The necessity of opposing forces (Page 2 of 5)

This would be ideal, but your point is a bit circular in reasoning: evil is not necessary in a world where evil does not exist, and in that world evil does not exist because it is not necessary due to everyone being good. Well obviously, any world that manages to be 100% good would no longer need evil. The real question is how to get there. Would the people be 100% good because they have chosen it over evil? If so, how could they make that choice unless evil served the necessary function of offering an alternative, thereby creating that choice? And if they did not choose it, but instead are born, live, and die as 100% good beings, then their goodness is not a choice any more than an  herbivore chooses to eat only vegetation.

Also, saying that evil is necessary does not mean turning the other cheek, because even if evil has its place there are too many situations where it must be smacked back to its corner due to continually overstepping its boundaries. But doing so is different than eradicating it everywhere completely. Furthermore, if an entire planet manages to willingly become 100% good, so be it -- there are millions of other planets where evil can still function, thus overall balance can still be maintained.

Personally I know too many people who enjoy evil, whether committing it or being victimized as they get off on nursing their wounded egos and commiserating with others of like attitude. I know people who are offered the choice of good, the way of awareness out of suffering, and choose instead the lazier path of willful ignorance until conditions get so bad that they are finally prodded off their asses to make some changes for the better. In those cases, good is not enough. Or rather, good might just let evil do its natural thing until the person cries uncle, then step in. Sure, if evil did not exist, these people might not be in their dark situations to begin with, but realistically speaking evil does exist and the question is: what next?

I could live perfectly well in a world without evil. I would prefer if no darkness existed in my reality. And if that were to ever materialize, then I would be most grateful. However, I believe this can indeed materialize for me, even if it does not for others. For others who are stubborn, evil might still be necessary. But I think if they made the choice and successfully followed it, they should be given the option of also living in a world without evil, yet even then they could do so without taking the need for evil away from those  even more stubborn. So evil may be necessary overall, even if for you it is not.

Sync

From:

Bloom

Here:

http://forum.noblerealms.org/viewtopic.php?id=4431

To Here:

http://www.perceivingreality.com/

The Last Snip Refers To Kabbala - Insert YOUR Own Personal Resonance / Term / Concept.......

Overall it is a pretty simple concept...the overall gist of it anyway.  We can explain all of the fine-tuned parts and all of the individual situations that brought us to where we are experiencing the light in the way we are experiencing it, but ultimately, that is all we experience!  The LIGHT! 

I am not saying there is not "evil" or STS in the world, but that is all it is...an intention to serve oneself...like ancient Kabbalistic sources have called the intention to receive for self or the will to receive.  The Will to receive, as they coined it (STS) in an intention in every action, with action being the actual intent.  You cannot separate intention from the act for the act itself happens long before what we call action in this world.  But even then we get out of teh bounds of the simplicity of the origin of STS and STO and what they exist for.

STS is an intention just as STO.  Now, the intention that is behind everything is not STS because STS automatically, due to its nature, creates limitation.  There is no limit to the light, only the vessel.  The vessel itself is STS.  All creation is STS in a sense because it is formed as lack on purpose.  It intends reception and service to self because it was built to receive the light.

I always liked the bestowal and reception version of things because it helps put things in perspective.  I am not a lover of the lecture circuit either or even that much of Kabbalah.  What passes for Kabbalah these days, the hermetic vrsions and the Magick and all of that could only interpret the wisdom according to the vessels they had built.  What they built had to be built in a way that could receive the knowledge and then it had to be intended to be received for teh sake of bestowal, which is far more than what we term receiivng something to give back, like we do with knowledge in thsi world.

I hope this makes sense.  Lets keep talking about this.   I can try to explain better but I am not a good teacher as I am a learner.

I am glad you recognize that that existence, without evil, would be ideal .

The reason evil would not exist in the home of the true beings is because it never manifested in the first place. Matter, planets, bodies, etc by their inherent finite nature are evil.  Death is also the creation of this evil reality, in a pure good reality, there would be no FINITE physical existence of any kind. You say there would be no choice, and that is true in part, because in a persons inner true being, they are either a being of the true loving creation, or a creation of the virtual reality. Acting in unconditional love, for a "true light" person, is "natural". The "choice," for a person true light person in this virtual reality, is to give up and excell beyond the physical and the material, and to align your willpower with the divine spirit inside of you, or to remain ignorant of your true spirit, and in most cases, to remain concerned with the temporary pleasures of this temporary physical reality, which are, in effect, blinding you from seeing your true spirit.

