• From: LA
  • Registered: 2005-09-18

Topic: Oil Prices

First they told us oil prices were soaring because of the Gulf War.  When that did not work they told us it was the issue with Syria.  When that got old we were told the problem was Iraq.  Then they said it was supply and demand.  And now they are telling us that commodity speculators are driving the prices up because of the issues with Iran and countries such as Nigeria.  Yet, the oil supply/reserves in the OPEC cartel are at an all time high.  There is a problem here with the laws of supply and demand!

To make matters more exasperating, the ex-chairman of Exxon, Lee Raymond, just received a retirement package worth 400 Million dollars.  Does that make any effing sense?  Who pays for this jackass salary & bonuses?  Bottom line, we do, the poor people that pay for gas at the pump. 

Do you know that Brazil will complete their transition to ethanol sometime this year or early this year?  Do you know this transition started in the 70's?  How did the US miss that?  Ha! Big Oil Companies did not allow it to happen....PERIOD. 

When are we going to stick our hands out the window and yell "I am not going to take it anymore" (from the movie "Network").  Probably never!  Our children and young adults watch so much TV they are becoming zombies for the The Powers That Be...........They are slaves and don't even know it!

Here is an article on OPEC’s position on oil prices and supply:

http://www.mercopress.com/Detalle.asp?NUM=7696

Here is short article on oil prices and the ex-chairman of Exxon.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-bac … 5198/posts

  • From: The Singularity
  • Registered: 2005-09-23

Re: Oil Prices

Haha, the commodity traders.   Add that spin to the "signs of disinfo" list!

ALL natural resources are going up in value right now, and that's a positive thing because it represents a shift in collective values to things that are, well, inherently valuable. 

Oil prices, in particular, are going up because people have demonstrated that they will pay extortionary amounts of money for gasoline.  Especially Americans who would consider it a major blow to their ego to downsize their vehicle.  What would the neighbors think?!

One thing that we are not in danger of is an oil shortage.  There is no shortage of oil.  I repeat.  There is no shortage of oil. 

And even if there were, well there are several alternative forms of fuel to use.  And then there is that zero-point energy stuff, but that's just all a bunch of hokey pseudoscience. . .

It is not for us to understand love, but simply to make space for it.
  • Registered: 2006-01-13

Re: Oil Prices

We need to get our inventors going so that we can either come up with an alternative fuel or replace the automobile altogether. If I had the money, I would continue research in this field.

I believe that once somebody puts an invention on the internet, they won't be able to suppress it. It'll spread like wildfire, and the oil co's will be down for the count. We can't be concerned about who's going to get the money from the patent, because they watch the patent office and every time something promising comes up, it is considered "removed for reasons of 'national security'".

Magis Amica Veritas

I would rather control myself, than someone else.

en courage (heart)
in spire (spirit)
en thuse (theos)
  • From: LA
  • Registered: 2005-09-18

Re: Oil Prices

tenetnosce wrote:

Haha, the commodity traders.   Add that spin to the "signs of disinfo" list!

This is what the oil companies are saying, not me.  They change their reasoning to justify maintaining prices at an all time high.

tenetnosce wrote:

ALL natural resources are going up in value right now, and that's a positive thing because it represents a shift in collective values to things that are, well, inherently valuable.

Many of these resources are ores that need processing.  The processing requires gas/oil/electricity which in turn has gone up.  The domino effect.

tenetnosce wrote:

Oil prices, in particular, are going up because people have demonstrated that they will pay extortionary amounts of money for gasoline.  Especially Americans who would consider it a major blow to their ego to downsize their vehicle.  What would the neighbors think?!

Very true.  But one wrong does not justify the other (in a fair world that is).  We are beeing raped but we are guilty of extreme wasteful behaviour also. 

tenetnosce wrote:

One thing that we are not in danger of is an oil shortage.  There is no shortage of oil.  I repeat.  There is no shortage of oil.

I agree completely.  Check the OPEC statement on the initial post.

tenetnosce wrote:

And even if there were, well there are several alternative forms of fuel to use.  And then there is that zero-point energy stuff, but that's just all a bunch of hokey pseudoscience. . .

