1 Topic by skyblue (edited by skyblue 2006-10-06 06:57:25)

  • Registered: 2006-09-14

Topic: The horror of HR 6166

Non-US military personnel now have more rights than US citizens! This is the ultimate slap in the face by our government. Every soldier who has ever "fought the enemy for our freedoms" has been betrayed in a way that can hardly be described in words:

As I'm sure everyone is aware, according to the new American law HR 6166, the United States can call virtually anyone an "unlawful enemy combatant" and detain them indefinitely and/or kill them.

Jeff Rense and Alex Jones discussing HR 6166: http://www.yousendit.com/transfer.php?a … 3517579577

Please read HR 6166: http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin … eh.txt.pdf

I've studied the law and it says in Section 948d part b: "Military commissions under this chapter shall not have jurisdiction over lawful enemy combatants."

It turns out that to be exempt from HR 6166 (i.e. to be called a lawful enemy combatant and thus have any rights at all), you must be:

(A) a member of the regular forces of a State party engaged in hostilities against the United States;
(B) a member of a militia, volunteer
corps, or organized resistance movement belonging to a State party engaged in such hostilities, which are under responsible command, wear a
fixed distinctive sign recognizable at a distance, carry their arms openly, and abide by the law of war; or
(C) a member of a regular armed force
who professes allegiance to a government engaged in such hostilities, but not recognized by the United States.

Section 948d part b (in full): "Military commissions under this chapter shall not have jurisdiction over lawful enemy combatants. Lawful enemy combatants who violate the law of war are subject to chapter 47 of this title. Courts-martial established under that chapter shall have jurisdiction to try a lawful enemy combatant FOR ANY OFFENSE MADE PUNISHABLE BY THIS CHAPTER."

You can read the nice, humane, chapter 47 here: http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/10/ch47.html

Meanwhile, EVERYONE (in the world) except non-US military personnel is subject to being detained, tortured, and/or killed for ANY REASON. According to HR 6166, you are presumed guilty when you are charged. You will get a trial, but, even if you're found innocent they can continue to detain you indefinitely.

Compare THAT to good old chapter 47:

(c) Before a vote is taken on the findings, the military judge or the president of a court-martial without a military judge shall, in the presence of the accused and counsel, instruct the members of the court as to the elements of the offense and charge them–
(1) that the accused must be presumed to be innocent until his guilt is established by legal and competent evidence beyond reasonable doubt;
(2) that in the case being considered, if there is a reasonable doubt as to the guilt of the accused, the doubt must be resolved in favor of the accused and he must be acquitted;
(3) that, if there is a reasonable doubt as to the degree of guilt, the finding must be in a lower degree as to which there is no reasonable doubt; and
(4) that the burden of proof to establish the guilt of the accused beyond reasonable doubt is upon the United States.

Therefore, non-US military personnel have FAR FAR more rights (I've only scratched the surface here) than American citizens now.

My grandfather "fought for freedom" in World War 2, there are thousands of American soldiers "fighting for freedom" today. We must inform every US soldier about this, IT MAKES EVERYTHING THAT THEY'RE DOING THE BIGGEST FARCE IN THE WORLD.

I've tried to understand why non-US soldiers have been chosen to be the only people in the world to have any rights. I can see an obvious reason why they did this. Can you imagine if it were legal for the USA to just detain and kill off any other country's standing army? The rest of the world would be forced to take action to protect itself, to protect their people against aggression by the USA. Otherwise, every other nation on the planet would be in the exact same situation that all of us individuals are in: no rights and no way to protect themselves.

Another key point about this is that governments look at their military people like chattel property. The government literally owns military people and I'm sure that this has something to do with all this. A government wouldn't be too happy about another government just taking its property any time it felt like it. Of course, a lot of governments look at all their citizens as their chattel property, so wouldn't they care of any of them were stolen away in the way that HR 6166 allows for? Any thoughts on this?

Related articles:
http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/la- … -rightrail
http://balkin.blogspot.com/2006/09/imag … sfeld.html
http://www.rawstory.com/news/2006/The_N … _0927.html

  • From: the mine
  • Registered: 2005-11-15

Re: The horror of HR 6166

They're only expounding on a precedent that has existed for over 70 years, they are not just now taking away freedom, they are simply removing any illusion of freedom we might have enjoyed. For more on this, and how police will be exempted, see
http://www.rense.com/general73/stt.htm

What a convenient way to start filling up those daycamps, as well as some kind of outbreak having to be quarantined, or a state of emergency would be.
http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/ma … ricans.htm

It's beginning to come together, all the fragments of servile legislation.

Fun stuff.