Is montalk.net your website? If it is, you have already espoused, or condoned espousal, that most beings are creations of the evil virtual reality. They are either robots, or demon's, the ones who truly thrive on other's suffering. I believe all creations of the virtual reality are, in effect, "agents." In effect these agents of the virtual reality are dependent on the existence of the virtual reality, and can not exist without it. Therefor, evil may be "good" for them, but definately not for beings such as myself who KNOW they spiritually originate from a realm of pure good.

As you said, it is a personal knowing of spiritual origin, which brings me to my definate conclusion that good is self sufficient, and that i come from a realm of pure good.

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Siriarc, im not sure if you agreed or disagreed with me, but as i said before, it is a personal matter, that must be searched inside the individual heart. The idea that suffering is needed to experience love I KNOW is not true, because the realm of unconditional love existed before the conception of "evil" and suffering, and exploitation. I know this because i have sincerely searched in my heart for the answers.  As i said before, in effect, by saying that suffering enables one to feel love, you are espousing that suffering and evil is good because it allows you to feel love. That is false. Suffering is not good. It seems to me what suffering actually teaches is to either escape or condone more suffering. Perhaps it is "beneficial" in this evil physical reality which is based on suffering and exploitation, so that beings will learn to avoid and defend themselves from more suffering. All true beings know in thier hearts, that suffering is evil.

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Bloom, i suggest you take a look at what you write and think about it before you post (i am not trying to be rude). What you say does not make logical sense.

If "evil is STS in a nutshell," then evil DOES exist, and therefor all we experience in this realm is NOT "the light." I ask you is "the light" evil?
I do not want to start an argument about what you feel, i want to point out a clear logical fallacy that i notice you and others commonly make.

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As i usually say, anyone who resonates and feels my message, please read Amitakh Stanford's (xeeatwelve) writings about this matter, she understands and has experienced more than i have. Always read her writings with your heart, sincerely asking and listening for truth.

Good can become self-sufficient(for lack of better terms) once it is sufficiently establish.

The "good/true light/god spark" that is found as you said can be leeched from a person BEFORE is becomes established in that person's life. That person may not want to make the continuing changes that will sustain that "good" in them and therefore return to their previous consciousness/ energy level.

Yet you are found here in this temporary physical realm. My guess is it is this physical realm that helped you

otherwise if you had this knowledge beforehand you probably wouldn't have manifested in the physical realm and we wouldn't be hearing from you.

I like this. Although by choosing to the temporal pleasures of this world you may not be ignorant of your true spirit, you may now be aware of it but aligning with the "lesser" pleasures and knowledge there is.

For what it's worth, I think suffering and evil is NOT so much for us to experience as something to be learned BUT suffering and evil are more to prove WHAT we are, what we align ourselves with and how far we are willing to hold on to it.

If it is harder to "switch sides" in "higher" dimensions where as you say "there is no physical"(which I agree with) then as a guess it is here where we learn about our true light selves, where that seedling of god spark is looking to grow and be nourished. Let's face it you can KNOW anything you want in your heart but does it pan out in your actions.  If there is congruence between the two(more importantly too is between your words and thoughts), great if not...hmmm what does that mean?

As people are "waking" they will still act out of their former"dark nature" this is where I believe some of the Lucifer as a light bringer comes in. As you are made aware of the "darkness" and that part that wants to stay hidden and detached from others comes to light, you have the chance to change and grow two ways, to the light or recoil farther into the dark.

So I guess it depends on what your view of the purpose of what suffering is.

I think all this ties into the original question of "How does the physical express into the spiritual?" BY your actions and your words(collective I guess intentions in motion) Do your actions and words raise or lower vibrations?

Heheh
Thanks!
I always ask for that at all levels...

Very interesting and meaning picture, the Harris quotes are priceless

Okay I am going to try and explain what I mean.  I am not good at this but lets see what we can come up with here.  I will try and unload my brain on this subject...First I want to acknowledge a few points that were made by others before.  Yes Derek,  It was an illogical statement for me to come straight away with the idea that all we experience is the light for that is true, in a sense, but to start there is completely illogical indeed.  I hope to elucidate on that point for although it is all "upper light" that we experience, we experience this force through a different will and intention than the light or "Prime Creator" , whatever you want to call it has towards us...the creature or creation.  There is duality, but only for the sake of correlation and to attain knowledge at first...anyway I hope I make more sense here while trying to explain the processes of creation as they were explained to me.  Evil has its place....believe me.  We do not all speak the "same language" but the conceptual organization of our existence must be the same.  I am sure we can all agree that there is such a thing as an absolute.  We just need to stop using our words as closed systems...closed from each other is what they accomplish unless we can come to a unified theory of conceptual origin.

