• Registered: 2006-08-17

Topic: Death metal

Hey all-This is kind of a weird topic for my first post, but I am interested in getting the opinions of people here.  For over a decade now I have had a near obsessive interest in death metal and recently, black metal(some doom as well).  My question is does this somehow contradict with my goal to cancel any contracts with negative entities?  I say this because I know that some death and black metal artists are serious practicioners of the occult, and probably channel that energy into their music.  Montalk, I read in another thread that you are a fan of Therion and Amorphis:I love these 2 bands, particularly their first few albums.  But I am concerned about how this music affects me as I listen to it every day.  At one time I believed that satanism contained answers to the problems within an oppressive, brainwashed society.
That was before I had a bad experience with a demon and learned about satanic ritual abuse.  Now I know better.  Anyways, maybe I am asking for it, because most people hate this kind of music.  But what do yall think?

  • Registered: 2006-08-05

Re: Death metal

Humbly, my opinion, is that with death/black/doom metal, you get somewhat the same imprint as Videodrome signals in the movie Videodrome. Watch this movie carefully and imagine, in place of the visual violence, the violent music you like. I see no big difference, except for the sexual bondage/sadomasochistic tendencies. Listening to violent music coheres with the "let off steam"/breaking all rules" tendencies of the STS (criminal) mind.

I am fro the oposite view as that of psychoanalysts who think that "leting off steam" is good. It reminds me more of darkness.

However, I value the Nietzschean respect for liberty, freedom towards phony morals, that a certain satanism exhibited (Lavey). However, it revels itself BS when you learn to know what is satanism really. In satanism, all the great talk about individual freedom, liberty, the superman, etc., is phony, it is in fact an open door to STS destiny.

Obsession rythmes with possession. Think about it. I felt it sometimes listening to 'nine inch nails' in my junior years. Maybe 'purging itself' is not "letting off steam" but purification of thinking, feeling and willing. Let the locus of your mind be pure and clear: even thoughts can harm and comes back karmically in destiny.

Best,

Druid

  • From: aworld w/out invisible borders
  • Registered: 2005-06-09

Re: Death metal

I myself am not a fan of that type of music - although I used to listen to In Flames.  I think it depends on which band you are listening too.  I don't know too much about each band, but for example, when I listened to in flames, I did mostly for the melodic guitar riffs.  Montalks description in the music thread about metal is very accurate.  So with moderation and a good sense of the bands intent - I see no harm in it.  But on the other hand in the mix of those many genres, there are bound to be 'dark' bands creating a dark atmosphere with their music, in my opinion.

"Beyond the stars a new world awaits me now" - Wintersun

Natural Mystic's Website

  • From: the mine
  • Registered: 2005-11-15

Re: Death metal

Welcome dunkelheit,

I avoid "death" metal in the rawest sense of the term.
I really dislike that description because it attempts to cover a certain sound with a very broad brush.

When someone refers to it as death metal they are usually talking about the sound, not the actual intent of the lyrics conveyed.

On the extreme end there are bands like Morbid Angel, Deicide, and God Dethroned.

These are some of the bands I think of when referring to "real" death metal.

I think there should be a genre called
power metal maybe, something in that vain.

I don't own anything that would really qualify for death metal, I have in the past. I think of DM as anything that goes out of the way to be negative, or
morbid.

Some are more ambiguous as far as "intent", Sepultura, King Diamond, Moonspell, and Therion. These tend to go a little either way, so to speak.

Also, for me it is a matter of personal vibrational "translation".

Montalk spoke about this, where some will get a good feeling from not necessarily "good"music, and visa versa.

As a sidenote, we get negative messages, subliminal or obvious, from gangster rap and even so called popular music, gangster rap has a markedly negative impact on me personally, even more so than some of the deathiest of the DM bands.

It is the sound itself, much moreso than the words, for me.
Slayer was one of the pioneers of DM, but I always wanted to hear a version of them without Tom Araya bleeding from the lungs.

