• Registered: 2005-09-22

Topic: Alan Watt crucifies David Icke

"The trick that's been used in ancient civilizations was to convince the public that nothing was real at all, you see. And once you've convinced them of that, you've dominated them, because whatever you do to them doesn't matter since nothing's real. And that's the usual spiel of psychological warfare which is put out by certain individuals even today. For and on behalf of the big boys. It's so easy to control vast civilizations and populations when whenever you do anything to them it doesn't matter because nothing's real, IT's ALL ILLUSION. An illusion, by definition, is really, it's not a hallucination; a hallucination is not real at all, you see, that's what it means. An illusion is a distortion of reality, so we should be very clear on the terms that are used. And people who are taught that this is not really happening and all the nasty things are not really happening, can retreat into their (indistinct) and go on forever, or at least for as long as those who control the physical allow it because that's what it boils down to." - Alan Watt

Download the mp3 here, it's entitled "Mass Mind Control (Why Your Parents are Really Screwed Up)":

http://www.cuttingthroughthematrix.com

The funny thing is, David Icke said almost the same thing a few days ago (APRIL 5TH on TALKSPORT - download below*) :

"If you can give what you believe a name ("Infinite love is the only truth, everything else is an illusion" - that's a name, IMHO), um, then I think, you know, you're in a prison. Cause once you give what you believe a name then you start having rules and regulations and building walls around it... The way the system works is they're trying to trap people in belief systems. And those that they can't trap in the belief system of "this is all a cosmic accident and when you go you disappear and it's just all a cosmic accident and we're a chemical process and basically when you die you go into oblivion." If they can't get them with Judaism, if they can't get them with Hinduism, if they can't get them with Islam and Christianity, then there are other people who are open to the fact that, hey, you know, it's all about VIBRATIONS (his first book was called "Truth Vibrations") and we can create our own reality (he says this all the time, see the next sentence). YOU NEED TO ENTRAP THEM IN A BELIEF SYSTEM AND TO A LARGE EXTENT I THINK THAT THE GURU-LED SIDE OF THE NEW AGE (is there a better example of this than David Icke?) IS AN ENTRAPMENT and it's going through that that takes you to the gold mine which is realizing that it's all an illusion and we're controlling the illusion if we want to take control of it. (didn't he just mock that idea in the last sentence?)

* http://www.megaupload.com/?d=7I8ZWOAW

  • montalk
  • montalk
  • forum-keeper-upper
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  • Registered: 2004-03-24

Re: Alan Watt crucifies David Icke

Sometimes the notion of illusion has an effect opposite that of pacification:

[...]

Dreams are a key element in understanding reality.

We all experience dreams as we sleep. As our body rests, our minds continuously operate. When experiencing a dream, how do you know if you are awake or not? And when you are awake, how do you know if you are dreaming? The unnatural, muddled, often confusing sequence of events, and the idea that you "wake up", are the only indicators that allow you to realize you were dreaming. The natural, constantly aware, and logically progressive sequence of events that we all experience, allows us to realize that we have to be awake. You can logically track what you do each day from the time you get out of bed, to the time you get back into bed. The reason we trick ourselves for a moment or extended moments into excepting the dream as being "real", is because in terms of reality, a dream is exactly as realistic as the reality you perceive when you are "awake."

Our reality/what we experience, is based on what we can see, touch, smell, taste, and hear. This is how we know if something is "real." As a consciousness/soul/spirit, you are constantly painting a reality in which you can see, touch, smell, taste, and hear, things. When you go to sleep you produce realities, and when you wake up you again produce more reality. Yes you have been producing everything that you have been experiencing, while sleeping, and awake, all of your life! Now you are probably starting to realize just how special we all are. We are all extremely specialized beings, and the idea that you are not aware of this fact is disturbing to me.

In being spiritually well rounded, you begin to understand yourself!

Mentally, and physically, you produce your own reality.

If you can think it, you can experience it.

As you all begin to realize the potential you have as a consciousness/soul/spirit, you will begin to harness the abilities you have to produce realities. All of us have such elaborate imaginations. You experience this directly as you dream. The ability to create (anything in your own reality) will be utilized as a tool for yourself (and/or others) when experiencing life outside of the body. Frankly, I can't wait! Just imagine the possibilities we all have as eternal beings! This is only the beginning, friends!

We have much to learn.

Earth is a beautiful place wouldn't you say. There is so much beauty to be found everywhere. There are so many beautiful things, all by design. The three, least advanced, levels of consciousness reside here. Earth is a training ground for these stages of consciousness. If you are reading this, then you obviously have chosen to be a part of this Earth experience. And because of that choice, you now understand what is like to love, be loved, be confused, happy, sad, and the list of emotions goes on forever. Most of us have been through numerous life cycles for the purpose of gaining these emotions/experiences. If you don't experience it then how can you possibly understand it?

Earth is a situation in which millions of consciousnesses coexist. While you dream, you are within yourself, producing the reality you imagine. Because you are producing the reality entirely, you are not confined to the laws of physics, you can take control, and do anything you can imagine. The practice of becoming aware while dreaming, and controlling the dream, is known as lucid dreaming. While awake, you enter a reality within your body. As we have found, Earth is a reality dictated by the laws of physics (gravity, matter, energy, etc). Our reality on earth was set up for the purpose of producing an effective learning environment. We learn through experiencing the opposite. Would you realize how great you had it if you had not realized how terrible you could have had it? You experience pain to understand what pleasure is. Remember, experience/learn something first hand to understand something.

