• Registered: 2005-12-20

Topic: body symbolism

Thanks to montalk I have regained posting power after login difficulties, so here goes nothing.

I had a minor epiphany the other day regarding body language  and placement of limbs in the humanoid "design".  I noticed that the mostly unconscious movements of the legs and feet seem to express the current state of the moving centre and the lower emotions.  The arms and specifically the hands generally express the current state of the intellect, mostly when speaking.  This can be seen most readily in women bouncing their legs and feet around while crossed and people talking with their hands. 

If you think about where the the legs and arms are located in relation to the chakras/centres, it would makes sense that expression through these limbs would relate to their placement within that structure.  The arms are between the heart (4th) and throat (5th), but closer to the throat.  The legs and pelvis they are attached to seem to be in direct contact locationally with at least the 1st and 2nd.  Thus the legs/feet represent the expression of moving centre/lower chakra state, and the arms/hands represent expression of current state of lower intellectual centre/throat chakra.

I had a different yet similar minor epiphany a couple of years back when studying reflexology and coming to terms with this reality being a symbolic material representation of the higher logos.  Take the hand and arm for example (the foot works the same, but is of lesser body "intelligence" than the hands).  Their are 5 digits on the hand plus the main part they are attached to (palm, backhand).  In reflexology the palm/backhand area represent the location of the major organ systems, what I refer to as the "engine".  the 5 digits represent the 5 bodies attached to the engine of the actual macro body.  The macro body contains the 5 main extremity bodies plus the main engine connecting it all.  The thumb is the head, while the 4 fingers are the arms and legs.  If you take an individual finger and compare it to the larger arm (micro to macro), the first knuckle(attached to palm) represents the shoulder, the space between 1st knuckle and 2nd knuckle represents the upper arm portion.  The 2nd knuckle represents the elbow.  The space between 2nd knuckle and 3rd represents the forearm or lower portion of arm.  the 3rd and final knuckle represents the the wrist.  Finally, the tip of the finger represents the actual hand.  The same can be transposed to the toes/feet/legs. 

Also, if the thumb is the head, we can see that the 1st knuckle represents the point of articulation at which the neck meets the main engine body.  The space between 1st knuckle and 2nd is the neck.  The 2nd knuckle is the point where the neck attaches to the head.  And finally the tip of the thumb is the actual head portion itself.

Hopefully that made some kind of sense.  Unfortunately I don't have photoshop or similar capabilities to present y'all with a handy dandy diagram, so you 're going to have to use your visualization abilities to "see" it. 

These are just thoughts of mine but no one I have presented them to yet has seen a flaw in the my system. Hopefully if there is one you all will be more apt and quick to point them out than most regular folks.


body esoterica rocks my world
-
In objective L/L,
Poffo

  • Registered: 2006-01-03

Re: body symbolism

an intriguing idea for sure seemingly connecting the relevance of our humanoid design to the hyperdimensional chakra structure.  as good an explanation as any for translation of body movement to internal emotion or feeling.

..:never submit---
  • montalk
  • montalk
  • forum-keeper-upper
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  • Registered: 2004-03-24

Re: body symbolism

Makes sense, and the numbering and placement of the joints in fingers and thumb really supports that idea. There is beauty in self-similarity. Makes you wonder about higher orders of similarity, like what the human form itself is but a lower order expression of. Another thing that came to mind - the tails of animals. I read that cats have a chakra on the tips of their tails...maybe that's true.

Acquiring fringe knowledge is like digging for diamonds in a mine field.

montalk's Website

  • Registered: 2005-12-20

Re: body symbolism

Montalk, personally I tend to go with the idea that the humanoid structure is the material animalized version of the creator archetype.   We are creators by design, but because of TPTB keeping this knowledge away from the masses we have forgotten our true creative potential beyond that of just physical procreation.  We're now learning firsthand that we do create our own realities, even if there are more factors than simply our own individuated mind/emotions being involved.  In the density model, at 3rd we are supposed to be learning to recognize the god/ess that we are individually and within the larger whole.  It's been observed that higher mammals, especially primates exhibit characteristics of pure wonderment and awe at things like waterfalls and natural phenomena unrelated to direct survival.  The difference I think is that they wonder, but they can't really do much past that because of how tied to the material consciousness they are, much like a souled human who has yet to "wake up".  So at the end of the 3D octave when we have learned that we are creators and the created, at that point we can really start to work on love which seems to be the prerequisite for 4D(love density) experience.  Therein lies the 3D situated "choice" of STS or STO, because up until the point of god realization we exhibit behaviors that can fit into both categories, keeping us in a state of flux as far as a permanent left or right hand path into the realm of love. 

