• From: IL
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Re: being nice vs being real

I was just thinking some more about what Lyra had said about those empty phrases that people say to fit certain situations just because they feel it's the right thing to do...

Here's some of my all-time "faves" (sarcastic):

1)  How's it going? or How are you? (it's become a rhetorical salutation!... usually, no one truly want to hear the answer)

2)  How's the weather out there?  (again, no one wants to listen to the answer, and I've noticed "customer service" reps of large corporations use this statement to throw off your focus (when you call with a question or complaint), right before they ask for your ssn# or mother's maiden name!!!)

3)  "If you need anything, let me know."  (and sometimes it's followed up with a quick, "I mean it!" ....:rolleyes:) 
(other variations include:
"If there's anything I can do...."
"I'm/we're here for you...." (this one really irritates me, especially when you've just met the person!)

Now, you'd think that statement #3 is only used in serious situations (like a death or terminal illness), but it's NOT.... I can't tell you how many times I've heard people say that to me or someone else in response to something utterly trivial!!... It's become a "filler" statement in response to a situation that the speaker cannot relate to.... Here's an example... You loose your cell phone, and although you're concerned, it's not the end of the world... You tell your friend or co-worker about it, they respond, "Ohhhh...Nooooo... How awful!... If there's anything I can do, don't hesitate to call me."  I can't tell you on how many levels that response is wrong, but it's a totally acceptable response in today's society.  We're supposed to think that the person is a "good" person and a "nice" person, because they said something that showed they cared, right?  Sorry, not in my world.

Anyways, enough of my ranting.... Anyone else have any other ones they can think of?

"Sometimes I wonder whether the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it." ~ Mark Twain

32 Reply by lyra (edited by lyra 2006-05-30 14:03:21)

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Re: being nice vs being real

Pinkrlyq wrote:

I was just thinking some more about what Lyra had said about those empty phrases that people say to fit certain situations just because they feel it's the right thing to do...

Here's some of my all-time "faves" (sarcastic):

1)  How's it going? or How are you? (it's become a rhetorical salutation!... usually, no one truly want to hear the answer)

2)  How's the weather out there?  (again, no one wants to listen to the answer, and I've noticed "customer service" reps of large corporations use this statement to throw off your focus (when you call with a question or complaint), right before they ask for your ssn# or mother's maiden name!!!)

That's SO TRUE about the customer service reps slipping in fake conversational distraction questions!  Annoying.   Sales people do it too when they're fishing for contact person information and the like.   You know what I say we do?  I say we start calling these people out on it.   I'm declaring war not only on superficial filler dialogue, but manipulative conversational tactics as well.  wink  I'm serious.  It's war!   The real people versus the energy sucking, imitation-emotion Pod People.



Pinkrlyq wrote:

Here's an example... You loose your cell phone, and although you're concerned, it's not the end of the world... You tell your friend or co-worker about it, they respond, "Ohhhh...Nooooo... How awful!... If there's anything I can do, don't hesitate to call me."  I can't tell you on how many levels that response is wrong, but it's a totally acceptable response in today's society.  We're supposed to think that the person is a "good" person and a "nice" person, because they said something that showed they cared, right?  Sorry, not in my world.

That's so funny.............in my original post where I mentioned the empty filler dialogue I was thinking of this exact same thing - responses that are over the top and do not match the situation, but I forgot to mention it!   So how funny, I'm glad you pointed this one out.  I've encountered it as well.  There's a girl who sits one desk up from mine at work - she's a really nice girl, I don't know if she's "real" though, but either way she's become quite adept at the art of smooth conversing with people.  She's got a very low key, soft spoken, nice girl persona, the kind of person who naturally attracts people who need someone to talk to and a sympathetic ear.   My guess is that she's gotten this so often to such an extent over the years that she's learned how to "buffer" herself with empty filler dialogue and responses.  Stuff to smoothly respond with, and keep the conversation smoothly segueing along while maintaining a safe emotional distance.  And I totally understand that.........I even write about something similar in one of my articles.  But sometimes her responses just plain don't match up to what's being said!  big_smile   I can't remember what I'd said to her like 2 weeks ago, but it wasn't anything "oooh!!  serious!" or negative or bad, it was something pretty light hearted, as we chatted on the way to the elevator after 5 p.m.........but her response was the furrowed brows, methodical head nod, and feigned concern that was waaay out of proportion to whatever I was saying.   Just acting like what I was saying was this serious bad thing.   You gotta love that whole furrowed brows, methodical head nod thing though.  haha