Some of what we know is what is based on the understanding reached by the Kabbalists (so much was gleaned from them throughout the millenia and called different things)–and what they then revealed in Kabbalistic literature. They came to understand that the source of all reality is a Creator (actually any degree above a current state one is in is referred to as Creator for it gives birth to the state that is trying to perceive it), which they termed "His Essence", since they could not understand the "Him" or prime essence itself.   This is referring to the ultimate Creator, or Prime Creator as it has been referred to.

The most they managed to comprehend was the following: That from His Essence emanates the thought and intention to create created beings in order that the created beings should benefit. This intention they termed "the thought of creation" or the "upper light". As such, regarding the created being, the light is the Creator because his essence is inscrutable to created beings. Rather, the Creator/created-being relationship is enacted through the Upper Light. Thus, the Upper Light emanates from the Higher Power’s essence, for He wishes to create and to benefit the created being by filling him with pleasure.

That is to say that the purpose of the Light is to create a created being who would experience the Light as pleasurable. (Chew on that concept for awhile.) Kabbalists therefore called created beings a "vessel" for the Light. The Light which emanates from the Essence, in order to create a created being is the phase of "root", as it is the source of all existence.

This light also creates the desire to enjoy it, a desire which is also termed "The desire to receive light." The amount of enjoyment depends solely on the degree of the will to receive the pleasure. This is similar to our world, wherein one’s stomach can be empty, but one can still not want to eat. Thus, the desire is the completed vessel, and without desire there is no benefit. For in spirituality there is no coercion, and the fulfillment is always according to the degree of desire. 

The light, which leaves the Essence, creates a vessel and fills it. The pleasure which the created being senses from receiving the Light is called "the Light of Wisdom', and the desire which is created by the Light is "Phase 1," which is the first aspect of the future vessel. But this desire is not yet independent as it is made directly by the Light.

A true created being is one which itself desires to benefit from all the Light that comes from the Creator, and in order to enjoy the Light, the created being must of itself wish to become filled with Light. That is, the desire comes from within himself and not from the Creator. In order to want to receive the Light, the created being must know retroactively how great the pleasure that is inherent in the Light is. Thus he must become filled up with Light and afterwards be in a situation without it. Then there is born a true desire for the light.  Then there is a reminicence...a re-memberance is then possible and it is an independent re-membering that comes FROM the creatuire itself.

Once again, we recognize this phenomenon from daily life: when you give someone a fruit to taste, which he has never tasted before, the person has no previous desire for the fruit. Once he has tasted the fruit, however, and experiences pleasure from it, if we take the fruit away from him the person begins to long for the fruit and its pleasure. This very longing is a new desire which he feels is his independent will. It is therefore impossible the build the vessel in one action.

Rather, in order for one’s will to know from what to seek pleasure and what to desire, one must undergo the entire developmental process. This condition is brought down in kabbalah as a law: "the spreading of the Light within the [created being’s] will to receive, and its departure from therein, makes the vessel worthy for its task of receiving all the Light and benefiting thereof".

The stages of the will’s development are termed "phases" since they are new aspects in the will to receive. And so, the Light which fills the vessel grants the created being, together with pleasure, also the ability to "bestow". While a vessel is still enjoying the Light, suddenly it feels the desire to bestow like the light does, and the reason for this is that the Creator imbues the Light with the ability to grant the vessel the desire to bestow.

Once the light has created phase #1 and filled it completely, the created being begins to feel that it would like to resemble its Creator. Since this is a new desire, it is called "phase 2." Phase 2 is the desire to give, and the pleasure derived from resembling the Creator is called "Kind Light." From here we see that phase 1 is the opposite of Phase 2: whereas the desire in phase 1 is to receive, in phase 2 it is to give.

The Light in Phase 1 is "Orh Chochma", "The light of wisdom" and the light in phase 2 is "Orh Chasadim", "Light of kindness." When the desire to receive in phase 1 begins to benefit from the light filling it, it immediately feels that the light is the giver-and he the recipient, and wants to be like the light itself: not wanting to receive, but wanting to give. Therefore, the desire to receive in it disappears and remains void of the light of Wisdom, for pleasure is not sensed without the desire for it.

The desire to receive cannot remain, though, without the light of wisdom, because that is its light of life. Thus it is impeled to receive a bit of the light of wisdom. This new will, phase #3, actually contains two desires: 1 ) the desire to resemble the Light, 2 ) the desire to receive some of the light of wisdom.

