1 (edited by Aquarius 2006-12-18 13:00:21)

Topic: How Negative Forces Destroy Internet Fora from Within

Please note:  the following does NOT apply to Noble Realms.  I know that Montalk would never deem himself to be anybody's guru.  Rather, I have witnessed this phenomenon on other fora I visit frequently, along with the devastation which results.

Critique is welcome.  smile




Personality Cults

How Negative Forces Destroy Internet Fora from Within


The internet is an excellent, if not the best, way for individuals who desire to break free from the programming of the matrix to come together.  These people, often separated by vast distances and of different ages and backgrounds, nevertheless find themselves on the same path; thus, they may described as colinear.  They may find themselves drawn to certain internet fora where they can share their experiences and seek solutions with like-minded people in a free-speech atmosphere. 

When colinear individuals can get together, put their heads together, recognize our problems and seek solutions, the matrix itself is threatened.  The matrix is fluid and capable of adapting to new problems, however.  Hence, the rise of cults of personality on free-speech fora to ensnare some posters, drive others away and generally derail the potential threats.

The personality cults I've seen develop have certain aspects in common:  there is a guru, the poster who sets the tone and agenda, and the cheerleaders, the posters who fall in line and support the guru 100%, with no exceptions.

As far as characteristics go, the gurus and the cheerleaders have the many of the same attributes in common.  Some or all of the following red flags may apply:

1)  They may have had traumatic childhoods and/or unusual experiences as children, such as visitations by aliens
2)  They communicate with non-human entities, including but not limited to guides, angels, aliens or Jesus
3)  They are expert in achieving altered states, whether through prayer, meditation, or the use of pot, mushrooms, or similar substances
4)  They often present medical conditions which produce chronic pain, with the concurrent use of painkilling drugs
5)  They tend to be depressive in nature and take psychoactive prescription medications
6)  Identification with nature spirits; they may describe themselves as fairies, bears or other animals, or they may report that trees talk to them, for example
7)  Identify themselves as witches, pagans, or sometimes even as very devout Christians
8)  Identify themselves as psychic and accomplished remote viewers


I am not saying that everybody who fits any of the criteria above are involved in personality cults, merely that these are red flags to watch for, as the guru and cheerleader types so often display several of them.

You may have noticed that the characteristics of the cultists are also red flags to a potential mind control victim.  This correspondence is not coincidental.  I believe that non-human negative entities are exploiting these people for the purpose of disrupting free speech internet fora, and they are doing it to protect the matrix.

My hypothesis is that these forces work on the cult members when they are in a vulnerable state; that is, through manipulation of dreams while the subjects are sleeping, or perhaps in altered states.  The messages may also be experienced by the members as voices in their heads.

The guru and his or her cheerleaders are very similar in nature.  What sets the gurus apart is their clear, unambiguous leadership role; the others merely follow their lead.  One other difference is that the guru is more prone to emotional breakdowns and bizarre behavior -- perhaps that is the result of their more intense control by negative entities.

The guru acquires his or her followers from the posters who are generally less intelligent or less opinionated - the wishy-washy and easily manipulated posters.  Some people are loathe to express an opinion on any controversial topic -- racism is one example of a hot-button issue that makes some nervous.  For example, many posters, confronted with someone who signs their posts with 14/88, an obvious Heil Hitler, white-supremacist salute, will, when pressed for an opinion, shyly aver that they don't know whether that poster is racist or not.  Cheerleaders are drawn from the ranks of posters such as this.  Posters who desire to be seen as popular are also good candidates for cheerleaders.

The gurus themselves tend to be negative, nasty, paranoid egomaniacs.  They are extremely opinionated and always convinced that they are right.  They do not hesitate to launch vicious attacks on anybody and everybody who disagrees with them.  Normally, one would expect such a poster to become unpopular very quickly, yet these guru types manage to attract and keep loyal followers.