"I hate dreaming. because when you want to sleep, you want to sleep. Dreaming is work. Next thing you know I have to build a go-kart with my ex landlord"
-The late Mitch Hedberg
  • Registered: 2006-09-14

Re: The horror of HR 6166

transient wrote:

They're only expounding on a precedent that has existed for over 70 years, they are not just now taking away freedom, they are simply removing any illusion of freedom we might have enjoyed. For more on this, and how police will be exempted, see
http://www.rense.com/general73/stt.htm

I read that article but I don't see the connection. HR 6166 is very clear and it doesn't mention anything about police being exempted. Bush could decide to exempt police though.

4 Reply by transient (edited by transient 2006-10-06 05:09:34)

  • From: the mine
  • Registered: 2005-11-15

Re: The horror of HR 6166

skyblue- I should have said.... how the police 'may' be exempted, not that they all necessarily will be exempted.

The militarization of most police forces (at least state police) has been ongoing. As that rense link points out, the gold fringed US flag has deep seeded symbolism in granting extrajudiciary powers.

What this will likely come down to is, anyone who is useful to the "Order" may be left alone, if only long enough to accomplish their dictates, then they too may end up on the other side of the barbed wire.

"I hate dreaming. because when you want to sleep, you want to sleep. Dreaming is work. Next thing you know I have to build a go-kart with my ex landlord"
-The late Mitch Hedberg
  • Registered: 2005-07-09

Re: The horror of HR 6166

skyblue, the 3 links at the end of your first post are all broken....

Anyways they can say anything they want. In order to enforce anything they have to have people willing to enforce their will for them. I see fewer and fewer people willing to partake in these absurdities. You can intend that born from their madness and the crumbling of society that new opportunities will appear for you that are beneficial in your own life and personal development. I don't think that any of this necessarily has to have some horrible impact on us.

  • Registered: 2006-09-14

Re: The horror of HR 6166

sinaptix wrote:

skyblue, the 3 links at the end of your first post are all broken....

Anyways they can say anything they want. In order to enforce anything they have to have people willing to enforce their will for them. I see fewer and fewer people willing to partake in these absurdities. You can intend that born from their madness and the crumbling of society that new opportunities will appear for you that are beneficial in your own life and personal development. I don't think that any of this necessarily has to have some horrible impact on us.

The links are fixed.

They have foreign soldiers in America who are ready to enforce this stuff, it's all planned out. These families have been at this for thousands of years, they know what they're doing.

7 Reply by lyra (edited by lyra 2006-10-06 07:25:53)

  • lyra
  • lyra
  • Naked Emperor Pointer Outer
  • Offline
  • From: my own private idaho
  • Registered: 2004-03-25

Re: The horror of HR 6166

sinaptix wrote:

Anyways they can say anything they want. In order to enforce anything they have to have people willing to enforce their will for them. I see fewer and fewer people willing to partake in these absurdities. You can intend that born from their madness and the crumbling of society that new opportunities will appear for you that are beneficial in your own life and personal development. I don't think that any of this necessarily has to have some horrible impact on us.

skyblue wrote:

They have foreign soldiers in America who are ready to enforce this stuff, it's all planned out. These families have been at this for thousands of years, they know what they're doing.

We were just talking about something along these lines several days ago here on this end.  I was pondering how "stuff" would ever be able to lock down over 350 million people, spread across such a huge expanse of land as the U.S.  The bottom line is, they won't.  BUT, that doesn't mean they wouldn't be able to get 80-90% of everybody.  America is just so huge, with enough woods/forests and mountains that it's almost impossible to be able to comb through it all.   But then again, I also wasn't taking into consideration the idea of foreign troops either.  I was thinking strictly along the lines of the American military personnel, police, and all the police puppet wanna-bes who would jump at the chance to go after their fellow countrymen that they've been programmed to believe are terrorist dissidents.  Then there's also the idea of using some sort of disease or sickness to eliminate a chunk of the population, making their job that much easier.

Then simultaneously while thinking about all this, we rented "V For Vendetta" on DVD.  Haven't seen it since it first came out in the theaters.  It was a reminder about how fear, ie, "Problem-Reaction-Soluation" works so effectively to convince a population "Why - They - Need - Us!!!" as the Chancellor in "V" bellows from the telescreen.  wink   So really, you wouldn't even *have* to forcefully go after many people or convince them to go along with absurd measures.  It's a matter of generating the fear-inducing situations that "convince" the scared population that they need this military martial-law takeover.   You know, when you really think about this sort of thing it seems so absurd and over the top that it's hard to imagine it could ever take place.  Then again, looking back at Nazi Germany, who could ever have imagined such a thing either? 

