1 (edited by Auendove 2006-06-10 05:19:30)

Topic: Attention meat shoppers...

A half a year ago or so I purchased some ground beef from Walmart that was packaged as is shown below. I cooked it, took one bite, and stopped. It had an odd taste I'd never before tasted in ground beef. While it didn't look, smell, or taste spoiled, the undistiguishable taste concerned me. In fact, it was so foreign tasting I couldn't finish my meal. I've never purchased meat from Walmart again.

I've recently found out what may've been the cause for the odd taste through the following Consumer Reports 6/06 article. I didn't, at the time, think I was tasting anything that approaches spoiledness, and I now think I was tasting the gases used to ensure the meat appeared fresh. Bleck! and Ewwwww!

How old? This ground beef, treated with carbon monoxide, was still red eight weeks after its sell-by date.

http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/resources/images/consumer-protection/consumer-interest/meat-treated-with-carbon-monoxide-spoiled-meat-may-look-fresh-7-06/overview/0607_spoiled-meat_ov1.jpg




Consumer Reports wrote:

Attention, meat shoppers: Your supermarket may be selling ground beef and steaks packaged with gas that keeps it looking red for a month or longer. Our tests found that meat packaged using that method stayed red even if it was spoiled.

The process, used in factory-wrapped (or case-ready) meat, replaces most of the oxygen in the package with other gases. Those include tiny amounts of carbon monoxide, which react with the pigment in meat, producing a red color. The shelf life for ground beef sealed in that mix of gases can be extended from about 14 days to 28 days, and about 10 days to 35 days for whole cuts.

Some supermarket chains, including Kroger and Publix, refuse to carry  ­meat packaged with carbon-monoxide, citing concerns about appearance and freshness or quality.

Bacterial counts that indicate spoilage in meat may make it taste and smell bad, but food safety experts say that it is generally not a health hazard. Thorough cooking will kill bacteria that cause foodborne illness, though it won’t necessarily undo spoilage odors or bad taste.

The U.S. Food and Drug Admin ­istration determined as recently as July 2004 that it had no objections to the use of carbon-mono ­xide packaging for fresh meat. In November 2005, Kalsec, a company in Kalamazoo, Mich., that uses a different meat packaging process, petitioned the FDA to ban carbon monoxide for that use. The company argued that federal regulations prohibited substances that “make food appear better or of greater value than it is.”  At press time, the FDA was still reviewing the company’s petition.

Consumer Reports decided to do limited testing to check whether carbon-monoxide-packaged meat can stay red even when spoiled. Since there’s no requirement that the process be listed on meat labels, we called manufacturers to verify that the brands purchased were packed with carbon monoxide. We tested 10 samples of locally purchased ground beef and steaks from three companies. We found that the meat appeared red even if it was spoiled or had bacterial counts that were close to indicating spoilage.

By their use- or freeze-by date, seven samples were fresh but two packages of ground beef from one company were spoiled; an additional sample was on the brink of spoilage a day before the stamped date.

http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/cons … eat_ov.htm



I haven't actually called the Walmart meat dept. and asked if they use this process, as Consumer Reports suggests...and don't think I actually need to. I think it's a no-brainer. The packaging they use is the same as is shown above, it did have a foreign taste...and well, it's Walmart.

One of the gases used is carbon monoxide, and it is commonly known that carbon monoxide is a poision. Regardless that the FDA says that small amounts of carbon monoxide aren't harmful, and it may not be in small amounts, but I'm wondering about bioaccumulation.

Although I don't eat a lot of beef, what if a person/family does eat a lot of beef, and they consistently purchase beef that is processed with gases? Is the gas expelled with the other bodily waste product (poop)? Or does it stay in the human system and accumulate? It would then become a slow poisoning if it's not expelled, and is indeed retained in the body.

I don't know the definitive answer to the question of whether or not small amounts of carbon monoxide will bioaccumulate so I may be barking up a nonexistent tree, but I don't have much faith that the FDA would reveal a whole truth for sneakily having their arses covered by revealing half of a whole truth. After all, they've been, ahem hmm , before mistaken about their foregone conculsions concerning other products. And anyway, meat packaged this way should be identified with a label...just like I think foods that contain genetically altered properties should be labeled.

At any rate, even though many forum members here are vegetarians, and others do boycott Walmart, this is a heads up about beef that is packaged in this manner. Walmart is most likely not the only grocery store that processes and packages meat this way.

Today's mighty oak is just yesterday's nut that held its ground.
------
Life may not be the party we hoped for, but while we're here we might as well dance.
------
If you spin around on your chair really fast, things around here will make a lot more sense.

lol

Re: Attention meat shoppers...

