Re: V for Vendetta is out

Maybe it's because your post seemed to so heavily focus on the mind control theme.  But if there was misunderstanding it would be down to me assuming what you were seeing rather than hearing it from you. smile

But yes the movie is multi-layered.  You and I have spoken before about some of those themes in movies - and usually they are pretty subtle (though not all that subtle when you know what you are looking for.  Ever seen "The Machinist"?).  What would be neat is if it was possible to watch a movie like this - pick out all the mind control references, and then piece them all together to see if it amounts to anything.  What I am saying is; are each separate occasion / theme (mirrors, roses, masks) each separate triggers, or do they only amount to something when combined and viewed in a certain order / manner?

Re: V for Vendetta is out

Marcus wrote:

Maybe it's because your post seemed to so heavily focus on the mind control theme.

How about, it ONLY focused on that....haha.....because I figured the other overt themes were obvious, and there wasn't a need to 'explain' the movie to people or anything, or try to dissect it.  NR'ers would get it.  Again, I only focused on the symbolisms because I figured that wouldn't be mentioned.  Figured that would something original to add to the pile.   smile  "Hey!!  He threw his mask at the mirror!!  It's sorta like 'Labyrinth' !  Hey!   Dominos!  Wow!!"  tongue



Marcus wrote:

What I am saying is; are each separate occasion / theme (mirrors, roses, masks) each separate triggers, or do they only amount to something when combined and viewed in a certain order / manner?

I don't know......unless one of the goals was to act as a trigger for people who may already have programming instilled within them...?    Again, doesn't mean there weren't other layers, meanings, or purposes behind it.  But acting as a trigger could certainly be one thing that was "slipped in."  The major themes you mentioned were front and center....while the trigger symbolisms fill in the cracks, in "the background" you could say.  Same with the Matrix movies.  Lots of overt, meaningful themes and layers, tons of symbolisms filling in the cracks.

"Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting "Holy shit ... what a ride!"  - Anonymous
-----
"I get by with a little help from my (higher density) friends."
-----

18 (edited by Marcus 2006-03-20 10:24:01)

Re: V for Vendetta is out

lyra wrote:

How about, it ONLY focused on that....haha.....because I figured the other overt themes were obvious, and there wasn't a need to 'explain' the movie to people or anything, or try to dissect it.  NR'ers would get it.

The second post in this thread is a quote from Stuart Wilde about V, he doesn't even talk about the film.  That's pretty neat I think.

lyra wrote:

Again, I only focused on the symbolisms because I figured that wouldn't be mentioned.  Figured that would something original to add to the pile.   smile  "Hey!!  He threw his mask at the mirror!!  It's sorta like 'Labyrinth' !  Hey!   Dominos!  Wow!!"  tongue

Yeah I know.  I got that already... big_smile smile

lyra wrote:

I don't know......unless one of the goals was to act as a trigger for people who may already have programming instilled within them...?    Again, doesn't mean there weren't other layers, meanings, or purposes behind it.  But acting as a trigger could certainly be one thing that was "slipped in."  The major themes you mentioned were front and center....while the trigger symbolisms fill in the cracks, in "the background" you could say.  Same with the Matrix movies.  Lots of overt, meaningful themes and layers, tons of symbolisms filling in the cracks.

That's what really interests me - the "why" of it... smile .  'Cuz those symbolisms certainly are in there...

19 (edited by lyra 2006-03-20 10:40:04)

Re: V for Vendetta is out

Marcus wrote:

The second post in this thread is a quote from Stuart Wilde about V, he doesn't even talk about the film.  That's pretty neat I think.

Yeah...what's THAT all about??  I did the same thing afterwards.  Total silence for a very long stretch!  I just sat there when it was over, then we left, and drove home, and I still didn't want to talk about it.  Not until we got all the way home did I feel I could even talk about it.  !   Neat...but weird! 

Well, I ordered the graphic novel from online, so, that should be arriving before the end of the week.  Yay!  Can't wait!  smile


ps edit.......forgot....you mentioned The Machinist....yeah, I did finally see that one.  ugh.  NASTY.   Hard movie to sit through, I couldn't do it in one sitting.  Kept stopping it to just, go off and do other things.  "Okay, um, guess I'll stop it here and um, go check my email or something...um..."  "Uh, I think I'll stop here for now and go do...something other than this movie...."  big_smile  And I never do that!  I always watch movies straight through.  It was just too nasty looking at how Christian Bale looked in that movie.  Just couldn't watch it straight through.

"Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting "Holy shit ... what a ride!"  - Anonymous
-----
"I get by with a little help from my (higher density) friends."
-----

20 (edited by Marcus 2006-03-20 10:56:12)

Re: V for Vendetta is out

lyra wrote:

Yeah...what's THAT all about??  I did the same thing afterwards.  Total silence for a very long stretch!  I just sat there when it was over, then we left, and drove home, and I still didn't want to talk about it.  Not until we got all the way home did I feel I could even talk about it.  !   Neat...but weird!

