16 (edited by montalk 2006-04-20 00:34:46)

Re: The theory of Organic Portals and David Icke

Visavis wrote:

What if the OP-types actually were born with normal souls, as in fully human, but eventually over time got rid of their soul essence through the choices the made and through spiritual lethargy / being overtaken bit by bit.

Yes, great observation, that does sound plausible to me. I lean towards a mixture of both possibilities, that some are born that way while others become empty through a process of "auric death." The possibility of reanimation or duplication could also factor into certain cases. Regardless, the proportion of vacant shells seems to increase with age group, meaning not all are born that way.

Elementary and junior high school is when I first began noticing that a chunk of the student body had something missing in them, and it was these same ones who later displayed more and more of the characteristics that have been mentioned in the OP theory. Nevertheless, as Lyra pointed out there are examples of people who change into shadows of their former selves over time. So that's why I think it could be a mixture of both.

I'm currently reading Zhuan Falun, the primary text of the Falun Gong folks. It mentions another possibility - animal entity attachments. Yes, being possessed or cohabited by the soul of an animal, like a snake or a fox. I had not considered that possibility before, but it's something to think about. Will do some posts on the Zhuan Falun after finishing reading it. You can find this book online here.

Acquiring fringe knowledge is like digging for diamonds in a mine field.

17 (edited by Marcus 2006-04-20 01:04:37)

Re: The theory of Organic Portals and David Icke

montalk wrote:

I'm currently reading Zhuan Falun, the primary text of the Falun Gong folks. It mentions another possibility - animal entity attachments. Yes, being possessed or cohabited by the soul of an animal, like a snake or a fox. I had not considered that possibility before, but it's something to think about. Will do some posts on the Zhuan Falun after finishing reading it. You can find this book online here.

I have heard this before, except it was from a Zen Budhist (can't remember his name).  Basically he made the same point - that many people had "animal" souls, and that is why they had such low vibes and behave in reactive almost animalistic manner - from lower instictive drives.

He had quite an interesting yet simple theory as to why this is happening; it was to do with the tremendous population boom.  Before world war 2 there were about 1 billion people on the planet, that number had been reached very slowly over hundreds of years.  This allowed time for enough human souls to come about and mature to a level suitable for a human being.

After world war 2 though there was a massive population boom - we now have closer to 7 billion people on the planet, that's 6 billion extra in the space of 60 years.  His point - "Where do you think all those extra souls came from?"

Re: The theory of Organic Portals and David Icke

montalk wrote:

Well, I cannot speak for Icke, but my intentions are to incorporate as many observations as possible into a coherent theory, observations that go unacknowledged in more simplistic theories. So for instance, my observations are that a certain spectrum of people have similar flat vibes, similar glib behavioral patterns, similar emptiness behind the eyes, and so on. The question is how to account for this. If you discard a theory as BS, then to avoid throwing the observations out with the interpretation, it would be necessary to come up with a better theory that acknowledges those observations. I've been on the lookout for a better theory, but have so far come up empty handed. Whether something is BS depends on how well it accounts for the facts, not on whether it is politically correct.

I have the same problem explaining this stuff as you do. I can't explain it but I do feel that classifying some people as sub-human (especially when their's no fair criteria for what qualifies as this) is just something I can't do.

montalk wrote:

The "Red Dress" scene was another training simulator to teach a lesson about the real Matrix. It's like doing a driving simulator and having to watch out for that virtual toddler that might run out in front of you. The point of "beware the toddler in the striped shirt" is that such a thing may happen for real when you're out driving. The "woman in the red dress" was virtual just like all the other simulated people in that scene, but it wasn't until she came along that Neo stopped listening to Morpheus. She simulated the matrix distraction that would have gotten Neo killed by an Agent in the real Matrix. If the simulation were never relevant to the Matrix, Morpheus wouldn't have taken Neo into it in the first place. Well, that's my interpretation at least.

All I was saying was that Icke's analogy (at least the way it was explained in the quote) doesn't hold up to scrutiny. I wasn't saying that his observation wasn't important. You made some great points, thank you.