THANK YOU Auendove, for that highly informative post. It very well could save my dad from additional health problems.

CO (carbon monoxide) IS innocuous in small doses (such as the quantity contained within a package of beef), and is not subject to bioaccumulation such as lead, cadmium, etc. are, but sufficient ventilation IS required if any substantial quantity of CO is being generated (as by gas furnaces in insufficient oxygen environments). This is why newer houses with "better" insulation have CO detectors along with smoke detectors.

The danger arises out of deception, though, especially with the elderly who are significantly more susceptible to food borne illness. If a beef product "looks" good, but is in fact laden with bacteria, then someone with a compromised immune system would seriously be at risk.

I've never had a good feeling upon entering MallWart. There is such a negative, suppressive sensation in that place. I made a conscious decision some time ago to NOT buy any produce or meat there. I have never regreted that decision.

I firmly believe that that "company" uses its financially fat ass to sit on vendors and "coerce" them into manufacturing inferior products, but with the same "quality" labeling as the conventionally produced products that are shipped to competitors (Consumer Reports caught THAT scenario several years ago regarding Samsonite luggage). I've noticed differences in flavor and quality in items from competitors that are exactly identical visually.

I believe that MallWart is screwing with the FDA, the drug companies, and the government in general.

Magis Amica Veritas

I would rather control myself, than someone else.

en courage (heart)
in spire (spirit)
en thuse (theos)

Re: Attention meat shoppers...

You are welcome, Lemniscate!

Thank you for setting me straight about my bioaccumulation question.

I did some more digging through the google search engine and found these other articles. Although they basically say the same thing about the dangers of gasing packaged meats, they have a bit more to say--in the form of opinions--about meat being processed this way.

http://www.co-meat.com/background.html

http://www.sustainabletable.org/blog/ar … onoxi.html

http://www.sustainabletable.org/blog/ar … ll_in.html

The following quote is from the last link, and is not the complete text of the article--

The issue isn't over whether or not the actual levels of carbon monoxide in the meat are dangerous (2.18mg on average - well below safety levels), but over how the practice "fools" consumers into purchasing meat that appears fresh when it actually isn't. Carbon monoxide treated meat stays "healthy pink" even after it turns rotten.

The Washington Post article cites multiple studies that show that color is the number one determining factor of freshness to consumers. Obviously the meat industry knows this, it sells more meat as a result. But their response to the growing concern over the practice? Blame the consumer by saying that we shouldn't be using color to determine freshness in the first place.

So let me get this straight; first the meat industry exploits the consumer for her natural tendency to choose meat by color, and then blames her for not knowing better when she calls them on it.

Evil geniuses.

Today's mighty oak is just yesterday's nut that held its ground.
------
Life may not be the party we hoped for, but while we're here we might as well dance.
------
If you spin around on your chair really fast, things around here will make a lot more sense.

lol

Re: Attention meat shoppers...

The worst is when sushi restaurants do this.  If you ever go to one of those places that has a little conveyor that you simply pull sushi off, stop.  Those places ALL treat the fish with CO.  It does suck that you can't buy a steak from most stores and eat it rare without fear.  One more reason to stop supporting our insane food system and either produce your own or get it directly from a local producer you know and trust.

seeker of truth

follow no path
all paths lead where

truth is here

E.E. Cummings

Re: Attention meat shoppers...

Auendove, do you mind if I forward your post to some friends? This is the first time I've heard of this, and the information is literally apalling. I know it could save a lot of lives, if not curtail many illnesses.

Magis Amica Veritas

I would rather control myself, than someone else.

en courage (heart)
in spire (spirit)
en thuse (theos)

6 (edited by Auendove 2006-06-10 11:10:17)

Re: Attention meat shoppers...

Lemniscate, of course I don't mind. I wouldn't post anything on NR that I would care about any or every other person anywhere reading. It's an open forum, and therefore subject to public perusal.

I think it's very true what a wise spirit once told me...and this is why I do share what may be consider by other's standards as personal, sensitive material (like childhood sexual abuse)--

"Please remember to share. It's what humans don't share that keeps them divisible."

You do with this information whatever you feel is necessary. I, like you, think it's "apalling" and needs to be made apparent to every single consumer. Did you note in the other articles about how other countries have banned this gasing practice? 

