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Noble Realms → Health → Pot Smoking and Other Spiritual Hazards
As much as i like Stuie Wild he is often not consistant (nothing wrong in that we all grow and change, i am often more wary of people who dont change and stick to the same dogma) but i think he likes to play the trickster on occasion and he has recomended shrooms and DMT in the past but has strong views about other ethnobotanicals.
hey man ...
i went back - and you're making good points - i assumed something about your position which wasn't true - i actually posted something about Stui and took it out 'cause i thought it didn't fit - and said my peace on the thing in another way - namely that i don't think any drug has any benefit for spritual purposes - regardless of what it may give at the time ...
the way you say smoking isn't good or bad - that certainly is one way of looking at it - i guess it depends on what the individual is after or how they view life - the whole thing, i mean ... for me - i guess i view the body as a vessel/my vehicle - that's why keeping it clean/running well is important - but that's just part of it ... (and of course sometimes people get stuck/obsessed on this - and go overboard) ... i guess the main reason i'm against drugs as a whole is that - well - it can affect your brain as it is, it can change the state that's there 'naturally' - and that change of state - well of course lots of things change our state of mind - but i don't know what it is - something about subjecting oneself to drugs willing seems off to me - just my position on this - and i was high when i decided i had to let it go for good - and it was all very clear at that moment ... for me it was for because the whole thing was all about craving all the time ... and it's so funny, 'cause although i got over that - i still have craving that pops up in different forms ... it's difficult to deal with ... *sigh*
Hey now. I'm not new to this forum, just to posting on it.
This is a topic dear to me because of my own interactions with Mary. I had smoked fairly regularly since I was 15 (now 22). The interesting thing is that all of my major spiritual development occured in that period of "time". When I had originally brought up the subject with my father during a long talk, he said that if anything he encouraged me to experiment with it. He knew my constitution and why I was smoking it, and this is from a very sensible and spiritual man.
I did a lot of research before and during my use, as I do with anything I choose to ingest for "mystical" purposes. What I had found is that I had very different reactions to it than most of the people around me that were also experimenting. My close friends, the more spiritually oriented ones had more similar reactions to me than others as well. It seemed that a lot of the what I now understand as "OP" types just got laughy and munchies and all the common effects that we learn about in school. I noticed that in me it tended to allow my mind to see things from different perspectives and seemed to improve my intuitive capabilities. Like I said, the majority of my major spiritual growth has occured while high. Although I suppose the intent behind the use will change the outcome and experiences.
A while back I had an interesting run in with a very Jesus-like character at a local dive. He related to me that drugs like MJ and mushrooms lie in the realm of the 6th chakra while say heroin and other "lower" drugs affect the lower chakras. So basically because they are at 6th, any one choosing to develop spiritually can rely on it as an ally, a la Don Juan and Carlos. I do believe that all things material exist for a reason and it may very well be that it is a helper plant, alike the phenomenon of people believing crystals can help facilitate our spiritual development.
It has positive and negative properties like anything else in the universe. While it tends to make me lethargic and paranoid, it also changes perceptual abilities and can help provide great insight. I think the paranoia factor is only a manifestation of it's ability to make one more self-conscious. It definately amplifies your senses, and what I've experienced is a greater ability to sense my energy body.
So in the end I view it as an ally. It's not pos or neg, it just "is" as some of you have pointed out.
Another thing is the misconception of it frying your brain. Based on my research, there are actually cannabinoid receptors. Our body naturally produces a substance chemically indentical to the cannabinoids in Mary. I believe it is called anandamide. My brother always held the notion(and still does, despite the evidence) that you get high because it's frying your brain cells. Given that we have natural receptor sites for THC to bind to, leads me to believe that it isn't the case.
At this point in my life I can see how it was negatively affecting me and that my awareness had grown to such a level that I didn't feel I needed it anymore. I still smoke occasionally but not multiple times a day as I was accustomed to for several years.
On a side note, I also know someone who is very intuitive and recieves a lot of information and thought projections from people around her constantly. She says that for her it tends to have the reverse effect in that it calms down the "noise" and allows her to seperate her thoughts from those of others.
I'm just wondering where all these spiritual authors get off saying that smoking pot interferes with spiritual growth. The trigger in this particular case is from Stuart Wilde's "The End Run"
...But he didn't say here that it "interferes with spiritual growth." He said it tears your etheric, poisons your brain, makes you paranoid, and docile.