The sound itself does carry a lot of power, positive or otherwise. Used in moderation, with proper intent, (and whether you feel it is merely the  interest, and enjoyment of, or an obsession- may be your best compass)
then it may be a conduit for your own higher learning concerning esoteric stuff. Personally I think it was/is priceless in many ways for my awareness and discernment, this genre covers topics and concepts other brands of music will not touch.

                                                         J

"I hate dreaming. because when you want to sleep, you want to sleep. Dreaming is work. Next thing you know I have to build a go-kart with my ex landlord"
-The late Mitch Hedberg

5 Reply by montalk (edited by montalk 2006-08-18 00:30:09)

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Re: Death metal

dunkelheit wrote:

My question is does this somehow contradict with my goal to cancel any contracts with negative entities?

If you listen to black metal primarily to feel the rush of demonic power and mold your lifestyle accordingly, then that is asking to be hooked by demonic forces because you like it, live it, and want it. But if what you find attractive is more the melody and rhythm, and view the philosophy or drama more as a curiosity and entertainment than anything you'd personally adopt, then it slides off with fewer consequences. I'm reminded of martial arts or boxing - violent sports but not necessarily leading to violent temperaments if approached with the right attitude.

The important thing is what part of the music you find attractive, and how deeply you assimilate its attitude, philosophy, and vibration into your regular thought patterns and feelings. What attracts you is cause for self-analysis. Seems like every human dysfunction, impulse, and archetype of experience has a corresponding style of music.

As for the vibration and intent of a band, I think that matters more than anything. Some bands play aggressive or dark music but the guys themselves are good natured, souled, and intelligent, and magically the music does not drag me down. Amorphis, Therion, Orphaned Land, and Quo Vadis are examples. Then there are others who despite being softer have a greater negative effect on my thoughts and feelings and I avoid those. And some positive popular music can ironically leave me in a negative state of annoyance at its idiotic simplicity, so I avoid those too.

Sooner or later negative music will get in the way of your higher goals and you'll feel like dropping it. You could always try going on a "music fast" for days or weeks and see if you feel any different, or figure out which ones have neutral or positive effects and then listen only to those.

Acquiring fringe knowledge is like digging for diamonds in a mine field.

montalk's Website

  • From: istanbul
  • Registered: 2004-05-13

Re: Death metal

Slayer rocks!

I don't know what dark entities think of it but I love Slayer. Especially South of Heaven era. War Ensemble is a masterpiece! (a loud one of course).

Lately I heard a new song from them named Cult. Wow! Sharp lyrics it has!

Change we must, to live again
- Jon Anderson
  • From: the mine
  • Registered: 2005-11-15

Re: Death metal

Montalk wrote:

"some positive popular music can ironically leave me in a negative state of annoyance at its idiotic simplicity"

Thats IT.  I find most of it plain insulting, it seeks to numb me with commercial life, and superficial lyrics
that have no introspection or intelligence at all- after awhile just start to lower my "alpha state".

It does depend on one's polarity somewhat, but overall pop music, for example, will drain me, quite literally.

                            J

"I hate dreaming. because when you want to sleep, you want to sleep. Dreaming is work. Next thing you know I have to build a go-kart with my ex landlord"
-The late Mitch Hedberg

8 Reply by LipstickMystic

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Re: Death metal

Sometimes listening to really intense music is helpful when I need to get completely grounded in my body and push through something, like the millions of deadlines I sometimes have to deal with!  I was experimenting just this week, sitting on top of a poopy writing deadline (poopy as in it was just, well, poopy and annoying and I had a bad attitude about it.)  I experimented with listening to high vibrational classical instrumental music, soothing ambient New Age type music, and some harder edge techno/dance stuff. Interestingly, it was the techno/dance stuff with the harder edge that helped me push through and get things done.

I think it's just extraordinary that we live in a time and place where most of us have access to such a huge range of sounds and music.  It gives us a lot of room to experiment and see what works for us, what aids us with achieving certain mental or emotional states, etc.

I can't really listen to heavily "yin" (female) soothing music when I need to do "yang" (male) stuff because it seems "off" somehow.

On the other hand, I can't meditate or do anything too "feminine" and receptive with a lot of yang influences in my environment. The worst, I think, is the blare of commericals off the TV.  I'm so glad my "roomie" doesn't watch much TV!