19 (edited by z3n3rg 2006-04-20 05:02:22)

Re: The theory of Organic Portals and David Icke

It's War!  Adults are like the soldiers that have been on the front lines for months or longer.  They have that 1,000 yard stare.  Operate in fully automatic mode.  And suppress their personalities.

My own thoughts are that the soul goes into a coma after awhile.  It turns dark.  The childhood spark is gone.  The human disconnects and starts to show the signs of a soldier in the battlefield.  It replaces the soul with the ego.  The ego can be fed quite easily.  Where as the soul is more difficult to feed in our society.  Once that spark has went out it takes a lot to respark it.  It looks like so many have just given up and go on autopilot.

The definition of organic portal as given by the Cs was a human body that was ready for graduating animal souls.  They also stated that it's currently balanced;  3 billion souled and 3 billion OPs.  The OPs could possibly be inhabited by animal souls. 

The other thing is that if the OP theory is correct, these are humans.  Humans have massive brain capacity and all the wiring for emotions.  They are in no way "sub-human" as they are by definition human.  And any advanced intelligence will attract soul matter and create a soul imprint.  The more seeking and learning the denser the soul imprint will become.  The denser the imprint the more ability to attract more soul matter.  It's a snowball effect.

However, given the extreme pervasive negativity in society, I can see how it would be difficult to use this soul energy for positive purposes.  Most likely it would be used to seek additional power to compensate for the feelings of disempowerment.  Society is a constant attacking mechanism.  The ego is the response to this mechanism.  Any higher energy aquired by an individual may be used to compensate for the energy taken from it throughout it's childhood.  In other words, it would seek to become the predator instead of the prey.


Edit to add...

I can't directly comment on Icke's words.  To be completely honest I don't like reading his work.  It's like when I tried to read IT by Stephen King.  It's just way too wordy for my taste.  Get to the friggin point.  It's an evil clown that lives in the sewer and feeds on fear.  But yea, I don't think I'll ever read any large amount of Icke's work.  I don't find it necessary.  Give me the basics and I'll test them in real-life in real-time and use my own mind to fill in the blanks.

20 (edited by onionworld 2006-04-20 05:10:05)

Re: The theory of Organic Portals and David Icke

lyra wrote:

As much as I *can* believe in the theory due to what I've seen of the - adults - out there in the world, the fact is, I have to admit that I (usually, not always...) don't see that level of non-sentience and bizarro behavior going on with kids.  It's like, kids are normal.........most all of them........then something happens.  Not all of them will make it to the "finish line" you could possibly say.

I saw this first hand when I was a substitute teacher. I substituted grades K-12 in about 10 public school districts in Michigan. The thing I noticed over time was the difference in the vibrancy, vitality, joy, emotional awareness, passion, intelligence, vitality (just about every good characteristic) between the different grades. What almost invariably happened was that these good qualities dissapated as the students got older. After a while, it just killed me. It really hit me once when I was teaching an 11th grade class after subbing for a 6th grade class the day before. The difference couldn't be more striking. Overall, the 6th grade students were far more vibrant, passionate, and full of joy. The 11th graders, overall, were like a bunch of zombies by comparison. It was too much for me when understood what was happening, I was broken hearted.

A lot of NWO researchers believe that the elite have planned this (killing people's souls and intellect) and it is executed in public schools. In other words, the public school system is designed to destroy people's souls and it seems to be working. I've heard Jeff Rense, David Icke, Alan Watt, and Alex Jones talk about this.

lyra wrote:

I'm leaning more towards this theory, and it feel far more comfortable for me than the other.  Again, only because I've witnessed this discrepancy.   I see that so many kids are "there."   So what the hell happens to so many adults??

I've witnessed this too and I really agree with what you're saying.

21 (edited by onionworld 2006-04-20 05:20:48)

Re: The theory of Organic Portals and David Icke

z3n3rg wrote:

It's War!  Adults are like the soldiers that have been on the front lines for months or longer.