I forgot something else once realized about the placement of the eye and ear reflex/accu points on the hands/feet.  All hand/arm examples can be used with the legs/feet in mind. The reflex for eyes and ears lie right at the bottom of the four fingers at the webbing in between.  The eyes are located at the web between the index and middle finger going as far as the midway point of the web between middle and ring fingers.  The ears are located at the web between the pinky and ring finger to the midway point between ring and middle.  Picture the vulcan hand salute. 

Based on this info, and on the idea that the fingers represent the limbs, I figured out that the first two fingers (index/middle) represent the arms specifically, and the last two (ring/pinky) represent the legs.  This is based on my personal observation that without eyes you would "see" with your hands through physical sensation input.  Without ears you would "hear" through your feet running up your legs into body to be vibrationally "felt" and thus "heard".  You may notice that the first two fingers are more intelligent than the last two and can move more independantly of each other than the last two which are very connected.  This makes sense if you consider the relationship of "body intelligence" between the arms/legs.  In this model, the arms as mentioned in the first post are representative of a the intelligent expression of the human form.  The legs are what we balance on and what grounds us physically and energetically to the earth/mother/feminine aspect of creation.  They allow us to traverse the physical world.  The last two fingers (representing the legs) if you move one, the other moves.  They are less independant and have less dextrous utility for the hand unit.  The foot or hand at the end of each limb is the end result of the purpose of the limb itself and embodies the intelligence of the limb.  While some may have great dexterity with their feet through practice, in most people the feet are less able to be employed in skilled tasks than the hands which do all of the intelligent work.  Please not that I'm not putting a greater or lesser importance on either limbs, just denoting the way they reflect the two energies of creation respectively.

Something else.  If you take the 5 extremity bodies plus the unifying engine body you have 6.  The complete physical being would be a 7, in the same way that the yin-yang is actually 3 when you count the total shape (circle) plus the duality within the circle.

-

In objective L/L,
Poffo

  • Registered: 2005-12-20

Re: body symbolism

While I know this isn't a hot topic, someone may eventually benefit from it so I'll keep adding to it.  Different strokes, different folks and all.

There's something I forgot to add to the topic...

The function of digestion and the placement of the two holes involved.  I see a symbolic relationship between the act of physically eating food starting with the mouth and ending up in the toilet (or whatever your preference of placement is) and "digesting" outer concepts.  Our lower intellectual centre/5th chakra is said to reside in the throat/neck region.  Because of the closeness of the physical mouth to the throat and it's inherent connection, it would make sense to me that the act of eating is symbolic of digesting ideas.  They start in their pure or prepared form and through the various digestive stages, one ends up extracting the nutrients, aka beneficial/useful ideas, and ends up with a pile of shit or unwanted materials at the literal end of the process to be expelled back to the earth for recycling, in the region of the 1st chakra, that of material reality.  On a side note, it's also interesting that air, the other form of "food" in the fourth way system involves the mouth as well, though more appropriately controlled by the nose. 

I may be completely off my rocker, but just throwing out some observations to bounce off others or to possibly add to personal understanding if possible.  I also find it's nice to be able to get personal developing ideas out in physical form and memory for future refining.

  • Registered: 2005-12-20

Re: body symbolism

Montalk wrote:

Another thing that came to mind - the tails of animals. I read that cats have a chakra on the tips of their tails...maybe that's true.

You got me thinking....about tails, is it possible that the tail represents a sort of grounding cord as it is primarily used for balance?  Almost like the remnant of plant life (roots) carried over to the animal.  More interesting is that the human design is without a fully formed tail, perhaps symbolizing our need to learn to balance on earth without that animalized aid because of our increase in responsibility with increased awareness.

