Re: Mass control

Aaronfirebrand,

It could be because I'm up in the middle of the night but I'm having a hard time understanding your definition of freedom.  I can't wrap my wits around ... freedom ending where another's begins.  Not saying it's wrong, right or anything.  I just don't get it.

Would you mind giving examples?  It sounds like a very interesting concept.  I just don't want to assume "I've got it."

Thanks.

WR,
Christine B.

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Re: Mass control

Hi Christine. It means that you are free to do anything you like if it does not negatively impact your fellow humans, and they are likewise free to pursue their happiness unless that pursuit reduces your enjoyment of life. The golden rule in practice, not merely an aphorism. Maybe it would be easier to think in terms of apartment neighbors. For the spaces to work for both neighbors, neither can suffer annoyance beyond acceptable levels. A mutual respect for each other forms the border between the neighbors' respective freedoms. The idea of "personal space" taken into the social. I hope I haven't muddled this completely.

Re: Mass control

AFB,

Thank you for the explanation.  You didn't muddle it at all.

My "difficulty" with this perspective, which is a libertarian type thinking (isn't it), is ... it's flawed to my way of thinking.

Why?  Because it's very subjective as to what is negative and what impacts me.  Does a neighbor smoking pot negatively impact me even though he doesn't try to impose his beliefs on me and he is a good guy ... etc?  I think so.

Does another friend of mine who had stopped drinking in excess and now is back drinking, negatively impact me - even though she doesn't "do" anything to me - negatively impact me?  I think so.

Which means we now get into the discussion about pot smoking pro/cons - drinking pro/cons - over to, how to eat pro/cons - cigarette smoking pro/cons - judgment pro/cons ad infinitum.

So, because I believe (as I think you do too) that we are all interrelated and interconnected, then I think it's actually impossible to NOT impact our fellow man by our actions ... the idea is to try to minimize the negative impact by not being "horrible" and ideally eliminate it altogether.

Anger, strife, upsets, judgmental actions all impact our fellow man by virtue of the ripple effect.  Those closest to us "suffer" most ... those further out from the ripple less so.

My neighbor, the pot head, for example doesn't effect me all that much.  But, he surely does his own family and kids ...

Perhaps we are saying the same thing ... just differently. 

That 'ole Washington heat can definately be a real mood swinger. Glad to see you've "cooled" off smile But, those hot days, to me, were not as bad as those endless grey winter skies ... 

WR,
Christine B.

Re: Mass control

It would be a good idea to listen more to people like aaronfirebrand, he understands how things work in your country, its really simple, follow the money! a good example of this is on a great website www.exxonsecrets.org where it shows the money trail of PR front groups calling themselves independant pressure groups set up by the oil industry to lobby congress against environmental issues. The website is layed out as a route map of how the money travels around who benifits from it. It is a great example of how modern democracy works. The emotional rhetoric of speeches which is called the campaigning hides the darker side of interests of your country. I bet you don't hear a lot about the 72 military interventions since WW2.
A vote for Reagan was a vote over throw democratically elected governments in south america and introduce controllable client dictatorships, also he sold a lot of chemical weapons to saddam. A vote of bush senior was to persuade the kuwait to increase its oil production to start a war with iraq, giving a premise for the first Iraq invasion and the start of sanctions that killed well over half a million children from 91-02. A vote for clinton was a reinforcement of this infanticide which Madeleine Albright, when asked if the deaths of deaths of half a million children were a price worth paying for sanctions she said 'We think the price is worth it'. Also a vote for clinton was a vote for the genocide in rowanda; 'after the killings began in early april 1994, the un security council controled by america and britain reduced troop presence from 2,500-270', by the end of april with thousands dead, us/uk secured a security council resloution that rejected the use of the term 'genocide' when referring to rowanda. A vote for Bush was a vote for terror, you kill 15,000 civilians in Afghanistan and iraq and you recruit five times as many terrorists. A vote for kerry is probably a vote for more of the same.
You may guess that I'm not american, but i'm not anti american, as a society you are probably the most loving, giving, open minded, foward thinking nations on the planet. The people in washington need to go and it can only happen if you do somthing about it. Ignorance is not bliss, Ignorance will bite you in the ass and heap bad kama on you. Every little thing you can do helps; going back to the apartment block analogy, unite your apartment block together, have a meeting to clean up the building has an effect. Like aaron says 'don't vote it only encourages them' is true, change has to come from you, it has to happen locally to have a global effect, you can call it anarchy or you can call it having respect for yourself and those around you. Anything that strikes a cord with you, do somthing, any little thing you do will have an effect, otherwise it will chew you up and create a negative energy block inside your auric field. This is how connected we are to everything.....

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Re: Mass control

aaronfirebrand wrote:

It means that you are free to do anything you like if it does not negatively impact your fellow humans, and they are likewise free to pursue their happiness unless that pursuit reduces your enjoyment of life.