Not to sound like I'm defending Stuart, it's just that I'm being my usual nitpicking self. 
Always noticing when people are misunderstanding or misquoting somebody or something.
(Originally I had a paragraph relaying my experiences with people that I've seen become docile, paranoid and goofy in the brain from too much pot smoking, but I'm deleting it so that there will be more focus on the other issues....)
Excuse me? It "makes me" what? It doesn't make me anything. I'm using it. It's not using me. IT'S A PLANT!
So you're basically saying it doesn't cause any symptoms then when you use it? None, at all? When a plant, food or anything causes any sort of reaction in your body, it is indeed "making you." Caffeine "makes me" have artificial energy and clarity of mind, to use one example. And pot "makes me" have some pretty crazy reactions, which is why I can't smoke it. !
It makes me paranoid? Sorry, bud, no paranoia here.
Maybe not you, but it does with others...
It makes me docile? Do I sound docile to you?
What about when you smoke it?
I'm not saying that I think it's beneficial to be a "pothead", or anything like that. I'm just saying that otherwise free spiritual thinkers all of a sudden get so smugly fundamentalistic when it comes to this kind of thing.
I don't think Stuart sounded smugly fundamentalistic in the above excerpt at all. But that's just me. It sounds more like you were just tired of always hearing negative stuff about pot, then you came across this blurb, and it was the straw that broke the camel's back for you, and now you're lashing out at Stuart for all the others that came before him. What he's saying here isn't that bad, or far out. He actually sounds, to me, the most low key, levelheaded and humble out of all the people out there who would tell us not to smoke pot. Again, he was just the straw that broke the back for you and now his quote is going to get the pent up emotional firestorm.
Same goes for meat eating, alcohol, tobacco, or any other "spiritual no-no".
All I can say here is, don't worry and who cares what people have to say about these things. Don't worry about it. If somebody wants to claim that smoking is a spiritual no-no......let 'em! f*ck 'em! Who cares. I eat meat. I drink. I've smoked my own roll-your-own cigarettes with the Native Spirit pouch tobacco and the cherry/raspberry rolling papers. (ummm! yum!) And trust me, "spiritual no-no" was the last thing on my mind. I don't give a crap what anybody else has to say about meat, alcohol and tobacco.
People get so hoity-toity about this kind of crap. I'm sorry. . but let's talk for a moment about what sitting in front of a computer monitor for hours at a time does to your etheric. Or how bout when drinking too much chamomile tea makes you overly-docile? Or how bout the amount of poisonous methane gas that everybody has to inhale when within a 10-foot radius of a staunch raw-foods eater?
Just because somebody doesn't mention chamomile tea, computers and raw food people's farts, doesn't mean they don't see a problem with them. That's actually a two-fold fallacy of logic - bringing up other topics, like "Well, what about THIS, and THIS and THIS..." when it doesn't have anything to do with the topic being debated, then making the assumption that because something WASN'T mentioned it therefore means the author/speaker in question DOESN'T have an issue with it. There's a lot of stuff that you, me, and others haven't brought up or talked about on this forum....doesn't mean we're not aware of it or don't have some sort of experience/opinion regarding it.
Um hello? Spirituality has to do with this thing called your "spirit". The body is secondary. Not even secondary, more like sixth or seventh down the line.
True in many ways, but there's no doubt that certain things can incapacitate the body/mind and thus allow for negs to get in and work through you.
"Hi! I'm here for the ascension party!"
"Oh yes. Good to see you. Your works are well admired all across the Universe. Come on. . wait a minute. . I see here you smoked a doobie back in '98. Sorry, bud you'll have to stay in 3D for another 75,000 years."
"But. . it was just a joint!"
"Hey man, I don't make the rules. Sorry you're going to have to leave now before you contaminate any of the other candidates."
That's funny because, you know, I thought I created my own reality. . .
Gimme a friggin break. . .
Stuart never said anything in the above excerpt, or in any of his other writings that I've seen so far about people not being "allowed" to "ascend" because they smoked pot. And I don't recall reading anybody else who made an outlandish claim like that either. But I could be wrong.