What happens when the body dies?

Imagine how confusing is must be to be taken away from everything that you have known. When your body dies, you are simply, out of your body. Problems arise when individuals "get out" and they aren't aware of what to do next. Many conciousnesses linger around on earth, clutching to material things; this is what ghosts are. Many consciousnesses get out and aimlessly wander, unaware of their divine potential. Individuals who commit suicide, for the purpose of escaping their problems, get out of their bodies to find themselves contaminated with the same sadness, and often find themselves even more confused. Inaccurate death perceptions, and Misunderstood, Age-old religions/dogmas are the direct cause of these dysfunctional results. Understanding the truth will only direct/guide consciousnesses that are revisiting life on the other side. You are free to do anything when you are out of the body! Understanding yourself will only provide direction for you!

There are no rules out of the body.

The body is a temporary learning experience.

[...]

This is from the manifesto by Luke Helder, the young guy who placed bombs in mailboxes to form a smiley-face pattern across the US map.

The proper understanding of how reality is illusion - and illusion is reality - is essential for transcending limitations. It's in taking the wrong things too seriously that we build prisons for ourselves through our fears. But it's also in taking the right things not seriously enough that we shoot ourselves in the foot. So David Icke has a huge experience in Brazil and sees how all is illusion. Great, now come back to earth and integrate this properly with the realistic side of things. So Alan Watt sees the conspiratorial side of the "illusion" idea. Great, now that he's identified a serious pitfall how about acknowledging a better way to apply the illusion=reality concept? Good thing we have the luxury of seeing this from the sidelines and getting to pick the best of both.

Acquiring fringe knowledge is like digging for diamonds in a mine field.

montalk's Website

  • Registered: 2004-10-15

Re: Alan Watt crucifies David Icke

This simply reminds me of how Steiner explained things.

Luciferic consciousness = that which sees the world as entirely spiritual.  It, tends not to accept the physical world, instead all it can see is the spiritual non-physical world.  Luciferic consciousness understands the nature of the non-physical world, as it is able to directly experience it.  However it rejects the intellectual world.

Ahrimanic consciousness = that which can only see the physical world.  It out rightly rejects the spiritual non-physical world...it cannot understand it.  Ahrimanic consciousness can only understand that which it can perceive with its own five senses.  It is also only capable of understanding the world, situations and concepts on a purely intellectual level.


People tend to dance from one side of the coin to the other – never realizing they are two sides of the same coin.  As montalk just said though, the beauty of this is that we can stand back and see, understand and experience both sides simultaneously…and then learn how to integrate them together into a third type of consciousness.

Thought Manifestation

Marcus's Website

  • From: Zion
  • Registered: 2004-09-28

Re: Alan Watt crucifies David Icke

Marcus wrote:

People tend to dance from one side of the coin to the other – never realizing they are two sides of the same coin.  As montalk just said though, the beauty of this is that we can stand back and see, understand and experience both sides simultaneously…and then learn how to integrate them together into a third type of consciousness.

That being multidimensional consciousness. One reality is no more real than any other. Dismissing any reality as simply "illusory" is eventually going to get you in a shit load of trouble (my apologies once again, Mr. Icke). Wherever your consciousness is focused is whatever is real for you at that moment, be it physical or non-physical. There is actually little difference. True that physical reality is a collective reality, and includes rules we all agree to abide by during our stay; true that non-physical reality holds no such laws. But that doesn't mean that non-physical reality is inherently more preferable, or vice versa. There is a reason for our being here. Obviously Luke Helder is an intelligent human being, but seems rather lacking in an ability to utilize his esoteric knowledge in a meaningful way during his current incarnational experience. It's always so easy to dismiss reality as an illusion, but you gain absolutely nothing in doing so. Luke Helder obviously thought that his potential as a consciousness/soul/spirit was in putting pipe bombs into mailboxes. Now he's in prison. Good! He's an idiot, and a moron, regardless of his astral experiences. Finding balance is the key to avoiding such extreme delusional behavior that results when one moves too far towards Luciferic or Ahrimanic consciousness: "Hey, nothing is real, I can do whatever I want, so lets blow shit up for the hell of it!" "Oh dear, its all so real, and I'm too powerless to do anything meaningful about any of it." No need to make big, stupid gestures like Mr. Helder. You just do what you need to do, get the experiences that you need, then get the hell outta here :-)

"Fear is the great barrier to human growth. Unknowns create fears. When these Unknowns become Knowns the fears diminish and disappear, and we are able to cope with whatever confronts us." - Robert A. Monroe
  • From: IL
  • Registered: 2006-05-24

Re: Alan Watt crucifies David Icke

I agree with you, Neo. 

And I couldn't help but share this News Article about someone else who couldn't differentiate between the "real" and "spiritual".  May be wrong of me, but I couldn't help but laugh.

"Sometimes I wonder whether the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it." ~ Mark Twain
  • Registered: 2006-01-13

Re: Alan Watt crucifies David Icke

Marcus wrote:

People tend to dance from one side of the coin to the other – never realizing they are two sides of the same coin.

Instead of trying to decide which side of the coin they're on, they should just spend it . . .

Magis Amica Veritas

I would rather control myself, than someone else.

en courage (heart)
in spire (spirit)
en thuse (theos)