16 Reply by Solar_Sphinx (edited by Solar_Sphinx 2005-06-01 02:06:42)

  • Solar_Sphinx
  • Solar_Sphinx
  • Gone, gone, gone beyond, utterly gone beyond...
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  • Registered: 2005-03-09

Re: Magickal Invocations

*lol* Looks like we have the same problem then, Dreamosis. The word "God" is exactly the invocation I would use, if I would want to summon a geriatric cloud-clothed giant-bearded incontinent patriarchic creator-god;)

That's why I have come to the conclusion that it is better not to use any of those "tainted" words at all, and throw away everything that has to do with christianity. I try to find traditions that may be like 30-40% lies and the rest truth, instead of the 80-90% lies as might be the case with christianity.;)


The thing is, I have been studying the history of religions for some time at the university, mainly to try to find some truth in 'em. But now I feel that that is a very hard, almost impossible thing to do. I have been leaning more towards gnostic streams of thought, but even in gnosticism there are hopeless unagreement and hundreds of versions of the ultimate truth. I'm thinking about studying psychology of religions instead, just to find the truth of the individual instead, and ignore the objective all-encompassing dogmatic truths.


It's like, when you study and see that almost everything is various traditions, sometimes adjusting themselves due to social or economic conditions in history, is just a combination of other older traditons you get kinda disillusioned. Like the genesis-story, that has soo many parallels throughtout the world. Yahweh making lands out of the sea etc, really has it's roots in similar older versions of Baal defeating Yam, or Marduk killing Tiamat and Apsu etc. And initially, it all may come down to the fact that some folks wanted to descibe some natural processes of life and death.
The story of Jesus and his twelve disciples is nothing more than the story of the sun and it's yearly course in the zodiac etc. There are many examples of solar heros, or vegetation heros that dies and gets resurrected again in spring etc. Another interpretation of biblical stories is that they are all allegories, in truth esoteric mathematical/geometrical riddles that may express something true after all... (really recommend David Fideler's "Jesus Christ: Sun of God" and the site http://www.jesus8880.com/)


Also, not everything has to be black or white. Just because the most material of the Jesus-story has older parallels, doesn't mean that everything is a fake either.  Just because there many times may be social reasons for creating the "divine" rules, doesn't mean that there may not be some good advice to be found in the world of religion. It's just that to me, the amount of truth to be found in christianity is way to small in proportion to the lies, and the job it takes to dig out that small percentage of truth just doesmakes it "healthier" to give it up all together, not using words with christian "flavor" (chri-stained words;))


The problem is: are there any "pure" (non-programming) words at all, even outside of a christian context? I doubt it. I guess one has to accept the fact that the closest thing to truth one can get in this dimension is to use no words at all, turning to silence. But then, how can you share this with fellow beings? We are, after all, social beings, and sharing experiences/opinions is vital to living a happy life. That's what the Montalk-forum is for:) Of course, one can share the company of another person without saying anything, but I think you get my point.

Also, I have met really wonderful people who call themselves christian, so I am definitely not saying there is something wrong with someone who feels good about labelling him/herself as that.
Before I sometimes thought that (most of) the christians didn't have a clue to what was going on behind the scenes. But honestly, right now, I'm mostly disgusted (at least tired of) with esoteric complicated systems and secret agendas and conspiracies. Right now I really feel that the most important things is Love, "simple and clean", no matter how cheesy it sounds. Doesn't mean that many have really experienced what true unconditional love is. But as long as everyone is making the best of what the've got, feeling love to the best of their abilities, even without knowledge of other worlds and occult stuff (the occult and conspirational world etc is a sphere filled with just as many lies as the ordinary one, in my opinion, just that the lies might be more exciting;)), does it really matter in what context that love expresses itself?   



Maybe "Pickle" is as close as we get to the source of Divine Love.
I sure made me laugh, and humor is what the creation is all about to me.
What is humor but not Cosmic Love dressed up in an earth clown's suit? smile


All the best

"...Manjushri said: 'I think that when you can[not] speak of any event, when you neither indicate nor know anything, [and] pass beyond questions and answers, this is to enter gate of oneness. Sir, now please tell us how a bodhisattva enters the gate of oneness.'
And Vimalakirti kept silent, and did not say a word..."

Solar_Sphinx's Website

  • Registered: 2004-08-19

Re: Magickal Invocations

dreamosis wrote:

I am going to try this exercise, Unbidden.  It speaks to me.  "Locate keys..."

Everybody (esp. Roald Dahl) knows that incantations work better when pronounced backwards: Etacol Syek!

dreamosis wrote:

For me, it is nigh impossible to use even the word "God" without the image of a whiterobed, geriatric with a long beard.

Sounds like the wise old man archetype (Odhinn, St. Nicholas, Gandalf, Obi-Wan Kenobi, ..).

Furthermore I agree that intention, not sound/vibration is the dominant factor in an invocation. However, vibrations do resonate with their likes, so personally I wouldn't use the word Yahweh ever in an invocation. In my opinion, soundless invocations (pure intention) are the safest. Even if you have no intention of invoking an STS entity, if Yahweh happens to be the name of one, it will surely come take a look if you shout its name across the galaxy.

  • Registered: 2005-03-07

Re: Magickal Invocations

Aprogas wrote:

... personally I wouldn't use the word Yahweh ever in an invocation. In my opinion, soundless invocations (pure intention) are the safest. Even if you have no intention of invoking an STS entity, if Yahweh happens to be the name of one, it will surely come take a look if you shout its name across the galaxy.