Dr. Emoto of Message from Water and "hado" fame discovered in his experiments with water that water molecules responded best, formed the most cohesive crystals when frozen, if classical types of music were played.  Read more about him at his site:

http://www.hado.net/index2.html

In his studies he found that synthesized music of any kind created much more chaotic forms or disjointed shapes within the water crystals.

I've found that this even applies to synthesized forms of natural instruments....so, say, for instance, that you are playing on a synthesizer that has several types of real piano synthesized, like a Steinway grand piano, a spinet, and another real piano.

Recordings made of these synthesized versions of natural instruments don't carry as nice of a vibration as listening to a recording of the actual piano being played in concert. It's like that extra layer of separation dulls the vibration somehow.

Metal music and electric guitar seem to also be kind of diluted in vibration, so they probably aren't "ideal" for listening to all the time. 

Yet I think every form of art has its place, its time, and its intended audience. And often the spiritual energy of the lyricist and players will raise the vibration, no matter what instruments are being used. It's probably - like most things - all about intent.

I think the worst is to listen to music at a live concert where the players are drugged out of their minds, because inevitably chaotic entities latch on the the performers and, in turn, seek a "loosh" harvest or try to attach to audience members.  So it's generally good to steer clear of that!

LipstickMystic aka Jennifer

  • Registered: 2005-12-20

Re: Death metal

Dunkelheit, this is an important topic to me and I think a lot of seekers.  Some of us tend to be very attracted to heavy music because it goes against the grain of "normal" society (lyrical content and music styles).  I think death/satanic metal for the most part is related to personal paradigm stagnation of those making it.  They realized that religion is corrupt, but instead of seeking out more truer spirituality they went to the complete opposite side of pure darkness and lack of consideration for life.

Due in large part to the influence of my brother, I grew up on metal, a LOT of it, from all sides of the metal spectrum.  I would say I started seriously listening to it when I was around 7 or 8, prime time for influence IMO.  I don't think it is any coincidence that at that time I was suicidal and pretty morbid. I nearly drowned in a friend's pool around that time as well.  I had an obsession with gore/horror movies and imagery.  I even remember drawing inverted crosses and pentagrams on my pencil bag in grade 4, he he.   I've come to think that perhaps "they" were attempting to "get me" from that early age. Everything seems to go back to that period in my life.  I guess a lot of my interest and identification with the really heavy stuff came as a result of being pissed off at the world for being so "seemingly" f*cked up.  At that time I was also seriously and openly questioning a lot of social issues like racism and sexism, just glad I had a decent teacher and guidance councillor, others probably would have wanted to put me on meds or lock me up or something. 

I used to really like death metal, but never really got into the doom/black metal scene.  Eventually I saw that a lot of it was just pointlessly negative and didn't do anything but make me pissed off and focus on dark shit.  A lot of my interest in metal still to this day is based on the anti-mainstream thought and the high degree of instrumentation in most metal genres.  I mean where else can you find a band writing about Gurdjieff (Therion)? That song is on a double albym called Lemuria/Sirius B for f*ck's sake!  Esoteric metal rocks!

Transient wrote:

I think there should be a genre called
power metal maybe, something in that vain.

Enter the positive side of metal!

There actually is a genre of metal called power metal!  Some of the more popular bands of that genre are Helloween, Gamma Ray, and Blind Guardian.  It is actually a genre of metal (and music in general) that is mostly devoted to freedom.  Most people think that metal is purely depressing or they think of the party oriented stuff of the 80's but I've found power metal to be a diamond in the rough, so to speak.  A lot of it can be cheesy because of the D&D element, but most of it is based on "The Quest", interplay light and dark, freedom, and tends to be very spiritually oriented.  It tends to have a lot of "happy" sounding melodies and riffs, with the usual almost punk style fast drumming, with a high degree of instrumental virtuosity.  Definately not for everyone, but listening to Gamma Ray's "Land of the Free" never fails to lift my spirits.