About the tail chakra thing, perhaps it would be like an extension of the root chakra......or the tail chakra thing is just new age crapola, who knows? I should ask St. Germain at the next Ascended Masters Convention....if he actually shows up this time!

7 Reply by Poffo (edited by Poffo 2006-10-12 22:30:14)

  • Registered: 2005-12-20

Re: body symbolism

*BUMP!*

I've got a question and I need an answer or I fear I may perish in the uncertainty!

Lately I've been contemplating the symbolic relevance of facial hair on men and the lack of it on women.  I have no theories as of yet but am totally open to anyone elses if they have one.

Back when my paradigm contained much more evolutionary materialist slant I had considered that a beard, especially with the colour change of mid-age would be nature's way of identification or a type of branding because of the variations in colour difference and growth patterns....perhaps related to telling other tribes apart or something.  I don't think I buy that anymore and now that I have taken to seeing all things symbolically, a material reflection and manifestation of the higher logos, this question has been nagging me.  It may seem very unimportant in the long run and when compared to other lines of research but I believe that it helps a great deal to understand the symbols that we are faced with everyday as part of our genetic makeup and expression.  I love exploring higher concepts but at the same time I think it is necessary (for me anyway) to understand the material world and its expressions while I'm here.  Thanks for your time!

  • From: Brazil
  • Registered: 2006-02-11

Re: body symbolism

montalk wrote:

I read that cats have a chakra on the tips of their tails...maybe that's true.

I read somewhere that our feet have some minor chakra or energy point 
used to ground us, but it is not much active/developed  in the actual man.
I think it is true as be bare foot over the grass helps the energy exchange
like in the sun gazing(very first sun rays in the morning) or shaman stuff. 

Poffo wrote:

*BUMP!*
I've got a question and I need an answer or I fear I pay perish in the uncertainty!
Lately I've been contemplating the symbolic relevance of facial hair on men and the lack of it on women.  I have no theories as of yet but am totally open to anyone elses if they have one.

I do not know, maybe to make man even uglier than it is already... big_smile
BTW, very interesting theories you have!

Bye, Pictus

--------------------
http://pictus.co.nr

Pictus's Website

  • From: I have no idea
  • Registered: 2006-09-12

Re: body symbolism

facial hair -
Possibly some importance of non-living organic material growing out of the 5th chakra area of the throat/mouth area..
With this in mind, is it "wrong" to shave it off?
I don't know.. just throwin somethin out there for you.
As to why it doesn't occur on women... 'cause a chick with a mustache would be sick? Just kiddin..

  • From: Brazil
  • Registered: 2006-02-11

Re: body symbolism

What about bald guys and crown chakra ? big_smile

BTW, I do not know for how long there will be hair in my head... lol

Bye, Pictus

--------------------
http://pictus.co.nr

Pictus's Website

  • Registered: 2005-12-20

Re: body symbolism

Baron wrote:

Possibly some importance of non-living organic material growing out of the 5th chakra area of the throat/mouth area..
With this in mind, is it "wrong" to shave it off?

Not sure about what that importance would be, but it's interesting that body hair in general for men and women really picks up with puberty.  Does pubic hair have something to do with reproduction.  Remember I'm talking about symbolic meaning here, not the actual physiological reasoning behind it.  Do other animal bodies have similar functions or is it associated only with the human animal?

Although I doubt any "wrongness" associated with shaving, I have questioned why men choose to go clean shaven, essentially making themselves resemble pre-pubescent boys, even as old men.  I guess it depends on social standards/expectations and has a lot to do with the preferences of the women that they seek.  In a society based increasingly more on sex, and one where body hair is considered dirty, it would make sense for men to feel compelled to not grow a beard.  It's getting to the point where because of media influence there are women who can only date guys with no chest hair.  The reverse exists where men have a phobia of female armpit and leg hair.....funny how we can be so disgusted with natural features.  Reminds me of the circumcision debate and the minor role that female preference can play in that, where due to social conditioning and acceptance of abnormal practices, there are women that prefer a man being cut and view uncircumcised penises as abnormal.  Now I'm just going off toic, he he....