The gurus win their converts over by displaying their vulnerable sides and presenting themselves as victims of those who disagree with them.  They definitely suffer severe "martyr" complexes, which elicit sympathy from the unaware potential cheerleader.  The recruit feels sorry for the guru and his or her protective instincts kick in.  At this point, the cheerleader is a full member of the cult.  Any and all criticism levelled at their guru is met with complete resistance.  Cheerleaders will never consider evidence contrary to their adoration of their guru; their loyalty is unassailable.

Occasionally, a cheerleader will inadvertantly express an opinion contrary to the guru's position on an issue.  When that happens, you may be certain to see a turn-about in the future.  Perhaps the next time the topic comes up, the poster takes a position opposed to the previous one.  Sometimes the 180 degree turn is accomplished immediately, and can be quite comical to witness.

How the cult disrupts an internet forum is very simple; any opinion offered which is contrary to the guru's point of view is flamed or the threads expressing them are otherwise disrupted.  The disruption may not be easily detected by an unaware observer, for sometimes the tactics are to kill with kindness, silliness and seemingly good-natured attempts to be humorous.   But the intent is negative, not positive.  The intent is to silence opposing viewpoints.

Over time, under the constant barrage of distractions, the percentage of non-cult posters and threads falls to a very low percentage.  Other individuals who may be colinear with the original forum members are not inclined to join and contribute, and current posters with dissenting viewpoints grow tired of being attacked and of the low signal-to-noise ratio and move on to seek another forum, hoping to find one where free speech still exists.

Some say the world will end in fire,
Some say in ice.
From what I've tasted of desire
I hold with those who favor fire.
But if it had to perish twice,
I think I know enough of hate
To say that for destruction ice
Is also great and would suffice.  ~Robert Frost

2 (edited by Zejith_Themis 2006-12-18 13:58:27)

Re: How Negative Forces Destroy Internet Fora from Within

Unfortunately a naturally-occuring mechanism that allows the ponerization of enlightenment-oriented groups.

And the gurus in question may not even be aware of it, merely tied to convictions and "ready to defend them".

NR is free from such nonsense thanks to the acquired wisdom of the moderator... we ALL have reality-tunnels, he's realized the value of letting many overlap so the PERSONAL wheat can be divided from the PERSONAL chaff of each through constructive comparison.

Or as they like to call it here, resonance.

The "colinear structure" proponents that channel the flow of other forums would balk at the idea of such "ontological anarchy".

Practice proves Montalk and others right.

The phenomenon you document is key in the formation of all orthodoxies (if you're alone in your orthodoxy, you're a crank. Move enough people and you're a "community")

The internet rocks because we can see such "cultural evolution" in fast-frame photography. What has happened throughout history to religions, political movements, nation-state egregori, etc. happens in a few years in an internet "community".

The possibilities for awakening to the mechanisms are therefore multiplied.

Colinearity within a forum is not unlike the "cult experience" or the re-programming of one's reality-tunnel.  Often in these cases material which analyzes the "reimprinting" can even be studied in the group, without anyone (IMO even those perpetrating) realizing the same thing is happening there.

I have no idea on how such mechanisms can be obviated (does that word exist or did I make it up?) but I think that Montalk (not to prop his research over others, but he DOES break it down so well) has given to the esoteric exploration trip the equivalent of what "the logical fallacies" are to debate... good caveats, knowledge that truly protects.

Flaming is silly. Silencing is silly. Truth fears no comparison, and honest searching CRAVES every comparison to distill "truth" or as close as one can get.

My personal need for comparison stems from a ratio-centric tunnel-reality. Some here have the gift of surpassing that center in communicating. Everyone will find their own road, and variety facilitates this.

How do the Discordaians say? "Nothing is real; everything is permitted"?  This is where order comes out of chaos. What comes Out of Order? wink

Love is the law, love under will.
   