Another metal genre that is popularly overlooked is progressive metal.  Bands like Dream Theater, Fates Warning, Spiral Architect are good examples.  Prog Metal is what I would call "intelligent" metal.  It is probably the most complex of any metal genre and is also based on a very high degree of musicianship like nothing I've ever heard.  Also very spiritually and fringe subject oriented.

Transient wrote:

As a sidenote, we get negative messages, subliminal or obvious, from gangster rap and even so called popular music, gangster rap has a markedly negative impact on me personally, even more so than some of the deathiest of the DM bands.

I used to listen to a lot of hip hop after my interest in metal started waning in my late teens.  There are TONS of crap hip hop artists and most of them are popular and on the TV and radio at an ever increasing rate.  Even a group like Black Eyed Peas were very conscious for their first two albums, they it seems they were taken over and turned their focus to partying and sex.

The funniest part is that while gangster rap was starting to become popular in the early 90's because of the popularity of NWA the white heads of the record companies started promoting the hell of it.  This was at a time when conscious and freedom oriented hip hop was at it's highest point of popularity.  It's a shame knowing that what once started out as a brilliant new genre turned into the mass marketed drivel that is out there now and doesn't seem to be letting up.  Check out Blackalicious for modern "wanderer" hip hop, very spiritually oriented.

montalk wrote:

As for the vibration and intent of a band, I think that matters more than anything.

I couldn't agree more, I've been thinking and saying this for a while now.  Me and my brother argue about this a lot.  He tries to get me to listen to stuff that while being pretty good musically just has these ultra-negative lyrics that totally put me off.  I've found that I need to respect the people making the music to actually enjoy it.  For example, while I don't listen to them a lot anymore, I can still enjoy a Sepultura record because of the nature of the lyrical anger.  While most of it just plays into the illusion, a lot of bands anger isn't pointless and is coming from a place of utter frustration with the crazyness of present earth life.  I can enjoy music by someone that while it isn't that musically enjoyable to me it has a positive message and is coming from someone with positive intent.

I can honestly say that if it wasn't for listening to metal so early on in life I might never have questioned a lot of things growing up.  Metal tends to deal with a lot of issues related to freedom, oppression, religion, as does conscious hip hop (though for different reasons).While there is a crapload of pure darkness in the metal realm, it is also a vehicle for very enlightening music and lyrics, that stuff is just usually less popular and takes a little more digging to find.

  • From: the mine
  • Registered: 2005-11-15

Re: Death metal

Natural Mystic, do you truly consider In Flames to be DM? My opinion is they are fairly neutral.

They are a bit darkish, yes, but DM by my definition worships satan, encourages suicide, uses incantations, etc.

One of my favorite lines from the song
"drifter"-

"collect some stars to shine for you"

I am oversimplifying, but normal society's consensus seems to be that if it sounds happy, it is happy.

This is a paradox, Britney Spears may well be responsible for pushing some over the edge, I could see that happening to me....... <smirk>

Many times I've seen bands evolve away from their original image in a much more positive direction, like they ALSO figured out they were pushing someone else's agenda, and maybe this is natural progession for the artists and the fans alike.

From anger to indifference, from knowledge to conclusion, that's the best way I can think to put it. 

dunkelheit, this is your thread, would you like to add some more of your own opinions?
                                                       J

"I hate dreaming. because when you want to sleep, you want to sleep. Dreaming is work. Next thing you know I have to build a go-kart with my ex landlord"
-The late Mitch Hedberg
  • From: aworld w/out invisible borders
  • Registered: 2005-06-09

Re: Death metal

Great post everyone. 

transient, I'm actually not too familiar with the metal scene, so I wouldn't be able to classify In Flames or any band for that matter.  I actually never even *heard* their lyrics, I was mostly focusing on their intruments, and their instrumental songs we're my favorite.

Poffo wrote:

It tends to have a lot of "happy" sounding melodies and riffs, with the usual almost punk style fast drumming, with a high degree of instrumental virtuosity.

Wow!  Great description.  I know exactly what you are describing.  Those parts are very energetic, but for me, I wish that the whole song sounded like that. 

This thread has inspired me to check out some bands in this genre (Well maybe only Therion and Dread Theater) as I've liked a few of their songs in the past.