As far as beards go, I want to know it's symbolic relevance because it may help shed some light on the differences and ultimately similarities between the feminine and masculine aspects of creation.

Pictus wrote:

What about bald guys and crown chakra ?

Hmmmm, well I read somewhere that.......he he, actually I have no idea!

Pictus wrote:

I read somewhere that our feet have some minor chakra or energy point 
used to ground us,

I believe that this is true based on my research thus far and logic.  Makes sense to me considering the symbolic relevance of the legs and feet in the microcosmic body.  I may get into this further in a future thread on grounding and the energy body, when I have time to compile my research.

---

I know this may be a weird topic here folks, but I think there is much to be learned from understanding the very symbolic nature of our being in 3D.  I appreciate any input and am happy to help people see the body differently if I can.  Thanks for your time and attention.

12 Reply by seatrout (edited by seatrout 2006-10-14 05:03:25)

  • Registered: 2006-10-09

Re: body symbolism

I know that for lions their mane dosen't come in until they reach puberty. It would interesting to know how body posture reflects what's going on inside of someone.

  • From: closer to god
  • Registered: 2005-03-06

Re: body symbolism

OK, well where do i begin....?

first i want to thank Poffo for starting this thread, as it contains some stimulating and "hair"-raising ideas. (heh...he...)

so the main idea of the thread dealing with the reflexology of the macro/micro systems of the body sounds to me about as solid as it gets.  the symmetries are there joint for joint and i've read enough of the acupunture/meridian stuff to support that idea.

The human "chakra problem" started when we lost our tails lo those many millions of years ago.

Animals with tails, you see, have chakras all the way to the ends of their tails. The tails serve as "antennas" for the cosmic energies we are immersed in at all times. Animals absorb beneficial energies through their crown chakras at the tops of their heads and release whatever they want through their tails--anger, contentment, indifference, whatever.

When animals sleep, they wrap their tails around their bodies, thereby surrounding themselves with a field of beneficial and protective energy. Humans, having lost this "beneficial tail energy capability," always feel a need for snuggling and cuddling, because they no longer have tails to cuddle themselves with. For this reason, humans prefer to snuggle and cuddle with each other whenever possible.

this is just something i found that sounds reasonable concerning the tail chakra subject. it certainly sounds plausible to me, esp. the point about strong emotions flowing down the central channel and finding expression through the movement of the tail. anyone with a cat will def. see the connections here and even dogs, horses, and the annoyed swatting of most larger four-leggers will provide substantive proofs in the direction.

**Poffo--since you've mentioned the fourth way already, i will also note on the topic of tales that in gurdjieff's work, "beelzebub's tales to his grandson" that the titular protagonist in a very comical way reveals certain emotions through the description of his tail throughout the story-telling. very interesting that one so initiated in the esoteric schools would see himself(?) as having a tail....**

next, on the subject of the minor chakra points on the feet. i will add my small bit of knowledge here as well. the palms of the hands and the soles of the feet contain symmetrical chakras of minor energy transfer compared to those situated along the central channel. in each pair, one of the chakras will spiral energy outward and the other will suck energy into the arms and flow to rest of the system. this transversal energy system can supplement meditation practices by placing the hands palm down on the knees and allowing the current to circle through the heart chakra, blending energies contained and maintained in energetic fields other than the central channel.

NEAT TRICK!!
this is something anyone can try and see what you think! one of my movement teachers showed me this when i didn't understand this concept at first. so, one can actually SEE THE PALM CHAKRA after you have had sufficient prana/chi flow or even at rest if your whole system flows sufficiently clear. just open your hand and splay the fingers out so that you feel a sucking feeling in the center of your palm. well, it's more like a cupping of the palm, but as long as you feel a sucking in the palm and energy coming out the back of your hand, you should see on the palm (using third-eye, soft-focus) a circle of discoloration sometimes whiter, sometimes redder. whatever the color though, i was personally blown away at how i could actually manifest an outward change in my energy system!!!