     Zejith Themis
      .:420-510:.
    FIAT IUSTITIA
    RUAT COELUM

Re: How Negative Forces Destroy Internet Fora from Within

Thanks for your comments, Zejith smile


Zejith_Themis wrote:

And the gurus in question may not even be aware of it

Oh, I agree, and I'll try to work that into my next rewrite.  I think the gurus are chosen to fill that role for their susceptibility to programming from without, and that they suffer terribly from the process, making them prone to rages and breakdowns.

Some say the world will end in fire,
Some say in ice.
From what I've tasted of desire
I hold with those who favor fire.
But if it had to perish twice,
I think I know enough of hate
To say that for destruction ice
Is also great and would suffice.  ~Robert Frost

Re: How Negative Forces Destroy Internet Fora from Within

Too true... the gurus in question undoubtedly "suffered much" to gain their role... their enlightenment, as they see it.

Hard-won reality tunnels are more difficult to leave than imposed ideas.

or: It's easier to renounce the god of your forefathers than the one you (think you've) found for yourself.

This ties in to another thread (I wish I'd looked at quoting, etc. in the forum instructions) on "Organic Portals", the concept of the "easy tricks" amongst us that "TPTB" use... the idea that those that might be diagnosed as such by a certain view are not, in fact, "another race" but a majority of weakened/well-programmed humans that offer an "in" to human-hostile or human-using entities, while being human themselves.

I remain reticent on defining "op's" as non-human. The term "Organic Portal" is still valid, and through personal experience the thesis of the souless body is still up in the air for me, but I have a certain investment in a certain reality-tunnel that states "every man and every woman is a star".

Are "my" "OP"s folks in distress or disasters waiting for opportunity? This I ignore... practical considerations prohibit deep experimental exploration. I remain willfuly ignorant of the answer in the particular cases  because fate (HGA?) has distanced me from them, and I feel I have no part (or right) in seeking further interaction.

It's a hot subject though, and full of ethical dilemmas. I, being ratio-centric look for a practical angle. Does it seem (realistically) like I can be of any help? If not, then let them be. It could be a True Will expressing it's course chaotically, or it could be a black hole.

In any case the prime directive rocks. If that mean withdrawal, so mote it be.

(side note... fast keystrokes on the browser have triggered the function by which typing replaces the previously typed characters [opera browser]. What the heck do I push to make it go away?! Beezelbub's Bum, what an annoyance!!! I edit as I type and cannot return to linear typing!!{ my horns won't fit through the door!})

Love is the law, love under will.
   
     Zejith Themis
      .:420-510:.
    FIAT IUSTITIA
    RUAT COELUM

5 (edited by Mutant Mouse 2006-12-18 15:59:26)

Re: How Negative Forces Destroy Internet Fora from Within

The guru acquires his or her followers from the posters who are generally less intelligent or less opinionated - the wishy-washy and easily manipulated posters.  Some people are loathe to express an opinion on any controversial topic -- racism is one example of a hot-button issue that makes some nervous.  For example, many posters, confronted with someone who signs their posts with 14/88, an obvious Heil Hitler, white-supremacist salute, will, when pressed for an opinion, shyly aver that they don't know whether that poster is racist or not.  Cheerleaders are drawn from the ranks of posters such as this.  Posters who desire to be seen as popular are also good candidates for cheerleaders.

The gurus themselves tend to be negative, nasty, paranoid egomaniacs.  They are extremely opinionated and always convinced that they are right.  They do not hesitate to launch vicious attacks on anybody and everybody who disagrees with them.  Normally, one would expect such a poster to become unpopular very quickly, yet these guru types manage to attract and keep loyal followers.

The gurus win their converts over by displaying their vulnerable sides and presenting themselves as victims of those who disagree with them.  They definitely suffer severe "martyr" complexes, which elicit sympathy from the unaware potential cheerleader.  The recruit feels sorry for the guru and his or her protective instincts kick in.  At this point, the cheerleader is a full member of the cult.  Any and all criticism levelled at their guru is met with complete resistance.  Cheerleaders will never consider evidence contrary to their adoration of their guru; their loyalty is unassailable.