Yeap.  But it takes years to make the transition.  Unless the Government already does have a prototype and all they have to do is plug in the machine at the Utility company and bingo - They are in business again - (under a different name of course).  Ha, selling free energy for half the price of oil...........What a masterpiece, but it wouldn't surprise me!

Regards,

Lee

  • From: aworld w/out invisible borders
  • Registered: 2005-06-09

Re: Oil Prices

It's funny if you look at it really.  Yesterday I was walking around and noticed the gas prices up the street sitting at 111.9 after it was around the 90's for months (I live in Canada).  And then I looked straight across the street to see another gas station showing the same price.  And I just laughed.  Two gas stations on either sides, both different companies.  Then I came to realize that the same person most likely owns both of them. 

But what I really want to say is that if "whoever is in charge of gas prices" decided to jack them up to 2$, people would first get angry, then accept it as they cannot see a world without governement limitations, which have become our own personal limitations.

Thats why I ride my bike to work and school smile

"Beyond the stars a new world awaits me now" - Wintersun

Natural Mystic's Website

  • From: LA
  • Registered: 2005-09-18

Re: Oil Prices

Natural Mystic wrote:

It's funny if you look at it really.  Yesterday I was walking around and noticed the gas prices up the street sitting at 111.9 after it was around the 90's for months (I live in Canada).  And then I looked straight across the street to see another gas station showing the same price.  And I just laughed.  Two gas stations on either sides, both different companies.  Then I came to realize that the same person most likely owns both of them.

It goes further than that Natural Mystic.  I have been in the refining business for a long time.  There is a refinery in my hometown for which I have designed most of their controls systems.  So I know them rather well.  Interesting part is that at the truck rack (place where 18-wheelers come in and load gasoline to be taken to the individual gas stations) you'll see see BP, Chevron, Exxon and other independent groups loading the same gas (excluding the additives) and selling it as their own.

Natural Mystic wrote:

But what I really want to say is that if "whoever is in charge of gas prices" decided to jack them up to 2$, people would first get angry, then accept it as they cannot see a world without governement limitations, which have become our own personal limitations.

The problem is that the prices are not set by what we call "Free Market".  The prices are set by a few "fat cats" using disinformation and other schemes so they can add more millions to their coffers which by the way are bursting by now.  But Tenetnosce is right, if we are willing to be extorted and raped why stop? 

Regards,

Lee

7 Reply by tenetnosce (edited by tenetnosce 2006-04-19 14:08:49)

  • From: The Singularity
  • Registered: 2005-09-23

Re: Oil Prices

whywhywhy wrote:

This is what the oil companies are saying, not me.  They change their reasoning to justify maintaining prices at an all time high.

I didn't think those were your words, but thanks for clarifying!

whywhywhy wrote:
tenetnosce wrote:

Oil prices, in particular, are going up because people have demonstrated that they will pay extortionary amounts of money for gasoline.  Especially Americans who would consider it a major blow to their ego to downsize their vehicle.  What would the neighbors think?!

Very true.  But one wrong does not justify the other (in a fair world that is).  We are beeing raped but we are guilty of extreme wasteful behaviour also.

Nothing justifies rape, however playing victim will do nothing to resolve the trauma once perpetrated.

It's kind of like when somebody gets really sick because of a bacterial infection, and then modern medicine comes to the rescue with all sorts of chemical weapons to kill off the bacteria.  Necessary?  In extreme cases, yes.  Effective?  Sometimes.  But the real solution to the problem is to change the environmental conditions inside the body such that exposure to the infective agent does not result in disease.  Otherwise the same problem will keep manifesting over and over again in different forms.

Oil companies will charge as much as they can get.  That's their business.  It's our business to immunize ourselves as best as we can against price hijacking.

One solution is to drive more fuel efficient cars, obviously.  There are also things you can do to increase the fuel efficiency of your own car.  I understand that recent research conducted by the military concluded that they could add up to 15% water to a diesel-fuel tank with no loss of power or efficiency to their vehicles.

There are also other factors, too, like where you buy your gas.  Whether you go to Arco, or QT, or BP, for example.  Arco is always a few cents cheaper, but you are getting a lower grade gasoline that almost exclusively comes from Arab nations. 