Apalling is a kindly word choice, wink me thinks.

yikes I'll tell ya'll...I don't care if the CO levels in these packages are within or even far below acceptable standards. I don't care if there aren't bioaccumulation issues. I don't want it coursing through any part of my body. Another thing to make note of is that while CO is being identified, the other gases used in the process are not. Maybe they are also considered harmless, but still...what are they?

limukala wrote:

The worst is when sushi restaurants do this. If you ever go to one of those places that has a little conveyor that you simply pull sushi off, stop.  Those places ALL treat the fish with CO.

Awwww, man! Sushi, too?

Good thing I make my own, eh? wink big_smile

Today's mighty oak is just yesterday's nut that held its ground.
------
Life may not be the party we hoped for, but while we're here we might as well dance.
------
If you spin around on your chair really fast, things around here will make a lot more sense.

lol

7 (edited by Lemniscate 2006-06-10 15:07:39)

Re: Attention meat shoppers...

Thank you for your open nature.

Yes, I saw where the other countries had banned it. This is similar to the white gold issue (talking jewelry here, not ORMUS) in which the European countries had banned the "US version" which incorporates "nickel". Nickel is a known hyperallergenic, which means that it incites the body to become hypersensitized to materials to which it would not normally be sensitive. It's much cheaper to use it, though, and that's why the US still does . . . even though it has caused many a reaction in people. Inexpensive jewelry that's nickel plated abounds. Many kitchen and bathroom fixtures are nickel plated as well. Anyone else see a trend here . . . ?

I believe that what's the most disconcerting is not necessarily the CO itself, but the result of its reaction with the flesh. In human beings, CO combines more readily with the red blood cells than oxygen, which is why it is so dangerous in a closed, nonventilated environment. This is what is happening in the meat as well. The red blood cells in the muscle fibers are grasping the CO molecules, forming an unnatural union (virtually "dead flesh"). It would be the equivalent of ingesting poisoned meat. This is most likely what is causing the "flavor change" as well (you ever wonder why an open air barbecue makes food taste so much better...?). And the bacteria are respiring with the CO as well, which is definitely not natural. They will become poisoned too, effecting an unnatural death, and will be quite toxic to the body also.

Magis Amica Veritas

I would rather control myself, than someone else.

en courage (heart)
in spire (spirit)
en thuse (theos)

8 (edited by Auendove 2006-06-10 15:50:43)

Re: Attention meat shoppers...

I wrote:

yikes I'll tell ya'll...I don't care if the CO levels in these packages are within or even far below acceptable standards. I don't care if there aren't bioaccumulation issues. I don't want it coursing through any part of my body.

roll roll roll and hmm

I was cooking dinner after writing my post, and thinking (uh-oh). I thought about this part I had written, and then thought again. You should have seen me trying to kick myself in the arse lol . Because I couldn't kick myself in the arse I thoroughly gave myself what for. It wasn't pretty tongue .

I raised such rant, and the truth be known--I smoke Marlboro Lights. Big DOH!

Maybe this is an unnecessary "true confession", but I couldn't let it go without owning up to my climbing up on a soap box...like a hypocrite.

OUCH!

Ohhhh weeeeell... smile live and learn.

Today's mighty oak is just yesterday's nut that held its ground.
------
Life may not be the party we hoped for, but while we're here we might as well dance.
------
If you spin around on your chair really fast, things around here will make a lot more sense.

lol

Re: Attention meat shoppers...

Sorry to assist you in bending your leg into an unnatural position, but . . .
http://www.quit-smoking-stop.com/harmfu … ettes.html

My dad smokes as well. I've tried to talk sense into him, but as I've researched "nicotine is harder to kick than heroin".

It's so sad to watch a human being killing themselves. He coughs horrendously and incessantly. It's gotta come from within, though . . .

Magis Amica Veritas

I would rather control myself, than someone else.

en courage (heart)
in spire (spirit)
en thuse (theos)

10 (edited by Auendove 2006-06-10 16:29:57)

Re: Attention meat shoppers...

Well, not that I'm making excuses for myself, but I don't actually smoke all that much. Most days 2 or 3 a day, some days none at all, and rarely I'll smoke more than just 2 or 3 a day.

For what it's worth, I thought I'd clarify this. I'm more concerned about myself speaking out of school, than the other issue. That may sound bass ackwards, but it's true.

And, I've seen both smokers and heroin addicts in withdrawal (I was a Methadone Clinic Addictions Counselor for a half-year)...the heroin/narcotics addict definitely seems to me to have the harder row to hoe. I'm not challenging you, I'm just sharing my up close and personal observations.