now let's talk about the whole hair thing.  first a couple of articles you might find worth a look-see:

http://www.popmatters.com/columns/thomson/060321.shtml
http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/ … i_72272587
very helpful: http://www.answers.com/topic/beard

so that should hit pretty much all the symbolism of facial hair throughout the ages.  but i will say here on a personal note, i would have to say that beards for me usually have the significance of a hermit or anti-societal person. rebellion and barbarism. now, this leads me to think about how men only became the bearers of this particular stigma.  perhaps, this reflects a fundamental dichotomy between the energies of man and woman. a man with a beard has the advantage of intimidating younger males certainly, and garnering more respect from other males with less facial hair. this would contribute early on to tribes and factions splitting apart and perhaps men with more "wild" ideas could use the beard to pull other males with him and start a new, possibly more advanced, society. of course the women, following the men for their usefulness as hunters and as partners would have no use for this biological indicator of age/rank/development since the female energy--as opposed to the males' loner/fragmenting vibe--consists of a more cohesive, drawing together type energy which a family/tribal framework depends on to a great degree.

there is also that more darwin-ish linear evolution slant that women have no beards cause when tribes would fight, the males needed a way to identify the females so they could take them and breed with them. naturally, the hairier women would be mistaken more often for males and thus killed. hence some kind of weening out of the hairy females of homo sapiens over thousands of years.     bullocks.

anywho, just thought i'd chime in on one of the few threads that i actually seem to have something to contribute! i find most of the other ones terrribly complicated for me. i mean who really knows about all this STS/pod people stuff? way over my head neutral

cheers!

"We must be the change we wish to see in the world."
                                       --Mohandas 'Mahatma' Ghandi

Man as he is now is asleep.  In order to change, we must first awaken.
                                       --Georges Ivanovich Gurdjieff
  • Registered: 2005-12-20

Re: body symbolism

pulsar wrote:

so the main idea of the thread dealing with the reflexology of the macro/micro systems of the body sounds to me about as solid as it gets.  the symmetries are there joint for joint and i've read enough of the acupunture/meridian stuff to support that idea.

Ok, cool, so I'm not crazy!  I think....

pulsar wrote:

The human "chakra problem" started when we lost our tails lo those many millions of years ago.

Animals with tails, you see, have chakras all the way to the ends of their tails. The tails serve as "antennas" for the cosmic energies we are immersed in at all times. Animals absorb beneficial energies through their crown chakras at the tops of their heads and release whatever they want through their tails--anger, contentment, indifference, whatever.

When animals sleep, they wrap their tails around their bodies, thereby surrounding themselves with a field of beneficial and protective energy. Humans, having lost this "beneficial tail energy capability," always feel a need for snuggling and cuddling, because they no longer have tails to cuddle themselves with. For this reason, humans prefer to snuggle and cuddle with each other whenever possible.

this is just something i found that sounds reasonable concerning the tail chakra subject.....

Just wondering where you found this and if you could possible provide the link...

pulsar wrote:

next, on the subject of the minor chakra points on the feet. i will add my small bit of knowledge here as well. the palms of the hands and the soles of the feet contain symmetrical chakras of minor energy transfer compared to those situated along the central channel. in each pair, one of the chakras will spiral energy outward and the other will suck energy into the arms and flow to rest of the system. this transversal energy system can supplement meditation practices by placing the hands palm down on the knees and allowing the current to circle through the heart chakra, blending energies contained and maintained in energetic fields other than the central channel.

I believe that Robert Bruce supports this idea in his NEW (New Energy Ways) system of energy body manipulation/stimulation, in regards to minor chakras on palms/soles. 

Quick clarification.....Are you saying that there are a pair of minor chakras in EACH palm/sole, or that there is a pair for the pair of hands/feet?


pulsar wrote:

now let's talk about the whole hair thing.  first a couple of articles you might find worth a look-see:

http://www.popmatters.com/columns/thomson/060321.shtml
http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/ … i_72272587
very helpful: http://www.answers.com/topic/beard

Thanks for the links. I'll check 'em out when I'm done my 3 day workweek.  Working 12 hr. shifts doesn't provide much time for forum reading/replying between work and sleep sad

pulsar wrote:

....on a personal note, i would have to say that beards for me usually have the significance of a hermit or anti-societal person. rebellion and barbarism.....