I'm still always open to the idea of probable timelines though, and that we don't have to wind up where they're trying to herd us.  Something is very, very wrong here, something desparately wants us to believe that we all are powerless, at the mercy of TPTB and we're all destined for the same fate.   What I've seen over the years, with myself and with people close to me, is that this is anything but true.  We are NOT all headed for the same fate.  And we DO have a say in where we wind up in reality.    On the outset this may sound like gross denial of what the facts are saying with regards to things like HR 6166, the Patriot Act, and all the other craziness going on, but I'm still standing firm - things are NOT what they seem to be.   We're missing some of the puzzle here.   Maybe a whole lot of the puzzle.  This is something that's been discussed around NR in various threads, the fact that "the spiritual bigger picture" and the idea of probable future timelines is NEVER mentioned in the same breath as these fear inducing conspiracy plot stories.

And, DO keep in mind that there is something very fishy about Alex Jones and Jeff Rense, two people mentioned earlier in this thread as actively discussing HR 6166.  There is a LOT to be said about Rense and Jones, won't sidetrack into it all here, but for starters, Rense apparently isn't what he presents himself as being, it's all a big lie, and Alex Jones seems to be serving somebody's agenda quite well in his overzealous emphasis on the hate and fear police state which lacks any of the spiritual component.  Both are "allowed" to do what they do because again, it's serving somebody quite well.  Again, something is very wrong here and we seem to be missing a big chunk of the puzzle.

Anyway, just random musings.  I'm not arguing for or against any of the ideas being presented here, I'm just thinking outloud, trying to imagine all possible scenarios and angles.

"Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting "Holy shit ... what a ride!"  - Anonymous
-----
"I get by with a little help from my (higher density) friends."
-----

lyra's Website

8 Reply by skyblue (edited by skyblue 2006-10-06 21:02:30)

  • Registered: 2006-09-14

Re: The horror of HR 6166

This was posted on another board. BTW, Alan Watt had exactly the same opinion about the meaning of the numbers, "SIX TO THE ONE, then you have 666."

666=the red number number of the man beast,slave to the system of man, to rely on man rather then God to survive, ect

1= in numbers I think this means you,singularity, holiness within your heart holy spirit.

6>I theorize this means " the 6 is aimed towards one "1" to destroy the holy spirit within, to destroy the persona and make one slave, to make one nothing but a number,the mark of man targeting the "1" with the agenda of man, when David numbered the people God was angry with him,

6166

66 i ASSUME THIS means as time goes on the 1 will be destroyed and 66 replaces 1 this is mark of beast, it could also mean the other 66 with one in middle represents a trap of "1" so "1" can not escape there for snared into the beast wicked web of dead, there for killing "1" either spiritually or physically. I'm not sure



-----------------> time progressing forward.
6 1 6 6
^them ^you traped ^them ^reinforced trapping

-----------------> time progressing forward.
what is left of you after being trapped and if you take thier planned mark no more "1"
666

Another interpretation:

Under HR 6166, to be a lawful enemy (and thus have any rights at all) you must wear a MILITARY MARK... This has to have major occultic significance. They don't want a free soul out there. Militaries are the epitome of group think, thought control, and the hive mind in action. Not to mention the fact that they exist to kill and destroy, which is exactly what lucifer wants.

What are military people commonly referred to as? Dogs of war (beasts), you must wear the mark of a military to be exempt from this law =

YOU MUST WEAR A MARK OF THE BEAST TO BE EXEMPT FROM HR 6166 and thus have any rights at all!

What do you think about the name of the bill, "HR 6166"? A lot of people feel that the true mark of the beast number should be 616, most believe it should be 666, but this law has both! It's not a coincidence. It's either part of their game or it's a sign of the true satanic nature of this law. I believe the latter, this thing came from the pit of hell! It could even represent the fact that HR 6166 = implementation of The Mark of the Beast!

There will be national identity cards for every US citizen in 2008. That may be when HR 6166 becomes the "mark of the beast."

  • From: a booth in the midwest
  • Registered: 2004-12-05

Re: The horror of HR 6166

lyra wrote:

Something is very, very wrong here, something desparately wants us to believe that we all are powerless, at the mercy of TPTB and we're all destined for the same fate.   What I've seen over the years, with myself and with people close to me, is that this is anything but true.  We are NOT all headed for the same fate.  And we DO have a say in where we wind up in reality.    On the outset this may sound like gross denial of what the facts are saying with regards to things like HR 6166, the Patriot Act, and all the other craziness going on, but I'm still standing firm - things are NOT what they seem to be.   We're missing some of the puzzle here.   Maybe a whole lot of the puzzle.  This is something that's been discussed around NR in various threads, the fact that "the spiritual bigger picture" and the idea of probable future timelines is NEVER mentioned in the same breath as these fear inducing conspiracy plot stories.