But it was that moment that did it for me.............Until that moment I was thinking, Hey, she seems cool, she's really nice, so we might become buddies here at this job, who knows?   But now?   Forget it.  I can't be buddies with people who converse using pre-scripted autopilot responses....and which don't even match up to the situation, no less!.....and, who lack the self-awareness to even realize they're doing it.   And again, I totally understand the idea of having to buffer yourself....................against energy feeders.  But learn to differentiate between that and regular conversation.  Don't just stick yourself on "scripted auto pilot cruise control" all day.     


Pinkrlyq wrote:

Anyways, enough of my ranting.... Anyone else have any other ones they can think of?

Well, I liked yours, they were all spot on.  Will listen more closely to what people say at work, see if I can come up with others.

In the meantime.........it's war, people!   big_smile   Just say no to empty, insincere filler dialogue and manipulative conversational tactics designed to distract you in order to fish for information!!

"Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting "Holy shit ... what a ride!"  - Anonymous
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lyra's Website

33 Reply by titmouse_ (edited by titmouse_ 2006-05-30 21:53:21)

  • From: Shores of Lake Titikaka
  • Registered: 2006-05-25

Re: being nice vs being real

I say we start calling these people out on it.   I'm declaring war not only on superficial filler dialogue, but manipulative conversational tactics as well.  wink  I'm serious.  It's war!   The real people versus the energy sucking, imitation-emotion Pod People.




In the meantime.........it's war, people!   big_smile   Just say no to empty, insincere filler dialogue and manipulative conversational tactics designed to distract you in order to fish for information!!

I can agree on this concept to a point, but let's not attack the personality of the drone. They are trained and need a new thinking pattern programmed.

Example: At Well's Fargo Bank I was telling the clerk, while depositting a check to pay my mortgage, that my mortgage company was making it very  difficult for me to pay my overdue payments before the next fee period. They would not let me wire-transfer from my bank, or pay a payment online. To reap large fees they were expecting me to go to the  "Pony Express" route with a certified check sent to a special location in Texas. I told her about how banks are doing everything possible to cause us to rack up late fees( a very profitable margin in today's financial game). She said, "Wells Fargo Bank cares about you and we don't engage in that sort of behavior".

I replied with a chuckle, "You're trained to say that". Her prim and proper facade faded to a grin.  I said, "Wells Fargo did a similar tactic to me a while back--they bounced 7 checks after returning a check I deposited from a customer who forgot to sign his check. Then the bank didn't have the courtesy to call right away, instead they mailed me a notice. This could have been avoided all together had they called me."

I think she appreciated me standing up to the "drone voice response". Some new employees are still human. We best attack the policy and the training, not the person.  Make them respond creatively!  Be compassionate; show passion. Creativity, compassion, passion: these are the weapons we need to use. Corporations lack these valuable human traits.

Attack the training programed response. AI (artificial intelligence) has weaknesses. It discounts human emotion as trivial, and is not creative.

Next time: "I want to do business with passion and sincerity. If you can't show your humanity, I want to talk to your supervisor. Send me the drone clone clown".

Fun fact: Great Tits are common in Europe

To know love is to know trust; to know oneself is to know truth
~~carefulcarpenter

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34 Reply by lyra (edited by lyra 2006-05-30 22:04:27)

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Re: being nice vs being real

titmouse_ wrote:

I  can agree on this concept to a point, but let's not attack the personality of the drone. They are trained and need a new thinking pattern programmed......Attack the training programed response. AI (artificial intelligence) has weaknesses. It discounts human emotion as trivial, and is not creative.

I never said attack the personality of the drone.