Today's mighty oak is just yesterday's nut that held its ground.
------
Life may not be the party we hoped for, but while we're here we might as well dance.
------
If you spin around on your chair really fast, things around here will make a lot more sense.

lol

Re: Attention meat shoppers...

I think Lemi was referring to a study a while back which rated many addictive substances on many criteria, and then gave a composite rating of addictive potential or some such.  Nicotine was only beat my crack and smoked meth, and alcohol slightly beat out heroin, but that was because severity of withdrawal symptoms was only one facet.  There were 5 others, but I can only remember one or two, namely social acceptibility (which explains why cigarettes would beat heroin) and ease of addiction (how fast it happens).  It all depends on how you look at it, but there is definitely a lot more social support if a heroin addict wants to quit than a smoker, and smokers have a lot more reinforcement around them.  I know for my wife the hardest part of quiting was (is) being around smokers at work and not having one on break.  I doubt too many ex-junkies have to worry about that.

seeker of truth

follow no path
all paths lead where

truth is here

E.E. Cummings

Re: Attention meat shoppers...

Lemniscate and limukala, thank you both for you input about cigs and addiction.

I really didn't mean for the thread to get sidetracked by my "true confession", I just realized my personal hypocrisy, and wanted to set the record straight.

It's true, smile confession is good for the soul, but it does nothing for the issue of gasing meat...or at least not until the meat/grocer industry (at least some grocers) try some on for size--

Meat/grocer industry>>> "I confess to taking advantage of the consumer and putting their health at risk, for profit."

Today's mighty oak is just yesterday's nut that held its ground.
------
Life may not be the party we hoped for, but while we're here we might as well dance.
------
If you spin around on your chair really fast, things around here will make a lot more sense.

lol

Re: Attention meat shoppers...

Auendove, I love you hon', and you're important in life. But you sound JUST like my dad whenever the subject of smoking comes up. He defends it with a passion, excusing it to the Nth degree, and coming up with all kinds of rationalizations.

Limukala is correct, I was referring to orthodox research comparing the chemicals of nicotine, heroin, cocaine, and others. What the researchers stated was the heinous action of nicotine and how it veritably
"demonically" (their words) took over the human psyche and physiology. Where the ones addicted to the other chemicals "had a chance", the ones addicted to nicotine had less of one because of how it interreacted within their system.

I was compelled to study up on this because my dad almost died from smoking . . . twice.

I will discuss this no further, since I feel it makes you uncomfortable, and I don't want to do that. I will state that one of the hardest things to deal with in life is trying to help one who doesn't want to be helped. It's the most difficult thing about being an empath. Please don't take this personally. I value you. I just want you to realize that same value within yourself.

Magis Amica Veritas

I would rather control myself, than someone else.

en courage (heart)
in spire (spirit)
en thuse (theos)

14 (edited by Auendove 2006-06-12 05:02:01)

Re: Attention meat shoppers...

I wrote:

Well, not that I'm making excuses for myself, but I don't actually smoke all that much. Most days 2 or 3 a day, some days none at all, and rarely I'll smoke more than just 2 or 3 a day.

Lemniscate wrote:

But you sound JUST like my dad whenever the subject of smoking comes up. He defends it with a passion, excusing it to the Nth degree, and coming up with all kinds of rationalizations.

There was very little "passion," no "Nth degree," and no coming up with "all kinds" of rationalizations in my post. It's actually two short and simple sentences.

Lemni, the passion is your own. While I feel for the position you're in with your father, I do believe you're projecting your issues with your father onto me. Please, at least, take this under consideration, okay?

Lemniscate wrote:

I will discuss this no further, since I feel it makes you uncomfortable, and I don't want to do that. I will state that one of the hardest things to deal with in life is trying to help one who doesn't want to be helped. It's the most difficult thing about being an empath. Please don't take this personally. I value you. I just want you to realize that same value within yourself.

Lemniscate, you've made it impossible not to take it personally. You should've stopped after the first sentence, and not further followed with the remainder that makes it impossible not to take it personally.

While I do think you believe that you have my best interests at heart, and whether or not you're an empath, you do not know me know me well and complete enough to discern to what extent I actually do value myself...or how well I know who I am, or just how aware I am (a reference to your post to me on the Poll/abduction thread).

Please know that I am not looking to have any hard feelings between the two of us.

Today's mighty oak is just yesterday's nut that held its ground.
------
Life may not be the party we hoped for, but while we're here we might as well dance.
------
If you spin around on your chair really fast, things around here will make a lot more sense.

lol

Re: Attention meat shoppers...

From Outback Steakhouse...

Bye, Pictus

--------------------
http://pictus.co.nr