31

Re: More on the Subject of "Truth"

thook wrote:
pokerboy101381 wrote:

Those also could be plastic or wax fruit.

I feel manipulated!  ::sly grin::

Prove to me those aren't pictures of plastic fruit, mister!

Hmmm....let's see....how could this be proved? <<<CHOMP!>>>>
Well.....tasting kinda digital at this point! Haha!

*shrugs*

You say 0, I say 1.   

rawr!!!!

32 (edited by whywhywhy 2006-04-10 09:56:00)

Re: More on the Subject of "Truth"

Risen wrote:

Its going to seem like I'm the one beating a dead horse here, and I'm going pretty far out on a limb to try to get the point across . .. and I'm also not sure I can relay it effectively, but I'll try:

Those pictures above of apples and oranges.  You tell that to some bush guy (no, not George)  who never spoke a lick of english, point to it and say "orange".  He'll shake his head "no" and tell you its a ______ (his native tongue).  And you guys could fight to the death about it if you wanted.

Its an orange to you because all your life you've experienced it as such.  It also might taste good to you and horrible to the bush guy, simply because of differences in your prior conditioning and timelines (!) and thus experiences.

I know it seems like I'm just dragging it out of proportion but really.  Absolute truth = the orange is sweet?  To you, yes perhaps.  But what about a person born without sweet taste buds?  What about another animal, creature, or being?  Who can say if its the absolute truth for him, except for him?

But tenet, I get your point now.  But it still just doesn't completely "jive" with me.  If I believed until I'm blue in the face that Aliens don't exist, they probably wont -- at least for me.  So it could be an absolute truth for me but absolute BS to you -- simply because the strength of my belief and the strength of yours.

Ok I'm not trying to bicker, just want to make sure we don't establish as 100% universally accepted fact that there is a such thing as absolute.  Because other than light, I'm not sure anything is.

Or rephrased, "other than the absolute, I think nothing is absolute!"  HAH...

PS:
Poker: uptight?  who's uptight? :-)

Risen,

I believe you misundestood my post.  My post was divided in three sections to make my point.  The first section discusses the absolute Truth.  The 2nd discusses physical items we all know.  Yes, the bush man may not know an orange by the orange name but he recognizes it as a product of a tree that he may or may not eat.  It is still an orange anyway (or whatever he calls it).  The Earth Truths are those physical things that we all recognize and are undeniable.  The 3rd item is My Truth.  The orange is sweet to me but maybe not to you.  Heck as far as I am concerned you may think an orange is deadly.  So My Truth relies mainly on my senses (including ESP) and how I interpret them.   That is all I was saying.  Ther are many "truths" out there including The Truth.

Regards,

Lee

33 (edited by pokerboy101381 2006-04-10 10:07:42)

Re: More on the Subject of "Truth"

whywhywhy wrote:

D. This is how babies are born.

http://img58.imageshack.us/img58/6550/stork12qg.th.jpg

HA!  I thought that was how it really worked until I was about 7.....lol!

Re: More on the Subject of "Truth"

thook wrote:
Natural Mystic wrote:

Ahh, yes! So, its either we have "programs" or "beliefs" that are based on truth, or non-truths.  No grey areas? 

Then I would ask how do I know whats good or bad?

And I think what is said below would answer that...

How do we know what's good or bad? First stop judging.

Oh, I was speaking about the choices we make and if they are relatively good or relatively bad, and was alluding the quote in Star Wars - the one I use as a signature.

Star Wars wrote:

Yoda: Yes, a Jedi's strength flows from the Force. But beware of the dark side. Anger, fear, aggression; the dark side of the Force are they. Easily they flow, quick to join you in a fight. If once you start down the dark path, forever will it dominate your destiny, consume you it will, as it did Obi-Wan's apprentice.

Luke: Vader... Is the dark side stronger?

Yoda: No, no, no. Quicker, easier, more seductive.

Luke: But how am I to know the good side from the bad?

Yoda: You will know... when you are calm, at peace, passive. A Jedi uses the Force for knowledge and defense, never for attack.