My response was mostly "tongue in cheek", which I thought was obvious, with all the declarations of "war."    But partly I'm not kidding either.  I think we should pipe up and say something when we're on the receiving end of mindless filler dialogue.  By all means, point it out.   All I ever said was to question what was being said and the type of tactics and responses we're encountering.  But nowhere in any of my posts did I say "attack the personality of the drone."

"Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting "Holy shit ... what a ride!"  - Anonymous
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lyra's Website

35 Reply by titmouse_ (edited by titmouse_ 2006-05-30 22:04:58)

  • From: Shores of Lake Titikaka
  • Registered: 2006-05-25

Re: being nice vs being real

lyra wrote:
titmouse_ wrote:

I  can agree on this concept to a point, but let's not attack the personality of the drone. They are trained and need a new thinking pattern programmed......Attack the training programed response. AI (artificial intelligence) has weaknesses. It discounts human emotion as trivial, and is not creative.

I never said attack the personality of the drone.

Sorry, maybe I misinterpreted the object of the attack. I'll post your first premise.

I'm serious.  It's war!   The real people versus the energy sucking, imitation-emotion Pod People.

Fun fact: Great Tits are common in Europe

To know love is to know trust; to know oneself is to know truth
~~carefulcarpenter

1+1=1

36 Reply by lyra (edited by lyra 2006-05-30 22:33:33)

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Re: being nice vs being real

titmouse_ wrote:
lyra wrote:
titmouse_ wrote:

I  can agree on this concept to a point, but let's not attack the personality of the drone. They are trained and need a new thinking pattern programmed......Attack the training programed response. AI (artificial intelligence) has weaknesses. It discounts human emotion as trivial, and is not creative.

I never said attack the personality of the drone.

Sorry, maybe I misinterpreted the object of the attack. I'll post your first premise.

I'm serious.  It's war!   The real people versus the energy sucking, imitation-emotion Pod People.

I called them Pod People.....but I didn't say "go after them and call them Pod people" or "attack the personality of the drone, and that will take care of the problem." 

Challenge what's being said and done.   Question the tactics.  That's all I ever said to do, if you go back and read my posts.   It's what I plan to do, anyway.  I'm already starting to do it, when I can.  But just because I refer to them, and think of them as "Pod People" doesn't mean I ever said "attack them on a personal level, that'll solve the issue."   So yeah, slight misunderstanding I guess.

Now if you'lll excuse me.......I'm heading off to war!  wink  big_smile

"Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting "Holy shit ... what a ride!"  - Anonymous
-----
"I get by with a little help from my (higher density) friends."
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lyra's Website

  • From: IL
  • Registered: 2006-05-24

Re: being nice vs being real

lyra wrote:
titmouse_ wrote:
lyra wrote:

I never said attack the personality of the drone.

Sorry, maybe I misinterpreted the object of the attack. I'll post your first premise.

I'm serious.  It's war!   The real people versus the energy sucking, imitation-emotion Pod People.

I called them Pod People.....but I didn't say "go after them and call them Pod people" or "attack the personality of the drone, and that will take care of the problem." 

Challenge what's being said and done.   Question the tactics.  That's all I ever said to do, if you go back and read my posts.   It's what I plan to do, anyway.  I'm already starting to do it, when I can.  But just because I refer to them, and think of them as "Pod People" doesn't mean I ever said "attack them on a personal level, that'll solve the issue."   So yeah, slight misunderstanding I guess.

Now if you'lll excuse me.......I'm heading off to war!  wink  big_smile

Oh my!... I understood your meaning, Lyra.  And I agree with both of yous wink  No intention of  personal attacks, a "war of words" would suffice.... Personally, I think the next time someone off-handedly asks me, "How are you?"...
I may just stare blankly at them for a minute with a "plastic" smile on my face (I don't recommend that one in a bank tho... you may just send the wrong impression and make someone nervous, and get tackled by security)
.... or I may respond, "Oh, partly cloudy with a chance of an afternoon storm... And yourself?"
.... or "I could tell you, but then I'd have to kill you" (again, NOT in a bank situation)
.... or "I'm...... I'm sorry, what was the question again?... Did you ask me how I'm doing or about the weather this time?"
.... or (my favorite)... "Was that a rhetorical question?"
.... or (if you have a really friendly demeanour) waggle you're finger at them and say "nahh, no, no... You asked me that one last time... I want a different question today!"  (this one would work perfectly in a bank teller situation or supermarket, or hell, even in the workplace)