The average American, however, would believe that simply buying the cheapest gasoline they can find is the smartest way to "stick it to 'em".  Yeah and shopping at Wal-Mart is a great way to support American jobs, too.  But I digress. . .

As you pointed out, the cost of fuel is figured into almost everything else you purchase.  Certainly if it requires transportation.  Shopping local is a great way to reduce the impact of rising fuel prices on your pocketbook. 

Then of course there are the many options for generating your own power.  More or less effective and cost-efficient depending on where you live.


whywhywhy wrote:

Unless the Government already does have a prototype and all they have to do is plug in the machine at the Utility company and bingo - They are in business again - (under a different name of course).  Ha, selling free energy for half the price of oil...........What a masterpiece, but it wouldn't surprise me!

Wouldn't surprise me either.

It is not for us to understand love, but simply to make space for it.

8 Reply by Pictus (edited by Pictus 2006-04-19 15:39:32)

  • From: Brazil
  • Registered: 2006-02-11

Re: Oil Prices

whywhywhy wrote:

Do you know that Brazil will complete their transition to ethanol sometime this year or early this year?  Do you know this transition started in the 70's?  How did the US miss that?  Ha! Big Oil Companies did not allow it to happen....PERIOD.

I am Brazilian and this is not the true.
All gasoline station here has gasoline and alcohol for fuel, but
the number of cars using alcohol is small, but for a few years back(+- 4 or 5 years)
the automobile industry started to produce flex fuel cars, they can
use any mix of alcohol and gasoline. Now the flex fuel cars are getting
momentum, but the most desirable fuel here is gas because is much cheaper
we use transformation kits to make the car able to also use gas, one flex fuel
car model from FIAT is flex fuel + gas, ehehhe neat do not need the kit…
I want one smile
The problem with the gas is that only a few gas station has gas and almost
only in the capital.
 
All gasoline here is mixed with 20% of alcohol, was 25%.
http://www.cetesb.sp.gov.br/noticentro/ … ali_ar.htm

We do not produce much alcohol to stop using gasoline and
Brazil is spading its petrol production and we will be producing
100% of our petrol needs this year, if not already done.
But we need more refineries to produce gasoline, in the next years
all will be set.
 
We also want to substitute or diminish diesel needs  for a natural source
like mamona oil
http://www.biodieselbr.com/
http://www.gvconsult.com.br/gvconsult/c … w/full/154

To translate
http://babelfish.altavista.com/translate.dyn

Bye, Pictus

--------------------
http://pictus.co.nr

Pictus's Website

9 Reply by Risen (edited by Risen 2006-04-19 19:45:46)

  • Risen
  • Risen
  • The Anti-Ism
  • Offline
  • Registered: 2005-09-30

Re: Oil Prices

Mmm, biodiesel.  Potentially scary stuff indeed.

On the one hand it sounds like it can solve a lot of problems -- but on the other hands, there is the likelyhood that big corporations will use it to take over even more.  It won't be enough that they own all the oil rigs and refineries.  With biodeisel they will likely want to own all the farmland too.

Something for the earthlings to keep in mind when reaching for solutions.  Watch your chess pieces.

This is no time for the righteous
Only the wicked survive
Bake up a batch of the Yellow Cake
Bake up a batch of the lies
- - - - -[ Yellow Cake - Ministry - Rio Grande Blood (2006)
  • From: Brazil
  • Registered: 2006-02-11

Re: Oil Prices

The farms maybe not, but the refinery process probably yes.
All petrol here in Brazil belongs to the govern, they started to give
some regions for exploration to the big cats a few years back.

Bye, Pictus

--------------------
http://pictus.co.nr

Pictus's Website

  • From: LA
  • Registered: 2005-09-18

Re: Oil Prices

Pictus wrote:
whywhywhy wrote:

Do you know that Brazil will complete their transition to ethanol sometime this year or early this year?  Do you know this transition started in the 70's?  How did the US miss that?  Ha! Big Oil Companies did not allow it to happen....PERIOD.