So I was saying that we may know "good from bad", or "truth from lie" when we ourselves are calm, clear minded and/or open minded.  Eckhart Tolle calls this state "No-Mind" and thus we can feel/intuit what is truthful, or non truthful. And yea, there must always be gray spots in between each pole of duality. That would be my answer for "No grey areas?".

"Beyond the stars a new world awaits me now" - Wintersun

35 (edited by manyeagles 2006-04-11 04:33:47)

Re: More on the Subject of "Truth"

Tenetnosce,

Great thread, and pretty savy how you did it IMHO  wink

Pokerboy stated on another thread, "Real truth would have absolutely nothing to say to anyone or anything.  It would just sit there...smiling...beaming energy" cool   This simple insight is more profound than words can convey.  A gentle reminder to heed our hearts, yeah???

Thook posted some great pic's awhile back, http://photobucket.com/albums/d142/thoo...interval=3
The one with Thook holding the turtle by the lake in particular.  Dunno about anyone else, but my HEART immediately acknowledged what IS.  The beaming LOVE energy literally blasted through the walls, continued on to the next door neighbor's backyard; whereby the 2 dogs in the backyard sang in harmony-tails wagging in a pattern of the alpha and omega symbol   yikes

All kidding aside, perhaps some heart chakras require more chocolate than others, in other words-heart feels/knows truths.  Yes, I too feel that everything is connected.

If there is no time
      Then you have time for everything.
   You're never in a hurry.
That's true freedom.

Re: More on the Subject of "Truth"

Natural Mystic wrote:

Oh, I was speaking about the choices we make and if they are relatively good or relatively bad, and was alluding the quote in Star Wars - the one I use as a signature.

Star Wars wrote:

Yoda: Yes, a Jedi's strength flows from the Force. But beware of the dark side. Anger, fear, aggression; the dark side of the Force are they. Easily they flow, quick to join you in a fight. If once you start down the dark path, forever will it dominate your destiny, consume you it will, as it did Obi-Wan's apprentice.

Luke: Vader... Is the dark side stronger?

Yoda: No, no, no. Quicker, easier, more seductive.

Luke: But how am I to know the good side from the bad?

Yoda: You will know... when you are calm, at peace, passive. A Jedi uses the Force for knowledge and defense, never for attack.

So I was saying that we may know "good from bad", or "truth from lie" when we ourselves are calm, clear minded and/or open minded.  Eckhart Tolle calls this state "No-Mind" and thus we can feel/intuit what is truthful, or non truthful. And yea, there must always be gray spots in between each pole of duality. That would be my answer for "No grey areas?".

Oh! I gotcha on the first part. The second...well, that's a very good point. I know what you're talking about.
Manyeagles: Poker did pretty much say it all! Yo Tony! (High five!)
And about the turtle pics, your heart, and the neighbor's dogs; That is the power of LOVE, which is who and what we are. Like a thread Ayuhuasca started on an excerpt from "Conversations With God", we don't always act like it. But, I posted those pics because in that moment there was a profound exchange occuring between the three of us: the turtle, myself, and my wife who was taking the pictures. Little did I know a picture would have "that" kind of effect. Love transcends all, do it not? And the dog's tails....wow, cool! Glad everyone could enjoy the pics.
I think I'm gonna go get some chocolate now!

" Then it was, then again it will be. And though the course may change sometimes rivers always reach the sea." Robert Plant

Re: More on the Subject of "Truth"

This thread as a whole reminds of the William Blake quote:

"If the doors of perception were cleansed, every thing would appear to man as it is, infinite. For man has closed himself up, till he sees all things thru narrow chinks of his cavern."

The doors of perception, or windows if you will--the ones that need a good scrubbing--represent beliefs to me.

I think beliefs can be transparent or opaque.

Imagine standing in the middle of small glass dome with an infinitely deep brilliant starfield beyond it.  But the glass dome has little paintings here and there on the inside of the glass.  Some of the paintings were made with thick, heavy brushstrokes and obscure the view of the beyond.  Or they color the view of the beyond: make it rosier or more freakish than it really is.  Then there are works of art done with light touches that let you see into the starfield and maybe even serve as pretty reminders of your favorite features of the starfield, telling you: remember this.

