Topic: Quality vs. Quantity, a chaotic analysis of the concepts

My chaotic thought process doesn't very well fit the categorization of the traditional posts whose topics can seem to be limited to a single concept.  My plan with this type of writing was more a journal type, but my ego, and self seek input from others on my concepts so I post here a long train of thoughts.  Feel free to comment as my purpose is to seek discourse.  I appreciate insights that may help me communicate my thoughts more effectively with others.  Hopefully with discipline I may gain a more focused ability to convey ideas but for now I give you this.   

To be wrong there must then be a correct, and I still don't know if there can or is such thing as the truth.  In a world built on what could possibly be layers of illusion what is correct?  Is the illusion the truth, is there such thing as the truth.  Well lets try to understand this confusing concept.  One day you will die correct?  Well when you die, do you really cease to exist.  Definitely your illusory physical self dies, but what if your soul lives on.  What part of you is your soul?  Is it your personality, your knowledge, your sum total experiences?  If it is the sum of all experiences then does the person you are at death fade into the background of all the composite lives that you ever were?  Would you identify yourself as a human, or as the time when you lived as a snake, or when you were a crystal.  You see how a simple concept such as trying to understand the truth about do you die completely at death or live on can not simply be answered as a yes or no question.  More importantly how can you know the truth of any answer, we will go back to the life after death analogy.  Say when you die you become what you expect to become.  In this instance a Christian would see Saint Peter at the gates of heaven, where someone who didn't believe in anything after death may be stuck on earth as a discarnate entity living outside the laws of the illusion, but somehow perpetually locked in it.   Two different answers to the same question of what is life after death.  Similarly there could be an infinite number of possibilities that arise from this situation.  So when trying to define the truth of the afterlife, it may be impossible to define what life after death is like.  The point here being, as there is the possibility that there is no concrete answer to any question.  Even mathematics can never be completely without flaw.  Yes 2 + 2 will always equal 4, but numbers only represent things.  You can take two apples and two bananas and now yes you have 4 pieces of fruit, but you also have 2 round shaped fruits, and 2 oblong shaped fruits, not the 4 you have when you are measuring the quantity fruits.  These simple numbers can measure an absolute quantity but they can never be used for abstract qualities.  If I were to ask if it was better to have 2 apples or 3 apples, the answer would most likely be 3 apples.  However what if the 3 apples were rotten, and the 2 were not.  The 2 would then be better.  The numbers not representing quality can be used to deceive a mind which has been placated into having no capability for abstract qualitative measurements, having only the capability of understanding simple mathematics. 

I believe this point may be crucial in the upcoming future.  I believe we will soon see the world put into a battle where two sides exist.  There will be the sterile side of clean quantities, versus the abstract, chaotic side of quality.  The government will be on the side of quantity where everything in existence will be analyzed as a clean quality.  Governments do not see people as individuals, but as resources which they may use to overwhelm the smaller resources of other nations.   This is the hive mindset, the idea that the people exist as entities whose only value or purpose is when they are a functional part of their government.  When a person does not contribute to the society of which the rulers of it compose its mind, they are seen as a cancer which needs to be destroyed before they draw off a certain quantity of valuable resources, like a cancer is removed from the body. 

On the other side you have the quality.  You have the things that make your friends, your family, your favorite television personalties memorable.  Those people who you hold dear who you know qualitatively could never be considered by you as a cold number, as just another death in Iraq, just another suicide, another cancer victim.  Those people to you are a list of memories, and their personality has imprinted on your soul, a piece of which you will carry with you forever, as long as you exist, whether that end in death or at the end of time.  Those people who will seek quality of life, not how many dollars can I make, cars can I own, beautiful people I can do, will be on the side of individuality.  They will stand up against those who call them a quantity, call them another person to add to their endless list of faceless stats. 

Most interesting to this whole discussion, is that it appears this whole battle will take in the illusion we believe is reality.  It will be fought, and may take the lives of many of us here currently.  Those who have not been able to remember that yes they have lived before this, and to see therefore they will live again as will their loved ones and everyone else, will be absolutely terrified by this battle that may take place.  For them to die here will be the end.  It doesn't matter if they are close to death anyway, there will be some who will stab those with a full life to live in the back just to extend their lives for a couple more years.  This fear, a fear that can be seen on the face of every Bush supporter in this country will be a decisive factor in the war of quantity verse quantity. Few would give up quality of life, but all who think that death is the end will give up quality of life to add to the quantity of time they have left to live. 

