Hi guys and gals,
Poked my head over here for a minute to see how things are going over here and saw this thread. Good subject for discussion.
As part of my work creating a syndicated column that combines real astrology with pop cultural (ie: celebrity) news, I am unfortunately forced to stay on top of all celeb news events. And over the three years I've been writing Lipstick Mystic Stars I have noticed a HUGE shift toward programming young girls into following Britney Spears' footsteps - get married at 20, get knocked up with two kids before you turn 25, and make sure you've married a selfish jerk so you'll be divorced by 26. Very sad stuff. It's this weird inverted type of programming - on the one hand getting girls all excited about the COOL aspects of having kids - yet also encouraging them to mindlessly procreate and screw up their lives before they have built a true foundation of "self" as an adult.
I think what's going on in so much of the Hispanic community - women wanting to "get having kids out of the way before they go to college" - is starting to leak over into more "mainstream" Anglo culture. Yet there is some other decidedly twisted stuff being added to the mix.
I have to agree with the boys in this thread...this societal programming seems to be about convincing slaves to make more slaves (and more loosh harvest) for the Fatherland. (or Motherland.)
Self-aware, cool ladies having babies I have no problems with - we need more of these enlightened would-be mums coming to the forefront. You go, girls! And let me know when the baby shower is so I can treat you to a spa gift. I support you wholeheartedly.
But "baby as cool accessory" programming is scary stuff, especially when you overhear a bunch of 14-year-olds talking about this in the ladies room in all seriousness, as I did last night (when I went to see the X-men - fun film, that.)
Their conversation, I kid you not, went from the importance of having an Ipod on you at all times, even at the movies ("in case the movie is boring or it's too scary"), to "how many kids are you going to have and when?" The concensus answer being "Before I get too old, like 20 or so." Like it's all the same cool accessory - Ipod and baby.
These girls were about 13 or 14. Suburban, whitebread, Anglo here in New Jersey. Bright kids from the local high school. And since teen sexuality is increasing to the point of 10year olds all knowing how to give blowjobs these days, this is a scary thing to overhear.
On a side note, I want to warn the guys out there who want to remain childfree. You will meet women, otherwise perfectly sane and loving, who will attempt to "oops" you on purpose.
I counselled over 10,000 clients, mostly women, in private practice for about ten years. I lost count of the amount of women who "oopsed" their significant others on purpose - but it has to be in the hundreds at least. At least 500 or more. And in my own social circle I know many who have done this.
It falls along the lines of "I'll get him to make a commitment, one way or another; a baby will be the perfect solution!" (most common) to "We've been married for a while now, so I'm the one who is going to have to make this move, because obviously it is the "purpose of marriage." (Plus her parents keep asking her when the grandkids are coming, her sisters and brothers already have kids and she feels pressured to keep up with them, yada yada.)
A lot of people really feel that the purpose of marriage is procreation - traditional "Christian" or not.
Funny, I always thought marriage was for entering into a loving spiritual union with someone you adored so you could work as a team to do really cool things on the planet together. I thought it was about the adults, not about their ova or sperm 
Oh, the things you have the privilege of hearing and observing when you are the primary confidante of thousands of women!
(And oh, the horror as well - this is why I no longer do this for a living
I never seemed to have any luck breaking through the sheer selfishness of this particular type of woman. Most of their significant others didn't want kids, but their girlfriends/wives "knew what was best for them."
This was especially prominent among Italians and Polish folks I counselled, who were culturally programmed to believe that having children was the only way to maintain respect and honor within the larger family tribe. Very sad stuff. I knew so many brilliant, educated, unique women whose spirits were crushed - and who immediately descended to the poverty level as single moms after these (unwanted by the men) babies were born and the men left, deserted them, or filed for divorce.
What was up with that? Would-be moms sentencing their future children to lives without dads because they failed to take into account the desires of the men they were partnered with - thus creating horrible fights, lifelong bitterness, and unwanted financial and personal obligation from these men for the next twenty years.
I have to say, I am not impressed with the majority of my fellow women because of all of this repeated, systemic, behavior of the "oopsing the men" thing, which I consider the most vicious form of abuse that you can commit upon a) the man in your life whom you profess to love and b) the soul of that future child who is not going to have a daddy - just a sperm donor who is angry and bitter at the woman who oopsed him. (And rightly so.)
The "war of the sexes" that was so programmed into society into the 60's and 70's (via the feminist movement which was so manipulated by the powers that be) is now becoming, in my opinion, "the war over sex." Who determines the act of procreation, when it happens, under which conditions, and with the participation of which people.
This power is in women's hands for the most part (except in the case of rape,) and I have to say I'm very saddened at all I see happening around this issue for men.
Men on this board who wish to remain childfree, I can say from observation that the best thing for you is to get a vasectomy now - then it's a done thing. The men I know with vasectomies are SO happy. And they can focus on loving others without worrying about becoming a victim of a deceptive woman's biological clock. (Because women can get REALLY insane when that kicks in. I know many who had one night stands without protection just to get the sperm donation. So casual dating isn't safe, either! Do you want to have child support payments and have your paychecks garnished if you don't fork up just because you met some woman in a bar whose sole agenda was to get some guy to knock her up? Latest estimates say that is takes about $750,000 to raise a child to adult age. Do you have that money sitting around? )
A HUGE number of women I've observed go into relationships with men who are saying that they don't want kids and are completely disregarding this man's ability to make decisions about his procreating or not procreating......going INTO the relationship with the agenda of "I'll change his mind later, one way or another." If talking about kids doesn't make the guy more receptive, she'll have an oops.
Especially common is "But I thought you were on the Pill? How could you get pregnant?" and her saying "I was on the Pill - but in a small percentage of cases, you still get pregnant." And the guy going, "Oh well."
Women can get pregnant on the Pill. But usually when they tell men this, it's a lie in my observation. You'll find that they haven't been taking it for a while. And did you know that in the first three months after a woman stops taking the Pill, she is EXTREMELY fertile? The hormones are adjusting to the change and snap back in a BIG way. So if the woman goes off the Pill for just ONE MONTH her chances of getting preggers go way up. One month of lying to their partner, or their partner not evening noticing that she's throwing the pills away, is all it takes, guys.
So - moral of the story, childfree guys? Get snipped.
And if a woman isn't into you enough to enjoy the idea of spending a life together with you as her sole soulmate, and she needs kids to be happy and fulfilled, then she's not right for you (if your intention is to remain childfree.) Be clear about this.
Personally, I love my guy way too much to share him with anybody else, rugrat or not!
PS There are a lot of cool childfree by choice groups and forums on the Net - if the childfree reading this thread are looking to connect with others who share the childfree by choice outlook.
Childfree by choice is different from "childless." "Childless" implies the loss of something. "Childfree" connotates liberation from something - i.e. liberation from contributing to the slave state
That's why we're all here after all.
And the co-worker was genuinely enthused to be around them, grinning and happy about seeing them.