Thus she senses two kinds of Light: the light of kindness, with the desire to bestow, and the light of wisdom with the desire to receive. When phase #3 feels that from the two lights that fill her, the light of wisdom is her life-light by nature, then from independent decision she receives the wisdom in its entirety.

We see that the light which emanates from the essence of the Creator creates a vessel in 4 steps. Thus, the final desire, termed phase 4, is the only created being. All preceding stages are just stages in his development.

In truth, all of the Creation is only phase 4: all that exists except the Creator- falls in to phase 4. Phases 0-4 are also called: root phase, aleph, bet, gimel, and daled respectively. Phase 4 is called "Kingship", for within it rules the desire to receive. 

The desire to receive the light, abundance or the pleasure is created to exactly match the light that wishes to fill it...meaning the desire of the vessel is 100% in correspondence to the amount of light that wishes to fulfill the desire...Creator wishes to fulfill creature totally.  Now herein is where we can start talking about the origin of evil and what it is.  I am not talking about its myriad of manifestations but the intention behind it.  What intention lies behind every evil act we see in the world...what causes the suffering etc.?  Don't tell me I suffer...I know that as does every person in the entire world!  Children know that.  I need to know WHY I suffer and if or what purpose it could serve.

If you want to perceive the Creator, or the next level of your development, you must increase your desire, which flies in the face of alot of mystical teachings that attempt to lower desire.  Desire gets bigger and bigger and teh world just seems to get worse and worse.  Bigger desire, thus more ascension is required.  The desire builds and increases every generation whether you or I find anything to actually fill it with that will last or not.

There is nothing in the world except for the Creator’s desire to please and the created being’s desire to receive that pleasure. Everything is ruled by it. The entire creation in all its possible stages of development, in all dimensions of reality etc.  This is a constant.

The Creator has brought forth the Creation so that upon receiving the Light it may experience infinite and everlasting pleasure, not in a selfish way, but rather in a perfect and an absolute way. If the Light enters the Vessel and fills it up completely, then this Vessel can no longer receive because the desire is saturated by the Light, and in the absence of a desire the pleasure passes away as well.

It is only possible to receive endlessly when you do not receive for your own sake (STS), i.e. you enjoy for the sake of the giver (STO). Then the Light entering the Vessel does not neutralize the desire to receive.

Through experience we all know that when we are hungry and begin to eat, after a certain time we no longer feel the hunger even if the most delicious dishes are made available.

Pleasure is experienced on the borderline between pleasure itself and the desire for it. However, as soon as pleasure enters the desire and starts to satisfy it, this desire slowly fades away. And if the pleasure is stronger than the desire this can even lead to repulsion.

How can pleasure be converted into something perfect and unbounded? A specific scheme has been devised by the Creator. If man feels pleasure not within himself, but while pleasing others, this pleasure is infinite because it depends solely on the amount of pleasure he can still give and to whom he is giving it. The more people I give it to the more pleasure do I feel myself. This condition produces an eternal existence, the perfection, which is one of the attributes of the Creator. This is exactly the state the Creator wants to usher us into.

If the created being wishes exclusively to receive, it finds itself trapped in a vicious circle. It can feel only whatever is inside of it. If the created being could feel the Creator’s pleasure from delighting the creation, it would endlessly experience the pleasure, just like a mother, who selflessly gives to her children.

The optimal scheme corresponds to perfection. The Light does not only transmit simple pleasure, but includes pleasure procured by unlimited knowledge, infinite existence, self-knowledge and self-analysis, a feeling of eternity and harmony, which pervades everything.

The ideal scheme includes the Creator relentlessly pouring the Light on the created being. The created being consents to receive the Light only if by doing so it pleases the Creator. This system is referred to as Returned Light or Reflected Light,  as opposed to the Straight Light  emanating from the Creator.

For this scheme to be, there must exist first and foremost a desire that attracts the Straight Light towards the created being. Secondly, the created being must place a Screen  on the Light’s path. This Screen prevents the experiencing of pleasure for one’s own sake and enables the created being to receive pleasure, but only in proportion to what he can give for the sake of the Creator. Then the created being becomes completely like the Creator.

In other words, the following exchange takes place: the Creator procures pleasure to the created being who accepts it under the exclusive condition that by doing so it pleases the Creator.

I hope this will bring on some questions.  The language is a bit different than we may be used to but I can translate the terms.  Creator and creature and light and reception etc.  all have specific meanings according to the language of branches which can confuse things if we think these words equate to branches and not roots.  I hope this helps a bit.  It should give us some things to discuss.  Can you see the origin of evil and how it comes about here?