It's only war for those who are actually fighting against the system. What's that, 2-5% who even make a lame "attempt" (something akin to play-acting) at "fighting" the system? Maybe one in a thousand (ten thousand, a million?) actually dedicates enough of their time to fighting the system to really call it a war, IMHO. Then you've got those who choose not to fight at all and just go off and do their own thing (as Icke points out, the opposite of the following the system is not fighting against it, it's simply leaving it and doing something else), these people are not fighting. Can you still say that they're engaged in a war?

Re: The theory of Organic Portals and David Icke

That which offends you is that which you have imagined . . . whether you realize it consciously or not.

Magis Amica Veritas

I would rather control myself, than someone else.

en courage (heart)
in spire (spirit)
en thuse (theos)

Re: The theory of Organic Portals and David Icke

Lemniscate wrote:

That which offends you is that which you have imagined . . . whether you realize it consciously or not.

"If you hate something, don't you do it too?" - I've experienced that and I've seen it again and again.

Re: The theory of Organic Portals and David Icke

onionworld wrote:
z3n3rg wrote:

It's War!  Adults are like the soldiers that have been on the front lines for months or longer.

It's only war for those who are actually fighting against the system. What's that, 2-5% who even make a lame "attempt" (something akin to play-acting) at "fighting" the system? Maybe one in a thousand (ten thousand, a million?) actually dedicates enough of their time to fighting the system to really call it a war, IMHO. Then you've got those who choose not to fight at all and just go off and do their own thing (as Icke points out, the opposite of the following the system is not fighting against it, it's simply leaving it and doing something else), these people are not fighting. Can you still say that they're engaged in a war?

In one post you speak about kids losing good characteristics in a few short years of school and the next you are saying that there is no war unless you are fighting against the system.  I'm sorry but you're not making any sense.  If there was no war on the mind and soul of humanity then adults would just as vibrant, joyful, passionate, etc. as children are.  Are the innocent people in Iraq that aren't fighting and just going about their daily lives but still get blown up not involved in a war?  I'm not sure what level to give an example of.  I speak of a mental and soul level and you seem to go to the physical level and say there is no war unless you're fighting the system.  Please help me understand where you are coming from.

Re: The theory of Organic Portals and David Icke

Lemniscate wrote:

That which offends you is that which you have imagined . . . whether you realize it consciously or not.

Exactly!  But it is hard to keep even keel.  I wish everybody will remember this statement before responding to a post which they deemed offensive or contrary to their "beliefs".  I have been guilty of it in the past and I am afraid I will transgress in the future but the number of times I do it are reducing and hopefully will continue to do so.

Regards,

Lee

Re: The theory of Organic Portals and David Icke

onionworld wrote:

Maybe one in a thousand (ten thousand, a million?) actually dedicates enough of their time to fighting the system to really call it a war, IMHO. Then you've got those who choose not to fight at all and just go off and do their own thing (as Icke points out, the opposite of the following the system is not fighting against it, it's simply leaving it and doing something else), these people are not fighting. Can you still say that they're engaged in a war?

Interesting.  I think they/we (the people that do their own thing) are fighting, but not 'confronting' the system.  To confront it would be to play by its rules.  The game it plays is rigged, so I really do think there has to be an element of transcendence.  Stuart Wilde talks about this, "the trick is to leave the system without confronting it."  I know I mention him a lot but he has a lot of frigging good ideas.  (There's a couple things that he talks about though, every now and then, don't quite jive with me.)

z3n3rg wrote:

If there was no war on the mind and soul of humanity then adults would just as vibrant, joyful, passionate, etc. as children are.

I belive the war against us IS very real... and 'war' is a great term for it, but we can't fight back on ITS terms.  Also, I've had several dreams that the whole thing is really just prescripted anyways and everything is just playing out as should be.  So I guess my opinion is slanted in that direction, that the 'war' which seems sooooo negative is really ok because it stimulates us to transcend.

