16 (edited by montalk 2006-04-24 14:52:33)

Re: Oil Prices

$4.46/gallon in the UK vs $3.00/gallon in the US. Sounds like we in America have it good and shouldn't complain until gasoline reaches $4.50/gallon here, but let's not forget our transportation infrastructure is crap compared to what the European countries can do with all their extra petrol tax revenue, and you can drive from one place to any other place in a country there in less than a day. If we were to pay $4.46/gallon here, it better come with new pavement, new mass transportation systems, free fuel efficiency upgrades, and a miraculous four-fold reduction in distances between cities just to make things equal. Otherwise all that extra $$ goes straight toward corporate profits without any returns in public services. Gee, I can't wait for aliens to show up and rescue us from Peak Oil with their wonderful free energy technology.

Acquiring fringe knowledge is like digging for diamonds in a mine field.

Re: Oil Prices

Welcome to the future...
http://jeugdsentiment.beket.nl/gallery/albums/2004april/flinstones.jpg

Bye, Pictus

--------------------
http://pictus.co.nr

18 (edited by lyra 2006-04-24 15:05:36)

Re: Oil Prices

Marcus wrote:

Slowly edging up then.  It cost you $30 per tank now - how much did it cost for a full tank say 8-10 years ago?

Well, ten years ago you could get gas in middle America for .89/.99 cents a gallon!!   (Remember that everybody!  Wow, huh?)  I went on a cross country road trip from California to Connecticut in 1995, and it was .99 in many places, and at the most, premium was $1.30.  So it cost me about $10 to fill up the entire tank in my then-Nissan Sentra.

I remember working as a hostess/cashier at a restaurant in 1994, and one of my fellow hostesses would be happy if she made $5 in tips for a night doing to-go orders.   For her, that would give her half a tank of gas and keep her going for the rest of the week.   She would say "Cool, gas money!"

Ha, not anymore.   

In 1994-1995 in California it cost me $10 to fill up my Nissan. By 1998 it cost me $12.  By 2000-01, it was about $15.  By 2004 in Florida it was $22 for my Mazda, (which is pretty much the same type of car).   Now it's minimum, $30.

I can see us getting to the point where a regular small car like mine will soon need $50 to fill it. 

$50 used to be what my boss in California had to pay to fill her GMC Suburban gas guzzler monster back in 2001.



Marcus wrote:

I wonder if it  the impact of oil prices will play out different in each country though?  I mean the public in different cultures US / UK / French etc. have different ways of dealing with these things.

Oh, indeed.  America is very spread out compared to many areas of urban Europe, which means that many people have to commute quite a few miles to work every day, and they're going to be in a world of trouble if prices continue to rise, or even stay at the current rates.  Many smaller cities and towns here are not equipped with good public transportation systems either.  Admittedly, Portland Oregon has the best public transportation system I've seen anywhere.   Every street in the city is covered practically, and the busses start in the early am and run into the late evening.  But America being what America is, relies heavily on its cars.  Everybody has to have a car, or two, or three.  And the majority don't seem willing to walk, ride a bike or take a bus.  America is spoiled, it's used to having the luxury of living in wide open spaces and just being able to hop in their cars to get anywhere, so wide open spaces and being all spread out isn't an issue.   America is going to have to become more acquainted with carpooling, busses, walking, or biking.   It'll be interesting to see how people respond to that, if they're willing to do it.



Marcus wrote:

Thing is...like you Lyra, the petrol price doesn't affect me in and off itself...I rarely have need to use the car now-a-days.  A full tank lasts me 2 to 3 weeks (at about  £32 per tank).  My living costs are fairly high though  £575 for rent per month, plus a few debts still remaining...but in all our living costs are faily low compaired to the "average" persons.

For those who can't afford it, they're going to have to start cutting back on extra expenses, no doubt, and learn how to curb excess spending, and live below their means in order to keep up.   Which isn't a bad thing actually.   Also, depending on where I'm temping, I can also usually get my tank to last 2 - 3 weeks.   But I'm learning to try to no longer take superficial trips here, there and everywhere anymore, and to combine trips with Tom for like going to the supermarket and other places.  Adjustments are already having to be made.  wink   But, it's do-able. 


Marcus wrote:

Interesting observations about Portland...

Totally.  wink   I had the light bulb moment of inspiration to check, but I wasn't actually seriously expecting to see my hunch pan out!   Yet, it also didn't surprise me.  I felt like, "HA!!!  I KNEW IT!!!!  I KNEW IT!!!!!"  when I saw that, practically pointing at the computer screen.  big_smile  haha    Then I began checking all the other cities one by one, and sure enough, nothing tops good ol' Portland yet.   "Hey!  I have an idea!  Let's pay really low wages in this state....Have a rampant unemployment issue.........steer everybody onto crystal meth and alcohol........and charge them the highest gas prices in the nation to boot!   mmmwaaahahahahahahaha!"

"Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting "Holy shit ... what a ride!"  - Anonymous
-----
"I get by with a little help from my (higher density) friends."
-----

Re: Oil Prices

montalk wrote:

$4.46/gallon in the UK vs $3.00/gallon in the US. Sounds like we in America have it good and shouldn't complain until gasoline reaches $4.50/gallon here, but let's not forget our transportation infrastructure is crap compared to what the European countries can do with all their extra petrol tax revenue, and you can drive from one place to any other place in a country there in less than a day. If we were to pay $4.46/gallon here, it better come with new pavement, new mass transportation systems, free fuel efficiency upgrades, and a miraculous four-fold reduction in distances between cities just to make things equal. Otherwise all that extra $$ goes straight toward corporate profits without any returns in public services. Gee, I can't wait for aliens to show up and rescue us from Peak Oil with their wonderful free energy technology.

Indeed.  I don't think compairing fuel prices country to country gives a correct perspective.  That's part of what I was getting at with the different cultures reacting differently thing.  High oil prices mean the samething to everyone - but each in different ways.  It wouldn't be that hard for me to get around without a car.  However, when I was in Florida it was a mighty task just to get to the nearest 7/11.

Don't believe that the tax from the UK fuel (over 80% of the price is tax), goes back into the transportation - at least not in the UK.  Public transportation anywhere other than London and the larger cities is pretty poor (probably better than the US though?).

Would be interesting to see how NR members from other countries are affected by this.  Particually any from eastern-europe, or the middle-east areas...

Re: Oil Prices

Let the bicycle revolution begin!

http://forum.noblerealms.org/viewtopic.php?id=2187

You can't change a tiger's stripes,
but you can avoid its teeth.

Re: Oil Prices

CortexVortex wrote:

moguls buying up farmland- I can absolutely see that scenario being played out.

Then we'll have the monsters at Monsanto and ADM fully in bed with the petro companies... go ahead and form your own conclusions.

Remember also that petro is used widely in pharma as well as plastics manufacturing- it's entirely possible that even without gas being a source of profit, they'd still be giants.

Yep, that's just it.  They already have most of the remaining farmers (and thus, farms) in their back-pockets, actually.  They used other countries imported frozen veggies and such to force American farmers into their back pockets.  See, the farms here can't sell their foods so easily anymore -- so its either bow to the almighty food corps, or sell the farm to them.  Either way, they lose out big-time.  Either way, they are not paid anywhere near what they're worth.

The monsters at Monsanto et al, also have the existing farmers in a way most people dont realize yet.  You know all those genetically-modified crops + seeds out there?  Yeah, well... what happens when a wind catches their pollen and carries it over to poor Farmer Joe's independent farmland?  Thats right, Farmer Joe ends up with some GM company's patented seed.  If you can't guess what happens afterwards, let me just say Farmer Joe doesn't quite own his crops anymore.  And he's now up for patent infringement to boot.  So nature (wind etc) does the GM companies' dirty work for them.  From what I've heard their seeds are engineered specifically to spread like the wild plague.

But anyway, oil companies, GM crop companies, big food companies, electric companies, phone companies and drug companies -- and probably any other big industries you can think of -- are all in bed together anyway.  You can bet huge portions of them are all owned by those same very few rich families, otherwise known as the PTB.

It's already happened, folks.  We just haven't smelled it yet.

This is no time for the righteous
Only the wicked survive
Bake up a batch of the Yellow Cake
Bake up a batch of the lies
- - - - -[ Yellow Cake - Ministry - Rio Grande Blood (2006)

Re: Oil Prices

The oilprices in the UK are indeed around the 1  £UK per liter at this time.
But...converted to US$ per gallon, it's a LOT higher than 4.46 $ /gallon.

1 US gallon equals 3.785412 liters (I don't know why a UK gallon is 4.546092 liters, but that seems so...)

1 UK £=1.78 US$

Then... a US gallon would cost 1.78 * 3.78 = 6.73 US$ per gallon

I remember when I drove from Macon to Valdaosta in Georgia in the mid 90's...and paid 59 cents a gallon then... Times have changed.

And in Paris the oilprices are now close to 6$ a gallon too (when making the conversions).

Re: Oil Prices

Spiegel wrote:

The oilprices in the UK are indeed around the 1  £UK per liter at this time.
But...converted to US$ per gallon, it's a LOT higher than 4.46 $ /gallon.