This is definately a part of the modern western paradigm, whereas 150 years ago you were a freak if you didn't have at least some type of facial hair.  There's a guy at work that has a really big beard, bald on top with a ring of long hair on the sides.  He looks like a neanderthal type from afar, with a really distant look in his eyes.  I had to work with him one day and found out that he is actually quite conscious of the control system, at least in the material sense with the rule of corporations and such.  He's a really nice guy person to person but has an overriding distain for the company and all of its rules and procedures.  Looking the way he does in modern society is definately a way to be visibly rebellious to the standard cleancut look, especially featured in the ruling class of the corporate world (management, white collar workers).


pulsar wrote:

...men only became the bearers of this particular stigma.  perhaps, this reflects a fundamental dichotomy between the energies of man and woman...[cut]...the female energy--as opposed to the males' loner/fragmenting vibe--consists of a more cohesive, drawing together type energy...

I had thought of something like this before when contemplating the beard question.  Also, Baron wrote before about the possible importance of it being located in the region of the 5th chakra/lower intellectual centre (where else could it be really?).  If hair, besides the aspect of warmth, is considered as an extension of the sensory organ of skin (hair standing up from fear/excitement), it may be related to the positive/active role of the masculine energy/aspect of the universe as a symbolic extension of the skin in that area.  Pre-pubescent children, regardless of physical gender, basically only exhibit their future post-pubescant physical potential development through the difference in genitals and unusable reproductive system, and the genitals at that point are only for the function of waste removal.  They are almost androgynous until the physical differentiation of puberty into adulthood.  If the masculine aspect of the universe is 1 (penis/active/consciousness) and the feminine is 0 (vagina/passive/matter), and the 1 represents the unity of consciousness going into the contained void of unrealized potential of the 0, it would follow that girls become rounded (0) and boys become more angular (1) in puberty.  Males grow beards in this time period, perhaps as a symbolic expression of the "consciousness" or intellectual function of creation, the masculine aspect, while females become more rounded and fertile (beautiful/attractive), the feminine aspect.  The combination of both forces resulting in the impregnation of the material world with consciousness.  The beard is an exclusive trait of the neck and face (throat - mouth) where the intellectual expression happens (in conjunction with arms/hands just below neck).

I apologize in advance if this offended anyone as that wasn't the point.  While I am male, I am quite far from being a "man's man" and would be glad to explain my position in more detail.

pulsar wrote:

there is also that more darwin-ish linear evolution slant that women have no beards cause when tribes would fight, the males needed a way to identify the females so they could take them and breed with them. naturally, the hairier women would be mistaken more often for males and thus killed. hence some kind of weening out of the hairy females of homo sapiens over thousands of years.     bullocks.

I agree.  Although, as far as the animal and tribalistic aspect of our physical self goes it does seem valid to have the beard as an identifying feature, especially considering that men as a general rule are the hunters/warriors in that setup, though there are always exceptions.

pulsar wrote:

anywho, just thought i'd chime in on one of the few threads that i actually seem to have something to contribute! i find most of the other ones terrribly complicated for me. i mean who really knows about all this STS/pod people stuff? way over my head neutral

I appreciate your participation in the thread pulsar.  It's kind of my baby on this forum smile  It's definately not for everyone, but I think some people may get something out of it and perhaps make a contribution to help refine these ideas.

While I see that you are in a place of confusion and uncertainty regarding the "STS/pod people" topics, I hardly think they are WAY over your head, but probably just resting a few centimetres above it smile  While I am no authority on these subjects, I am a lifelong student of observation regarding my fellow "humans" and would be glad to help you with anything you're having difficulty with.  Send me an email if you want.  My inbox is always open, he he.

  • From: Brazil
  • Registered: 2006-02-11

Re: body symbolism

Pulsar, I saw the links and bearded ladys, what a ugly view!
Girls who use anabolic steroids will gain muscles and sometimes hair
in the face, I saw one that did...
If the upper body part is so hairy, imagine the lower ones lol

BTW, I have a constant tingling in the middle of both palms
(a bit stronger on the left) and a bit in the middle of both feet
soles, the tingling in the 3 eye is also +- constant too and this
all 5 tingling points have some kind of tingle synchronism between them.

Bye, Pictus

--------------------
http://pictus.co.nr

Pictus's Website