings resort to canibalizing eachother at this state, since STO beings can easily avoid their intentions. When compared to STO beings (who enjoy UNLIMITED energy resources) their purpose can quickly devolve to simple directed action in the service of STO.

Often, this is only learned within it's appropiate context when an STS entity attempts to overwhelm a potential energy source only to find that what it's actually doing is eating a part of itself, since what really happened is the STO entity decided to leave and teach it a lesson at the same time...

-3G

  • Lono
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  • Walker of worlds
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  • From: Oklahoma, USA
  • Registered: 2006-05-03

Re: The necessity of opposing forces

There are some really great responses here!  I think I'm sort of getting an image of duality remaining in higher realms, but becoming increasingly refined until they either disappear altogether into the one-ness, or transform into something we wouldn't even recognize as duality.

One thing I keep coming back to in my mind is that we could not exist as separate entities without this duality of light and dark.  We would be undifferentiated from the whole without awareness of self.  I think someone already mentioned something like this in the thread.

  • From: Vicenza, Italy
  • Registered: 2006-10-05

Re: The necessity of opposing forces

http://forum.noblerealms.org/img/avatars/1091.jpg I read this and had a realization... that "true" and "false" are indeed another duality that needs to be resolved."

That's a Great Realization... run with that and see where it goes.

Love is the law, love under will.
   
     Zejith Themis
      .:420-510:.
    FIAT IUSTITIA
    RUAT COELUM

Zejith_Themis's Website

  • Blue
  • Thank you Tom
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  • From: The bottom of my heart
  • Registered: 2006-07-10

Re: The necessity of opposing forces

Darkness is the natural state of all things. In all creation stories, First Consciousness is within the void, the darkness, looks all around the darkness and realises it is the original thought - "I am". One of the very first things First Consciousness does is to create light within the darkness. " Let there be light".

Now you can imagine all sorts of scenarios that happened in the eons betwixt now and then, but I like to think God made himself a little bedside lamp and made a sign saying 'TRUTH' and shone it on the sign. He stePped out into the void to view it and only got a few hundered yards, and it was just a pin prick in the darkness. So he went back and created some kick ass football stadium lights. He got back a few miles and again, just a pinprick.

So he made Herself a whopping great big sun. He stepped out into the void, but only got a few million miles, when all she could see was a pinprick.

So he started to go all over the universe and started making millions of huge suns to light up the darkness. After billions of years of this, She was still nowhere near the edge of the darkness, it just went on and on. So he went back home. But as She got nearer, he started to get sucked into black holes. The very suns She had created had been imploded by the darkness and become black holes, from which not even light itself can escape.

Totally knackered, he realised this was a bigger job than She had thought, originally.

"I am going to need BILLIONS of Mini Me's, all creator Gods, to get his place lit up." So She needed to create man (and woman).:D

He tried creating a universe that would be full of light, pretty much like ours, but with a further four Suns, in North, East, West, South quadrants, giving equal ammounts of light and warmth to all planets in the system, 24/7.  But the gravitational pull of the 5 suns become chaotic when the orbits of the planets crashed into them. She tried millions of variations of universes, (get a telescope - you can still see the echo of most of them).

Finally, he admitted that the only way was to work WITH the darkness. So She made man (and woman):D, and put them on the planet. He knew that because physical matter was so dense (being of the lower vibration of the physical universe), that the Mini Me's would have to survive in a lower vibrational shell. They would have to overcome lower vibrational impulses (not evel, - survival impulses). This would be a good training ground for them, as She Herself had spent eons trying to overcome the darkness.

There you go, the Light was formed from the darkness. Light needs darkness, but needs to overcome the darkness , so we can find a way of plugging up all the dark holes that God has (inadvertently) created all over the universe.

YOUR GOD NEEDS YOU!

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