1 US gallon equals 3.785412 liters (I don't know why a UK gallon is 4.546092 liters, but that seems so...)

1 UK £=1.78 US$

AAAARGH!
I used the equivalent of a kilometer to a mile (1.6), not the equivalent of a liter to a quart (1.06)!

Sorry guys.

Thanks Spiegel for correcting me.

Magis Amica Veritas

I would rather control myself, than someone else.

en courage (heart)
in spire (spirit)
en thuse (theos)

24 (edited by lyra 2006-04-26 12:36:30)

Re: Oil Prices

An article about the resurgence of mopeds due to the rise in gas prices:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/csm/20060425/ts_csm/amoped_1

It's a goofy article though in that it tries too hard to make it a cool generational social statement sort of thing, instead of recognizing that if gas were still .99 cents a gallon, people in America still wouldn't care about mopeds and barely anybody would be driving them.

"Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting "Holy shit ... what a ride!"  - Anonymous
-----
"I get by with a little help from my (higher density) friends."
-----

Re: Oil Prices

Or are mopeds experiencing a "resurgence" due to more people drinking and driving and using gas prices as an excuse (I state this somewhat serious and somewhat joking) this is more of a $0.02 comment than a question.

Peace,
Teddy

"It means the Matrix can't tell you who you are" - Trinity

26 (edited by whywhywhy 2006-04-26 07:33:02)

Re: Oil Prices

The price of crude oil has been on the rising for quite some time.  Below is a graph depicting the price per barrel in the open market between 2002 & 2005.

http://img265.imageshack.us/img265/179/oilrisingcost6mn.jpg


Yet, the cost for extracting & reserve developing is still hovering at $5/barrel.  This cost does not include taxes which can be quite high (if we guess 100% the total cost will be 10$/BBL).  The Joint Economic Committee United States Congress published a report on this matter on November 2005.

Excerpt from the report,

Chairman Jim Saxton (R-NJ)
Joint Economic Committee United States Congress
November 2005
OPEC AND THE HIGH PRICE OF OIL
A JOINT ECONOMIC COMMITTEE STUDY


Joint Economic Committee 433 Cannon House Office Building Washington, DC 20515 Phone: 202-226-3234 Fax: 202-226-3950 Internet Address: http://www.house.gov/jec/

Executive Summary

Crude oil is an abundant resource. Production cost in the Middle East is less than $5 per barrel and even in higher cost areas is nowhere near today’s price. A key reason for high oil prices is the artificial scarcity imposed on the market by the OPEC cartel, which controls 70 percent of the world’s known oil reserves and restricts how much oil reaches consumers.

OPEC also aggravates price volatility. It cannot manipulate its rate of output to match changing market conditions precisely and thus causes or magnifies swings in the supply and the price of oil. OPEC conceals important industry information and is not forthright in sharing its output plans and price objectives. Transparency International ranks most OPEC members near the bottom of its worldwide corruption index. Given the capital intensity of oil operations, the cartel's behavior increases risk and uncertainty for non-member investors and slows their market responses.

OPEC today barely produces more crude oil than it did in 1977. It held its output quotas below the level it had set in early 1998 until April of 2005. Yet by year-end 2005, OPEC’s net oil import revenue will have more than doubled over a 3-year period, reaching an estimated $430 billion, up from $193 billion in 2002. Developing countries are paying an increasing portion of this revenue. Non-OECD countries now account for 40 percent of world crude oil consumption.

Rising oil demand from developing countries has been met with output restriction and underdevelopment of oil reserves by OPEC. The resulting dramatic price increases likely are setting in motion market forces that eventually may bring the price down, as happened subsequent to the oil price peaks of the 1970’s. In the meantime, OPEC’s role in the price escalation should be exposed and not be obscured by misconceptions about oil resource depletion. There is plenty of oil in the ground.

For a full copy of this report go here,

http://www.house.gov/jec/publications/1 … 05opec.pdf

The genral rule of thumb in terms of cost based on geographical location is:

Middle East < Nigeria/Africa < Mexico/Venezuela <<<<<< USA

Regards,

Lee

Re: Oil Prices

Mopeds are cool !
I almost bought one in 2002.

Bye, Pictus

--------------------
http://pictus.co.nr

Re: Oil Prices

I just got this e-mail today:

Join the resistance!!!! I hear we are going to hit close to $4.00 a gallon by next summer and it might go higher!! Want gasoline prices to come down? We need to take some intelligent, united action. Phillip Hollsworth offered this good idea.


