Karma -The Lie (Page 1 of 2)

This does seem to be true.  I gleaned a bit of insight from my higher self once, it was a real trip, but I'll try to convey it here as best as I can.  I don't even remember necessarily what exactly I asked it, something to do with the negativity in this world and why it has to be like that, and then I received a rush of images - can't even explain it!! - just this rush of images of all sorts of planet Earth mayhem.  War, poverty, suffering, pain, all rushing at me, in a blue gray colored hue, and then my mind's eye pulled up and away from the images, everything coming to a hovering halt - I was looking down as if from a "bird's eye view" at this blue gray hued landscape where all this war, poverty, pain and suffering was taking place, and I could feel it too, but now everything was motionless.  And then the answer to my question came to me, along with a telepathic "feeling", that the reason it was this way was because people believe that it has to be this way, they believe that they need to keep coming back, and suffer.

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It was quite eye opening.  So basically, if I'm understanding this answer and the telepathic feeling I received correctly, the reason we're here is because we've gotten stuck, or trapped, and have forgotten what the hell is going on, and for some reason believe that we need to keep coming back, again and again and again and again, and believe that this is the way it "has" to be......but it doesn't have to be this way.

Talk about yikes.   

The experience was so neat though.  What a trip.

So yeah, I definitely don't believe that we're "judged" when we die, or that we accumulate karma designated from an outside force.  That's a control mechanism meted out by religions that have all been corrupted.  Whatever "karma" we get is self-imposed, because we believe that we need to punish ourselves or set something straight.  And there's nothing really wrong with that idea, in fact it has noble foundations, but let's face it.........if we've somehow gotten stuck in an "eddy" in the "river" of time-space experience, and have gotten ourselves trapped, then enough already, you know?   Seriously, how many more cycles are we supposed to keep repeating in the program??  That's sort of what I came away with from my HS's insight as well.

Interesting.

I use the word "karma" a lot, since it's an easy way to explain some concepts that are difficult to explain adequately. Perhaps this can be attributed to a simple misinterpretation, since I do not express karmic energy as being anything other than one's own energy, expressed from a different perspective, at a different time, for a highly specific purpose. I know that this clashes greatly with the more traditional forms, which tend to be highly legalistic and almost completely useless, IMO.

However, I do strongly believe that karma is an ultimate adjudicating force. Where I diverge from common interpretations is that I believe that it exists seperately for every individual perspective, and is uniquely capable of providing a useful service. Within this understanding there is absolutely NO interest in past life experiences, or in reincarnation as we understand it.

Rather, I see karma as being more of a gateway that one must pass through in order to be entrusted with more enlightened knowledge and technique. This is because a certain level of maturity and discipline is required for the proper application of more advanced technology. Without some sort of screening process, this information is dangerous, mostly to the individual responsible for utilizing it, but also to the common interest, IMO. It is for this reason that karma exists, since those who are unable to adequately process it's lessons are not ready for dangerous tools.

If you want an alternate understanding, another way of seeing karma is well described by the machine-father in The Matrix Revolutions as he describes his feelings of love and karma to Neo in regards to his daughter - It isn't the words that matter, but the associations that we attribute to it. My definition isn't the one found in a book, but it works for me, and most people understand the implications of my understanding at least partway, so perhaps the issue is translation, rather than the concept itself.

Many terms and ideas boil down to definition, but karma to me means consequences. Consequences are a part of anything we do, say, think, or feel without having to interefere with freewill.  Certainly the idea of "punishment and/or reward" has controlling implications, and we should not have to live in fear of punishment and continual suffering if something we do isn't quite harmonious. That is not freewill and to me hinders any real growth and exploration.

Lyra, I found your account to be so insightful as to want to post it to another forum on this same topic. Without disclosing the source, would you mind if I did this?

I have no idea if i'm correct in this or not, but to me karma is 2 things, a list of what you have experienced and what you havent experienced. So if you kill but you havent been killed you lack an experience that someone can give to you if you desire. And karma is a very basic cause and effect machine. If you do something then there is usually a counter response to it. It will not necceserily target you if you can move out of its way but it can be an aspect of karma.

Karma has no control over your life, there is no lords of karma or lordettes of karma (ladies). It is only a system that keeps in memory what you have done so you have free experiences in stock if you want to experience being murdered then the universe "ows" you that experience and that would be karma.

Cashing in that debt is completely voluntary

Cause and effect when taken as a intelligent design or an intelligent system is ofcourse a lie. And i would disagree with children being accurate about mostly anything as tests goes to show that amongst other things. Children are very prone to lying to anyone at any chance if it suits their needs. Infact it could go so far a to alledge that children are infact most often completely without a consience and only develope it through interaction and seeing that if you hit someone with a hammer they tend to either hit you back or die or you get punished. Ofcourse that being outside the scope of this argument.

So, in linear terms the cause and effect is based on the idea that all things have a certain reflective properities. If you shine a lamp towards the wall the effect of it is that the wall reflects. Thus cause and effect. So when you do something that causes a ripple in time and it bounces off other things and causes an effect. You can ofcourse move away from that effect well in hand to completely miss it but the cause and effect itself as a purely physical manifestation stays the same regardless.

Is cause and effect a reality, yes i believe so, but is it one that is best used to describe the underlying patterns of our world. Then no, it isnt. A apple dosnt fall towards the earth, apple is lighter so it moves towards the relative center point of gravity between earth and the apple which in theory makes it appear as if the apple falls towards earth. Is it neccesary for most levels of thought to realise that to say "the apple fell towards the earth" is completely wrong. I dont believe it is but to truly understand it must happen.

So while cause and effect is both, a purely mechanical function of the universe and a control system. One important thing is to understand how it works for all intents and purposes it does work. The two are definetly not the same and cause and effect as such  does NOT describe the real situation of the world, however, for most who are not willing to learn alot of the deeper situations with the world it is more than adequate for it.

Karma reeks of New Age crap that someone made up just to control others.

It doesn't make sense.  According to the theory as I understand it, you are reincarnated to repay the evil you did in your past life. 

What doesn't make any sense because

1).  Almost everyone can't remember what happened in their past life.  What would be the point of correcting mistakes I can't remember?  Wouldn't it be better for me to remember them so I can learn from them?

2).  Making mistakes is inevitable, so karma would be this neverending cycle.  You're like a ping-pong ball, bounced from Earth to the afterlife over and over.  I don't want a ping-pong ball life.

Starcat. all that you have said is true on one level of the illusion and reality. However, what i said is also true but it does not apply to this level as the natural system of what karma is supposed to be has been twisted beyond recognition and taken to benefit the leaders and "lord of karma" which actually would in reality be little more than library clerks of karma in reality. In that they have no power they only have a list of all things done incase you wish to check up on it. Rather small entities if you think about it. So the control system has taken a notion of what is real and twisted it to fit their benefits on this level.

So in reality there is karma and cause and effect, but in a system completely controlled by nefarious intelligences the effects and karma can be countered by them and a false reaction given so as to promote control. To use your business allegory.

The businessman knows how tha laws work in reality and knows that what he does it not truly legal, yet as he is in a self built system higher than those who work for him he can lead them to believe that what he does is supported by all the systems, infact, that he built the systems. Like an emperor or pharaho, he makes the sun rise and the eclipses arrive. Yet in reality he has only taken a system of numbers and machines and used it to fit his purpose.

So yes, in this level how karma is explained and how it is thought to work (punishment) Has absolutely nothing to do with how karma in reality is supposed to work. So as karma is understood in this conversation then i agree with you starcat. It is nothing more than a control system.