Two differing arguments come out of that though - One one hand, you say the Earth has gone from 1 Billion to 6 Billion humans in a short period of time, say 70 years.  So let's say there are roughly 1 Billion whose souls are highly developed enough to transcend this whole mess.  Then there could be another 2 Billion who've developed to a reasonable 3d level in the last 70 years to be given a chance to transcend.  Then that leaves the other 3 Billion with animal or hive-type consciousness and not a lot of accreted individual soul stuff.  They are the stuff that's gonna get recycled in the whole mess.  Maybe?

But an argument against the "everything is fine" theory is that so many souled people are making crappy choices and/or having warlike events happen to them to stimulate fragmentation... to stimulate the other direction.  And how can that be 'ok, as it should be?'

I guess because we live in a Universe of free will, freedom really does come down to choice so maybe a way to provide some solace in this whole thing is to interpret it that way.  I don't know.

Lyra wrote:

I think some souls are very....skittish.  Life becomes far more than they can handle, and they bail out.   Drug usage and extreme unhappiness could have called her soul to fragment off.   And what was left was a mostly empty shell that only progressively got worse over the years.

Isn't there a school of shamanism or something that says the infinite soul can 'see' the first 13 years of life before it incarnates?  It seems to me that if we were gonna put an age number on an averaged-out turning point, that might be a good one.  Perhaps that has something to do with it.  Perhaps if it ain't really anchored in there by 13, it starts to checkout slowly (or not so slowly).  Like it "fulfilled" the 13 year deal...  Hmm.

"The unknown does not incite fear, but dependence on the known does." - J. Krishnamurti

Re: The theory of Organic Portals and David Icke

whywhywhy wrote:
Lemniscate wrote:

That which offends you is that which you have imagined . . . whether you realize it consciously or not.

Exactly!  But it is hard to keep even keel.  I wish everybody will remember this statement before responding to a post which they deemed offensive or contrary to their "beliefs".  I have been guilty of it in the past and I am afraid I will transgress in the future but the number of times I do it are reducing and hopefully will continue to do so.

Regards,

Lee

I'm sorry but I think it's nonsense. So, if you see pictures of the torture going on in the mideast and it offends you, then it's no problem because you only imagined it. What garbage.

Re: The theory of Organic Portals and David Icke

z3n3rg wrote:
onionworld wrote:
z3n3rg wrote:

It's War!  Adults are like the soldiers that have been on the front lines for months or longer.

It's only war for those who are actually fighting against the system. What's that, 2-5% who even make a lame "attempt" (something akin to play-acting) at "fighting" the system? Maybe one in a thousand (ten thousand, a million?) actually dedicates enough of their time to fighting the system to really call it a war, IMHO. Then you've got those who choose not to fight at all and just go off and do their own thing (as Icke points out, the opposite of the following the system is not fighting against it, it's simply leaving it and doing something else), these people are not fighting. Can you still say that they're engaged in a war?

In one post you speak about kids losing good characteristics in a few short years of school and the next you are saying that there is no war unless you are fighting against the system.  I'm sorry but you're not making any sense.  If there was no war on the mind and soul of humanity then adults would just as vibrant, joyful, passionate, etc. as children are.  Are the innocent people in Iraq that aren't fighting and just going about their daily lives but still get blown up not involved in a war?  I'm not sure what level to give an example of.  I speak of a mental and soul level and you seem to go to the physical level and say there is no war unless you're fighting the system.  Please help me understand where you are coming from.

We may be talking symantics here but: war is defined as "A state of open, armed, often prolonged conflict carried on between nations, states, or parties."

What you've described is an attack. Defined as "To make an attack; launch an assault"

In order for it be a war (according to the definition), at least two parties have to be involved in fighting against each other.