I see a view of two utopias that will come into light soon.  One utopia will be the governments version, the institutions version, where the utopia is the beauty of the institution and how well and efficient, cold, and clean, chiseled and flawless it performs, the perfect melding of a human society into a government structure, with those leaders providing the simplistic function of the controlling mind forcing all of its extremities to do as it commands with perfection.  This society may appear beautiful from the outside, but it will have no soul, its inhabitants will feel empty, it will provide no nourishment for the only thing which is important to an individual, its soul. 

The other utopia will be the utopia of quality.  Where its being work in a mutual cooperation, with respect for quality of life, and all things living, that will live, and have ever lived. I cannot tell you what this society will look like because there are none who have had the vision to see it, and explain it widely to others.  It may be a society similar to that of the ancient American civilizations, where balance was the most important things to the society rather then the male type dominance based ideals that wiped them from the earth, and replaced them with quanitity.

What can a human do in this situation?  Can the sides be known for sure?  If individuals are to hope to maintain their individuality they must quit seeing things as black or white, as quantitatively yes or no, true or false, good or bad, light or dark.  I believe we must look in detail at what makes up things.  Our leaders are not just greedy megalomaniacs.  Regardless of what evils lie in our opponent you can rest assured they have some good qualities too.  They have made mistakes, have guilt, have conscience if only fleeting.

The next concept to come to mind recently as I witness everyone in the world declaring they are right.  The Catholics think they are right, the Protestants, Muslims, Buddhists, Atheists, Scientologiets, Metaphysicians, Historians, they are all right, right?  Well because each one of these groups has some good points about reality, but have many contradictory beliefs, how then can any one of them be right?  I got to thinking that well maybe there is some mixture of all those things that is right.  But more recently it has come to mind what if there really isn't such thing as right.  I used to seek all the answers, but what if the only answers can be known by a mind that isn't limited by thinking in 3-dimensions, a mind that only can comprehend sequential time, a mind that cannot believe if it doesn't see.  We must look at the world with a lack of arrogance that allows us not to have the answers, without the necessity to be right.  For once we are “right” , then what room is there to learn, what about all those helpful ideas that others who are “wrong”  give you, but you do not listen to because you are right.

What if what is right is relative, like karma.  A man who has no karmic debt will need to live a life completely different than someone who has an enormous karmic debt to pay. In that sense what is right is completely different for those two individuals.  Thinking that a hive mind is perfectly suited for insects, but is it what is best for beings that have individuality, an absolute conformity hive mentality may be very destructive to an individuals soul.   

I have no answers, only questions.

"...But Nothing is Lost:" "Nothing lasts... nothing lasts. Everything is changing into something else. Nothing's wrong. Nothing is wrong. Everything is on track. William Blake said nothing is lost and I believe that we all move on." - Terrence McKenna - Shpongle - But Nothing Is Lost

2 (edited by Ashen 2006-11-02 19:49:34)

Re: Quality vs. Quantity, a chaotic analysis of the concepts

questions. eternal questions.

'prying open my third eye' - Tool


The words you use to describe your thoughts ring well with my own thoughts Captain.
These days there are so many questions. At times its overwhelming. Just wanting to KNOW... I find the hardest thing though, is finding time to stop and look around, breathe in, FEEL, and see. I find myself so busy chasing at phantoms and stitching together concepts within my mind that I forget that there is this world out there that nearly demands to be seen, and felt on more than just a physical spectrum.

We all create our own utopias. Our lives are our perceptions. An infinite number of individual realities are out there. As we create these realites, we create vibrations that other individuals will inevitably pick up on. Just as we as the individual are receptive to external vibrations.  My point is, we're constantly bombarded with an infinite number of other individual perceptual vibrations, which in turn effect our own perceptions and in a snowball effect, alter the consistencey and quality of OUR vibrations. Which brings me back to what I said about questions... constant questions.