And maybe I'm going to get into trouble for posting this, because I'm being the logical nitpicker.......after all, I had this bizarre ear thing happening the second I hit "Reply" and began typing my first line. It was like a high pitched pressure in my right ear. Very bizarro. But oh well. (Clicking Submit!)
I think we should call pot "weed".
Well, if it makes tenetnosce feel any better, this song's for him:
http://www.savefile.com/files.php?fid=9416381
If that doesn't work, then try this:
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=C9UEM9AE
I hope it works! It's a funny song, and guaranteed to make you smile. 
(Edit....I just noticed that if you go to click on the song with the Mega Upload link, an ad pops up featuring um, scantily clad chicks. If you like that sort of thing, cool, if not, sorry, I didn't know it would do that! haha)
Lyra, stop being so logical!
Dag num it, if not pot then how am I supposed to be docile, paranoid and goofy? No one thinks about that.
Here's a song for ya'll.
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=ANMT6URF
And a little Afroman here...
I was going to ascend but then I got high.
Was going to get rid of all my sin but then I got high.
Ripped my etheric a new one and I know why.
Because I got high, because I got high, because I got high.
In case you don't know the beat to Afroman's song here's ya go...
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=R6U4MOTH
So you're basically saying it doesn't cause any symptoms then when you use it? None, at all? When a plant, food or anything causes any sort of reaction in your body, it is indeed "making you." Caffeine "makes me" have artificial energy and clarity of mind, to use one example. And pot "makes me" have some pretty crazy reactions, which is why I can't smoke it. !
Hmm, I don't want to argue here, but in your example I suggest the caffeine is just bringing those qualities out of you. Like I said before they are always present, and a substance rather just amplifies certain ones. infact each time you take a substance it doesn't always bring out the same one.
I don't agree with the "makes you" concept. If I smoke weed and get creative, it didn't make me creative. It just tuned me into a particular creative thread that was already part of me. If it makes me agitated, same thing.
..back to our regularly scheduled programming..
And a little Afroman here...
I was going to ascend but then I got high.
Was going to get rid of all my sin but then I got high.
Ripped my etheric a new one and I know why.
Because I got high, because I got high, because I got high.
That's awesome, I love it. 
Too funny. I was thinking of the Afroman song earlier after I uploaded "Let's Go Smoke Some Pot", but your lyrics are better!
Ah well, I'll actually provide some substance (no pun intended) from my own experience.
I've smoked tha ganja for about 14 years. At present what I find is, with my current mental focus, that it helps numb the physical sensations and allows me to better feel the etheric. That's an indirect effect. Due to my mental focus on ascending it helps focus that to better feel from the etheric.
The direct effect, that I can surmise, is that it focuses thought and expands that focused thought. The expanded thought can then find new routes through the brain which is in effect, creativity.
So if you focus on being paranoid then it enhances that focus and expands it. If you focus on transending the physical then it enhances that focus and expands it. If you focus on creating art then it enhances that focus and expands it.
It helps the chemical ridden food taste better. It lowers the humor threshold so you can laugh at pretty much anything. It cures boredom by focus and expansion of any activity you decide upon.
Basically, focus and expansion of that focus. All other things are indirect effects of that whether they be negative or positive.
Just for fun since I started doing it for other topics...
¤ ¤ ¤ ¤ ¤ ¤ ¤ ¤ ¤ ¤ ¤ ¤ ¤ ¤ ¤ ¤ ¤ ¤ ¤ ¤ ¤ ¤ ¤ ¤ ¤
Cs session: October 28, 1994
Q: (L) Is there ever a case when ingestion of pot or alcohol are beneficial in a spiritual way?
A: Yes.
¤ ¤ ¤ ¤ ¤ ¤ ¤ ¤ ¤ ¤ ¤ ¤ ¤ ¤ ¤ ¤ ¤ ¤ ¤ ¤ ¤ ¤ ¤ ¤ ¤
I suppose I should connect the above philosophicalness to the physical reality so no one gets the wrong idea. Weed fills the brain with smoke. Long term usage will resinate brain cells. This smoke causes the cloudy headedness. The goofitability, etc. If someone just wants to be a cloudhead then they can easily do so with weed. Or they can use the effects to their benefit. The cloudyness dampens the otherwise lame thoughts like bills and other slavery induced responsibilities. The individual can then concentrate on one thing without distraction. That one thing can be expanded because it's not fighting for mental space.