This makes MUCH MORE SENSE than the "don't buy gas on a certain day" campaign that was going around last April or May! The oil companies just laughed at that because they knew we wouldn't continue to "hurt" ourselves by refusing to buy gas. It was more of an inconvenience to us than it was a problem for them.

BUT, whoever thought of this idea has come up w ith a plan that can really work. Please read on and join with us! By now you're probably thinking gasoline priced at about $1.50 is super cheap.  Me too! It is currently $2.79 for regular unleaded in my town. Now that the oil companies and the OPEC nations have conditioned us to think that the cost of a gallon of gas is CHEAP at $1.50 - $1.75, we need to take aggressive a ction to teach them that BUYERS control the
marketplace..... not sellers. With the price of gasoline going up more each day, we consumers need to take action. The only way we are going to see the price of gas come down is if we hit someone in the pocketbook by not purcha sing their gas! And, we can do that WITHOUT hurting ourselves. How? Since we all rely on our cars, we can't just stop buying gas. But we CAN have an impact on gas prices if we all act together to force a price war.

Here's the idea:

For the rest of this year, DON'T purchase ANY gasoline from the two biggest companies (which now are one), EXXON and MOBIL. If they are not selling any gas, they will be inclined to reduce their prices. If they reduce their prices, the other companies will have to follow suit.

But to have an impact, we need to reach literally millions of Exxon and Mobil gas buyers.  It's really simple to do! Now, don't wimp out at this point.... keep reading and I'l l explain how simple it is to reach millions of people.

I am sending this note to 30 people. If each of us sends it to at least ten more (30 x 10 =3D 300) ... and those 300 send it to at least ten more (300 x 10 =3D 3,000)...and so on, by the time the message reaches the sixth group of people, we will have reached over THREE MILLION consumers. If those three million get excited and pass this on to ten friends each, then 30 m illion people will have been contacted! If it goes one level further, you guessed it..... THREE HUNDRED MILLION PEOPLE!!!

Again, all you have to d o is send this to 10 people. That's all. (If you don't understand how we can reach 300 million and all you have to do is send this to 10 people.... Well, let's face it, you just aren't a mathematician. But I am, so trust me on this one.)

How long would all that take? If each of us sends this e-mail out to ten more people within one day of receipt, all 300 MILLION people could conceivably be contacted within the next 8 days!!!

I'll bet you didn't think you and I had that much potential, did you?

Acting together we can make a difference. If this makes sense to you, please pass this message on. I suggest that we not buy from EXXON/MOBIL UNTIL THEY LOWER THEIR PRICES TO THE $1.30 RANGE AND KEEP THEM DOWN.

THIS CAN REALLY WORK.

Maybe I have a suspicious mind, but I wonder if BP, Chevron or another major gasoline producer has something to do with this e-mail.  Theoretically, the scheme may work to some extend, yet I rather everybody cut back on gasoline consumption and hurt them all (temporarily that is.......).

Regards,

Lee

29 (edited by Risen 2006-04-29 22:10:40)

Re: Oil Prices

Let me just throw in 2 cents here, if I may.

Everyone is quick to blame everyone else in this Oil thing.  We blame the oil companies, the oil companies blame OPEC, opec blames the earth for not making enough, etc.  -- A neverending circle.

But let me point the finger at the #1 entity which has the power to cut gas prices drastically:

The US Government.

Over half the price of gasoline we see at the pump, is US and STATE TAXES.

That's right.  So if they cut those, you would be paying 1.50/gallon.

Plain and simple.

--
ps.  Furthermore, they are the biggest entity with the power to stomp a mudhole in the asses of the oil companies.  But you wont see them do that either.  Bow to the corporations, us government, and serve your gods well.

This is no time for the righteous
Only the wicked survive
Bake up a batch of the Yellow Cake
Bake up a batch of the lies
- - - - -[ Yellow Cake - Ministry - Rio Grande Blood (2006)

Re: Oil Prices

Risen wrote:

But let me point the finger at the #1 entity which has the power to cut gas prices drastically:

The US Government.

Over half the price of gasoline we see at the pump, is US and STATE TAXES.

That's right.  So if they cut those, you would be paying 1.50/gallon.

Plain and simple.

Hi Risen,

Yes, a big portion of what we pay per gallon of gasoline is federal and state taxes, but consider this.  Less than a year ago I was paying $1.49/gal at the pump and today I pay $2.89/gal.  What is wrong with that picture?  Almost a 100% increase in less than 12 months caused by the greed of a handful of people more concern with their pockets than the general public well being.  The Government is going to do NOTHING about this matter.   Why?  Our Government is a lap dog for the Board of Directors of several global industrial giants. 

Regards,

Lee