Hugh Hefner calls it the 'playboy philosophy'.

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Re: Mass control

Hefner was selling nudie mags and he needed a way to add some class, so he he called hedonism a philosophy (which I suppose it is). The freedom idea, in my concept, would result in individual awareness that the only way to improve society is to introduce an improved unit into it. I can only change myself, not others. My actions can show someone a way, but my words cannot. This is why I believe freedom is an action, not a litany. Anybody can say anything. but it doesn't mean a thing. Manifold laws may try to establish what freedom is, but generally confuse the issue (purposely). My definition, once clear to people, is a very easy thing to remember. It's really saying "yes, I have a right to go after what I want (it's important to me), but the other person has the same right, so we stay out of each other's way or we take turns." The only politics necessary are politeness and regard for each other (mostly obsolete now, this used to be the social lubricant but apparently has been replaced by alcohol).

22 (edited by rlha11 2004-06-25 13:54:35)

Re: Mass control

Mass control as each individual being a catalyst for improvement of our nation. All is not lost until the majority of the collective conscious of our nation decides it is. 

Kucinich is a platform for change, thats what a liberal does. Im sure Kuc. knows he will not win this year just like he didnt win his first election as mayor of clevelend. He is using his platform as a method of introducing this concept into the masses.  A voice from a high place like a presidential candidate has a larger influence, I hope, than when a Jackson exposes her nipple to sell records. So whats he selling that we dont already have : our ability to change, to take on responsibilty for ourselves instead of putting it the hands of a few who then decide what is the best for all of us. That is being controlled. 
  Basically the message is that if you want your country to change for the better, when a skeptic tells you no your dreaming, and you believe them, thats precisely why the country wont change.  To change our direction for the better, this all starts with each individual. There lies the control of the masses

Re: Mass control

Christine B. wrote  "...actions all impact our fellow man by virtue of the ripple effect. "

exactly.  smile

Re: Mass control

Maybe it spreads a message, but it perpetuates the myth of the external saviour so dear to this world... The problem now, as I see it, is *NOT* that people are oblivious that something is going wrong (ask anyone in the street), the problem is that they are unaware of the power they have to change things.

25 (edited by rlha11 2004-06-25 14:36:19)

Re: Mass control

where the external saviour myth in that?  He is telling the obvious, dont put him on that high.

Thats why he is using the platform to tell people that they have the power to change.

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Re: Mass control

rlha11 wrote:

Thats why he is using the platform to tell people that they have the power to change.

To change, one must first become aware that there are multiple 'artificial' I's programmed to suffocate the real "I". Once a person begins to debug himself/herself/itself, then change slowly becomes possible.

Sadly I think many people just believe people have the power-of-change without realizing that debugging is a far more important process. You must first be free.

Re: Mass control

Good, then how are people bugged?

Re: Mass control

what is artificial I?

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Re: Mass control

rlha, you can edit your posts to bunch thoughts together.

When you are born, you awake to 3D first in theta-state. As you grow older, you become accustomed to alpha-state. As you mature, you then focus your conscious to beta-state. By breathing regulation, you can experience these states by slowing down the brain hertz per second of your brain.

In theta-state your mind is heavily open to soaking-in all externalities (hypnosis). Imagine a little robot walking around your room, absorbing all the information surrounding it. The walls, the paintings, the people, the dogs, etc. In every subconscious, there is a database that stores all knowledge, all references.

If a child is struck by the parent when throwing a rock towards the road, he/she notes this. This is an example of a simple program of 'cause' + 'effect' being soaked in to a child.

The 'real I' is what I consider the fragmented essence, the soul free from programming. The artificial I's are hard-wired programming that makes you act unaccordingly to the 'real I'.

30 (edited by rlha11 2004-06-25 15:40:32)

Re: Mass control

yea I already know I can edit and bunch and stuff like that.

Yea I understand that as imprinting and what not, so basically then your saying that there are inprints people have that they dont realize. Deep rooted in their subjective experience.

How does one deprogram. You cant deprogram the belief of gravity without floating away into space. You can however change your belief in something such as god or not god. There are beleifs or imprints that you can never change but their are some you can.

Maybe with the generations thing and all, if certain actions are taken now, our kids generations will benefit.  You are right, we are a product of our enviroment, the beliefs of our parents.  But there is a r3cognition of our beliefs in our actions,  and in our actions we realize what we believe. And we do not necessarily want to agree with it, so we can offer ourselves the chance not to believe it, to neutralize it., to let it not be a part of what it is we would like to focus on.

Look to your actions, when you feel a certain way, those are your beliefs talking.

Would this understanding be comparitive to  the alpha state, balckbox, where we begin to realize just exactly what was imprinted, and how it effects us? just a guess

But then is it possible to be totally free of all programming?, there are things you can change, but in a sense isnt that change/ that mode just becomming a new form of programming.?