I do not plan on it.  In fact, I never have used the title "Yahweh" in an invocation, only YHVH ("Yud-Heh-Vahv-Heh").  "Yahweh," as I understand it, is more of a (made-up) nickname--a shortened version of YHVH that was used because many of the ancient Jews believed that the name of "God" shouldn't be pronounced.  That's also why, allegedly, the Torah and Bible refer to God as "God" or "Lord."

I have decided to abandon its use--and use, instead, my own English words for the Divine One (like "Divine One").  I'm also rather comfortable with "Om."

You can't change a tiger's stripes,
but you can avoid its teeth.
  • From: sw tz rl nd
  • Registered: 2004-03-25

Re: Magickal Invocations

Positive entities do not need emotional/devotional rituals ever because, unlike negative entities, they generate their own energy. They'll help in an invisible way as long as you are in a sincere quest for truth.

ermolai's Website

  • From: Vicenza, Italy
  • Registered: 2006-10-05

Re: Magickal Invocations

In the qabalah the tetragrammaton symbolizes four elements of manifestation and the four worlds (something akin to the concept of densities;in descending order: Archetypal world, Creative world, Formative world and World of Manifestation) and much else besides.

In western qabalistic magic the letter shin (symbolizing spiritual fire, or the vedic agni) is dropped in the midst of the elements giving a cabalistic rendition of Jesus as spirit brought into matter to redeem it. (yeheshuah spelt Y-H-Sh-V-H; which is not the correct hebrew spelling of the name of Jesus).

Qabalistic use of symbolism renders a rather gnostic viewpoint if you take the time to look at it; that is, the way qabalah is used in western esotericism. Adequate use of sophism can of course allow one to use qabalism to demonstrate any precept.

An important thing is never to use any name, formula, etc without knowing why it's part of the practice and seeing how it fits in. It's meaning should not be vague or lacking in depth to you. The whole idea of qabalistic magic is to have a rich symbolic vocabulary, full of correlations that are sublimated when you use the symbols in ritual.

The correspondences contained in the name vibrated are known but not actively thought when one is involved in ritual, allowing the subconcious to lock in on the complete list.  Kind of like a musician playing a well known song doesn't actually think all the notes as if it were reading them.

Another concept is that of entities and what one is doing in ritual. An invocation can take a devotional tone, but the modern magician has a concept of symbols, archetypes and parts of the human psyche that leaves the question open as to what's being interfaced.

It's not at all like the channeling mindset of finding "something out there" or "on the other side".

The magician has a certain set of concepts tied to what it invokes, evokes or visits in vision, such as the "fiery part of air" in the case of XaGiSaDa, the enochian kerub, or the "intelligence of venus" (astrologically, not some dude on the planet) in the case of the qabalistic angel HaGIEL or "the perversion (qlipoth) of aries" in the case of Ba'aIRIVN.

And about using "tainted" words.. "God" has been used by many in many languages to mean many different concepts. When Socrates spoke of Theon and Daimon they were both good things, for example.

My advice would be to broaden your concept base if certain words have  taken on a bitter taste in your mouth via observing religious hypocrisy. Read things that don't fall into the stereotype, for despite popular belief there is quite a lot.

It worked for me... and if you don't, you've let them steal an entire word from your vocabulary, to implant a concept irrevocably. If words are indeed powerful you cannot permit that. Remember 1984 and newspeak.

Be your own sysadmin. Compile your own OS.

Love is the law, love under will.
   
     Zejith Themis
      .:420-510:.
    FIAT IUSTITIA
    RUAT COELUM

Zejith_Themis's Website

  • Registered: 2006-06-28

Re: Magickal Invocations

Hi


ZT wrote

"My advice would be to broaden your concept base if certain words have  taken on a bitter taste in your mouth via observing religious hypocrisy."



Hi ZT, this would describe me.  I have taken to calling on "all the goodness in the universe", I don't want to confuse anyone out there. yikes

When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace. Jimi Hendrix 

22 Reply by Zejith_Themis (edited by Zejith_Themis 2006-10-11 05:43:44)

  • From: Vicenza, Italy
  • Registered: 2006-10-05

Re: Magickal Invocations

The idea is that you're not calling on something completely unknown "out there" in invocation. The gnostics had a definite mythological cosmology behind their concept of ultimate divinity; it was the pleroma (fullness). This would be the "ain soph aur" (limitless light) for the qabalists and "7th density" for the cassiopaeans.

IHVH is considered a formula in magick, and not identified with either the idea of a cartoonish patriarchal iovian demiurge or with an 'entity' that can be communicated with as such. No little grey named "yaweh" in a flying saucer on a column of fire.

It is considered a formula of manifestation of the universe and therefore of the demiurge in a sense, but not the manichean one. It is recognized that truth is above and beyond the reach of the manifest, the realm of the demiurge, yet here we are.

And to get onto the internet you need to "dial out", no?

One magic/qabalistic 'dissassembly' of the term is:

Y (yud): father (king) (fire) archetypal world
H (hè): mother (queen) (water) creative world
V (waw): son (prince/knight) (aire) formative world
H (hè): daughter (princess/page) (earth) material world

And so a formula of completion and manifestation, not a comic-book character. Religion, to become a system of control for people, gets dumbed down considerably.

Just think of how the wisdom of the founding fathers compares to current day jingoism. The author of "Common Sense" spins in his grave...

Love is the law, love under will.
   
     Zejith Themis
      .:420-510:.
    FIAT IUSTITIA
    RUAT COELUM

Zejith_Themis's Website