I am Brazilian and this is not the true.
All gasoline station here has gasoline and alcohol for fuel, but
the number of cars using alcohol is small, but for a few years back(+- 4 or 5 years)
the automobile industry started to produce flex fuel cars, they can
use any mix of alcohol and gasoline. Now the flex fuel cars are getting
momentum, but the most desirable fuel here is gas because is much cheaper
we use transformation kits to make the car able to also use gas, one flex fuel
car model from FIAT is flex fuel + gas, ehehhe neat do not need the kit…
I want one smile
The problem with the gas is that only a few gas station has gas and almost
only in the capital.
 
All gasoline here is mixed with 20% of alcohol, was 25%.
http://www.cetesb.sp.gov.br/noticentro/ … ali_ar.htm

Thanks for the correction pictus.  Now I am curious.  I'll have to check my source.

Regards,

Lee

  • From: the mine
  • Registered: 2005-11-15

Re: Oil Prices

Here is the bottom line folks-
we need to do away with the internal combustion engine.

It is a relic, literally.

....A few facts for you to chew on

The average efficiency (ability  to turn potential energy into work)  of an I.C.E. is 20%

TWENTY @#$%^ PERCENT!

Imagine you are an employer- would you tolerate an employee who shows up for work on Monday?

ONLY Monday?

Howbout a refrigerator that keeps your food cold 5 hours a day?

We are STILL in the industrial revolution here. The internal combustion engine is the DIRECT descendant of what?

The steam engine.

That's right, we're driving in the 21st century utilizing technology that was born in the 18th century.

No matter what you feed an I.C.E., practical efficiency will never exceed 50%.

Risen had an excellent point concerning moguls buying up farmland- I can absolutely see that scenario being played out.

Then we'll have the monsters at Monsanto and ADM fully in bed with the petro companies... go ahead and form your own conclusions.

Remember also that petro is used widely in pharma as well as plastics manufacturing- it's entirely possible that even without gas being a source of profit, they'd still be giants.

I'm in a bit of conflict here, I'll be the first one to tell you how much I love the sound of a Formula 1 engine turning at 20,000 rpm.

I'll also tell you how much I hate what the "technology" has done to our planet.

One nasty thing feeds another, and as far as the Industrial Revolution, we saw the advent of cheap steel grow as an industry right alongside the petroleum industry.

The two are inseparable in fact, and a handful of very familiar names got rich enough off the 2 that, well, you know.

Trying very hard lately to be optimistic about the situation.

In my opinion, the ONLY way, and I mean only way for us to remove ourselves from this web is for every car manufacturer to go outta business- SIMULTANEOUSLY.

Since that won't happen, the bigwigs are continually emboldened.

As in the case of Lee Raymond.
Just stick it right in our faces you son of a bitch!

$400 million

staggering

How much gas would that buy exactly?
 
Or, how much cheaper per gallon nationwide would that be?

AND NOW........

Fear.

Fear of a strike on Iran.

Is the latest game.

They now have the PERPETUAL reason for ever increasing prices.

INDEFINETELY!

(Reminds you a bit of the "war on terror" donnit?)

They have their blank check now.

Maybe we'll throw a warhead their way tomorrow.

Maybe in 2010.

donmatter....

Get ready to walk more.

For an excellent source on technology we SHOULD HAVE BEEN USING for the last century or so...... KeelyNet.com

                                                             J

"I hate dreaming. because when you want to sleep, you want to sleep. Dreaming is work. Next thing you know I have to build a go-kart with my ex landlord"
-The late Mitch Hedberg

13 Reply by lyra (edited by lyra 2006-04-24 13:28:08)

  • lyra
  • lyra
  • Naked Emperor Pointer Outer
  • Offline
  • From: my own private idaho
  • Registered: 2004-03-25

Re: Oil Prices

So in Virginia anyway we've finally topped $3 a gallon now.  The cheapest stuff anywhere to be found in town at the moment is $2.83, the most expensive is $3.08.  It now costs me $30 to fill up my '93 Mazda Protege.   In NYC and L.A. they're already at $3.39. http://www.newyorkgasprices.com/   http://www.losangelesgasprices.com/

The thing is, I can afford $30 a tank because I don't have kids, I'm not making car payments, I don't have credit card debt to pay off every month, I don't have cable bills and other useless monthly "luxuries", I don't smoke so I'm not wasting money on cigarettes, and my cost of living overhead is just very cheap overall compared to the amount of money I make.   But of course, not everybody can afford $3-4 a gallon.  Problems are going to start cropping up all over as a result of these prices, I'm sure.