"Beyond the stars a new world awaits me now" - Wintersun

Natural Mystic's Website

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Re: Death metal

Poffo wrote:

Enter the positive side of metal!

There actually is a genre of metal called power metal!  Some of the more popular bands of that genre are Helloween, Gamma Ray, and Blind Guardian.

Also, check out Dragonforce!!!

Q: (L) Whatchu know about that?
A: We know all about that.
  • Registered: 2006-07-28

Re: Death metal

I used to like some pretty negative music (eg. Nine Inch Nails), but then I realised that listening to it wasn't cathartic for me - rather, it was just dragging me down, making me wallow in my negativity, like a "downward spiral" (which incidentally is the title of a NIN album). These days I still love metal, only I listen to bands with intelligent, perhaps iconoclastic lyrics and good instrumentation, rather than the really dark stuff. Tool, The Mars Volta and Opeth are three of my favourites.

"Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect." - Mark Twain

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Re: Death metal

As far as my patience for negative music goes, my foray into the "nu-metal" scene was probably the longest period I've spent in that kind of vibe.

Korn and Limp Bizkit were the two bands I was most fond of back in middle school, so that must mean I was about 13 or 14 when I started to listen to that stuff. Sounds about right for the common ritual of entering a moody adolescence. Of course, these days I have zero tolerance for that kind of music and it helps that those bands found gross popularity before being thrown into the trends of yester-year trash compactor!

After listening to that junk I started to listen to punk rock and I do thank punk rock for most of the taste I have in music because listening to D.I.Y. raw, gritty loud music made by dilettantes changed my outlook on self-expression and gave me an idea of what an artistic community is. When most people think of punk rock, they might lump it in with negative music because its too noisey and the whole moshing thing doesn't look too friendly, but to each his own. It is more about the vibrations and that being said, it counts for the vibrations of the music and the vibrations of the listener/perceiver.

Q: (L) Whatchu know about that?
A: We know all about that.
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Re: Death metal

I'm posting my Top 10 favorite albums here because they are all metal, and posting at all because one year from now I'd like to see if any musical changes have happened in between (if we're still here in 2008). Here goes:


1. Therion - Secret of the Runes: symphonic metal from Sweden...album based on Nordic mythology... sounds heavy and occultic. Like some Wagner opera set to metal, or some LOTR sound track.

2. While Heaven Wept - Of Empires Forlorn: epic doom metal juxtaposing divine melodies with soul-deep sorrow, elements of classical music, and heavy guitars. Reminds me of a forlorn version of Styx.

3. Isole - Forevermore: epic doom from Sweden, uses lots of modulation and choral polyphony in their songs, has a sacred occultic feel like music for the apocalypse.

4. Orphaned Land - Mabool: progressive folk metal from Israel. Incredible middle-eastern melodies infused into technical metal. Story centers around three prophets warning the world from another impending flood.

5. Quo Vadis - Day into Night: technical melodic death metal from Canada. Super impressive drums and guitars, insanely complex melodies, and yet it all sounds clear and melodic. Like if Vivaldi made death metal.

6. Whispering Gallery - Shades of Sorrow: melodic doom from the Netherlands. Very emotional and romantic sounding melodies, medieval or transcendental feel, highly atmospheric yet heavy and catchy, mix of angelic, dramatic and demonic vocals.

7. The Gathering - Nighttime Birds: beautiful chugging metal with female vocals from the Netherlands, happy enchanting positive stuff. Easy listening and uplifting version of doom metal.

8. Metal Church - Metal Church: the best falsetto-screaming heavy metal from the 80s. Not glam metal, more like post-apocalyptic Terminator style stuff. I liked it the first time I heard it in elementary school.

9. Edenbridge - Shine: Austrian progressive metal with female vocals. Very positive, melodic, angelic metal with spiritual esoteric lyrics.

10. Amorphis - Elegy: progressive folk-metal from Finland, groundbreaking album with many catchy melodic folk-inspired metal songs  yet combined with growling vocals, and lyrics based on scandinavian folklore like the Kalavela poems.

Acquiring fringe knowledge is like digging for diamonds in a mine field.

montalk's Website