I've seen this phenomenon all types of forums, from art forums to Lord of the Rings ones.  I just call the moderators drama queens/kings because that's what they are!

Once I visited a forum exactly like the one you described, and the moderator was doing her drama queen act.  She was lamenting the fact that she was so popular on the board. Oh woe is me!

I typed a short message in response:

Oh, shut the f*** up and go do something meaningful.

Of course, I got banned, but not before the moderator typed out about two pages telling lies about me, even accusing me of being literally insane.  I was happy to leave that place.  tongue

6 (edited by Zejith_Themis 2006-12-18 16:08:02)

Re: How Negative Forces Destroy Internet Fora from Within

Ah, reaction... the breakfast of selenarians!

Any reply would have gotten you banned, of course, but a more analytical reply might have freed a few amongst the populace of the place. Even in the time between writing and censorship.

The better the reply, the more vain the excuses for banning. And therefore greater possibility for divulgating discernment.

But don't mind me, I wait for a healthy environment before getting in.... coward that I am. wink

Love is the law, love under will.
   
     Zejith Themis
      .:420-510:.
    FIAT IUSTITIA
    RUAT COELUM

Re: How Negative Forces Destroy Internet Fora from Within

Zejith_Themis wrote:

It's a hot subject though, and full of ethical dilemmas. I, being ratio-centric look for a practical angle.

Zejith, can you elaborate on what you mean when you say you're ratio-centric?

"The unknown does not incite fear, but dependence on the known does." - J. Krishnamurti

8 (edited by Zejith_Themis 2006-12-18 17:14:16)

Re: How Negative Forces Destroy Internet Fora from Within

I mean I'm stuck in the rational circuit, what Leary and Wilson would call the symbolic-artifact manipulation circuit. I am a logic-head.

ratio (pronounce ra'zio)=reason

Love is the law, love under will.
   
     Zejith Themis
      .:420-510:.
    FIAT IUSTITIA
    RUAT COELUM

Re: How Negative Forces Destroy Internet Fora from Within

haha.

RA=RA

ZIO=Uncle (italian)

Ra is my uncle.

Is Uncle how it's written or am I tripping on words? Uncle doesn't even look like a word to me right now. LOL Uhn-Kel... roll

Love is the law, love under will.
   
     Zejith Themis
      .:420-510:.
    FIAT IUSTITIA
    RUAT COELUM

10 (edited by lyra 2006-12-19 05:56:41)

Re: How Negative Forces Destroy Internet Fora from Within

Okay, well on a lighter note, here's this funny link called "Flame Warriors" that outlines all the typical message board stereotype characters you'll find out there on the 'net.  Totally hilarious and relate-able for anybody who's ever participated in a forum! 

http://redwing.hutman.net/%7Emreed/


Funny link, check it out.  wink  Just click on the drop down box to select a Flame Warrior....

"Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting "Holy shit ... what a ride!"  - Anonymous
-----
"I get by with a little help from my (higher density) friends."
-----

11 (edited by lyra 2006-12-19 06:01:05)

Re: How Negative Forces Destroy Internet Fora from Within

...............but back on a serious note, there's a certain well known forum out there in Internet Land that fits the opening introduction to a T, and it's probably the same forum you're referring to.   But over at that forum, the leaders are the angry gurus, and they're surrounded by sycopants ("cheerleaders") who positively trip over themselves to suck up to these leaders, and will rabidly go around defending the gurus to all newbies who dare question anything.  It's absolutely sickening.  I don't know whether to be disgusted or feel sorry for them.  They annoy me more than anything the gurus do over there.   In fact, the gurus don't have to do anything hardly....they just can sit back and let the sycophant cheerleaders do all defending and attacking on their behalf.   It's unreal.  I've truly never seen a group of people so lost and in need of the protection that being under the wing of those gurus seems to provide them.  What's even worse....some of these sycophants have themselves been on the receiving end of the paranoid character assasination attacks of the gurus, and yet become so distraught at possibly being booted from the forum that they will do ANYTHING to get back on their good side.  ANYTHING to be back in the fold and under that protective wing.  Sick sick sick dynamics I tell you, some serious dysfunction going on.  They have the traits of people who've been abused in life and have this warped need for their abuser.

"Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting "Holy shit ... what a ride!"  - Anonymous
-----
"I get by with a little help from my (higher density) friends."
-----

12 (edited by montalk 2006-12-18 23:20:47)

Re: How Negative Forces Destroy Internet Fora from Within

Hey Aquarius, you described very well the darkside of colinearity. Strange how good things get corrupted, replaced by their negative counterparts with only a few noticing. For example:  "people on the same wavelength working together" becomes "blind submission to group consensus without room for dissent." Both involve people going in the same direction, but the first through natural harmony and the second through irrational coercion.

Your analysis seems to apply more to forums that have already been destroyed, and how these continue to maintain their oppressive nature. Further topics to explore:  how does a good forum become corrupted to begin with? How is it destroyed from the top down? How is it destroyed from the bottom up?

What's sick is how the matrix explores with its tendrils every single node of influence on earth, looking for weaknesses to exploit in order to acquire control over that node. Doesn't matter how large or small. On a forum, the moderators and most active posters are the major nodes of influence. Therefore they are targets #1 -- its like a chess game, and if the important pieces are taken out then the game might as well be over. Once the forum leadership goes, it's all over.

I saw this for myself once, how a couple key subversive members wormed their way into the inner circle and infected the group ideology with disinformative concepts, and how the group leader succumbed to this influence due to irrationality and paranoia brought on by external persecutory pressures that really brought out the ego-survival instinct. Once they were subverted, it was simply a matter of exerting their absolute authority to reel in those weak-spined members looking to boost their own egos by aligning with bigger ones, and together these could all rain fists down upon dissenters. Matrix mission accomplished.

As for how groups can be destroyed from the bottom up... overrunning the forum or "divide and conquer" seem to be popular methods. If enough members of an incoherent, subjective, egotistical, or irrational nature participate it can drive the rest into leaving, resulting in what you said here:

Aquarius wrote:

Over time, under the constant barrage of distractions, the percentage of non-cult posters and threads falls to a very low percentage.  Other individuals who may be colinear with the original forum members are not inclined to join and contribute, and current posters with dissenting viewpoints grow tired of being attacked and of the low signal-to-noise ratio and move on to seek another forum, hoping to find one where free speech still exists.

The "divide and conquer" routine is pretty effective.

On the forum it usually involves an agent provocateur playing a highly polarizing role that throws candy to the ego-ridden, insecure, naive, and suggestible members while simultaneously throwing daggers at the more aware membership. Eventually one of the latter snaps and calls out this new charlatan on his game, but the other half of the membership jumps to contest the accusation. Line is drawn, sides are chosen, angry words exchanged, and trust ruined. If the moderator can be fooled into siding with "fairness and equality" and letting it all continue to avoid denying anyone their right to free speech, then the aware members leave the forum in disgust, causing the integrity and intelligence of the forum to plummet (which was the plan all along).

A sneakier tactic is for an agent to merely lurk and scope out new or manipulable members, then contact them off-line to build rapport and through false rumors and half-truths steer their minds towards having antipathy for the forum's nodes of influence. This way those budding members are deflected from interacting with the more positive and aware individuals. Once their awareness is biased, they see everything through that crooked lens and by commiserating with each other lock into place their biases. The positive nodes-of-influence are therefore quarantined, and a disaffected membership is built up for later use.

I think it all comes down to ego-mania and ego-insecurity. An egomaniacal moderator can be nudged into locking down the forum. An ego-insecure moderator can be guilt-tripped and manipulated into letting the agents run rampant. An ego-insecure membership will sacrifice truth and integrity for group cohesion and pats on the head from authority. An ego-maniacal membership arises whenever there is a dissenter threatening their identities, unifying them into a pack of mad dogs.