Two fold perhaps.  The movie certainly seems to put one into silence, I felt similar after the movie.  Though I also think Stuart didn't talk about the movie - because he is humble and lets people figure things out for themselves.  That's the impression I got from his message anyway.

lyra wrote:

Well, I ordered the graphic novel from online, so, that should be arriving before the end of the week.  Yay!  Can't wait!  smile

Nice.  I believe the graphic story is very different from the movie...though the theme is similar.  Would be great to know what sort of symbolisms you find in there!



EDIT:  Heh yeah - and The Machinist left me feeling quite yucky afterwards too.  Quite some blatant stuff in the middle of the movie too (the fairground).

Re: V for Vendetta is out

Bravo people, way to go... that's how you get sucked into supporting the dark side!  Pay to watch a piece of occultic trash.  Hmmm doesn't sound too positive to me!

"None is so blind as he who will not see, and none is so deaf as he who will not listen."

Re: V for Vendetta is out

thoughtcrime wrote:

Fair enough, I'm predisposed to having a problem, like I said, with the movie condoning violence since I'm a pacifist.  I believe all situations have a nonviolent solution.  Do I have evidence for this, or do I just *want* to believe that's true because violence scares me?  I dunno.

Well yeah, I mean don't get me wrong - I'm not bashing you for it.  The funny thing is, this is just proof that none of us belong to any category really.  To the warmongers I'm a pussy and to pacifists I'm quite hostile.  I guess DavidIcke nailed that one, its just a matter of how far down the stream you are...

This is no time for the righteous
Only the wicked survive
Bake up a batch of the Yellow Cake
Bake up a batch of the lies
- - - - -[ Yellow Cake - Ministry - Rio Grande Blood (2006)

Re: V for Vendetta is out

Though violence is not lawful, when it is offered in self-defence or for the defence of the defenceless, it is an act of bravery far better than cowardly submission. The latter befits neither man nor woman. Under violence, there are many stages and varieties of bravery. Every man must judge this for himself. No other person can or has the right.

- Mahatma Gandhi

Acquiring fringe knowledge is like digging for diamonds in a mine field.

Re: V for Vendetta is out

I saw V for Vendatta, and I was impressed.  I think that the film acted to reveal the idea of manipulation - manipulation of the public in order to satisfy the drive for power by people who seek to rule.

Well crafted, moving at parts.  Much more a drama with meaning than an "superhero with fast reflexes" action flick with gratuitous violence that I half expected.

25 (edited by visavis 2006-03-23 01:05:37)

Re: V for Vendetta is out

- Seconds after the credits begin rolling, there is an red-on-black image of the side of a man’s face, with what distinctly appears like vertical slits or pupils in the eye.  Look closely the next time you watch it.  It is in the “right half of the V" , so when the V is just a /.  Seconds later, on the counterpart left half of the “V"   (or \ ), there appears a woman/Evey figure’s half-face.

- Masonic colours if you will are red, blue and white.  I do not know the exactly the significance of all the black and red, but perhaps a more studied person can enlighten.  I do know that these colors are for whatever reason important to illuminati / secret societies, and these colors were also important to the Gnostics.  What is important to note, is that not one person or faction in the movie is associated with these colors… it runs throughout.  Of course the ‘big brother’ symbols, AND V himself (& his work), but also the inspector…. Look closely at the background in his office as he begins to “enlighten"  to the situation.

- There is definitely a significance of the rose(s), probably relating to the rosicrucians.  I cannot help but see clearly that the roses are tied to both death, and life.  The actress said “at least I had 3 years of roses" , remember.  And 3=completion.

- Perhaps a key (blatant?) clue in the philosophies being extolled is the last line in the Count of Monte Cristo, showed twice:  “Can we come up?"   “No, find your own tree." …. ponder this.  Kid: “Neo, you saved me!"   Neo: “You saved yourself."   ……… Insider: “There will be a time when everyone will be released but that is not a mass event, but rather 1 by 1....work on yourself."

There is so much going on here.  Maybe someday it will be clear.  Maybe we all will follow the footsteps of the inspector, return to the scene of the crime, and have an epiphany.  Maybe ours won’t be so fleeting.

"The unknown does not incite fear, but dependence on the known does." - J. Krishnamurti

Re: V for Vendetta is out

Risen wrote:

To the warmongers I'm a pussy and to pacifists I'm quite hostile.  I guess DavidIcke nailed that one, its just a matter of how far down the stream you are...

LOL this was funny.

Thank you Montalk for that great quote.  Time for reflection again.