I predict we'll hit $4 here by the end of the summer, easy.  If not here in Virginia, then in places like NYC and L.A. at least.  We're getting to where England was several years ago.

Glad I bought a nice brand new GT bike last year when they were still available, and on sale, $100 off, no less.

Could come in handy.  Soon.



PS Edit

Oh, and figures.   I started looking at all the major cities in the US to see who has the most expensive gas, and I had this brilliant idea to check Portland, Oregon.   Being that they're at the top of my very short list of conspiracy cities in this country, I guess it was no shocker to discover that they indeed, have the most expensive gas in the nation.  In southeast Portland, at Grand Avenue and Stark (I've been to that area many times while living there) they got everybody beat at $3.45.

http://www.portlandgasprices.com/

That tops anything that's going on in NY, LA, Miami, Chicago, Dallas, Boston, New Haven, Seattle, Denver, Washington, D.C., Phoenix, Atlanta, and so on.  (btw, the website I'm linking to for gas prices in each city, www_______gasprices.com is a good resource it seems;  for whatever city you enter, it shows you that city's highest and lowest charging service stations as of the last 72 hours.  So if you're interested in discovering who has the cheapest gas in your city, or, if you're just interested in watching gas price trends, this could be a good website for that.)

Good ol' Portland, Oregon though.  Gotta love how they work their ratios.   Highest unemployment rate in the nation, huge alcoholism and drug abuse epidemic, and the highest gas prices to boot.

"Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting "Holy shit ... what a ride!"  - Anonymous
-----
"I get by with a little help from my (higher density) friends."
-----

lyra's Website

14 Reply by Marcus (edited by Marcus 2006-04-24 13:57:46)

  • Registered: 2004-10-15

Re: Oil Prices

Slowly edging up then.  It cost you $30 per tank now - how much did it cost for a full tank say 8-10 years ago?

Prices over here are starting to rise again.  They got close to  £1 per litre around this time last year, and there was a fair bit of trouble.  So the prices went back down a little.  But now they have edged up to around 93p to 96p a litre again.  I wouldn't be surprised to see them at  £1 a litre by the end of the year.  Diesel is even more expensive, nearly topping  £1 already.  Interesting that diesel is primary used for trucks and thus transportation of goods – diesel always used to be the cheaper form of fuel…now it’s the most expensive.

Thing is...like you Lyra, the petrol price doesn't affect me in and off itself...I rarely have need to use the car now-a-days.  A full tank lasts me 2 to 3 weeks (at about  £32 per tank).  My living costs are fairly high though  £575 for rent per month, plus a few debts still remaining...but in all our living costs are faily low compaired to the "average" persons.

(On an unrelated note the cost of household fuel i.e. gas and electric has gone up by 25% for the next year…due to “shortages" .  However only the UK seems to be experiencing these shortages – nothing to do with the fact that both gas and electric is “imported"  from France, I am sure).

I wonder if it  the impact of oil prices will play out different in each country though?  I mean the public in different cultures US / UK / French etc. have different ways of dealing with these things.

Interesting observations about Portland...

Thought Manifestation

Marcus's Website

  • Registered: 2006-01-13

Re: Oil Prices

Marcus wrote:

Prices over here are starting to rise again.  They got close to  £1 per litre around this time last year, and there was a fair bit of trouble.  So the prices went back down a little.  But now they have edged up to around 93p to 96p a litre again.

For those Yanks on the forum (like me), the current US/UK exchange rate is $1:UK.56 (don't have a "British pound" symbol on my keyboard). And since 1.6 L = 1 quart, the equivalent would be:

UK1/liter =  $4.46/gallon

Magis Amica Veritas

I would rather control myself, than someone else.

en courage (heart)
in spire (spirit)
en thuse (theos)