Definitions from http://dictionary.reference.com

29 (edited by Barefoot Doc 2006-04-20 07:41:31)

Re: The theory of Organic Portals and David Icke

Possibly another explanation of OPs from Robert Anton Wilson book Prometheus Rising.
see http://www.solharvest.com/cclosers/RAWi … etheus.pdf

   

Robert Anton Wilson wrote:

YOUR SOFTWARE IS NON-LOCAL:
    POINT-EVENTS EVERYWHERE, EVERYWHEN.
    Before the first imprint, the consciousness of the infant is
    "formless and void"–like the universe at the beginning of
    Genesis, or the descriptions of unconditioned ("enlightened" i.e.,
    exploded) consciousness in the mystic traditions. As soon as the
    first imprint is made, structure emerges out of the creative void.
    The growing mind, alas, becomes trapped within this structure. It
    identifies with the structure; in a sense, it becomes the structure.
    This entire process is analyzed in G. Spencer Brown's Laws
    of Form; and Brown was writing about the foundations of mathematics
    and logic. But every sensitive reader knows that Brown
    is also talking about a process we have all passed through in
    creating, out of an infinite ocean of signals, those particular
    constructs we call "myself and "my world." Not surprisingly,
    4O Prometheus Rising
    many acid-heads have said that Brown's math is the best description
    ever written of an LSD trip.
    Each successive imprint complicates the software which
    programs our experience and which we experience as "reality."
    Conditioning and learning build further networks onto this
    bedrock of imprinted software. The total structure of this braincircuitry
    makes up our map of the world. It is what our Thinker
    thinks, and our Prover mechanically fits all incoming signals to
    the limitations of this map.
    Following Dr. Timothy Leary (with a few modifications) we
    shall divide this brain hardware into eight circuits for convenience.
    ("For convenience" means that this is the best map I know
    at present. I assume it will be replaced by a better map within 10
    or 15 years; and in any case, the map is not the territory.)
    Four of the circuits are "antique" and conservative, they exist
    in everybody (except feral children).
    1. The Oral Bio-Survival Circuit. This is imprinted by the
    mother or the first mothering object and conditioned by
    subsequent nourishment or threat. It is primarily concerned with
    sucking, feeding, cuddling, and body security. It retreats
    mechanically from the noxious or predatory–or from anything
    associated (by imprinting or conditioning) with the noxious or
    predatory.
    2. The Anal Emotional-Territorial Circuit. This is imprinted
    in the "Toddling" stage when the infant rises up, walks about and
    begins to struggle for power within the family structure. This
    mostly mammalian circuit processes territorial rules, emotional
    games, or cons, pecking order and rituals of domination or
    submission.
    3. The Time-Binding Semantic Circuit. This is imprinted and
    conditioned by human artifacts and symbol systems. It "handles"
    and "packages" the environment, classifying everything according
    to the local reality tunnel. Invention, calculation, prediction
    and transmitting signals across generations are its functions.
    4. The "Moral" Socio-Sexual Circuit. This is imprinted by the
    first orgasm-mating experiences at puberty and is conditioned by
    tribal taboos. It processes sexual pleasure, local definitions of
    "right" and "wrong," reproduction, adult-parental personality
    (sex role) and nurture of the young.
    Prometheus Rising 41
    The development of these circuits as the brain evolved
    through evolution, and as each domesticated primate (human)
    brain recapitulates evolution in growing from infancy to adulthood,
    makes possible gene-pool survival, mammalian sociobiology
    (pecking order, or politics) and transmission of culture.
    The second group of four brain circuits is much newer, and
    each circuit exists at present only in minorities. Where the
    antique circuits recapitulate evolution-to-the-present, these futuristic
    circuits ^recapitulate our future evolution.
    5. The Holistic Neurosomatic Circuit. This is imprinted by
    ecstatic experience, via biological or chemical yogas. It processes
    neurosomatic ("mind-body") feedback loops, somatic-sensory
    bliss, feeling "high," "faith-healing," etc. Christian Science, NLP
    and holistic medicine consist of tricks or gimmicks to get this
    circuit into action at least temporarily; Tantra yoga is concerned
    with shifting consciousness entirely into this circuit.
    6. The Collective Neurogenetic Circuit. This is imprinted by