Just my 2 cents for now... anyone got more?  big_smile

"Sometimes I wonder whether the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it." ~ Mark Twain

38 Reply by lyra (edited by lyra 2006-05-31 05:11:51)

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Re: being nice vs being real

Pinkrlyq wrote:

Personally, I think the next time someone off-handedly asks me, "How are you?"...
I may just stare blankly at them for a minute with a "plastic" smile on my face (I don't recommend that one in a bank tho... you may just send the wrong impression and make someone nervous, and get tackled by security)
.... or I may respond, "Oh, partly cloudy with a chance of an afternoon storm... And yourself?"
.... or "I could tell you, but then I'd have to kill you" (again, NOT in a bank situation)
.... or "I'm...... I'm sorry, what was the question again?... Did you ask me how I'm doing or about the weather this time?"
.... or (my favorite)... "Was that a rhetorical question?"
.... or (if you have a really friendly demeanour) waggle you're finger at them and say "nahh, no, no... You asked me that one last time... I want a different question today!"  (this one would work perfectly in a bank teller situation or supermarket, or hell, even in the workplace)

Just my 2 cents for now... anyone got more?  big_smile

big_smile  I'm going to try out "Was that a rhetorical question?", see how that one goes if I can tell people are just trying to fill up space with their questions.

I like the suggestions regarding what to say or not say to bank tellers....too funny!  big_smile

"Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting "Holy shit ... what a ride!"  - Anonymous
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  • From: Shores of Lake Titikaka
  • Registered: 2006-05-25

Re: being nice vs being real

You are all wonderfully "nice people". It's just that once in awhile you aren't so "nice". This is when I particularily like you..... when you are yourselves.

I especially think google is "nice and respectful". LOL!! **a dark veil of silence falls over the thread like fog on a San Francisco evening in July**

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To know love is to know trust; to know oneself is to know truth
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Re: being nice vs being real

titmouse_ wrote:

, so I tell one person one thing and another person something totally different".

Ahhh.

I would never do that.



titmouse_ wrote:

Silence is a deadly killer of spirit.

I wonder.

In one way I agree, how do we express ourselves without words ?

On the other hand it is better to be quiet than say something that is not heartfelt.

google's Website

41 Reply by titmouse_ (edited by titmouse_ 2006-05-31 21:15:03)

  • From: Shores of Lake Titikaka
  • Registered: 2006-05-25

Re: being nice vs being real

google wrote:
titmouse_ wrote:

, so I tell one person one thing and another person something totally different".

Ahhh.

I would never do that.



titmouse_ wrote:

Silence is a deadly killer of spirit.

I wonder.

In one way I agree, how do we express ourselves without words ?

On the other hand it is better to be quiet than say something that is not heartfelt.

I have a feeling you are an authentic nice guy. This other guy concerns me, especially since I have noticed he contradicts himself so often. His memory is not what it should be for someone who tells people different things. Liars eventually get caught because they cannot remember all the lies they tell. "Little white lies" seem to be the most indicative of people who present the "mr. nice guy" image.  You and I would not tell different things to different people. Next after "little lies" comes petty excuses. Then pettiness in general.

Silence can be wise at times. In the long run silence may keep a person out of trouble, but in my case, I have grown by the "test of fire". I wish I had the time to explain. I guess you would have had to have been there.

Today I was grilled by a priest friend, this guy I speak of, a mother/artist with a young child, and an affluent woman that didn't like men discussing philosophy in a coffee shop. She was a "very nice person" who, on her way out of the shop said, "Maybe you guys should stop talking about philosophy and go out and do some good works". She then got in a new expensive SUV and drove off. We conjectured that there would be a few road rage incidents and some people cut off on the freeway. She had a "very nice smile" when she gave us her quick advice, though.  She wouldn't sit with us and discuss issues..... she was in too big of a hurry. smile ...and most likely a very important woman.