And thusly we connect the philosophicality with the physicality.
(smoke means the blood filled with thc - sorry i'm far from a biologist)
I think we should call pot "weed".
LMAO!
Not all weed is the same. There's a lot of variety in the 'highs'. Some weed can help you focus while others just makes your head swim...i think all those different varieties have different 'spirits'...
I've smoked a lot, and it doesn't just intensify your feeling or your 'being' at the moment, some ganja is truely inspiritional... but for me most of it nowadays is just too damned spacey!
The best i can remember smoking was african (found it once) and jamaican. And then there was this stuff a friend gave me, he smiled somewhat mysteriously and said :"try this". we never knew what it was, but it was without doubt the best weed we've ever tasted. Highly inspiritional and motivating, yet focused and still relaxed, feeling high, but earthy... blabla....
If i would ever knew which strain this was, i would cultivate it and start smoking again !
Btw, the stepping stone theory is true: I started with drugs by smoking Lipton tea, different flavours. 
I don't think Stuart sounded smugly fundamentalistic in the above excerpt at all. But that's just me.
tenetnosce wrote:"Hi! I'm here for the ascension party!"
"Oh yes. Good to see you. Your works are well admired all across the Universe. Come on. . wait a minute. . I see here you smoked a doobie back in '98. Sorry, bud you'll have to stay in 3D for another 75,000 years."
"But. . it was just a joint!"
"Hey man, I don't make the rules. Sorry you're going to have to leave now before you contaminate any of the other candidates."
That's funny because, you know, I thought I created my own reality. . .
Gimme a friggin break. . .
Stuart never said anything in the above excerpt, or in any of his other writings that I've seen so far about people not being "allowed" to "ascend" because they smoked pot. And I don't recall reading anybody else who made an outlandish claim like that either. But I could be wrong.
I have to agree with most of what Lyra said in her post, I think Stuart is the wrong person to pick on in this instance and you seem to be twisting what he's saying into something else entirely.
Stuart definitely isn't against all types of drugs but he definitely thinks pot is bad for you, or at least for most people. Perhaps having a lot of awareness negates any of the negative aspects of it.
I have to say that from my own personal point of view, I've never really enjoyed pot. Many of my closest friends over the last 10 years have been quite heavy pot smokers, and I'll although I'll occassionally share a joint with them, I rarely if ever enjoy it. I'm 30 years old and I still don't even know how to roll my own joint such is my ambivalence towards it!
What I find interesting is that tobacco is one of the most sacred plants in the world to many shamans. Many of the ayahuasqueros revere the tobacco plant/spirit just as much as they do the ayahausca plants/spirits.
However I've never heard of any shamans that use cannabis. I'm sure there must be some that do, but I think it's very rare and I've certainly never read about it, whereas they pretty much all use tobacco in their rituals. That does make me wonder why.
Its no big secret and it has been known to those with clairvoyant vision for ages that power substances alter the subtle bodies, sometimes in damaging ways. I know a great deal about power plants from personal experience, and I also know exactly what it means to have dependencies and seek to defend them in myriad of ways. This is how the ego works against us when we are dealing with physical plane laws rather than belief systems and flights of utter fancy.
Without any foreknowedge of such a thing, a seer told me when I was in my late 20s that she saw a hole or tear in my etheric body and it was from there determined that what brought it about was LSD use. Physical plane substances affect the subtle bodies. The foods we eat, the thoughts we embrace....everything is connected. There is always consensus among people with that kind of sight. They all see the same things and as thus they are objective signs of something that is happening. Stuart has issues with the Ganja plant which are understandable, and I have witnessed what I would call the infleuence of the shadow side of the plant and how it effects people that use it over extended periods of time until it becomes incorporated into their being.
I don't think he has the right or the wisdom to condemn anyone for this choice however.
I see that as a blind spot with him but I understand why he would not consider living the ganja lifestyle as part of the warriors path, nor would any other Toltec sage.
It is my feeling the power plants have valid and also medicinal uses but only on rare occaisons.
And just like tobacco, they were never meant to be used by habit.
Think in terms of what might be binding or heavy and you'll understand where I'm coming from.
Noble Realms → Health → Pot Smoking and Other Spiritual Hazards
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