Theories. Ideas. Concepts.

white background noise
the static shuffle of the dreamers feet
synaptic lighting illuminates the clouds in the bright blue sky behind his eyes
the wind billows around the cracked pillars and tangles in the dangling chains
and a haunting whistle finds his ears and chases its echo into his heart
symbols fill his vision with magical precision
he sees their meaning melt like ice and become fluid
and the electron pulses shimmer in the frigid dew
a diamond prism emits a billion shafts of laser light
that pierce the wispy whiteness of the clouds
and bore holes through the blue canvas shroud


not really an answer.... not really a question.
Just a ramble that was liberated from my mind by reading your words.
See what comes of it?

Cheers

I am programmed to emit good vibrations

3 (edited by seatrout 2006-11-02 19:57:40)

Re: Quality vs. Quantity, a chaotic analysis of the concepts

I have come to think of it as a game. In that it's not "winning" that matters but the journey that gets you to the "end". When it's "over" you can start a new a "game". And with any game there is more than one way to get to the "end". Maybe that means that it's not the answers that matter but the way you find the answers.

Re: Quality vs. Quantity, a chaotic analysis of the concepts

Ashen - My discussion of utopias wasn't really meant to define what a utopia is.  I was trying to understand better what this cosmic battle between good and evil is.  I am of course not referring to the United States versus terrorism, but this metaphysical good vs. evil, light vs. darkness, negative vs. positive, this battle that is mentioned by religious literature and beliefs, in channeled literature, esoteric literature, new age literature.  I am attempting to clarify this issue, which possibly cannot be clarified.  What is this battle, and who is it between.  At this moment it appears to me that there are two main ideologies at work, and each side would like to establish their utopia on this planet in the near future.  The side that I defined as the quantitative side, the negative, dark, evil, mechanical side, their view of utopia I believe is the one that exists in with no wars, everything has a clean sterile mechanical beauty to it, but there is no quality to this society, only function.  It may indeed be a beautiful place, but it will be a horrible place for individuals with unique souls.  The society will demand  conformity, obedience, to give control to the government everything that makes us who we are.  This utopia was depicted in books like 1984, "A brave new world", and movies like "Equilibrium".  These pieces are a warning as to what will happen if this version of "utopia" is established. 

The utopia of quality, light, good, positivity would be a land of individuality, freedom, nature.  I haven't really got a feel for what it would be. 

When you talk about the existence of many realities, in the sense the different reality every person lives in, I agree with you there.  However, we do in fact live in this 3dimensional place on this 3d planet, and the situations as they exist here do mold each of those individual realities you were mentioning.  This one reality we all live in, the collective reality so to speak, I believe is possibly the assimilation of all the individual realities of individuals who exist in it.  For instance you don't need to physically start a war in this reality to get a war.  If you can modify enough individual realities to believe there is a war going on, then they will go and start that war.  This I believe is what is what happened with this Iraq mess.  The warhawks convinced enough of Americans and others that a war was taking place against America, and indeed a war was begun by Americans who believed they were already in one. 

This molding of individuals realities in order to distort the collective reality I think will be used to try and establish the negative utopia.  This is were and how the battle of minds is taking place.  If enough people's realities change to fit the negative utopia as where they want to live, it will move the collective reality towards being that negative utopia. 

Now, I do see dynamics to this situation that are way beyond linear thought, and human reason, like involvement of hyper dimensional entities, and the representation on earth of many advanced human souls that have occupied human vehicles in order to steer this collective reality away from the negative utopia.  Dynamics that I can not conceive of such as a raising of human conscientiousness to higher planes, and the end of the world, Armageddon, the Rapture, A comet impact, the return of the Sun's twin star, there are just too many dynamics to think of this situation linearly.  This is were I brought up the concept that there very well be no answer to these questions I ask or contemplate.  I just got done listening to a recording of an Art Bell show where they were discussing divergent realities, that all possible things at all points in time do happen, and each of those different outcomes diverge into their own realities which then them selves split so that all possibilities exist in an infinite number of universes.  In this scenario you cannot have an answer as to what will happen to us in the future because there is the possibility that all possibilities will happen.

"...But Nothing is Lost:" "Nothing lasts... nothing lasts. Everything is changing into something else. Nothing's wrong. Nothing is wrong. Everything is on track. William Blake said nothing is lost and I believe that we all move on." - Terrence McKenna - Shpongle - But Nothing Is Lost