    advanced yogas (bio-chemical - electrical stresses). It processes
    DNA-RNA-brain feedback systems and is "collective" in that it
    contains and has access to the whole evolutionary "script," past
    and future. Experience of this circuit is numinous, "mystical,"
    mind-shattering; here dwell the archetypes of Jung's Collective
    Unconscious–Gods, Goddesses, Demons, Hairy Dwarfs and
    other personifications of the DNA programs (instincts) that
    govern us.
    7. The Meta-programming Circuit. This is imprinted by very
    advanced yogas. It consists, in modern terms, of cybernetic consciousness,
    reprogramming and reimprinting all other circuits,
    even reprogramming itself, making possible conscious choice
    between alternative universes or reality tunnels.
    8. The Non-Local Quantum Circuit. This is imprinted by
    Shock, by "near-death" or "clinical death" experience, by
    OOBEs (out-of-body-experiences), by trans-time perceptions
    ("precognition"), by trans-space visions (ESP), etc. It tunes the
    brain into the non-local quantum communication system suggested
    by physicists such as Bohm, Walker, Sarfatti, Bell, etc.
    These circuits will be explained in detail as we proceed.
    Approximately 50% of the human race has not evolved fully
    into the third circuit yet. That is, although they can exchange
    primitive signals and handle primitive artifacts, they are still
    mostly operating on the mammalian emotional circuit and the
    pre-mammalian bio-survival circuit.
    Newt Gingrich is their current leader in the United States.
    Third-circuit types cannot understand this and regard it as sinister,
    but it is simple mammalian herd-behavior. Gingrich is the
    typical primate leader; the noises he makes, which appear
    meaningless to the third circuit Rationalist, are urgently meaningful
    to the territorial-emotional-patriotic minds of the majority
    of primates.
    Another 20% are "responsible, intelligent adults" with fully
    developed third and fourth circuits. They spend most of their
    time worrying, because the predominantly primate parameters of
    human society seem absurd, immoral and increasingly dangerous
    to them.
    280 Prometheus Rising
    Another 20% are neurosomatic adepts. Fourth-circuit Moralists
    denounce them as "mystics," "space cases," "nuts," "the Me
    generation," "irresponsible hedonists," etc.
    Most of the fifth-circuit adepts (aquarian conspirators) have
    learned Joyce's arts of "silence, exile, cunning": they are invisible.
    Others have turned their talents to "faith-healing" or various
    occult gimmicks of that sort, and very carefully do not tell their
    clients that the local ideology, morality and reality-tunnel is what
    made them ill in the first place. They give "good energy" and
    sensibly avoid conflict with the moral ideological "authorities."
    Another 5% have neurogenetic consciousness, and function as
    Evolutionary Agents–servants of the Life Force, in Shaw's
    terminology. Their "God" is Pan (life), and their goal is immortality.
    Another 3% have mastered the meta-programming circuit and
    make up what Gurdjieff called "the Conscious Circle of humanity."
    They are Free Masons, in the original meaning of that
    debased term: co-creators of future realities.
    Only 2% are neuro-quantum adepts and beyond space-time
    categories entirely.
    All these estimates are approximations.

Its not like we are fractions of the whole but rather versions of the whole.

30 (edited by Marcus 2006-04-20 07:49:56)

Re: The theory of Organic Portals and David Icke

onionworld wrote:
whywhywhy wrote:
Lemniscate wrote:

That which offends you is that which you have imagined . . . whether you realize it consciously or not.

Exactly!  But it is hard to keep even keel.  I wish everybody will remember this statement before responding to a post which they deemed offensive or contrary to their "beliefs".  I have been guilty of it in the past and I am afraid I will transgress in the future but the number of times I do it are reducing and hopefully will continue to do so.

Regards,

Lee

I'm sorry but I think it's nonsense. So, if you see pictures of the torture going on in the mideast and it offends you, then it's no problem because you only imagined it. What garbage.

Maybe it is just a matter of different word usage.  "Offense" to me implies that something has to go against ideas that you hold as important, and that you take the contradiction of those ideas as a personal insult.

What image you describe may cause upset, hurt, anger etc.  But it needn't cause "offense".

But it depends on how the word offensive is being used.  I think you and Lee are using the word in different contexts to each other...