Fun fact: Great Tits are common in Europe

To know love is to know trust; to know oneself is to know truth
~~carefulcarpenter

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Re: being nice vs being real

titmouse_ wrote:

We may be doing them a service, because in the treatment of "evil" we will heal our enemy. This was the gift that Jesus left in His teachings. The "people of image" have a difficult time with authenticity and compassion.

This is true. There's a very good video on the net of Mr. Rogers dealing with a senator during hearings on funding for public broadcasting back in 1969. His authentic compassion completely overwhelms the image-based debating style the senator had intended on using. You can see the video here. Being nice and real can win the day!

--Justin

43 Reply by lyra (edited by lyra 2006-06-01 12:09:46)

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Re: being nice vs being real

That looks interesting, czyx.  I'll have to watch that when I get home and I have a computer with sound.  Mr. Rogers working his magic mind control mojo!  big_smile  So I wonder what the scoop is/was with Mr. Rogers?  When I was a kid I LOVED him.  If I was up in my room and my mom was flipping through the TV stations downstairs and if I even so much as heard one little blip of the Mr. Rogers show as she passed by WGBN Boston, I'd drop what I was doing and go tearing down the stairs.  "Mr. Rogers!!! Mr. Rogers!!!"  She'd be so annoyed, forced into keeping Mr. Rogers on.  big_smile  haha  She didn't like the show, I loved it.  I don't know why.  So if anybody has any insight into the magic of Mr. Rogers, that would be cool.  Maybe he was just so genuinely sincerely nice that kids are drawn to him like a magnet?  I wonder....

"Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting "Holy shit ... what a ride!"  - Anonymous
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44 Reply by lyra (edited by lyra 2006-06-01 12:28:56)

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Re: being nice vs being real

....okay, and backtracking back to the fake filler lingo portion of this thread.........I just heard two different coworkers say "SOUNDS GOOD!!!" three separate times within the last hour.   Doing that thing where they're finishing up on a phone call and trying to throw in filler lingo as they're wrapping things up.   GRRRRRR!  Annoying!  Fake fake fake.


Okay, edit......now it's three coworkers saying it, within an hour and a half.....!

Down with "SOUNDS GOOD!" 

Boo!

"Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting "Holy shit ... what a ride!"  - Anonymous
-----
"I get by with a little help from my (higher density) friends."
-----

lyra's Website

  • From: IL
  • Registered: 2006-05-24

Re: being nice vs being real

lyra wrote:

That looks interesting, czyx.  I'll have to watch that when I get home and I have a computer with sound.  Mr. Rogers working his magic mind control mojo!  big_smile  So I wonder what the scoop is/was with Mr. Rogers?  When I was a kid I LOVED him.  If I was up in my room and my mom was flipping through the TV stations downstairs and if I even so much as heard one little blip of the Mr. Rogers show as she passed by WGBN Boston, I'd drop what I was doing and go tearing down the stairs.  "Mr. Rogers!!! Mr. Rogers!!!"  She'd be so annoyed, forced into keeping Mr. Rogers on.  big_smile  haha  She didn't like the show, I loved it.  I don't know why.  So if anybody has any insight into the magic of Mr. Rogers, that would be cool.  Maybe he was just so genuinely sincerely nice that kids are drawn to him like a magnet?  I wonder....

That's an interesting topic!  Why do kids get drawn to certain shows, and how different shows influence different generations.  My best friend and I have discussed this exact same thing, now that she has two small children and is seeing the whole "cycle" again.  The Teletubbies freak us both out, but her kids keep wanting to watch them.

I liked Mr. Rogers too, when I was a kid.  I think it was his soft voice and gentle nature.  He seemed to me to represent "the perfect daddy" type of person.  I wonder how much gender factors in, if at all....

"Sometimes I wonder whether the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it." ~ Mark Twain