As for black and red, I always thought that the two colors together meant union between anarchists and communists, which I've checked this on the "anarchist symbolism" article of wikipedia, and it reminded me that the two colors together represent anarcho-syndicalism, which is a very socialist sort of anarchism.  The usual symbol for anarchy is a red A in circle on a black background, much like V's symbol.

"Isolation, mis-education, and for the very clever there is looming liquidation."  -Catch Twenty-Two "Bad Party"

27 (edited by morningsun76 2006-04-04 17:40:15)

Re: V for Vendetta is out

A few observations regarding the symbolism in the movie:

1

http://www.polachek.net/jeff/images/nr/vendetta_chancellor.jpg

The symbol of the British Totalitarian Government is the Cross of Lorraine.  Notice that the color red is predominant. 

http://z.about.com/d/altreligion/1/0/i/4/3/glossarylorraine2.jpg

http://www.polachek.net/jeff/images/nr/exxon.jpg

2

"It's time for us to show the Colonies what we really think of them.  It's time to pay them back for a little Tea Party they threw for us a few hundred years ago."

      - TV announcer, at the very beginning of the movie.

See this newspaper clipping from 1787, and listen to the first radio clip here.  Notice that in the clipping, Britain is depicted as being "attended by an evil genius" who is holding a book, which represents the covert banking and legal methods used by the Crown to win back control of America.   In other words, even at the time of the founding of this country, it was known how Britain would attempt its revenge. 

3

V carves the letter V, within a circle, into the government propaganda posters on the street -- just as was done by the human resistance in V: The Original Miniseries.

http://www.polachek.net/jeff/images/nr/vendetta_poster.jpg

http://www.polachek.net/jeff/images/nr/v_posters.jpg

In the one movie, V is fighting the totalitarian British Empire, and in the other, the humans are fighting the reptilian alien stormtroopers who have taken over the Earth.    The point here is that both are metaphors for the SAME THING:  in reality, ALL freedom-loving people are being slowly but surely subjugated by this New World Order dictatorship.  It hides behind many names, and many ostensibly unrelated organizations, but it's all the same thing.  Next:

4

Evie: "Is everything a joke to you, Gordon?"

Gordon: "Only the things that matter."

If only more people understood this ... sigh.   Even in the darkest of times, we must maintain our senses of humor.    It is the one thing that most truly defines what is good and postive in humans.  If you don't have a sense of humor, you don't have anything.

5

When Evie goes to stay at Gordon's house, the first morning that she wakes up there Gordon fixes for her the same kind of eggs that V fixed for her on her first night at his place.  Why?

Because as Gordon says, he  IS V:  for V is an idea, not a person -- V is the SPIRIT.  And that idea -- that Spirit -- cannot be killed.  That's why V is able to stand alone and vanquish so many of his enemies without suffering any harm to himself, even after being shot dozens of times at point blank range. 

"Why won't you die?!"  -- Mr. Creedy, the government official

"Beneath this mask there is more than flesh.  Beneath this mask there is an idea, Mr. Creedy.   And ideas are bullet-proof."  -- V

LIKEWISE:  Two times in her life, Evie finds herself in a home being raided by police, and BOTH times she is told to HIDE .. and she does, under the bed ... BOTH times.  Why does this same scenario occur twice?  Because again, it's making the point that these characters REPRESENT something.  In the first case, Evie's parents, and in the second, Gordon -- both symbolize the SPIRIT that exists within each of us.  They are the people who are TRUE TO THE SPIRIT -- the ones with love in their hearts for their fellow creatures ... as opposed to the ones who seek only to dominate others.

"Every inch of me shall perish ... every inch but one.  An inch ... it is small, and it is fragile, and it is the only thing in the world worth having.  We must never lose it or give it away; we must never let them take it from us."

  -- Valerie, written before her death in the concentration camp

When the guard tells Evie it is time for her execution, she STILL refuses to give any information about the whereabouts of V.  The guard then acknowledges that she is now free of all fear, and she finds that she is able to walk, unobstructed, out the door of her cell and past another guard in the hall, who stands there as nothing but an inanimate doll.  She is free.    This is illustrative of the same spiritual principle as when Neo, in The Matrix, eventually finds himself able to fight off dozens of Agents at once, and effortlessly knock down their bullets with his hands.

"You found something that mattered to you more than your life."

  -- V, to Evie

"I don't understand ... how you can be one of the most important things that's ever happened to me, and yet I know almost nothing about you."

  -- Evie, to V

What is it that is being talked about here?   V is not a man, V is the SPIRIT -- the "last inch" -- that spark of love and truth within each of us which is SO easy to give up, but which is our only hope for salvation:

John 8:23: And He said to them, "You are from beneath; I AM from above. You are of this world; I am not of this world."

John 8:12: "I AM the light of the world. He who follows Me shall not walk in darkness, but have the light of life."