Well said.

For the last few months now, things that I've kind of stuck into my current model of reality over the last 10-15 years as "probably true" have somehow made a strong leap to "simply got to be true".

I can't agree more about TPTB being desperate to put into our heads their version of the future so we will end up manifesting it.

I am UTTERLY CONVINCED that humanity was designed (or upgraded somehow) to create not only individual personal realities, but more importantly and more vitaly collective ones. It is our raison d'etre, it is how we will shape our destiny, It is at the very heart of our essence. TPTB know this, and they know that they MUST convince us of their future if they are to stand any chance.

The more I think about this, the more I understand that Icke is right. The ONLY way out of this is to create an alternate reality, together.

It's coming......

All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us.
  • From: Florida
  • Registered: 2004-12-23

Re: The horror of HR 6166

Aside from the point I think Alex Jones is doing his job quite well. Please inform me what this hidden agenda of Alex Jones is because there's no denying the fact that he IS revealing a lot of truth about who our political leaders really are and how the world really works through governmental means. If Alex Jones threw in anything spiritual that would throw him in a whole other category of wacko-disbelief-nuttiness to people/sheep he's trying to convince that can't even comprehend that our own government would knock down the towers so to throw in spirituality into that mess I think would just make it even harder. And his stance is clear it's very fact-based/ "I have the proof" and I don't see anything wrong with that especially for atleast giving people a tip of the ice berg type of ordeal. Once people find out about bohemian grove and rituals then they can't start finding out about the more spiritual speech givers like Icke and Michael Tsarion.

Anyways, don't think I'm trying to discredit or throw out any part of the spirituality and greater reality of existence at all. I just see it as people/sheep who are new to this have to take certain steps to realizing what we on NR know and by doing that I think Alex Jones is a great place for them, the sheep, to start but hopefuly not to end.

  • Registered: 2006-09-14

Re: The horror of HR 6166

IMHO, this is the best HR 6166 MP3 out there! This will allow you to understand the whole agenda in one hour. 

http://www.yousendit.com/transfer.php?a … 60a63a9057

These mp3s aren't bad either:

First Hour MP3:
http://www.senderberl.com/rense_jones_100206.mp3
2nd Hour MP3:
http://www.senderberl.com/rense_jones_100206_2.mp3

  • WizardT
  • Jack Of All Trades
  • Offline
  • From: Louisville, KY
  • Registered: 2006-04-04

Re: The horror of HR 6166

Lyra,
Maybe,
like Evey in V for Vendetta, once we are without fear, we will not be noticed. After all, the whole point of the disinformation is to create fear. Part of the reasoning behind HR 6166 is to create fear. If we can truly be beyond fear, we will walk among them and not be noticed, although having a place to go that is away from it all wouldn't hurt either.

WizardT

13 Reply by tomatochip (edited by tomatochip 2006-10-26 00:15:18)

  • From: Phoenix, Arizona
  • Registered: 2006-10-24

Re: The horror of HR 6166

Lyra,
I'd love more info on Jeff Rense. Alex J. 'style' is certainly in your face and can be fear generating, but for god sake, look at what he's saying! And, he's probably very correct. Still, the way he communicates will not be heard by lots of people because its simply too strident. But Jeff, although I haven't listened or visited his website in sometime, alway struck me as having a very balanced demeanor and intelligent compassion about him. Just my impressions, as I did listen to him daily for a few years. But, I don' t KNOW him. It always puzzled me how these guys can actually stay alive putting out the info they do. My conclusion is they MUST be serving the overall agenda of the elite to some degree, and playing their part unknowingly (or, perhaps, knowingly! it wouldn't be the first time people have surprised me). Other speakers of the truth are simply murdered and forgotten, right?  Well, if you can shed more light on Rense, I'd be interested. hmm

"The human mind, once expanded, can never return to it's previous proportions." - albert einstein

tomatochip's Website

  • From: Florida
  • Registered: 2004-12-23

Re: The horror of HR 6166

The only way I can see Alex Jones being a part of the agenda in any way is, and i'll explain, the way he approaches the situation. He's very beligerent, warlike etc so with this mindset and getting other people in this rebel revolution mindset where everyone starts to talk shit to police officers and FIGHT FOR YOUR RIGHTS can fall into TPTB agenda because chaos is exactly what they want. Alex Jones definitely creates a chaotic, panicy, stressful scene of everything when you're first jumping into it and so yeah. I think one of TPTB's back up plans IS for people to find out and become angry so that things can get out of hand so they can do their "order out of chaos" thing. But I think Alex Jones is also aware of that from listening to him lately. Either way, wether or not the neo-cons see him useful, I don't think Alex Jones is playing into any agenda purposeful or knowingly.