Most moderators never think about these issues and therefore fail to take preventative measures. What makes NR rare is that its membership is largely capable of policing itself, and I have learned from my experiences with previous forums what dangers to avoid. But still, the danger is always there, even if latent... so make use of the moment because the future can never be guaranteed.

------

Also worth noting is hypnotic forces present in the guru-cheerleader dynamic. It's as if the guru exerts a hypnotic pull on others and they fall into a trance. I think that being in a dream-like trance explains how some of these can be so irrational and reactive in their behavior. Scaled up it turns into mass-hypnosis, like the kind that allowed the rise of Nazism.

Acquiring fringe knowledge is like digging for diamonds in a mine field.

Re: How Negative Forces Destroy Internet Fora from Within

Also worth noting is hypnotic forces present in the guru-cheerleader dynamic. It's as if the guru exerts a hypnotic pull on others and they fall into a trance. I think that being in a dream-like trance explains how some of these can be so irrational and reactive in their behavior. Scaled up it turns into mass-hypnosis, like the kind that allowed the rise of Nazism.

That's the feedback loop... I was noticing it in all sorts of interactions.  We often see it but disregard it as natural "small talk". The same socialising mechanism gets used by sowers of discord.

Like a certain person I know, desperate to participate in conversation...

Anyone remmeber those teddybears that answered when spoken to? Ever stop in the toy store, take one aside, say something to it then put it in front of another?

It was fun then, but when you realise people are often like that its scary/annoying. Also, the "chatterboxes" are more likely to speed up when the conversation is "complaining" about some common annoyance/foe/situation. It is a primitive manner of social bonding, playing to second and fourth "brain circuits", common territory and common "morality"

It plays on our tribal circuits, discussing the "enemies of the tribe." I've seen conversations (between folks that really had nothing to say) wax surreal and even vicious along this line. The poor person being discussed was actually a good friend to both... that's how it gets surreal!

Guru-cheerleader dynamics, email asides, "holding the homeland"...  Like I was saying about Nation-states, religions and political movements, the ponerization angles are the same, but internet communities move at a fast pace. That means they can disintegrate or deteriorate rapidly, but the entire process al;so happens in a very observable manner.

I still think the "matrix agency" or "dweller on the threshold" are fundamentally stupid, I daresay mindless. The mechanisms take hold where they find a handhold, a loose string to pull.

An infinite array of tentacles, yes, but little coordination. The mere SATURATION of presence makes it seem "crafty" when indeed it is just big.

The lack of elasticity in the tactics used seems to support this. I think the ponerizing force uses the Powell doctrine, not an accurate study of Sun-Tzu.

Just an idea...

Love is the law, love under will.
   
     Zejith Themis
      .:420-510:.
    FIAT IUSTITIA
    RUAT COELUM

Re: How Negative Forces Destroy Internet Fora from Within

All this matrix game is too tiresome...

Bye, Pictus

--------------------
http://pictus.co.nr

Re: How Negative Forces Destroy Internet Fora from Within

Your analysis seems to apply more to forums that have already been destroyed, and how these continue to maintain their oppressive nature. Further topics to explore:  how does a good forum become corrupted to begin with? How is it destroyed from the top down? How is it destroyed from the bottom up?

Well, here's the tactics I've seen used.

The agent comes in with a group of friends.  This agent is "funny."  If it's a debate forum, they also have "logic."  I put logic in quotation marks because logic to most debaters is just parroting propaganda slogans.  This combination of "humor" and "logic" causes a lot of people to like the agent and friends.

The agent, because of popularity, often lands a job helping moderate the forum.  And then it all goes downhill from there.

The agents will conspire against people who rebel against them off-forum.  They will separate their target from his or her friends (and potential friends) on the forum with lies and vicious gossip, and these tactics eventually make the target leave in anger.  I've had it happen to me in the forum I used as an example.

Therefore, there are less real people, and more and more agents and their zombie slaves, which you guys call cheerleaders.