Some people cannot see the starfield anymore.  They look at their personal creations and take it for creation. 

Extending the metaphor, there's also the matter of having the outside of your glass dome graffitied.   

Maybe a person who is at-One is a person who scrubs their dome free of paint and is without beliefs.

Or maybe that's just one approach to at-one-ment.

Maybe it's also attainable by "creating paintings"--personal to you--that allow you to plumb all the mysteries of the starfield, knowing your paintings for paintings, until through worshipful similitude your transparent artwork comes alive and becomes (you become) a new pattern in the starfield.

You can't change a tiger's stripes,
but you can avoid its teeth.

Re: More on the Subject of "Truth"

Beautifully put, dreamosis. Truly! Opens a few doorways.
Maybe the only problem we really run into is mistaking our "belief paintings" for reality, like you say, not realizing or attentive enough to realize when a painting is no longer in harmony with reality. I have a book called "Love Without End" by Glenda Green that I like to thumb through when asking the universe for some "koan" for the day. It's a meditation exercise.;) In the book she discusses reality using her painting as illustration to make her points. This is one topic she goes over; the creation of our existence within reality. One point she makes is there nothing wrong with shaping reality to suit our needs, a framework in which to live and create our physical existence. Our problem is placing our faith in that framework forgetting that it is only a temporary structure and not exempt from sometimes necessary adjustment to flow with reality. We become slaves to our own created structures forgetting that we in fact created it as nothing more than a playground where the sand could be washed away by the next heavy rainfall. She adds also that it is our gift and are encouraged to explore our creative abilities, but suffer in our attachments to our creations when our creations attempt to divide the one spirit and unity in everything. Like with every artist, don't let that extremely gifted talent go to your head blowing things out of proportion. And don't forget where that talent comes from. Remember gratitude.
To add, regarding beliefs specifically: She says that there are different types of belief. One is the beliefs that are indoctrinated in to you. Two is the beliefs you form to fit in or adapt to your enviroment. Three are the beliefs you are born with that stem from your covenant with the creator. The ones we seem to innately believe above and beyond what anyone can tell us. That being said, the third type is probably the ones we need to discover and pay more close attention to. The imprint of those beliefs is within our hearts, the center of our being.

" Then it was, then again it will be. And though the course may change sometimes rivers always reach the sea." Robert Plant

Re: More on the Subject of "Truth"

What is the sound of one digital orange being sqeezed?

40 (edited by thook 2006-04-10 20:25:40)

Re: More on the Subject of "Truth"

SednaSphere wrote:

What is the sound of one digital orange being sqeezed?

Don't know, but I can tell you how it tastes! <<CHOMP!!!>> LOL!

Oh! And pokerboy..... what is 0+1?

" Then it was, then again it will be. And though the course may change sometimes rivers always reach the sea." Robert Plant

Re: More on the Subject of "Truth"

pokerboy101381 wrote:

My name is Pot. wink

Uh..Tony! Ever been to Idaho?

Road trip!

Got map?

" Then it was, then again it will be. And though the course may change sometimes rivers always reach the sea." Robert Plant

Re: More on the Subject of "Truth"

Delizioso? Er....brrrp. Thump. Whooop whoooop whoooop thrrrrrruummmm! Pow, crash, sizzle, fmlllpppptttt, no!....no!.....no!....( sounds of massive exposion and screams in the backround.)

But the cat came back, the very next day.

Re: More on the Subject of "Truth"

SednaSphere wrote:

Delizioso? Er....brrrp. Thump. Whooop whoooop whoooop thrrrrrruummmm! Pow, crash, sizzle, fmlllpppptttt, no!....no!.....no!....( sounds of massive exposion and screams in the backround.)

But the cat came back, the very next day.

LOL! Orange juice 'bout killed the cat?

" Then it was, then again it will be. And though the course may change sometimes rivers always reach the sea." Robert Plant

Re: More on the Subject of "Truth"

Or anything else that dared bite into it. It was digital, you see. Electronic.

45

Re: More on the Subject of "Truth"

thook wrote:

Oh! And pokerboy..... what is 0+1?

42?