John 10:9: "I AM the door. If anyone enters by Me, he will be saved, and will go in and out and find pasture."

John 11:25: Jesus said to her, "I AM the resurrection and the life. He who believes in Me, though he may die, he shall live."

John 14:6: Jesus said to him, "I AM the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me."

The bottom line -- the message to be gleaned from all of this -- is that you either stand up for human freedom -- the SPIRITUAL SOVEREIGNTY of EACH AND EVERY HUMAN CREATURE -- and the protection of the individual rights of all people which necessarily follows such recognition -- or you don't.   THAT is the only battle which exists now or has EVER existed for human beings on this planet, period.

"For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places."

Ephesians 6:12

28 (edited by Xenopope 2006-04-02 03:16:10)

Re: V for Vendetta is out

Nice post morningsun. Thanks for pointing those things out.

morningsun76 wrote:

http://www.polachek.net/jeff/images/nr/vendetta_chancellor.jpg

This scene looks disturbingly similar to a Marilyn Manson concert I saw in '95.

*shrugs*

I am as is Void.

Re: V for Vendetta is out

"Every inch of me shall perish ... every inch but one.  An inch ... it is small, and it is fragile, and it is the only thing in the world worth having.  We must never lose it or give it away; we must never let them take it from us."

  -- Valerie, written before her death in the concentration camp

Reminds me of this from The Manchurian Candidate remake:

MARCO

                No -- you could have had me locked up --
                and you didn't. That's a sign.

RAYMOND

                Of what?

MARCO

                That they don't control everything. We
                can fight it. I mean -- I'm still out
                here because you decided I should be --
                which means there's a part they can't get
                to, deep inside -- the part where the
                truth is, and they can't touch us there.
                That's what we need to tap into, Raymond,
                that's the part where, you and me, we're
                gonna take them out.

And this from V, the miniseries:

(In the following scene, a scientist and his family seek shelter with Abraham Bernstein (himself a Holocaust survivor) but is blocked by Abraham's son, Stanley. When Stanley refuses to allow them aid, his father berates him.)

Abraham: We had to put you in a suitcase. In a suitcase! An eight-month old baby. And that's how the underground smuggled you out. But they couldn't help the rest of us...

Stanley: I know this story, Father.

Abraham: No, you don't! Your mother...auv shalom...your mother didn't have a heart attack while we were in the boxcar. No. She made it to the camp with me. I can still see her...standing naked in the freezing cold, ice on the ground...her beautiful black hair was gone. They'd shaved her head. I can see her...waving to me, as they marched her with the others -- all those people -- to the showers. The shower with no water, you understand. And perhaps...if somebody had given US a place to hide...she could still be alive today. They have to stay, you see? Or else we haven't learned a thing....


(The Bernsteins are turned over to the Visitors by their own son, a member of their Youth Group-like Security Force. Stanley and his wife, Lynn, return but Abraham doesn't survive the interrogation. When the Resistance asks for their help, Lynn refuses, but Stanley gives her a letter from Abraham which she reads:)

Lynn:

"My dear family. It's painful knowing I won't share the days ahead with you. I pray that I am the only one who will be taken today. It hurts to know that I'll not see your faces anymore. Already I am missing you...Stanley, my son...Lynn, who is as dear to me as the daughter I never had and Daniel, for whom I worry the most. But I am too old to run away at this time. What I must do is to stay instead, to show that I have faith in what's right. You may think that an old man wouldn't be afraid to die, but this old man is very frightened. I keep hoping that I'll find a little of my wife's dignity and strength, but so far I am as frightened as a child who fears the dark. Yet I am determined. We must fight this darkness that is threatening to engulf us. Each of us must be a ray of hope. We must each do our part and join with all the others, until each ray joins together to become a blinding light, triumphant over the dark. Until that task is accomplished, life here on Earth will have no purpose, no meaning. We cannot live as helpless victims. More than anything, we must always remember which side we're on...and be willing to fight for it. Your mother and I will march beside you....holding hands together. We'll sing your songs of victory----you'll feel us in your hearts. Our spirits will be----"

Stanley: "Our spirits will be with you always"....and our love. Don't you see Lynn? We have to help. Or else we haven't learned a thing.

Acquiring fringe knowledge is like digging for diamonds in a mine field.

30

Re: V for Vendetta is out

kestrel wrote:

Bravo people, way to go... that's how you get sucked into supporting the dark side!  Pay to watch a piece of occultic trash.  Hmmm doesn't sound too positive to me!

Yes i would gladly send my money to the "dark side" if it inspired them to do good, by making another great movie like this one to inspire more people. Thats what this movie did for me it left me feeling good and feeling inspired. 

I dont know why you think the "Dark side" was responsible for making this movie though? what was so bad about this movie? i found it to be a anti "dark side" anti- fascist movie